Controversies over Snow White remake

[NotUrsula]

Yes, I am conflating it because all of those "high fantasy" stories have shared aspects. The term "dwarf" is commonly used to describe exactly what we see in Snow White - people of short and stocky stature, with beards, and who are experts at mining and maybe have a passion for valuable metals and jewels. This is a common trope - and yes, it can vary somewhat between different folklore tales and interpretations.

I'm not trying to get super specific and lost in the semantics here, but my point is that the characters are NOT the same, nor are they intended to be, humans with dwarfism.

OK, I'll buy that with "high fantasy" but Snow White (as told in the Disney version, anyway) doesn't fit into that genre. It's simple traditional folklore -- no non-human magical species, no special imaginary magical animals, not even any wizards or witches. It's human foibles writ large for the purpose of moral instruction stealthily disguised as entertainment, but it's not high fantasy.

 

[BrianL]

OK, I'll buy that with "high fantasy" but Snow White (as told in the Disney version, anyway) doesn't fit into that genre. It's simple traditional folklore -- no non-human magical species, no special imaginary magical animals, not even any wizards or witches. It's human foibles writ large for the purpose of moral instruction stealthily disguised as entertainment, but it's not high fantasy.

It is clearly cut from the same cloth though - maybe "High Fantasy" isn't exactly the right term, but I think what I am saying is very understandable. Since you want to get so deep into the semantics, the Wikipedia article on "Seven Dwarfs" specifically links to this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_(folklore)
From that article:
"In Germanic folklore, including Germanic Mythology, a dwarf is an entity that dwells in the mountains and in the earth. The entity is associated with wisdom, smithing, mining, and crafting."

I think that's pretty clearly what we see in Snow White. They are clearly not human and the Snow White tale absolutely contains magic, etc. so it's not any kind of stretch for them to be there.

Look, my real opinion is that I think people are analyzing this WAY TOO MUCH, and I myself am guilty of that now too. Why don't we get more concerned about yet another superfluous Disney remake.

 

[Dakota731]

It used to be called acting! Everyone who got a part didn’t have to be the exact character they are portraying. Hollywood would never need makeup or costumes if everyone just played themselves. Should be the person with the most talent gets the part not having a quota for every race, color sex or religion. Not sure why we can’t all just be Americans instead of segregating everyone by some characteristic. I thought that’s what we were trying to get away from in the 1960s

 

[superme80]

I told Disney years ago to stop with the live actions. They didn't listen to me. So now I just watch all the drama unfold with a big bowl of popcorn.

 

[Sinder]

He has the influence now to create change, he didn't at the beginning of his career. He's not trying to take jobs away from anyone, but to make it so people like him don't need to take on stereotypical (sometimes degrading) roles like he did.

Spare me. He had influence back then, he could have turned down roles. He didn’t, he made himself semi famous snd rich taking on those stereotypical roles.
if he isn’t interested in auditioning for one of the 7 Dwarfs then he should let those who want too decide whether they are OK with the roles.
Did they even ask him to speak for them? Maybe they see this as their ticket to a $25 net worth too

 

[BrianL]

I told Disney years ago to stop with the live actions. They didn't listen to me. So now I just watch all the drama unfold with a big bowl of popcorn.

The thing is that most of those remakes have made big, big money! Personally I prefer the ones that really change it up from teh source material, like Maleficent or Dumbo, but those haven't been as successful as the straight remakes.

 

[superme80]

The thing is that most of those remakes have made big, big money! Personally I prefer the ones that really change it up from teh source material, like Maleficent or Dumbo, but those haven't been as successful as the straight remakes.

That is how my mom feels. She loved Maleficent. The only live action I watched was Alice in Wonderland. I hated it. I won't watch anymore.

 

[Moliphino]

Spare me. He had influence back then, he could have turned down roles. He didn’t, he made himself semi famous snd rich taking on those stereotypical roles.
if he isn’t interested in auditioning for one of the 7 Dwarfs then he should let those who want too decide whether they are OK with the roles.
Did they even ask him to speak for them? Maybe they see this as their ticket to a $25 net worth too

Him turning down those roles early in his career would have changed nothing, they would've moved onto the next guy without a second thought.

 

[Sinder]

Him turning down those roles early in his career would have changed nothing, they would've moved onto the next guy without a second thought.

If he had turned them down I'd respect him coming out against those type of roles now.
The fact is he was perfectly OK getting rich off those stereotypical roles when he was the one who needed jobs. You can paint him anyway you want but he's just a hypocrite.

 

[BrianL]

That is how my mom feels. She loved Maleficent. The only live action I watched was Alice in Wonderland. I hated it. I won't watch anymore.

Well, some are good and some are bad. I do prefer the weirder ones. I didn't mind Alice, but the sequel was rough. Maleficent was good and the sequel too (talk about High Fantasy!). Dumbo is very enjoyable, and honestly I really liked Cruella (if that's really the same thing). I thought Beauty and the Beast was fine, but why would I ever watch it over the animated masterpeice? Same for Cinderella and Lion King - they weren't "bad" but they were just pointless when the animated versions are just so, so good!

