Covid And The Rest of Us

[ford family]

UK backs COVID-19 vaccine trials that infect volunteers | Reuters

Further progression which makes sense to ensure the vaccine idoes its job properly.
Obviously some regulatory hoops to jump through but not sure what value an "ethics committee" adds.

ford family

 

[ronandannette]

UK backs COVID-19 vaccine trials that infect volunteers | Reuters

Further progression which makes sense to ensure the vaccine idoes its job properly.
Obviously some regulatory hoops to jump through but not sure what value an "ethics committee" adds.

ford family

I’d imagine many things in the field of R&D (medical and non-medical) have such oversight. When (hopefully) brilliant and creative minds are rushing to solve a problem, maybe even racing to do so, there must be numerous decisions along the way that could potentially need such scrutiny for the greater good. It makes sense that individuals with expertise but a more objective mandate would review issues of safety, legality, morality and risk vs reward.

 

[elphaba91]

I’d imagine many things in the field of R&D (medical and non-medical) have such oversight. When (hopefully) brilliant and creative minds are rushing to solve a problem, maybe even racing to do so, there must be numerous decisions along the way that could potentially need such scrutiny for the greater good. It makes sense that individuals with expertise but a more objective mandate would review issues of safety, legality, morality and risk vs reward.

I did a couple of bioethics units at university; absolutely fascinating stuff! Here they’d really have to weigh up the potential benefits for the community as a whole with the potential risks for the individuals in the study. It’s one thing giving people a vaccine that may or may not be effective when it won’t increase their risk of catching it, but intentionally giving someone a potentially deadly and very contagious virus is a massive call.

They’d also be looking to ensure that there aren’t any issues with targeting vulnerable groups in the study; obvious things like not forcefully using psych patients as guinea pigs, but also looking at things like if there is a financial benefit that might make it more targeted towards low socioeconomic groups. At some point there also would have been considerations of any ethical issues with the vaccine itself (e.g. the issues Catholics have with the vaccine stemming from a cell line from an aborted foetus), but that would have come much earlier in the process.

 

[ronandannette]

I did a couple of bioethics units at university; absolutely fascinating stuff! Here they’d really have to weigh up the potential benefits for the community as a whole with the potential risks for the individuals in the study. It’s one thing giving people a vaccine that may or may not be effective when it won’t increase their risk of catching it, but intentionally giving someone a potentially deadly and very contagious virus is a massive call.

They’d also be looking to ensure that there aren’t any issues with targeting vulnerable groups in the study; obvious things like not forcefully using psych patients as guinea pigs, but also looking at things like if there is a financial benefit that might make it more targeted towards low socioeconomic groups. At some point there also would have been considerations of any ethical issues with the vaccine itself (e.g. the issues Catholics have with the vaccine stemming from a cell line from an aborted foetus), but that would have come much earlier in the process.

This is very interesting and informative. I think we’re all rooting hard for a vaccine but few desire a reckless approach. I’m still saddened by the departure from the original concept, announced by world leaders back in April, that global resources would be pooled (on a non-commercial basis) to strive for a vaccine that would benefit all mankind. Alas, a grandiose idea that went by the wayside.

 

[NFLDERS]

Just curious how this is going in other countries. In NL we hear very little about famous people getting the virus. Loads live in Amsterdam or big cities, which are hotspots.
Most likely famous people are ashamed how they caught it, but still... those who did come out and said 'I had it', no one says it was because they went out partying. All they tell how scary it was and/or that we have to take this seriously.

How is it in your countries? Are the famous people alright? ;-)

Interview reports here are of people not disclosing because of possible stigma attachment. The tracing apps are not favored apparently fears of the possibility details to where some people may have been in contact with Covid19 are revealed.

 

[mrs. magoo]

Interview reports here are of people not disclosing because of possible stigma attachment. The tracing apps are not favored apparently fears of the possibility details to where some people may have been in contact with Covid19 are revealed.

I have read this thread since the beginning and because I am in the US I have stayed out and enjoyed the perspective from others. But what is said here is so true of many especially the younger generation. They are afraid that they will be treated like pariahs if they disclose they have contracted the virus. As a society we need to do a better job of not blaming someone when they become sick. Do we blame someone when they get food poisoning, the stomach bug or the flu? No we ask them how they are feeling what can we do to help them. The blaming of people has got to end and we are a society need to just be nicer to everyone. Ok I will go back into lurkdom. Have a nice day.

 

[MommyinHonduras]

The former Honduran president Mel Zelaya who was removed from office back in 2009 in a what the locals call a "coup" but by definition does not qualify, made a big media push in Venezuela by posing for photos receiving the 3rd stage vaccination trial from Russia. His wife has run in the next two elections since by creating a new political party that quickly made a 3rd viable party by numbers, getting around 30% of the vote but not winning either election. I have not heard yet if she will be throwing her name back in the ring for the 2021 election.

https://www.republicworld.com/world...eives-russian-virus-vaccine-in-venezuela.html
We do not have many celebrities here but the current President tested positive back in July along with his wife. Both fully recovered.

