DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Justrose]

Yep! Even with DAS last time some of the LL were too long for us (outside the queue) so we had to skip or try again another time. People may need to adjust their touring to help meet their needs (rope drop, late nights, less busy time, buy LLMP or LLSP, etc.).

Yep - same here. We definitely rearranged plans for long LL. We still rope drop every day, too which helps with the rides with longer lines later in the day.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

My opinion. I see splitting families to be able to keep some DAS program for the developmentally disabled as a very small compromise in the big picture.

I also see the direction of that other DAS forum on Facebook as being high risk or even dangerous in its potential consequences for all of us.

 

[lanejudy]

The parks are ADA compliant without DAS. It is a gift, not a requirement.

As has been mentioned a few times... while the parks are "ADA compliant" by design and physical features (which is largely wheelchair or mobility device accessibility), Disney still has a responsibility to offer accommodations for those with disabilities that aren't met by those physical features. DAS as an accommodation program/service is not specifically required, but some type of accommodation must be available. The viewpoint that "DAS is not required" is inaccurate if not replaced by something else.

 

[KrzyKtty101]

Ultimately I would not be surprised if this was challenged in court. Only time will really tell if Disney is legally compliant or not.

 

[wdw4rfam]

DS started to use the GAC starting about 20+ years ago. We could always send one person to get a return time. Once you had the card you were approved for X number of guests and they took no names. All that existed was the card so whoever was holding the card got the time. They would just write down a return time and you came back with no more than the X number of guests. From the time he has been approved he never had to go get a return time, we could always have someone else get it. Many times we were all together and he was there as we tried to keep our travel in the parks down, but he didn't have to be. They have always made getting return times as accessible as they could with the current technology.

I was just going to type this. We have had GAC and DAS since 2006, when my son was diagnosed and really started having problems. He has never needed to be with us to request a return. Just when we obtained the pass initially and when we returned to the ride.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

I am editing my long post above for grammar and spelling. I see the autocorrect gremlins were active! I also tried to type it on an iPad which gives me odd spellings. Sorry. Will do it now. Also added a couple of context thoughts.

 

[SueM in MN]

I tried to explain to someone that Disney wasn’t saying they didn’t have a disability, but that DAS was for specific needs now and other accommodations are for other needs. I also had a differing opinion on medical documentation as proof (thought it wasn’t a good idea and wouldn’t help the overuse of DAS). The person got offended, called me an ableist, and reported me.

Same experience on the Facebook page that has now banned DAS discussion entirely. I posted the same types of things in replies before the ban and got jumped on the same way. Even posting a link to the Disney website information, which was allowed, was met with abuse by the DAS Defender crowd.
That Facebook page closed for a whole month after the DAS changes were announced so the moderators could delete some of the nastier things and regroup. When they re-opened with a new focus, they did allow DAS discussions for a few days, but it quickly got nasty. They then banned the subject (and posters) entirely because that group of posters just couldn't discuss

Honestly I think Disney should have changed the name from DAS to something else. That may have helped and maybe not have “disability” in the name at all. Then maybe people wouldn’t think it is for everyone with a disability.

I don't know why they chose not to rename DAS, but I think it was because DAS was/is well known and they considered it as just changes to the basic program.

I do know that they had carefully considered the name when DAS (Disability Access Service) was introduced in 2013.
Previous programs for guests with disabilities were called Special Assistance Pass/Card and Guest Assistance Card. People rationalized online that since it didn't say disabilities, they could get it even though they didn't have any disability. A lot of posts said things like, "I need assistance, I've got small children" etc, etc, etc.
When Disney changed from those to DAS, they wanted a new name that made it clear it was meant for people with disabilities. The word 'disability' had some pushback when it was announced - some people said, "I don't want to be labeled as disabled". Ironically, it was some of the same people who are now complaining Disney is "not recognizing my disability".
It's not Disney's fault that some people don't understand that not every condition/disability requires accommodations/the same level of accommodations.

Wow! That puts wayyyy to much pressure and responsibility on the ride cm's to decide who they think deserves it.

There are something 10 places in Disneyland that say they will give RT, so having a quota there makes no sense. Barely any are handed out at CA, so auditing make no sense because they are really not warranted. "That" Facebook page has noticed and commented that RT are far are very very rare in CA. and only given with a mobility device in DL.

Maybe it is more of WDW than a DL thing? Did this report come out before DL rollout?

Disney World had a handful of attractions that gave out Return Times - basically the few that have a separate accessible entry because they were not able to be mainstreamed for wheelchair access.
The person using a mobility device had/has to be present to get a Return Time and they are not given out when the attraction isn't busy.

 

[wdw4rfam]

My opinion. I see splitting families to be able to keep some DAS program for the developmentally disabled as a very small compromise in the big picture.

u also see the direction of that other DAS forum on Facebook as being high risk or even dangerous in its potential consequences for all of us.

