DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Sprinkles&Sprints]

I haven’t been to WDW lately but DLR seems a bit better and multiple people who have been to WDW have reported shorter LLs lately. It’s all anecdotal for now, and the AP superusers likely still have DAS at both parks for a few more weeks.

We are in WDW now - some LL’s are shorter but attendance is down overall (ex. Pirates of the Caribbean standby line was 5 min mid-morning last Friday, Haunted Mansion was 20) so it would be difficult to correlate directly to fewer DAS.

I’d say that the LL’s with typically longer LL waits - Slinky Dog Dash, SDMT - are the same as they were pre-change.

 

[TwoMisfits]

We are in WDW now - some LL’s are shorter but attendance is down overall (ex. Pirates of the Caribbean standby line was 5 min mid-morning last Friday, Haunted Mansion was 20) so it would be difficult to correlate directly to fewer DAS.

I’d say that the LL’s with typically longer LL waits - Slinky Dog Dash, SDMT - are the same as they were pre-change.

Standby waits would be lower with the same size crowd if you cut DAS in half b/c now standby gets to run through twice as often (b/c for now, they aren't selling extra LLs to make up for fewer DAS in the LL line)...so lower standby times, especially at secondary rides, would indicate DAS reductions are working to help the total operation of the park.

 

[lanejudy]

Standby waits would be lower with the same size crowd if you cut DAS in half b/c now standby gets to run through twice as often

In the past, the posted standby wait wasn't necessarily very accurate considering the DAS parties were also virtually in the standby. Now those DAS parties are physically within the standby queue, so it won't necessarily be a shorter standby though it should move easier with fewer stops for LL.

 

[mamaofsix]

In the past, the posted standby wait wasn't necessarily very accurate considering the DAS parties were also virtually in the standby. Now those DAS parties are physically within the standby queue, so it won't necessarily be a shorter standby though it should move easier with fewer stops for LL.

Mathematically, the standby waits would be shorter if there were less guests in the LL.

 

[mamaofsix]

I haven’t been to WDW lately but DLR seems a bit better and multiple people who have been to WDW have reported shorter LLs lately. It’s all anecdotal for now, and the AP superusers likely still have DAS at both parks for a few more weeks.

There are multiple places to find the exact data for wait times, so it's not really anecdotal. Wait times have not decreased since the DAS system changed.

 

[lanejudy]

Mathematically, the standby waits would be shorter if there were less guests in the LL.

Where are you accounting for the guests who now must enter the standby instead of LL? For the most part they don't just disappear, they are now added to the standby queue. They weren't really in standby previously, unless you are claiming the often inflated standby wait was to account for DAS parties.

And therein lies a different issue -- that standby waits aren't all that accurate anyway so maybe WDW has continued to leave them inflated...?

 

[Sprinkles&Sprints]

Standby waits would be lower with the same size crowd if you cut DAS in half b/c now standby gets to run through twice as often (b/c for now, they aren't selling extra LLs to make up for fewer DAS in the LL line)...so lower standby times, especially at secondary rides, would indicate DAS reductions are working to help the total operation of the park.

Perhaps - but my point is that because attendance is down overall (noticeable outside of attractions) it would be difficult to isolate the cause of lower wait times to ONLY the reduction of DAS.

 

[mamaofsix]

Where are you accounting for the guests who now must enter the standby instead of LL? For the most part they don't just disappear, they are now added to the standby queue. They weren't really in standby previously, unless you are claiming the often inflated standby wait was to account for DAS parties.

And therein lies a different issue -- that standby waits aren't all that accurate anyway so maybe WDW has continued to leave them inflated...?

When calculating the standby wait, you account for the fact that LL guests are let in by a much larger ratio than standby - some CMs say this is 4:1, some up to 10:1. If close to 80% of the LL previously were DAS users, and the number of DAS users has now decreased by 40% (latest reports), then the standby will be moving much quicker due to not having to stop and let LL guests in so often. It decreases the wait time in standby overall, even if there are now more people in the standby line.

This was also the primary complaint that led to pressure on Disney to change the DAS system - that standby waits were way too long due to DAS users clogging up the LL to get "instant access." I simply find it ironic that Disney went to all this trouble to calm complaints about wait times - and it didn't fix it at all. Perhaps because 80% of LL users were not DAS??

