Controversies over Snow White remake

[Sinder]

Peter Dinklage has spoken out more often hating the beginning of his career because he was condemned to certain parts as he wasn't a known actor, and at a certain point it's then about: To eat or not to eat, that is the question.
There are plenty of actors, of all shapes and sizes who do jobs because principles do not buy you dinner or pay the rent.

But it takes people at the top to say 'hey, this isn't right'. Someone at the bottom doesn't have the same impact.

From Hattie McDaniel's wiki page (yes, I know, it's not the most reliable source), the first woman of colour to receive an Oscar:
As her fame grew, McDaniel faced growing criticism from some members of the black community. Groups such as the NAACP complained that Hollywood stereotypes not only restricted black actors to servant roles but often portrayed them as lazy, dim-witted, satisfied with lowly positions, or violent. In addition to addressing the studios, they called upon actors, and especially leading black actors, to pressure studios to offer more substantive roles and at least not pander to stereotypes. They also argued that these portrayals were unfair as well as inaccurate and that, coupled with segregation and other forms of discrimination, such stereotypes were making it difficult for all black people, not only actors, to overcome racism and succeed in the entertainment industry.

Like I said he was OK with it when it benefitted him. Now he wants to speak up against it when someone else needs "to eat or not eat". Maybe those actors at the bottom can decide for themselves whether they are OK with it so they can pay their bills. He can enjoy his fame and riches from all his past roles.
I wonder if he'll offer to pay for those actors meals?
He's a typical Hollywood hypocrite.

BTW his net worth looks to be $25 million. I wonder had he taken a stand for what was right when he was at the bottom just how much that would be?

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I won’t comment on Peter’s comments because I can see both sides on it. And it’s not really my place to comment.

I have more problems with a Latina actress playing Snow White if they keep the name. The name described the appearance of the character. If it is just going to be a princess with an evil stepmother not named Snow White, I am fine. I just hope they dont keep the name and give a BS reasoning for that her skin isnt as white as snow, but her name is.

I have no intention of seeing the movie. The animated one was perfect just as it is. No reason to mess it up by “reimagining” it. Snow White is supposed to be white. And the dwarves don’t live in a cave.

I truly have no words for this. In no part of the movie is she said to be white. She is said to have skin as fair as snow. Latinas can have skin like that. I’m assuming you won’t be seeing the new Little Mermaid movie either then and you have the same issues with who they cast?

Rachel is an amazing actress and will be wonderful in this part. If you haven’t seen West Side Story, I suggest you do.

 

[JoeA]

LOL and Game of Thrones offered good examples?

...and he didn't seem too offended to cash his check from the movie "Elf"!

Any more you can't do a thing without offending somebody.

 

[Sinder]

I have no idea who Rachel Zegler is so I looked her up, looks white to me. Probably because her mom is Columbian and her dad is Polish.
She looks like a perfect Snow White, she's super cute.
It's a fairy tale, it's not a biopic who cares who plays a fictional character.

 

[Karin1984]

I won’t comment on Peter’s comments because I can see both sides on it. And it’s not really my place to comment.



I truly have no words for this. In no part of the movie is she said to be white. She is said to have skin as fair as snow. Latinas can have skin like that. I’m assuming you won’t be seeing the new Little Mermaid movie either then and you have the same issues with who they cast?

Rachel is an amazing actress and will be wonderful in this part. If you haven’t seen West Side Story, I suggest you do.

Maybe it's a translation issue with how the story is told in Dutch in the original fairytale (haven't seen Disney's Snow White in years). How I was raised with this story is that her skin is white. We do not say 'fair', we say white. Probably because the original story is in German and these two languages are close, so we got a literal translation.

I have no issue with the actress in Snow White, loved her in West Side Story. or the actress in the Little Mermaid, I think they are going to do a great job.
It's not an issue with the cast, it's with the name Snow White, which to me comes from 'having a skin as white as snow'. If they say fair, it's a different story.

