DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[lanejudy]

I thought that there were legal reasons why re-rides were permitted under DAS (because SB guests can re-ride if they choose to).

Still not working…

Quite possible, though I still believe if Disney felt DAS re-rides were having a significant impact on operations they would find a way to address it. It simply is not a large enough concern for them to do anything about it. I suspect the number of guests "looping" or re-riding is relatively small even with DAS. It was a larger problem with GAC.

 

[jennab]

I've seen this mentioned a few times here. Based solely on the people on the DIS who have been approved, it's clear this isn't the only people they're approving.

I think that is what disney wanted to use it for, but I also think people have already figured out how to get approved even though they don’t fall into that category…. I’m guessing we will see more people getting approved as it goes on and eventually may end up back in a similar situation. Will be interesting to see what happens in the next 6mo to a year.

 

[Evita_W]

No elephant to address. Disney apparently does not think re-rides (via DAS) are any kind of problem. If they had any such concern I'm sure it would have been addressed within the current changes. It seems obvious to me that Disney feels re-rides are not a significant issue, especially once they reduce the number of DAS-holders. I'm sure they have data to back that up as well.

I was responding to a comment about the LightningLane/Genie+ changes, and pointing out that it would be nice to have rerides allowed with that tool, then it could potentially take more burden off the DAS. Sorry if my previous post wasn’t clear, I wasn’t suggesting the rereids should be removed from DAS, quite the opposite, that they should be added to Lighting Lane.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I was responding to a comment about the LightningLane/Genie+ changes, and pointing out that it would be nice to have rerides allowed with that tool, then it could potentially take more burden off the DAS. Sorry if my previous post wasn’t clear, I wasn’t suggesting the rereids should be removed from DAS, quite the opposite, that they should be added to Lighting Lane.

Now that prebooking lightning lane has returned, the likelihood of lightning lane multi pass ever seeing re-rides is about 0.

 

[OurBigTrip]

you have to go over your needs and reasons again. Then explain why the accommodation didn't work for you. At that point you've already done this once before within the last 30 days, and previously every 60. Now it'll be every 120. And after you have gone through this, they have used your answers to form their own opinion of whether or not they have done their best to accommodate you. The result is based on someone determining your disability derived needs from a corporations point of view. That whole process is tiring, segregative, discriminatory, and a violation of civil rights.

this has been the process for DAS (and before that, GAC) for years, and yet no one, not even the most sue-happy have prevailed (or as far as I know, even sued) over this.

 

[sbelyo]

Now that prebooking lightning lane has returned, the likelihood of lightning lane multi pass ever seeing re-rides is about 0.

good point

 

[sbelyo]

this has been the process for DAS (and before that, GAC) for years, and yet no one, not even the most sue-happy have prevailed (or as far as I know, even sued) over this.

The process for GAC for me was the following:
1. Walk in to town hall.
2. See a cast member
3. Ask for a GAC
4. Leave with GAC

The process for the first version of DAS was the following:
1. Walk in to town hall.
2. See a cast member
3. Ask for a DAS
4. Leave with DAS

The process for the revised DAS when Genie+ was released was the following:
1. Walk in to town hall.
2. See a cast member
3. Ask for a DAS
4. Provide reasons why I need an accommodation
5. Leave with DAS

I never had to provide any details until abuse became rampant. I also don't mind discussing said details. I just have a problem with the frequency, and the manner in which those details are now used to decide accommodations based on a subjective opinion.

 

[starlite_]

You already said that once, and I pointed out that there is a Youtube video discussing how the screen readers don’t work with how Disney has the chat setup.

Well, it's obviously the same comment that got posted twice for some reason xD Sorry if disboards IT failures offended you somehow. Haven't finished reading all the comments so I don't know if you posted the link to the video but if you did I'll watch it and comment on that. If not then it's hearsay.

 

[Evita_W]

Now that prebooking lightning lane has returned, the likelihood of lightning lane multi pass ever seeing re-rides is about 0.

For the popular attractions you may be correct, but for smaller attractions, like Figment for example it could happen. Personally, I hate the prebooking and wish they would make it where you get your first Lightning Lane time AFTER you scan in and you don’t get to pick times, it is just the next time window for that attraction.

 

[SueM in MN]

The process for GAC for me was the following:
1. Walk in to town hall.
2. See a cast member
3. Ask for a GAC
4. Leave with GAC...

