*Confirmed* G+ Changes to Advanced Lightning Lane

[Brian Noble]

Do they need to do something? I am not so sure.

Occupancy rates at the WDW resorts typically run in the mid-80s to low-90s. That hasn't changed much in the past few years based on the quarterly reports, even though the minimal "on-site perks" model has been in place since at least the beginning of '22, when ME ended.

There has been some softening in Orlando tourism, and Disney is feeling at least their fair share of it, if not more. But they have shown a willingness to play the long game in the past, riding out the inevitable cycles of decreased demand with marginally more discounting, without changing the fundamental value proposition, and waiting for demand to recover based on macro-economic trends.

That's helped by the fact that the world keeps making more families with school-aged kids, and a Disney trip is viewed as a rite of passage for a wide swath of that age group. Some of those "new to Disney" families have no idea What It Used To Be Like, and don't have that as their comparison point. They still have a great time, and some of them will come back.

I don't see any fundamental reason why they can't keep doing that.

 

[Suger Mag]

We live in such a tiered society now as it is. There was a time that when you booked a stay at Disney, that if you were onsite, you were treated the same at every park no matter what resort you stayed at. The perks were really only at the resort.

i hate to see the direction that Disney has been headed where they are continuing to water down the experience for the value and moderate resort guests. These people are already paying for an expensive hotel compared to ones offsite, and for many of these people, paying for these trips are already a stretch.

i wish we could go back to that. But i get it, everything is all about the dollar these days.

Disney is becoming just another “pay to play” resort.

Umm that is what it always has been... a pay to play. Originally uou paid for each individual ride (E-tickets). I dont buy the they stopped caring line... Disney has always been a company devoted to profit. that has never changed, what has changed is the size and scope of the resorts. When you have so many more guests all clamoring for perks perks perks and free free free, something has to change and you cannot treat everyone equal. You want people to payfor deluxe? then deluxe has to offer an experience worth more than a moderate/budget/offsite. I I also think that so many things have been in flux and chaos since the pandemic and we are in many ways still settling out and defining a new 'normal'

 

[thanxfornoticin]

So many individual mixed messages on the topic - not a surprise! They need to do more for deluxe guests, they need to do more for moderate/value guests; they need more perks to get people to stay on-site, on-site capacity is high and rooms are full; AP/DVC guests should be special and get more perks, AP/DVC folks get too many perks; G+ is worst thing ever, we love G+!!......

Anytime there's a change, certain people complain. Anytime there's not a change, certain people complain. Prices are high, yes (everywhere, by the way). Disney resorts and parks are full (much of the time). Genie+ is a money-maker and a perk people can choose to purchase or not. Any changes coming in the near future are likely to be tweaks to the overall experience, nothing significant. And Disney's been tweaking for a very long time. Another minor change to G+ is likely, but it seems unlikely there will be changes on the scale of some of the comments in this thread!!! But nothing wrong with the opinions!

 

[Brian Noble]

I dont buy the they stopped caring line... Disney has always been a company devoted to profit. that has never changed, what has changed is the size and scope of the resorts.

The other thing that changes is our individual experience with Disney.

Disney is a company that makes money by selling happiness. When most of us started out, the Parks made us very happy. I remember the first time I took my young family to Disneyland. I was the only one who had been to a Disney park before. To put it charitably, my wife was skeptical that we needed to fly across the country for a vacation that was a fair bit more expensive than our usual beach trip. By the end of the week, everything had changed. As we were walking out under the train tracks for the last time, she looked back at the castle with tears in her eyes: "I can't wait to come back." She was shocked by how deeply she felt this.

Several years later, we had our first onsite stay at Old Key West using an Interval exchange. I had been campaigning for an addition to our timeshare portfolio to make these more frequent. Again, she was skeptical. Offsite stays were great vacations, why would we go to all this trouble? About halfway through that first trip, she looked at me and said; "Whatever you have to do to make this happen, do it."

Those moments are not at all unusual, and I bet every one of us has similar stories. We'd have to, or we wouldn't be spending all this time on these boards!

The problem is that it is easy to conflate "Disney makes money by selling happiness" with "Disney wants me personally to be happy." Disney doesn't care if I am happy individually. They care if there are enough people willing to pay for their bolus of dopamine. If I'm one of those people, great! But if I am not one of those people, well, as long as there are enough others, that's fine and Disney won't particularly miss me.

Sure enough, eventually the company does something that makes this painfully obvious. Maybe it's a price increase that hits our pocketbook. Maybe it's a policy change that impacts the way we experience the parks. Maybe we are boycotting because the company "went woke," or instead we are boycotting to pressure the company to divest from Israel. Whatever it is, it suddenly becomes painfully clear that the company does not care about me. And, it's easy to go from that to "the company stopped caring."