 

[chickapin parterre]

I told Disney years ago to stop with the live actions. They didn't listen to me. So now I just watch all the drama unfold with a big bowl of popcorn.

okay then.....let the public drama unfold with the new Swiss Family Robinson

 

[Moliphino]

If he had turned them down I'd respect him coming out against those type of roles now.
The fact is he was perfectly OK getting rich off those stereotypical roles when he was the one who needed jobs. You can paint him anyway you want but he's just a hypocrite.

You wouldn't know who he is now because those roles were all he could get starting out. So you wouldn't even hear about it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

okay then.....let the public drama unfold with the new Swiss Family Robinson

There's a new one of that? I think I missed that.

I did enjoy watching for the first time (no hate please lol) with my DISer group a while back.

 

[prestoncaldwell]

LOL and Game of Thrones offered good examples?

Tyrion was a groundbreaking role for the depiction of dwarfism in film and TV. He was a complex character, intelligent, powerful, courageous.

So yes, it offered great examples how to avoid stereotyping little people as comedic dwarves.

 

[GoingSince1990]

With the dwarf thing, the Snow White skin color thing, and the nonconsensual kiss of an unconscious woman thing, this really is a dream come true for those who love to get offended about stuff.

 

[Lilsia]

Getting a job is the point of the discussion. Because of Peter Dinklage asking for more diverse roles for actors with dwarfism, others are out of a job.

I think that this is a no win situation. The story has Dwarfs in it, it's in the Title. So if you cast actors with dwarfism, that is "typecasting" but if they use average size people and CG them to look shorter, then someone would complain that the didn't use actors with dwarfism. Disney is damned if the do and damned if the don't.

 

[Suger Mag]

Tyrion was a groundbreaking role for the depiction of dwarfism in film and TV. He was a complex character, intelligent, powerful, courageous.

So yes, it offered great examples how to avoid stereotyping little people as comedic dwarves.

Tyrion was my favorite character, but he also was a stereotype in many ways. . His character was a dwarf... his entire storyline was about being a dwarf and dealing with the difficulties of being a dwarf... and no one but a dwarf could have played Tyrion. My take on DInklidges' comments is he would prefer a movie where the focus is not on BEING a dwarf. Where dwarf is not the main focus or end all of a character. And although a truly blind society is a great idea in regards to seeing people first .. we have a long way to go before that can happen. We are a species that uses visual recognition as a primary sense.

The theme of Tyrions's fight is not unique. It is the theme that many folks face. People who have highly visible circumstances of all kinds... achondroplasia dwarfism, paralysis, disfigurement, whatever it is... they often struggle with being recognized and perceived and seen as people first, situation second.

This new movie is not made yet... We (and Mr Dinklidge) do not know the storyline beyond the basic theme of the tale... but it is about dwarfs... and to be clear... not the medical situation dwarf like what Mr Dinklidge ... but the mythical and magical creatures that live in the mountains with Goblins..

...and who knows maybe Disney will make the Snow White dwarfs also complex characters,.... intelligent, powerful, and courageous.

 

[Karin1984]

With the dwarf thing, the Snow White skin color thing, and the nonconsensual kiss of an unconscious woman thing, this really is a dream come true for those who love to get offended about stuff.

WIth the dwarf thing, it's not about getting offended about every detail, but that representation matters. This is a good thing to get offended about.
As I remarked before, in the 1920s when film started, and the decades after, the only roles coloured people could get were the roles of the help/servant/dimwitted or comedic etc. Change was necessary to also have these actors play the 'normal' roles. This dwarf-discussion is not much different.

Roles actors with dwarfism usually play are indeed dwarfs in fantasy movies or elfs in Christmas movies. The first are usually grumpy, stubborn men, elfs are overly cheerful. Neither is a good representation. And you can be sure that people with dwarfism are called names based on the stereotypes in movies. Just like coloured people had to deal with (have to deal with) due to stereotypes in the movies from the 1920-1960s.
Of course dwarf actors are a much smaller (no pun intended) group than coloured actors, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter. No doubt the lack of roles is a cause of why people with dwarfism do not chose to become an actor, while they might want to.

Similar with other roles in movies, like roles for a character in a wheelchair. I can only think of Notting Hill where her being in a wheelchair wasn't the focus of the plot. It was helpful at the end of the movie, but her character just happened to be in a wheelchair.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money...eaction-boy-wheelchair-goes-viral/4788369002/

 

[Pea-n-Me]

This could actually be something positive for people with dwarfism.

I never thought of the seven dwarfs as not being human.

 

[Sinder]

Every single group of people, whether it is their race, ethnicity, hair color, weight, religion, disability, education level, profession, geographical location, etc has been used in stereotypical ways in entertainment forever. Nobody has a corner on that market.
If an actor doesn't want to play a specific character then they don't have too. It's simple to not try out for a part. When an actor has "made it" in the business, because they chose to take those roles when offered, they have no business speaking for all the other actors that come after them who may want to take these roles now.

And whoever said Disney is darned if they do, darned if they don't is 100% correct. In this day and age you can count on someone being offended because you didn't include a certain group and someone offended if you did include a certain group.
Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs is a story about a full size woman and 7 very small men. If someone with Dwarfism wants to take on the role of on of those very small men- good for them. If they don't want to because they feel it doesn't represent them in a positive way then good for them too.
It's a great thing to have different opinions and the ability to do what works for you. Unfortunately too many people think they know what is best for everyone else and don't know when to stay in their lane