 

[NFLDERS]

I have read this thread since the beginning and because I am in the US I have stayed out and enjoyed the perspective from others. But what is said here is so true of many especially the younger generation. They are afraid that they will be treated like pariahs if they disclose they have contracted the virus. As a society we need to do a better job of not blaming someone when they become sick. Do we blame someone when they get food poisoning, the stomach bug or the flu? No we ask them how they are feeling what can we do to help them. The blaming of people has got to end and we are a society need to just be nicer to everyone. Ok I will go back into lurkdom. Have a nice day.

Agree whole heartedly. I think it's a fear based of being thought a long hauler.

 

[penn19]

I have read this thread since the beginning and because I am in the US I have stayed out and enjoyed the perspective from others. But what is said here is so true of many especially the younger generation. They are afraid that they will be treated like pariahs if they disclose they have contracted the virus. As a society we need to do a better job of not blaming someone when they become sick. Do we blame someone when they get food poisoning, the stomach bug or the flu? No we ask them how they are feeling what can we do to help them. The blaming of people has got to end and we are a society need to just be nicer to everyone. Ok I will go back into lurkdom. Have a nice day.

Even on some of these threads people have said if you get the virus because you were doing something “wrong” they shouldn’t have to treat you.

 

[ronandannette]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...t-exposures-added/ar-BB1ablUF?ocid=spartanntp
I found this today and it's the first mention I've seen anywhere of transmission taking place on aircraft but it shouldn't come as any shock.

I have read this thread since the beginning and because I am in the US I have stayed out and enjoyed the perspective from others. But what is said here is so true of many especially the younger generation. They are afraid that they will be treated like pariahs if they disclose they have contracted the virus. As a society we need to do a better job of not blaming someone when they become sick. Do we blame someone when they get food poisoning, the stomach bug or the flu? No we ask them how they are feeling what can we do to help them. The blaming of people has got to end and we are a society need to just be nicer to everyone. Ok I will go back into lurkdom. Have a nice day.

Not at all, we welcome posters from everywhere as it serves to round out our information. The original problem was that non-US posters were getting lost in some of the more extensive Covid threads and our comments became irrelevant to the discussions.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...t-exposures-added/ar-BB1ablUF?ocid=spartanntp
I found this today and it's the first mention I've seen anywhere of transmission taking place on aircraft but it shouldn't come as any shock.

I've read of just a few situations with issues with flights but honestly less than I thought there would be.

 

[Karin1984]

In the national news this morning in NL: only Belgium is doing worse than the Netherlands with how many infections per 100.000 since June.
But of course this is a subjective way of presenting the news, as the United Kingdom is left out.

Interview reports here are of people not disclosing because of possible stigma attachment. The tracing apps are not favored apparently fears of the possibility details to where some people may have been in contact with Covid19 are revealed.

I get that, but still, I feel there would be more. You would expect some B-star celebrities to claim they have had it to get some extra media attention.

 

[ford family]

In the national news this morning in NL: only Belgium is doing worse than the Netherlands with how many infections per 100.000 since June.
But of course this is a subjective way of presenting the news, as the United Kingdom is left out.

I get that, but still, I feel there would be more. You would expect some B-star celebrities to claim they have had it to get some extra media attention.

COVID-19 situation update for the EU/EEA and the UK, as of 20 October 2020 (europa.eu)

This website, also ECDC, shows data for EU countries, EEA countries and the UK .
Can't see a graph that would correspond to the ones you have shown but the table of cases per 100,000 over the last fortnight has the Czech Republic, Belgium and The Netherlands as the highest.

ford family

 

[SirDuff]

I did a couple of bioethics units at university; absolutely fascinating stuff! Here they’d really have to weigh up the potential benefits for the community as a whole with the potential risks for the individuals in the study. It’s one thing giving people a vaccine that may or may not be effective when it won’t increase their risk of catching it, but intentionally giving someone a potentially deadly and very contagious virus is a massive call.

They’d also be looking to ensure that there aren’t any issues with targeting vulnerable groups in the study; obvious things like not forcefully using psych patients as guinea pigs, but also looking at things like if there is a financial benefit that might make it more targeted towards low socioeconomic groups. At some point there also would have been considerations of any ethical issues with the vaccine itself (e.g. the issues Catholics have with the vaccine stemming from a cell line from an aborted foetus), but that would have come much earlier in the process.

Oh, the joys of ethics committees. They are super important but sometimes things go weird.

When I was doing my PhD, my study was funded by the NIH (though I was in Canada). We had to submit the racial information for all our participants. First, many of the participants didn't identify wiht any of the categories (difference in how people describe themseleves). The best though was getting a call threatening to halt the study becuase the participant profile showed that I was likely African-Americans (though, actually, I didn't have a single American). And, yes, probably 95% of my participants identified as somesort of African descent; however, my research was in Sickle Cell Disease - it occurs almost exclusively in people of African descent (has to do with protection from malaria for those who are curious). They did back off but maybe should have looked first.