My family's experience with GAC was:
1) Go into Guest Relations (we often used EPCOT)
2) See a Cast Member
3) Ask for a GAC
4) Be asked why the guest needed GAC. If the CM knew we had used GAC before, were occasionally asked if anything had changed since last time or asked for clarification
5) after answering questions, leave with GAC

The process for the first version of DAS was the following:
1. Walk in to town hall.
2. See a cast member
3. Ask for a DAS
4. Leave with DAS...

The process for the first version of DAS for my family member was the following:
1) Go into Guest Relations at a park
2) See a Cast Member
3) Say we needed to register for DAS
4) Be asked "What are your concerns with waiting in the regular lines?"
5) After answering questions, leave with DAS

The process for the revised DAS when Genie+ was released was the following:
1. Walk in to town hall.
2. See a cast member
3. Ask for a DAS
4. Provide reasons why I need an accommodation
5. Leave with DAS

I never had to provide any details until abuse became rampant. I also don't mind discussing said details. I just have a problem with the frequency, and the manner in which those details are now used to decide accommodations based on a subjective opinion.

My family's experience with DAS after Genie+
1) Go to Guest Relations at a park or on video chat after 2021
2) See a Cast Member
3) Say we needed to register for DAS
4) Be asked, "what are your concerns with waiting in the regular lines?" The CM was able to see our family member had used DAS before and sometimes asked if anything had changed since the last time or asked other questions for clarification
5) After answering questions, DAS was granted

Just because you were not asked questions doesn't mean other people were not. CMs were supposed to be asking the questions of everyone, but some didn't (probably because being Guest Relations, a big part of their job was to make guests happy. I think that is a big reason why Disney removed DAS from Guest Relations and put it in a new department).
The ADA allows asking what accommodations people need related to their disability. That is what they are doing

 

[rastuso]

What they haven’t addressed is the elephant in the room: The ability to use it to re-ride attractions, I mean due to my needs, there are certain attractions I can’t go on (same for DH). Even if they still wanted to make a limit, say there are 20 Lightning Lane eligible attractions in a park, then limit it to a max of 20 uses in the park for the day, not that you could probably get that many anyway, but you get the idea. Of course there would need to be something in place so that you can’t say take a slot from an unpopular attraction and use it on the most popular attraction in the park.

The fact you think a max of 20 uses a day seems reasonable is WILD!. ANd a perfect example of how DAS use has gone off the rails, even by those who do perhaps have special needs, and need some small assistance to get "equal" with others.

 

[lanejudy]

decide accommodations based on a subjective opinion

It’s not subjective. The criteria are fairly well-defined for the CM. They are looking for specific needs. Two people with the same diagnosis may not have the same needs. If a guest doesn’t mention at least one specific criterion then alternative accommodations are suggested.

 

[jods]

For the popular attractions you may be correct, but for smaller attractions, like Figment for example it could happen. Personally, I hate the prebooking and wish they would make it where you get your first Lightning Lane time AFTER you scan in and you don’t get to pick times, it is just the next time window for that attraction.

I hated the paper fastpasses for this reason. My kids like to sleep (and for a while needed extra sleep for medical reasons) and I don't do well in heat. I'm not uncomfortable, I get heat exhaustion. I liked being able to stack or with fastpass plus pick late times. When MK was open late we would go for 6 or 7 and stay late. At that time, everything would be gone.

 

[SueM in MN]

Repeating some information for new posters/readers to this about IBCCES. It's been discussed multiple times.
Providing proof of disability doesn't really get rid of fakers like people think it will.
In the first place, ADA provides for accommodation based on needs related to disability, not diagnosis.

IBCCES, the company used by Universal is NOT a third party medical group.

• It's a marketing group that started out providing certification for ABA (Applied Behavioral Analysis for Autism) providers and branched out to Autism certification for employees of multiple types of public facilities and businesses.
• Got into Autism Certification of facilities/theme parks, etc.
• that led to registration of people with autism to receive some of the services at the facilities they certified,
• which led into their current registration program for people with multiple disabilities

Just requiring documentation doesn't mean less abuse. Honest people will give honest proof and ask for the amount of access they need.
Dishonest people will come up with ways to fake documentation or will lie or exaggerate their access needs.
There are 'rent-a-doctors' who will pretty write whatever someone wants for a price and there are people who will make their own fake documents.