My view? Wait times are long because we don't have adequate operational attractions during enough hours of the day. Disney used DAS as a scapegoat for their own operational problems. Able-bodied guests were only too happy to jump on the DAS-bashing bandwagon. Those with disabilities paid an unnecessary price - and we've seen no change in wait times whatsoever.

 

[mamaofsix]

T

Where are you accounting for the guests who now must enter the standby instead of LL? For the most part they don't just disappear, they are now added to the standby queue. They weren't really in standby previously, unless you are claiming the often inflated standby wait was to account for DAS parties.

And therein lies a different issue -- that standby waits aren't all that accurate anyway so maybe WDW has continued to leave them inflated...?

There are a couple different spots that calculate the real-time waits instead of using Disney's numbers, so that's pretty easy to check. I agree that it's kinda ridiculous that they inflate wait times. Likely to make more money on G+ sales right now. In the future - it will be to make more money on multipass LL.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

To the extent to which DAS guests now can’t wait out their time at a restaurant or in another line, the amount of people in the SB lines can be lower even as people are pushed out of the LL.

 

[Evita_W]

Standby waits would be lower with the same size crowd if you cut DAS in half b/c now standby gets to run through twice as often (b/c for now, they aren't selling extra LLs to make up for fewer DAS in the LL line)...so lower standby times, especially at secondary rides, would indicate DAS reductions are working to help the total operation of the park.

Except then that would make walkways, shops and dining venues more crowded as fewer people in any sort of queue at any given time and you would notice the crowd levels.

 

[dreamer17555]

To the extent to which DAS guests now can’t wait out their time at a restaurant or in another line, the amount of people in the SB lines can be lower even as people are pushed out of the LL.

Do you mean former DAS guests? Because as far as Im aware a current DAS guest can wait in another SB line or be eating in a restaurant.

 

[nalababybear]

Mathematically, the standby waits would be shorter if there were less guests in the LL.

If they were completely removed, yes.

The denominator of the standby line would physically increase so that line should be longer but more stable because now the former das person needs to process through the standby queue, nit the ll queue.. .assuming ride capaticy and total attendance remain static.

The wait time for the standby line itself should remain the same.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Do you mean former DAS guests? Because as far as Im aware a current DAS guest can wait in another SB line or be eating in a restaurant.

Former DAS guests, of course.

I’m not saying that they were doing anything wrong. But if person A used to be able to wait out his/her time at a restaurant and now no longer can, s/he will probably still have to eat at some point and then would go back to the SB line. So the overall volume of people in the standby lines will be less because they will not be able to “double dip” their time and will likely be able to “accomplish” less.

Again, no judgement here. But someone above asked how the SB volumes would decline if the DAS riders moved from LL to SB and I was trying to explain (badly) how that might work.

 

[lanejudy]

So the overall volume of people in the standby lines will be less because they will not be able to “double dip” their time and will likely be able to “accomplish” less.

That's assuming the standby wait was accounting for DAS parties; I'm not sure there's ever been any consensus on that other than the standby waits tend to be so overinflated anyway. But the standby queue isn't getting physically shorter by volume of bodies, if anything it's getting physically longer with former DAS parties now waiting in standby who used to wait elsewhere.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

That's assuming the standby wait was accounting for DAS parties; I'm not sure there's ever been any consensus on that other than the standby waits tend to be so overinflated anyway. But the standby queue isn't getting physically shorter by volume of bodies, if anything it's getting physically longer with former DAS parties now waiting in standby who used to wait elsewhere.

“Relatively less” than they might have been if everyone in DAS just moved over from LL to SB.

Apparently I can’t speak English today.

Bodes really well for the analysis I’m working for work this morning.

 

[g3pak]

When calculating the standby wait, you account for the fact that LL guests are let in by a much larger ratio than standby - some CMs say this is 4:1, some up to 10:1. If close to 80% of the LL previously were DAS users, and the number of DAS users has now decreased by 40% (latest reports), then the standby will be moving much quicker due to not having to stop and let LL guests in so often. It decreases the wait time in standby overall, even if there are now more people in the standby line.