They didn't stop caring. They never started.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Umm that is what it always has been... a pay to play. Originally uou paid for each individual ride (E-tickets). I dont buy the they stopped caring line... Disney has always been a company devoted to profit. that has never changed, what has changed is the size and scope of the resorts. When you have so many more guests all clamoring for perks perks perks and free free free, something has to change and you cannot treat everyone equal. You want people to payfor deluxe? then deluxe has to offer an experience worth more than a moderate/budget/offsite. I I also think that so many things have been in flux and chaos since the pandemic and we are in many ways still settling out and defining a new 'normal'

Over the past few years they’ve started to offer different level of access to the parks based on the resort you’re staying at, and I’m starting to see more and more people say they should offer this or that to deluxe guests only. Disney implemented a paid fast pass system which was a part of your ticket price before, and have implemented paid for after hours events that were once Magic Hours, and were a part of your resort stay, no matter level of resort you were at.

Yes, at one time Disney was more of a pay for play, then moved towards the all inclusive style for many years, and have started to move back away from that. All you have to do is look at all of the changes over the past 5 years or so.

 

[Suger Mag]

Over the past few years they’ve started to offer different level of access to the parks based on the resort you’re staying at, and I’m starting to see more and more people say they should offer this or that to deluxe guests only. Disney implemented a paid fast pass system which was a part of your ticket price before, and have implemented paid for after hours events that were once Magic Hours, and were a part of your resort stay, no matter level of resort you were at.

Yes, at one time Disney was more of a pay for play, then moved towards the all inclusive style for many years, and have started to move back away from that. All you have to do is look at all of the changes over the past 5 years or so.

I guess we will just differ in our opinions on how inclusive they were then and are now. I think they have always been stratified. Even within resorts that are deluxe, you have concierge or club level. People love being separated and feeling a little special... VIP lounge, passholder perks... and on and on.

I am DVC since 2009, and so I have always stayed deluxe thus I have a hard time seeing past my DVC bubble. (I am very thankful to have bought in when I did as it has kept me happily going to WDW on a regular basis and relatively indifferent to rack price). But even though there have been a few special things thrown at us DVCers now and then... occasional moonlight magic, discount, exclusive lounge... yes I also feel the twinge of getting less as I feel like I used to get 'more' overall... more extra hours before and after... and generally more overall as a WDW guest with magic express, included magic bands, free fast passes and what not

 

[ChipnDale79]

I guess we will just differ in our opinions on how inclusive they were then and are now. I think they have always been stratified. Even within resorts that are deluxe, you have concierge or club level. People love being separated and feeling a little special... VIP lounge, passholder perks... and on and on.

I am DVC since 2009, and so I have always stayed deluxe thus I have a hard time seeing past my DVC bubble. (I am very thankful to have bought in when I did as it has kept me happily going to WDW on a regular basis and relatively indifferent to rack price). But even though there have been a few special things thrown at us DVCers now and then... occasional moonlight magic, discount, exclusive lounge... yes I also feel the twinge of getting less as I feel like I used to get 'more' overall... more extra hours before and after... and generally more overall as a WDW guest with magic express, included magic bands, free fast passes and what not

Its ok to differ in opinions. our stays are entirely different stays for sure, and thats ok.

There are times i wished i had done DVC, and quite frankly there are times im glad i didnt do DVC.

You're more looking at this from a Deluxe Guest perspective, i'm more looking at this from a value and a moderate guests perspective. We arent going to agree on the tiered approach that disney is taking.

I get it, you've spent a lot money on DVC, so you feel you should get extra perks. I agree that you should, at your resort. I dont feel that way about the parks. For the most part, we pay the same price to access the parks as each other. That's an age old argument here on this forum though.

 

[pindecisive]

You're more looking at this from a Deluxe Guest perspective, i'm more looking at this from a value and a moderate guests perspective. We arent going to agree on the tiered approach that disney is taking.

I get it, you've spent a lot money on DVC, so you feel you should get extra perks. I agree that you should, at your resort. I dont feel that way about the parks. For the most part, we pay the same price to access the parks as each other. That's an age old argument here on this forum though.

There is no situation that I can think of where tickets to anything are 100% the same cost to everyone. Not even Disney - that's why people buy tickets from 3rd party vendors.

Members of Club 33 pay a lot of money to access a certain area of the park regular guests don't have access to. Having a tiered system that restricts park access for money has been around in Disney since 1967. Just because you're ignoring it, doesn't make it untrue.

 

[SL6827]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Disney starts to tier the Deluxe resorts. Would a cash stay at the Grand get better perks than a DVC stay at SSR?