The system used by Universal for documentation doesn't appear to be very robust. Many of the things they accept as proof of disability don't say anything about needs in a theme park queu, including:

• an IEP page that lists the diagnosis
• a copy of handicapped parking permit
• a copy of National Park Access Pass
• doctor letter, but it doesn't have to say anything other than, "My patient, John Doe, is disabled". People have reported getting approved with only that.
• People have also reported getting accepted by IBCCES with:
  • an authorization that allows them to keep food with them at work
  • an authorization that allowed them to have extra time for tests in college

Requested accommodations are checked off by the person applying, not verified by the document that shows disability.

The document verification process also does not appear very robust.
I've read a lot of reports from people who got temporary approval within an hour or less of submission and final approval soon after.

There is at least one lawsuit related to 6 Flags and being required to register and get a card. I've also read acounts from people who felt they were discriminated against by being told they would have to register and get an access card:

• a blind person in order to use her white cane at Universal
• Several people in order to use a Seeing Eye dog or Service Dog at Universal
• a deaf man told he'd need to register to request ASL (American Sign Language) interpretatioN

There are a lot of people who say anyone who is 'really disabled' would provide documentation, so those who don't must be faking. Many of us COULD provide documentation, but don't want to share with a marketing company with no medical background.

 

[Evita_W]

Repeating some information for new posters/readers to this about IBCCES. It's been discussed multiple times.
Providing proof of disability doesn't really get rid of fakers like people think it will.
In the first place, ADA provides for accommodation based on needs related to disability, not diagnosis.

IBCCES, the company used by Universal is NOT a third party medical group.

• It's a marketing group that started out providing certification for ABA (Applied Behavioral Analysis for Autism) providers and branched out to Autism certification for employees of multiple types of public facilities and businesses.
• Got into Autism Certification of facilities/theme parks, etc.
• that led to registration of people with autism to receive some of the services at the facilities they certified,
• which led into their current registration program for people with multiple disabilities

Just requiring documentation doesn't mean less abuse. Honest people will give honest proof and ask for the amount of access they need.
Dishonest people will come up with ways to fake documentation or will lie or exaggerate their access needs.
There are 'rent-a-doctors' who will pretty write whatever someone wants for a price and there are people who will make their own fake documents.

The system used by Universal for documentation doesn't appear to be very robust. Many of the things they accept as proof of disability don't say anything about needs in a theme park queu, including:

• an IEP page that lists the diagnosis
• a copy of handicapped parking permit
• a copy of National Park Access Pass
• doctor letter, but it doesn't have to say anything other than, "My patient, John Doe, is disabled". People have reported getting approved with only that.
• People have also reported getting accepted by IBCCES with:
  • an authorization that allows them to keep food with them at work
  • an authorization that allowed them to have extra time for tests in college

Requested accommodations are checked off by the person applying, not verified by the document that shows disability.

The document verification process also does not appear very robust.
I've read a lot of reports from people who got temporary approval within an hour or less of submission and final approval soon after.

There is at least one lawsuit related to 6 Flags and being required to register and get a card. I've also read acounts from people who felt they were discriminated against by being told they would have to register and get an access card:

• a blind person in order to use her white cane at Universal
• Several people in order to use a Seeing Eye dog or Service Dog at Universal
• a deaf man told he'd need to register to request ASL (American Sign Language) interpretatioN

There are a lot of people who say anyone who is 'really disabled' would provide documentation, so those who don't must be faking. Many of us COULD provide documentation, but don't want to share with a marketing company with no medical background.

There is actually a third category besides honest and dishonest people and that is honest people who can’t get documentation from their medical provider despite having a legitimate issue. Many medical providers will not provide documentation for this type of stuff for various reasons, when this occurs, the honest people end up turning to the dishonest methods, which usually results in more accommodations than they need.

If you have a physical device or equipment (white cane, service animal, mobility device and such), under ADA they cannot require you to register to use such items, if Universal is indeed requiring this, then they are indeed breaking the law.

And I agree with the reasons for not providing documentation, I think in the end it will hurt Universal big time.

The rest of my post is purely speculation, so I am going to put a spoiler tag on it so it hopefully makes it clear that this is my speculation only based upon educated guesses from personal knowledge in regards to Six Flags/Cedar Fair, if you are interested in my thoughts on the Six Flags lawsuit, check it out below:

Spoiler

As for the Six Flags lawsuit, I am fairly confident that once the Cedar Fair merger is complete that the lawsuit will get settled out of court quickly, as Cedar Fair management will be in charge and I have had occasion to speak with them about their system (which has it’s own problems) and asked if they were going to go to the Six Flags style system (before the merger was even thought about), they said no, because they felt it was discriminatory. So, for the lawsuit, I think the settlement will look something like this:

• Under NDA
  • Monetary Value, probably around $100,000 plus court/lawyer fees
  • Admission in the form of free lifetime passes, perhaps to all applicable parks
• Not under NDA
  • Modifications to the accessibility program at all parks, that were formerly Six Flags and Cedar Fair
    • Likely modifications:
      • No need to preregister or provide documentation
      • If your only need is mobility, no more need to go to guest services, instead you will present your ticket to be scanned for a return time where the queues are not wheelchair accessible
      • Boarding Pass (or whatever they call it) assigned to a persons ticket
      • Rest of party will be assigned
      • Pass will be scanned for all members of the party at each attraction and pictures checked
    • Possible modifications:
      • Queues reworked to be wheelchair accessible where feasible
      • Extending the number of days that the boarding pass is valid if documentation is provided
    • Unlikely, but still possible modifications:
      • Discounted admission if documentation is provided.

 

[SueM in MN]

There is actually a third category besides honest and dishonest people and that is honest people who can’t get documentation from their medical provider despite having a legitimate issue. Many medical providers will not provide documentation for this type of stuff for various reasons, when this occurs, the honest people end up turning to the dishonest methods, which usually results in more accommodations than they need.

If you have a physical device or equipment (white cane, service animal, mobility device and such), under ADA they cannot require you to register to use such items, if Universal is indeed requiring this, then they are indeed breaking the law.

And I agree with the reasons for not providing documentation, I think in the end it will hurt Universal big time.

Those bolted items were mentioned in previous posts and I missed mentioning them when I wrote this last night.
The physical devices/equipment I mentioned are specifically protected under the ADA. The reports I saw were soon after Universal started using the company. I don't know if they continued down that road or not, but whether it happened once or hundreds of times, it was/is wrong.

Another thing with the IBCCES Access Card is that once it is approved, it stays in effect forever as long as the person goes in once a year and verifies the information. So, any less than truthful people get a permanent pass.

I agree with your spoiler.

 

[Norandran]

Anyone waiting a long time and getting weird queue responses. I have been on since 8am and was getting the “yes” prompt every 30 minutes but it has now stopped for the last 90 minutes or so. Every once in a while it would just say error and I would have to close my browser and go back into the queue, (I could see all my old chats). Should it take this long?

 

[nalababybear]

Those bolted items were mentioned in previous posts and I missed mentioning them when I wrote this last night.
The physical devices/equipment I mentioned are specifically protected under the ADA. The reports I saw were soon after Universal started using the company. I don't know if they continued down that road or not, but whether it happened once or hundreds of times, it was/is wrong.

Another thing with the IBCCES Access Card is that once it is approved, it stays in effect forever as long as the person goes in once a year and verifies the information. So, any less than truthful people get a permanent pass.

I agree with your spoiler.

I see no benefit of the IBCCES as far as accessibility and doing anything but window dressing for companies from the ADA compliance standpoint and just another barrier for those in need to get appropriate accommodations.

 

[only hope]

Does anyone know who to email about cm being disrespectful during the DAS interview? I have sent it through the online form twice, second time to guest services and specifyingI am trying to discuss that the language used was inappropriate snd I wasn’t discussing being denied, and got the same form letter back. Which is really upsetting.

 

[Evita_W]

Those bolted items were mentioned in previous posts and I missed mentioning them when I wrote this last night.
The physical devices/equipment I mentioned are specifically protected under the ADA. The reports I saw were soon after Universal started using the company. I don't know if they continued down that road or not, but whether it happened once or hundreds of times, it was/is wrong.

Another thing with the IBCCES Access Card is that once it is approved, it stays in effect forever as long as the person goes in once a year and verifies the information. So, any less than truthful people get a permanent pass.

I agree with your spoiler.

Yeah, DH keeps fighting Knott's about that at their Snoopy on Ice Show, it is the only show where they require you to have the boarding pass to use the ADA entrance if you have mobility device, even though there is no alternate way in for the show that is accessible. But you do have to have a boarding pass for pretty much every attraction, as they would have no other way to assign wait times at present.

Yeah, there are so many issues with the IBCCES access card.

And as for my spoiler, I think it will be interesting to see how that plays out, I was trying to find a good way to keep that separate from the other comments, as it was some speculation, but relevant to the conversation. I also hope whatever system Six Flags Entertainment (the new name apparently) comes up with works well and can be a template for others to follow. I am confident the systems can’t remain as they are at either Six Flags or Cedar Fair for various reasons.