 

[chickapin parterre]

Variations[edit]
See also: Queen (Snow White) in derivative works
The principal studies of traditional Snow White variants are Ernst Böklen's, Schneewittchen Studien of 1910, which reprints fifty Snow White variants,[15] and studies by Steven Swann Jones.[16] In their first edition, the Brothers Grimm published the version they had first collected, in which the villain of the piece is Snow White's jealous biological mother. In a version sent to another folklorist prior to the first edition, additionally, she does not order a servant to take her to the woods, but takes her there herself to gather flowers and abandons her; in the first edition, this task was transferred to a servant.[17] It is believed that the change to a stepmother in later editions was to tone down the story for children.[18][19]
A popular version of Snow White is the 1937 American animated film Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs by Walt Disney. Disney's variation of Snow White gave the dwarfs names and included a singing Snow White. The Disney film also is the only version in which Snow White and her prince meet before she bites the apple; in fact, it is this meeting that sets the plot in motion. Instead of her lungs and liver, as written in the original, the huntsman is asked by the queen to bring back Snow White's heart. While the heart is mentioned, it is never shown in the box. Snow White is much more mature (an adolescent). And she is discovered by the dwarfs after cleaning the house, not vandalizing it. Furthermore, in the Disney movie the evil queen tries only once to kill Snow White (by a poisoned apple) and fails (this was likely to save time). She then dies by falling down a cliff and being crushed by a boulder, after the dwarfs had chased her through the forest. In the original, the queen is forced to dance to death.[20]
Many later versions omit the Queen's attempted cannibalism, eating what she believed to be the lungs and liver of Snow White. This may be a reference to old Slavic mythology which includes tales of witches eating human hearts.

SO THE BIG QUESTION IS.....DOES SHE CLEAN THE HOUSE OR ORCHESTRAE THE ANIMALS BECACUSE AT DISNEYLAND. SHE LEFT A BIG MESS MAKING THAT PIE FOR GRUMPY

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I won’t comment on Peter’s comments because I can see both sides on it. And it’s not really my place to comment.



I truly have no words for this. In no part of the movie is she said to be white. She is said to have skin as fair as snow. Latinas can have skin like that. I’m assuming you won’t be seeing the new Little Mermaid movie either then and you have the same issues with who they cast?

Rachel is an amazing actress and will be wonderful in this part. If you haven’t seen West Side Story, I suggest you do.

I don't really have a problem with her playing the role but then again I don't have a problem with anyone playing any role regardless of their ethnicity or voice or whatever (well except when it comes to Christmas movies that insist on terrible accents for royalty stories but that's another story ) however and don't take this to mean I'm actually siding with the full discussion here I do actually get what the PP is talking about. Consider how much people do want roles to go to people who correspond with the given ethnicity of the role. Maybe it's slightly debatable just how much her skin is white as snow (Kristen Stewart fit that role fairly well in that respect) but if people in general (not you personally) wish roles to match up better it should be applied uniformly. Optics-wise in the current understanding surrounding our awareness of biases it will look bad to vocalize wanting a "whiter" actress to play a role where the description is "skin as white as snow". The full description of what her mother wanted was "skin as white as snow, lips as red as blood and hair as black as ebony". What you might be thinking about the fair part is "fairest one" which is about beauty, not indicative of skin color.

It's a story, it's fantasy, etc but reasonably, even if I don't really care, I can understand the other side of that conversation. Regardless I'm sure Rachel will be a fine actress to the part (and likely much better than Kristen..lol..)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Hmm I guess I get the point of both sides with respects to job opportunities lost. It can be hard I think for anyone to stand up and say they don't like how hollywood has done xyz. It's a difficult position to be in to straddle that line to speak for all vs speaking for your own personal journey.

 

[Karin1984]

The full description of what her mother wanted was "skin as white as snow, lips as red as blood and hair as black as ebony". What you might be thinking about the fair part is "fairest one" which is about beauty, not indicative of skin color.

That is a thing from the original German text, and how it was told to me in Dutch, it says 'the most beautiful of all'. The English translation is more ambigous.