 

[Pinnochio]

Rumor is advanced booking for 3 attractions per day of your stay. 7 days in advance for onsite guests, 3 days in advance for offsite guests. Also rumored that the attractions will be tiered (1 'tier one' advanced booking allowed)

Personally, I'd be thrilled with booking 3 rides before I arrive....let's go

 

[mamaofsix]

Personally, I'd be thrilled with booking 3 rides before I arrive....let's go

Agreed!

 

[Suger Mag]

Its ok to differ in opinions. our stays are entirely different stays for sure, and thats ok.

There are times i wished i had done DVC, and quite frankly there are times im glad i didnt do DVC.

You're more looking at this from a Deluxe Guest perspective, i'm more looking at this from a value and a moderate guests perspective. We arent going to agree on the tiered approach that disney is taking.

I get it, you've spent a lot money on DVC, so you feel you should get extra perks. I agree that you should, at your resort. I dont feel that way about the parks. For the most part, we pay the same price to access the parks as each other. That's an age old argument here on this forum though.

I think everyone staying on property should get perks. Otherwise why stay on property? Do I think that everyone should get the same perks? No, I am ok with different levels of perks, want more? than you pay more. Deluxe... Club.... DVC.. AP passholder... Credit card holders... Club 33... just keep stacking them.

We don't pay the same to access the parks, there are lots of different price points for a single day. A passholder pays a different amount per day than a Florida resident buying a one day vs a guest who comes on a 10 day ticket. So many different options... and prices.

DVC...
we took a trip in 2008 as a one and done (part of a 'grand gathering' multigenerational family trip)....of course we had a fab time, realized we wanted to go back blah blah... started snooping and discovered DVC. I realized pricing it out, that that trip we took cost almost half of what a potential DVC contract would cost. At that time DVC points were still in the $80s/pp, we had the choice of SSR or AKV and chose AKV sight unseen.... best "stupid" thing we ever did... now points are well over $200/pp direct, and it would be a decision out of our financial reach.

 

[mamaofsix]

Its ok to differ in opinions. our stays are entirely different stays for sure, and thats ok.

There are times i wished i had done DVC, and quite frankly there are times im glad i didnt do DVC.

You're more looking at this from a Deluxe Guest perspective, i'm more looking at this from a value and a moderate guests perspective. We arent going to agree on the tiered approach that disney is taking.

I get it, you've spent a lot money on DVC, so you feel you should get extra perks. I agree that you should, at your resort. I dont feel that way about the parks. For the most part, we pay the same price to access the parks as each other. That's an age old argument here on this forum though.

I kind of agree with you here. Deluxe guests pay way more, but they also get much nicer accommodations and resorts to enjoy for that price.

While I do wish to get better park perks when staying deluxe, it's not the reason I book there. I'm mostly paying more to get a deluxe room and resort amenities.

That said - I already get a pretty big parks perk by staying at Grand Floridian: proximity to MK and fireworks viewing. Can't get that at a Value. So, I'm happy with the decision.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I kind of agree with you here. Deluxe guests pay way more, but they also get much nicer accommodations and resorts to enjoy for that price.

While I do wish to get better park perks when staying deluxe, it's not the reason I book there. I'm mostly paying more to get a deluxe room and resort amenities.

That said - I already get a pretty big parks perk by staying at Grand Floridian: proximity to MK and fireworks viewing. Can't get that at a Value. So, I'm happy with the decision.

Small things. You don’t have to walk as far to your bus stop at the parks also LOL.

which, i respect that.

 

[ChipnDale79]

We don't pay the same to access the parks, there are lots of different price points for a single day. A passholder pays a different amount per day than a Florida resident buying a one day vs a guest who comes on a 10 day ticket. So many different options... and prices.

I mean sure, but where you stay onsite isn’t what decides that. That’s the point im trying to make. You should get all the perks at your resort, but from the moment we step foot inside that park, because we both had the chance to pay around the same price to enter that park, we should be treated the same.

It’s ok, we just aren’t going to agree here.

 

[Suger Mag]

I mean sure, but where you stay onsite isn’t what decides that. That’s the point im trying to make. You should get all the perks at your resort, but from the moment we step foot inside that park, because we both had the chance to pay around the same price to enter that park, we should be treated the same.

It’s ok, we just aren’t going to agree here.

not asking you to agree... just discussing things with someone of a different opinion, I am interested in other people's views, does not mean they have to be exactly mine... I apologize if you feel pressured to agree or not, just trying to have a friendly discussion.

so here is a question since you say you want less stratification... .... since an offsite person generally pays the same to get into the parks as onsite guests, then you would be ok with no extra park benefits... prebooking, extra FP perks and what not....no difference for onsite (any level budget to deluxe) and offsite guests when it comes to accessing the parks .... no extra park benefits for anyone staying on property... besides access to transportation, parking, shorter walk to busses etc.?