Agree with this As a family who has had DAS or GAC for almost 20 years. My son was just approved under the new rules. He’s 22 now. We always go with my parents, or sister and her kids, or someone other than the 4 of us. We have had parties of 6-8 and was never told no. Was it great, absolutely. Am I going to be sad that we can’t all ride together anymore, of course. But I also understand if Disney takes every person who qualifies for DAS and lets them take 6+ people with them, the return lines are way too long and doesn’t help anyone. So while I’m sad we have to split up and do things differently, my son is still being accommodated and gets to enjoy Disney with us. We are still together at the resort, on transportation, walking around the parks and at meals. So those saying it’s no longer a family vacation I will never understand.

 

[Justrose]

Agree with this As a family who has had DAS or GAC for almost 20 years. My son was just approved under the new rules. He’s 22 now. We always go with my parents, or sister and her kids, or someone other than the 4 of us. We have had parties of 6-8 and was never told no. Was it great, absolutely. Am I going to be sad that we can’t all ride together anymore, of course. But I also understand if Disney takes every person who qualifies for DAS and lets them take 6+ people with them, the return lines are way too long and doesn’t help anyone. So while I’m sad we have to split up and do things differently, my son is still being accommodated and gets to enjoy Disney with us. We are still together at the resort, on transportation, walking around the parks and at meals. So those saying it’s no longer a family vacation I will never understand.

Exactly this. Last trip with DAS, at Epcot we were continually behind a family with 12+ people using DAS for one person. When we travel with my daughter, son-in-law and my Grands, we will have to split and though it will be tricky to maneuver, we will gladly do it.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

The viewpoint that "DAS is not required" is inaccurate if not replaced by something else.

My post was getting way too long as it was, but I did think of this issue. AQR may or may not be adequate. We don't know yet. I do find it interesting that Disney CMs keep repeating that DAS is meant for people who do not understand what a line is. But, I also see them approving DAS for people who advocate for themselves and clearly do know what a line is. So, that is an issue in the still unanswered territory, in my book. I will try to be more precise in my language. However, trying to achieve that with all the variances and permutations does lengthen a post considerably. No intent to mislead or be mistaken.

 

[Bearval]

As has been mentioned a few times... while the parks are "ADA compliant" by design and physical features (which is largely wheelchair or mobility device accessibility), Disney still has a responsibility to offer accommodations for those with disabilities that aren't met by those physical features. DAS as an accommodation program/service is not specifically required, but some type of accommodation must be available. The viewpoint that "DAS is not required" is inaccurate if not replaced by something else.

I don't believe there is a ADA requirement other than for the park to be architecturally compliant. Some parks have designated "quiet " places and some provide some type of line pass but it is not a requirement.

 

[mistysue]

I know i'm late here , but I am just catching up. Many families don't get to wait in line together, That's the whole reason rider swap was birthed in the first place. Have two children five years apart and you may be spending most of the day waiting in separate lines. That's just part of a normal experience for many families at the parks.

OMG- even better, have kids years a few years apart and the youngest is randomly short stature. Like can't get onto Barnstormer until he's nearly 4 sort of short (at 3 he was told "maybe when you're two" and gave that CM a harsh scolding) I think he was 11 the first time he actually had the choice to go on everything in the regular parks... so that's 3 kids stretching to 19 years of rider swaps and at 13 we're not sure he'll ever get all the rides at the water parks.

 

[DiznyDiva]

Bottom line it is still about choice. And want vs. need.

NO one NEEDS to go to Disney. Choice.
No one NEEDS DAS. There are other accommodations. They may not be what the WANT but they are still offered making Disney ADA complaint. Choice.

Spending the day in line at the parks... everyone who goes has to figure out the best way. Disney IS about lines and compromises. Most lines except for a few times a day, even LL are at least 15 minutes and they stop and rides go down. There is never any explanations of those who say they absolutly can't stand in lines explanations on how they deal with those issues.

Saying DAS allows families to be together and to not have their symptoms flair is not being entirely truthful. Families split up all the time at the park, Symptoms are not only going be in a line, especially if they are as egregious as being thrown around on the web.

I doubt Disney will get rid of DAs now that they know what they want, but I could see them tightening it up even further,

 

[mistysue]

But you’re only talking about larger rides and not rides where the whole family can do together, where as the family with a disabled family member would also have to split up for dumbo, pirates, it’s a small world, Pooh… where there’s no height requirements and families can all ride together and don’t need rider switch.

Even in a world where the disabled person has trouble with lines, but can handle LL lines, it's going to be unusual that they absolutely have to split up for ALL of the little rides too. Sorry, but that is not happening, or at least only happening in extremely rare cases. There are times when the standby lines for many (possibly most) attractions are within the limits of what a typical LL line would be. It's not right to talk about taking someone in the busiest possibly days of the year, mid-day, then act like they need DAS because it's ONLY the regular lines causing a problem.