Except when it is about the mirror. The German text says 'mirror mirror on the wall', in English it usually is 'magic mirror on the wall'.

 

[BrianL]

Why was it assumed that they would cast actors with dwarfism anyway? The "dwarfs" in The Hobbit aren't - and as I said previously, that is the kind of Dwarf we are talking about. It's just not the same thing. That is to say I am not against casting actors with dwarfism either of course, but they don't have to play the seven guys who take Snow White in.

 

[chickapin parterre]

Why was it assumed that they would cast actors with dwarfism anyway? The "dwarfs" in The Hobbit aren't - and as I said previously, that is the kind of Dwarf we are talking about. It's just not the same thing. That is to say I am not against casting actors with dwarfism either of course, but they don't have to play the seven guys who take Snow White in.

fun concept....casting calls for young sean austins and elijah woods because watching nicole kidman and her prep for the lucy movie....I always though lucy was a tall woma, but she was 5'7....and she towered over everyone on the set

 

[NotUrsula]

Why was it assumed that they would cast actors with dwarfism anyway? The "dwarfs" in The Hobbit aren't - and as I said previously, that is the kind of Dwarf we are talking about. It's just not the same thing. That is to say I am not against casting actors with dwarfism either of course, but they don't have to play the seven guys who take Snow White in.

Because that's apparently already been tried, in the aforementioned Snow White and the Huntsman (the Kristen Stewart one); they used CGI to make average-sized actors appear "dwarfish".

I think Dinklage's question isn't really related to the color of the girl's skin or the height of the men who shelter her, and wanting the casting to be true to the story. More to the point, why is someone re-making this story at all? It is a fairy tale, yes, but one that is stuffed to the gills with stereotypes that are no longer considered acceptable in real life. You have evil stepmothers who try to kill stepchildren for venal reasons, dim pretty girls and the men who pity them because of their looks, miners who are dwarves (though probably not people who have that medical condition, but malnourished former child laborers with stunted growth), dwarves who have unfortunate personalities, but who turn out to be surprisingly(!) kind in spite of who and what they are.

I think that what he is trying to say is that, like Amos n' Andy, this is a story for another time, one thankfully past, that belongs only in an archive.

 

[BrianL]

Because that's apparently already been tried, in the aforementioned Snow White and the Huntsman (the Kristen Stewart one); they used CGI to make average-sized actors appear "dwarfish".

I think Dinklage's question isn't really related to the color of the girl's skin or the height of the men who shelter her, and wanting the casting to be true to the story. More to the point, why is someone re-making this story at all? It is a fairy tale, yes, but one that is stuffed to the gills with stereotypes that are no longer considered acceptable in real life. You have evil stepmothers who try to kill stepchildren for venal reasons, dim pretty girls and the men who pity them because of their looks, miners who are dwarves, dwarves who have unfortunate personalities, but who turn out to be surprisingly(!) kind in spite of who and what they are.

I think that what he is trying to say is that, like Amos n' Andy, this is a story for another time, one thankfully past, that belongs only in an archive.

But, the "dwarfs" in the story are not humans with dwarfism. They are not humans at all! They may as well be elves, orcs, or goblins. They are not based on real people. They don't even have to be all that short, just kind of stocky, and the beards are common (even the females have beards). That's my point, these charactes are not representative of people who have dwarfism - they just have a common name (and no, I'm no expert on the origins of the word or anything).

 

[mom2rtk]

Some movies were never meant to be "remade" into live action. Disney deserves all the grief they get over this.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But, the "dwarfs" in the story are not humans with dwarfism. They are not humans at all! They may as well be elves, orcs, or goblins. They are not based on real people. They don't even have to be all that short, just kind of stocky, adnt he beards are common (even the females have beards). That's my point, these charactes are not representative of people who have dwarfism - they just have a common name (and no, I'm no expert on the origins of the word or anything).

That's probably the challenge of taking fantasy into real life. Frankly I don't know that Disney is as interested as Peter Jackson was on doing the camera work for forced perspective, those films were of epic territories and I don't think Disney is even trying to get to that level here.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

More to the point, why is someone re-making this story at all?