 

[ChipnDale79]

so here is a question since you say you want less stratification... .... since an offsite person generally pays the same to get into the parks as onsite guests, then you would be ok with no extra park benefits... prebooking, extra FP perks and what not....no difference for onsite (any level budget to deluxe) and offsite guests when it comes to accessing the parks .... no extra park benefits for anyone staying on property... besides access to transportation, parking, shorter walk to busses etc.?

Sure, but that’s going to be a problem for Disney. The issue being that they charge an inflated price for their hotels with the expectation you’re going to get some perks for staying onsite.

if they remove those perks, why would people pay those prices to stay at their hotels?

Case in point, we stayed at Pop last year, we’ve stayed at value resorts the past few years because our kids are now considered Disney adults, and the trips are really a lot more expensive, and we just dont spend a ton of time at our resort.

Some things i dont like about that price point. Walking back to our hotel room, having to walk through designated smoking areas, (that’s a me problem, i’m aware of that), insanely small rooms, uncomfortable beds, lack of sit down dining other than a food court, and a few other things.

I believe all the rooms have finally been redone, but we did stay at an all star resort a number of years ago for a quick one night trip, where we had an issue finding an outlet that something wouldn’t fall out of. Literally we would try to plug our phone into charge, and it wouldn’t stay in the outlet.

I believe our average cost per night last year was upwards of $225-250 a night. For that price point, i can stay at a decent hotel off site, that I would get rewards points for, a much more comfortable bed, and a bigger room. If Disney were to remove all onsite guests perks, why would people stay at value resorts anymore? They wouldn’t, and that would cause a problem for Disney, they have over 9k value hotel rooms.

 

[starlite_]

When you have so many more guests all clamoring for perks perks perks and free free free, something has to change and you cannot treat everyone equal.

This is where you are wrong. Currently they do treat everyone equally. At least in the terms of "skip the line" services. Everyone has the same opportunity to buy Genie+ and LL+. The only requirement is to wake up at 7am if you didn't buy it with tickets and to enter the parks to make LLs reservations. In this case, it is fair for everyone.

I won't get into resorts because it is every guest's choice to pay however much money they want to stay at a fancy hotel or a normal hotel. IMO the hotels shouldn't give anybody an advantage over things like Genie+. If they did THEN that would be pay to play, since the perk would be "wanna get a chance at skipping lines? the only way to do that is to pay ridiculous amounts of money for a fancy disney hotel!".

 

[BrianL]

Perks is a tricky issue. I am generally okay with better perks for guests spending more, onsite vs. offsite, etc. however I don't like perks that would impact other's enjoyment of the parks. For example, extra hours for onsite guests, or even only for deluxe guests, no problem - they get extra time, but nobody is losing anything (assuming they don't shorten hours to an 8 PM normal close or something). However, a Lightning Lane advantage only for certian guests is more problematic becuast there is only so much bandwidth to go around. Reserving some for certian guests means less availability to others, so personally I would avoid things like that. I do agree that a lot of the perks are in the resort itself, having nicer amenities, etc. but there is room for some park extras too.

 

[Suger Mag]

This is where you are wrong. Currently they do treat everyone equally. At least in the terms of "skip the line" services. Everyone has the same opportunity to buy Genie+ and LL+. The only requirement is to wake up at 7am if you didn't buy it with tickets and to enter the parks to make LLs reservations. In this case, it is fair for everyone.

I won't get into resorts because it is every guest's choice to pay however much money they want to stay at a fancy hotel or a normal hotel. IMO the hotels shouldn't give anybody an advantage over things like Genie+. If they did THEN that would be pay to play, since the perk would be "wanna get a chance at skipping lines? the only way to do that is to pay ridiculous amounts of money for a fancy disney hotel!".

yes, but by buying the perk (which used to be free (paper) then you have unequal status over those who didn't. So you buy the perk.. There were a lot of things that USED to be free for everyone that are no longer, and that has caused a lot of complaints from folks.

It used to be anyone with a ticket could go to the turnstiles and get a paper fp as long as they were available still for that ride ... then it got more exclusive if I remember correctly... electronic fastpasses that were restricted to onsite guests? or onsite had first access for a certain window? LOL changed do many times, but I also think I remember where if you had a certain tier of resort status, then you got extra FP pre-booking slots... then covid and no FP of any kind,.. and now anyone can get free Genie suggestions or you can pay to play for Genie+/ILL. I happen to like this current system the best because it works for me and I can budget the costs... do I like paying, no..,. do I like not waiting? yes, so it is worth it for me.

There are so many guests... onsite and offsite, that sadly I think offering a free ride service is not financially solvent, not that I desire to have exclusivity. I just want to ride my favorite rides with the least hassle.