This was also the primary complaint that led to pressure on Disney to change the DAS system - that standby waits were way too long due to DAS users clogging up the LL to get "instant access." I simply find it ironic that Disney went to all this trouble to calm complaints about wait times - and it didn't fix it at all. Perhaps because 80% of LL users were not DAS??

My view? Wait times are long because we don't have adequate operational attractions during enough hours of the day. Disney used DAS as a scapegoat for their own operational problems. Able-bodied guests were only too happy to jump on the DAS-bashing bandwagon. Those with disabilities paid an unnecessary price - and we've seen no change in wait times whatsoever.

An attraction's capacity remains the same (assuming it is operating in a normal manner). The changes with DAS affect the number of people in LL and the number of people from standby going through over a set amount of time. Change in DAS=fewer people in LL=more people from standby go through in an hour. If the number of people in the standby line does not increase, then wait times drop. Assuming former LL people are now in standby, then standby lines are longer. More people in standby but standby moving faster=same wait times.

(made up numbers following) if Peter Pan can board 1,000 people per hour- before DAS changes let's say 500 people came from LL and 500 came from standby. After changes, let's say 250 come from LL and 750 come from standby. 250 people are moved from LL to standby due to DAS changes. Standby lines are longer but move faster. Peter Pan still has 1,000 guests per hour

 

[nalababybear]

An attraction's capacity remains the same (assuming it is operating in a normal manner). The changes with DAS affect the number of people in LL and the number of people from standby going through over a set amount of time. Change in DAS=fewer people in LL=more people from standby go through in an hour. If the number of people in the standby line does not increase, then wait times drop. Assuming former LL people are now in standby, then standby lines are longer. More people in standby but standby moving faster=same wait times.

(made up numbers following) if Peter Pan can board 1,000 people per hour- before DAS changes let's say 500 people came from LL and 500 came from standby. After changes, let's say 250 come from LL and 750 come from standby. 250 people are moved from LL to standby due to DAS changes. Standby lines are longer but move faster. Peter Pan still has 1,000 guests per hour

Exactly this. Thank you for doing the math.

LL faster, Standby same as throughput of ride is same.

BUT -- there has been a fair amount of disenfranchisement and a palpable amount of former DAS holder will NOT join the standby line and be removed from the equation -- at least short term.

Also, the reinstatement of FP+ preselects may cause the increase of lines again if they take up the former DAS spots vs taking away from G+ capacity slots -- noone will know any of this. The cynic in me believes this was all planned.

Will LL waits improve after all these policy changes settle down come Fall? Only time will tell.

 

[mamaofsix]

An attraction's capacity remains the same (assuming it is operating in a normal manner). The changes with DAS affect the number of people in LL and the number of people from standby going through over a set amount of time. Change in DAS=fewer people in LL=more people from standby go through in an hour. If the number of people in the standby line does not increase, then wait times drop. Assuming former LL people are now in standby, then standby lines are longer. More people in standby but standby moving faster=same wait times.

(made up numbers following) if Peter Pan can board 1,000 people per hour- before DAS changes let's say 500 people came from LL and 500 came from standby. After changes, let's say 250 come from LL and 750 come from standby. 250 people are moved from LL to standby due to DAS changes. Standby lines are longer but move faster. Peter Pan still has 1,000 guests per hour

Your math is failing to account for ratios such as 4:1 or 10:1 for LL entrance and how that affects timing. That is why I included the ratio piece in my calculation. Less people in LL but the same ratio of LL:Standby = exponentially faster throughput of LL. You can't calculate it as x number of people have now moved from LL to Standby. You must insert timing ratios into your equation. A 4:1 or even 10:1 ratio (x:y) where x has decreased by 40% and transferred to y does not increase y by 40%, neither does it cause y to remain stable.

This is why it was said that standby will speed up and wait times decrease if LL users decline. (ie: touring plans predicted math).

This is why the observed result draws us to conclude that DAS users did not make up 80% - or even 40% of LL users.

 

[mamaofsix]

If they were completely removed, yes.

The denominator of the standby line would physically increase so that line should be longer but more stable because now the former das person needs to process through the standby queue, nit the ll queue.. .assuming ride capaticy and total attendance remain static.

The wait time for the standby line itself should remain the same.

See equation explanation in post above.