Because that's what Disney has been doing I don't think there's a philosophical quandary for Disney here. They are just doing what they've been doing (even what not asked lol) with remaking their prior films. I'm sure we could find stereotypes in virtually all of their remakes and originals with lately some they've wanted to update (like in Aladdin Jasmine being a bit more power-woman style) but largely not.

 

[jdb in AZ]

Rachel has an amazing singing voice -- I hope she sings something in the new Snow White movie.

 

[NotUrsula]

But, the "dwarfs" in the story are not humans with dwarfism. They are not humans at all! They may as well be elves, orcs, or goblins. They are not based on real people. They don't even have to be all that short, just kind of stocky, and the beards are common (even the females have beards). That's my point, these charactes are not representative of people who have dwarfism - they just have a common name (and no, I'm no expert on the origins of the word or anything).

With all due respect, you've repeated that, but where are you getting it? (Females? There are no female dwarves in the Snow White story. Perhaps you are conflating the Brothers Grimm with JRR Tolkien?) Elves, orcs and goblins have aspects of magic surrounding them, but I don't remember seeing any magical powers in Disney's dwarves or the Grimm originals; they are just conveniently short-statured miners with quirky personalities. The only magical thing in the story is the mirror, and even that isn't clearly magical in the original story; it could just be the stepmother's inner voice coming out.

I'll agree that the characters probably don't represent people who have the medical condition of congenital dwarfism, but I don't think they are meant to be an imaginary not-human species, either. Most folklorists believe that the "dwarves" in the Snow White story were probably miners whose growth was stunted by their working conditions and lack of proper childhood nutrition. In any case they were thought to be freakish and somewhat frightening, which is why they are charmed by Snow White's lack of fear of them.

Also, as to it being remade because Disney's "just doing that", let's consider. Are they remaking Song of the South? No, they are not, and they will not, because the story is no longer considered socially acceptable. I (and apparently Peter Dinklage) think Snow White falls into the same category.

 

[Moliphino]

Like I said he was OK with it when it benefitted him. Now he wants to speak up against it when someone else needs "to eat or not eat". Maybe those actors at the bottom can decide for themselves whether they are OK with it so they can pay their bills. He can enjoy his fame and riches from all his past roles.
I wonder if he'll offer to pay for those actors meals?
He's a typical Hollywood hypocrite.

BTW his net worth looks to be $25 million. I wonder had he taken a stand for what was right when he was at the bottom just how much that would be?

He has the influence now to create change, he didn't at the beginning of his career. He's not trying to take jobs away from anyone, but to make it so people like him don't need to take on stereotypical (sometimes degrading) roles like he did.

 

[BrianL]

With all due respect, you've repeated that, but where are you getting it? (Females? There are no female dwarves in the Snow White story. Perhaps you are conflating the Brothers Grimm with JRR Tolkien?) Elves, orcs and goblins have aspects of magic surrounding them, but I don't remember seeing any magical powers in Disney's dwarves or the Grimm originals; they are just conveniently short-statured miners with quirky personalities. The only magical thing in the story is the mirror, and even that isn't clearly magical in the original story; it could just be the stepmother's inner voice coming out.

I'll agree that the characters probably don't represent people who have the medical condition of congenital dwarfism, but I don't think they are meant to be an imaginary magical species, either. Most folklorists believe that the "dwarves" in the Snow White story were probably miners whose growth was stunted by their working conditions and lack of proper childhood nutrition.

Yes, I am conflating it because all of those "high fantasy" stories have shared aspects. The term "dwarf" is commonly used to describe exactly what we see in Snow White - people of short and stocky stature, with beards, and who are experts at mining and maybe have a passion for valuable metals and jewels. This is a common trope - and yes, it can vary somewhat between different folklore tales and interpretations.

I'm not trying to get super specific and lost in the semantics here, but my point is that the characters are NOT the same, nor are they intended to be, humans with dwarfism.