And, let's not talk about the difference in how Canada (and almost everywhere) writes their dates differently to the US, causing panic that I was starting treatment in patients before getting their consent.

But, yes, ethics are a major consideration in he development and roll out of a vaccine. In addition to what you listed, they are also important in decisions about stopping the study (either becuase of harm to participants or because it is so clearly effective that those on the placebo should be ffered the vaccine).

 

[Karin1984]

In a video, our king said sorry for going to Greece. Some journalists noted that the two eldest princesses (16 & 15) stayed in Greece one day longer. The drama! These kids have no official obligations yet, and it's autumn break! Pfff....

Also the new lockdown measures started the 13th, and our numbers are not going down... the increase is slowing down, but still... not going in the right direction. 8500 new infections, about 500 more than yesterday.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So this seemed to be a spot to mention this---my state hasn't had another state on its travel quarantine list for a while but added today North Dakota. That is in addition to the existing restrictions of "Attended/traveled to mass gathering events out-of-state of 500 people or greater where individuals do not socially distance (6 feet) and wear masks. Been on a cruise ship or river cruise on or after March 15"

But the interesting thing is they added the tiny country of Andorra. It's in Europe and I'm sure our fellow European (and of course other global ones may as well) DISers know much more about it.

In the past they had kinda generalize international destinations as CDC travel alert level 3 but that hasn't been on there for a few months IIRC. It's just interesting they added 1 just 1 country to our quarantine list and one that (and I mean this with no offense whatsoever) I had never heard of. A brief look into it is a destination known for skiing.

For those unfamiliar in the U.S. various states have imposed quarantine requirements (mostly unenforced TBH) on their residents or those visiting their state. Some states (like the one next to me) does not have a quarantine list.

 

[Karin1984]

And apparently we can do still worse in NL!
- 9200 infections today, 500 more than yesterday.
- Probably from tomorrow we will ask Germany to take in patiënts again.
- the peak isnt expected till a few weeks.
- the latest restrictions started on the 13th and they would evaluate on the 27th. For sure there will be extra measures. But the region where my mother lives want them now already.

 

[mrs. magoo]

And apparently we can do still worse in NL!
- 9200 infections today, 500 more than yesterday.
- Probably from tomorrow we will ask Germany to take in patiënts again.
- the peak isnt expected till a few weeks.
- the latest restrictions started on the 13th and they would evaluate on the 27th. For sure there will be extra measures. But the region where my mother lives want them now already.

I am truly wondering what people are saying as to how this could have been prevented in the Netherlands. I work with a woman who is from the Netherlands and her mother, father and sister all live there. Of course I have not been able to see her to have a discussion since we are remote learning but I am interested to hear what people think could have prevented it from happening. I would love if someone from Japan or an Asian country was on here since they seem to have a better handle on things if you go by information on world o meters.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I am truly wondering what people are saying as to how this could have been prevented in the Netherlands. I work with a woman who is from the Netherlands and her mother, father and sister all live there. Of course I have not been able to see her to have a discussion since we are remote learning but I am interested to hear what people think could have prevented it from happening. I would love if someone from Japan or an Asian country was on here since they seem to have a better handle on things if you go by information on world o meters.

In Ireland we are day one into a second 6 week national lockdown, basically back to March/ April restrictions. There were 1066 new cases reprted in the last 24 hours.

Our numbers started to rise end of August, start of September. Most of the clusters and surge in numbers can be traced back to house parties and family gatherings. At the start of September there were a huge number of communions, confirmations, weddings, family parties which had been postponed. People became lax about wearing masks etc because it was a family gathering, in someones home, no strangers. The schools also went back to in person classes and amateur sports restarted.

The Irish Health Department showed a case study last week how 1 man who returned from travel and didnt quarantine when he came back to Ireland and then tested positive and then infected 56 people.

A combination of pandemic fatigue, a rise in anti mask / anti restriction support influenced by the current occupant of the White House in America and areas of low income high density multi generational housing . Once September hit, and the schools went back, people really relaxed and just were not as careful.

 

[Karin1984]

I am truly wondering what people are saying as to how this could have been prevented in the Netherlands. I work with a woman who is from the Netherlands and her mother, father and sister all live there. Of course I have not been able to see her to have a discussion since we are remote learning but I am interested to hear what people think could have prevented it from happening. I would love if someone from Japan or an Asian country was on here since they seem to have a better handle on things if you go by information on world o meters.

Some experts say that we have waited too long with mask mandates etc. however, I am not sure. As surrounding countries like Belgium and Germany, Spain have been much stricter than NL but are also fully in a second wave. Belgium is doing even worse than NL.
Could have been just a case of bad luck to have superspreaders without symptoms at the wrong place at the wrong time.

If I would say one thing that could have helped, it was the reopening of the high schools. And then especially from age 15 and older. There have been some articles about how young people seemed to be more susceptible to catching and spreading the virus, without having symptoms.