 

[jennab]

I don't know why they chose not to rename DAS, but I think it was because DAS was/is well known and they considered it as just changes to the basic program.

I do know that they had carefully considered the name when DAS (Disability Access Service) was introduced in 2013.
Previous programs for guests with disabilities were called Special Assistance Pass/Card and Guest Assistance Card. People rationalized online that since it didn't say disabilities, they could get it even though they didn't have any disability. A lot of posts said things like, "I need assistance, I've got small children" etc, etc, etc.
When Disney changed from those to DAS, they wanted a new name that made it clear it was meant for people with disabilities. The word 'disability' had some pushback when it was announced - some people said, "I don't want to be labeled as disabled". Ironically, it was some of the same people who are now complaining Disney is "not recognizing my disability".
It's not Disney's fault that some people don't understand that not every condition/disability requires accommodations/the same level of accommoda

Interesting I did not know this history! Yeah odd they didn’t change the DAS name when they don’t seem to mind changing FP, G+, LLMP

 

[jennab]

I do find it interesting that Disney CMs keep repeating that DAS is meant for people who do not understand what a line is. But, I also see them approving DAS for people who advocate for themselves and clearly do know what a line is.

I find this terminology interesting as well. My son knows what a line is and understands waiting, but it’s like he has no concept of time…. It will say 45min and he will be like yeah, I can do that! Then 5-10min in it’s like, ok it’s been 45 min right? Then things just start snowballing and it becomes bad pretty quick. So I wonder if they mean more like “can’t fully understand queuing concepts”? Might just be how they are wording it.

 

[lanejudy]

I don't believe there is a ADA requirement other than for the park to be architecturally compliant.

That is absolutely incorrect...

The ADA also has specific requirements for businesses that are open to the public.​

​

For example, as a business, you must:​

• Communicate with people with disabilities as effectively as you communicate with others.
• Make reasonable modifications to policies, practices, and procedures where needed.
• To make sure that a person with a disability can access the businesses’ goods or services.
• Allow service animals to be with their person even if you have a no pets policy.
• Follow specific standards for physical accessibility when building or altering a building or facility.
• Follow specific requirements for ticket sales and testing accommodations.
• Remove architectural barriers in buildings when it is readily achievable to do so.

 

[DiznyDiva]

I find this terminology interesting as well. My son knows what a line is and understands waiting, but it’s like he has no concept of time…. It will say 45min and he will be like yeah, I can do that! Then 5-10min in it’s like, ok it’s been 45 min right? Then things just start snowballing and it becomes bad pretty quick. So I wonder if they mean more like “can’t fully understand queuing concepts”? Might just be how they are wording it.

YES.

It's the concept of time not the understanding of a line. That misunderstanding is completely on Disney.

I would still not put it past them to rename it. Maybe when they announce their changes to Disneyland Genie or when they raise the Keys again? Has there ever been year they didn't raise prices?

 

[Angel Ariel]

That is absolutely incorrect...

The ADA also has specific requirements for businesses that are open to the public.​

​

For example, as a business, you must:​

• Communicate with people with disabilities as effectively as you communicate with others.
• Make reasonable modifications to policies, practices, and procedures where needed.
• To make sure that a person with a disability can access the businesses’ goods or services.
• Allow service animals to be with their person even if you have a no pets policy.
• Follow specific standards for physical accessibility when building or altering a building or facility.
• Follow specific requirements for ticket sales and testing accommodations.
• Remove architectural barriers in buildings when it is readily achievable to do so.

Thank you.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

On the page you mentioned, you quoted specific requirements. The top part says: (I bolded part of it.) I am not an ADA expert by any means, but this is curious. Anyway, to get to the answer, one would have to delve into the statutory language and cases. However, if this is the requirement, then it could support AQR possibly being adequate for ADA compliance for a lot of non-DAS disabilities. I don't know. I just observed this additional language.

Title III Applies to Businesses​

Businesses, including nonprofits, that serve the public (also called public accommodations) include, for example:

• Restaurants
• Hotels/motels
• Shops
• Movie theaters
• Private schools (including housing)
• Doctors’ offices and private hospitals
• Day care centers
• Gyms
• Organizations offering courses or examinations related to:
  • Applications, licensing, certification or credentialing for professional or trade purposes
• Privately operated transit
• Examples of privately-operated transit include:
  • Intercity and charter buses
  • Hotel shuttles
  • Airport shuttles
• Commercial facilities (need only comply with requirements of the ADA Standards for Accessible Design.Examples of commercial facilities include:
  • Office buildings
  • Warehouses
  • Factories