*Confirmed* G+ Changes to Advanced Lightning Lane

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

120mins to 210mins sure was and yes that was sprinkled with occasional 300min waits. I think the highest we personally saw was 315mins - 5 1/4 hours

On site Day 3 was our usual preselected FOP FP+. I really can’t remember ever needing 4.

We always hit AK early and for the am hours the bridge to Africa would be blocked with FoP line. That was typical. It actually got worse in the years after opening.

I didn't debate that it got high waits. I debated your conviction that it was 3-5 hours without a FP. When it first opened it was 4-5hours but it was a brand new attraction and arguably the best at WDW at that time. But not on the daily.

People in the know were riding FoP twice a day and the unfamiliar waited in 3-5 hour lines.

For context that's what you said above.

As far as the line yes that was typical it would be far out. It was like that in May 2022 right when the park opened (although we waited 1 hour). But I assure you just because that line was long did not mean those standing in it were waiting 3-5 hours even back in FP+ days as something that just was what it was on the daily. Some queues are just like that and with FP even as much as they snaked around that thing it was still not fully designed the best plus you add in people wanting to take in the queue itself and when you're in the outside portion that includes Pandora land itself.

In addition Disney has always inflated times (usually the worst at end of evening). They were quite bad on our 2017 trip and bad still on our 2022 trip and I kept a very detailed list of when we entered the line with the majority of the time being quite off sometimes the wait was half what it said. Sometimes the posted wait time was worse than it stated (I experienced that on Navi a few times) but mostly wait times were not quite accurate. In 2017 I have it listed that the SB was posted at 105 mins but the attendant thought it was more around 85 and in hindsight I wish we would have gone on it then. Instead we waited to ride it for the first time with our FP. Maybe those 20 mins doesn't sound like much but it can represent a lot in terms of people you see waiting in line or if you're just looking on the app (in the parks or at home).

Guest feedback is paramount at that point, not just looking at the app or what the sign says. For FOP if it says 60-80mins for SB I believe that to be much more accurate especially nowadays now that the attraction is 6 years old and needs a refurb really bad to recalibrate it (which was evident a few years after it opened).

By the end of FP+ it was very easy to pick up FoP at the ~1pm and ~3pm drop times with more and more people becoming aware of it. We did it for 3 or 4 trips. It was crazy to see the line all the way down to Africa 210+mins while we sat eating lunch and picking up FP#2 for within the next hour or two. Just had to have your initial 3 FPs used by that point or wait for 3pm.

*eta - we never pushed to get the 3rd at 3pm but likely could’ve.

I'm not disbelieving your experience just your generalization that that was how it was. There were a mountain of threads that have long since been buried on the DIS discussing FOP and its availability including day of some people could get it but by in large many couldn't get more than that one pre-booked one, some may have lucked out on another day but on the same day much harder. And if you're talking about at the end of FP+ you're also talking about a specific time in place.

I thought I was agreeing with you As what you pointed out was an important aspect.

Yeah I understood that . It was that you took my point to be something different than I was getting at in relation to the question a poster asked when you added in about FOP. What attraction you ended up being able to re-ride wasn't a given along with people having different interests too. I was just pointing out when a poster asked what a difference was was that you could have that opportunity to re-ride a ride if you wanted to with a FP with Genie+ you are unable to no matter what because this is a prohibited action.

On a side note does anyone wish that Disney would send park people (not executives but people who actually are in the theme parks more frequently) to other theme parks around the nation to observe how they do it? Cuz I feel like Disney, no matter how unique you try to make WDW and DL sound, they can't seem to get a system down without mucking it up even more with each iteration . Like I pointed out in my first comment from 2011 to 2022 which is 11 years I dealt with 4 different systems between two of their theme parks when other parks have had the same system for decades or haven't touched it since it was introduced.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I don't know that you are rare.

Aside from tickets we can control what we spend. Disney tracks all we spend and I think they have felt the pinch, that they caused. They are now offering deep discounts to get folks in to their hotels. Once in then guests spend on site. All those wide spread price increases they did about a month ago are filling the gaps where guests have stopped spending. The food and beverage ones will add up very quickly for Disney while seeming minimal for guests. No one really tracks merchandise costs but guaranteed they have been nickel and dimed up. Let's not forget when Chapek said "average guest spending is up" which was a word play, "spending" was up because costs are up.

We were there right after the price increase on the smaller things.

We’ve been going for a long time, we took a year and a half away from Disney prior to this trip. I generally know what I’m getting into when we go price wise. To say i was shocked by the cost of snacks and some souvenirs, is an understatement.

Example, our averages cost of snacks for 4 of us was around $36 if we all got something at the same time. That’s a lot.

i wanted to buy a deck of cards from the fort, $15 for a deck of cards. No. Just no.


I also wanted to buy a spare tire cover from the fort for our camper, i thought i was going to spend about $35-40 one, they were $80. we bought very little this time.

this trip next year im planning, im really starting to balk at the price.

I’m going to do everything i can to not increase my budget. If Disney wants more money for something, then it’s going to come out of my spending money for Disney.

 

[Disneychick13]

The main two things that I would change about G+ would be being able to select a time (as opposed to whatever time is available at the moment) and then having the time/ride being available when you actually click on it! I hate so much when you think you have snagged a ride/time and then “poof” it’s gone!

The unfortunate fact is that they cannot make a good system unless it is limited. And making the system limited doesn’t involve cost as much as it involves actually setting a number (which will have to be much lower than whatever number they sell now) that will restrict how many people actually use it, making the LL move faster and in turn the stand by lane will too. The obvious way to do that is dramatically increasing the price (thereby limiting the number of people who are actually willing to pay for it, so it won’t be sold out in minutes every day). They have to reduce the number of people using the system. It’s really as simple as that. You would have thought by now, utilizing at this point 3 different systems, Disney would have figured it out. But, alas, they have not and will continue to fail (after fail after fail) at this endeavor.

All that being said, I will continue to pay for whatever “shorten your line” system that have in place and just pack my patience and my portable charger.

 

[AprilsZoo]

I agree with a higher price. It would be better for those who purchase AND for standby. Right now standby lines are too long because of the loading priority for lighting lane. And maybe there needs to be a combo. One expensive version where you simply get in line (maybe once per ride and maybe unlimited) if you purchased this version… like Universal. Resort guests get this discounted. And, a less expensive version where you get three rides per day, which can be reserved in advance of your trip. Resort guests get this for free. Simplify all the rules. Eliminate the 7 am bs. Etc.

Doesn’t one of the overseas parks offer a Universal-like system?

This eliminates the need to plan in advance or getting up at 7 am. This allows more flexibility in your day without fear the 3 in advance bookings having taken most the time slots like before. Maybe one in advance at 7 am or maybe none until you scan in to the park.

I would have gladly paid for the old FP+ MINUS the advance bookings. It makes if more fair, more functional and more successful.

At Disneyland/DCA no one starts using G+ until they have scanned into the park. Whether that is rope drop or later depends on when you get there. But it’s a level playing field for all.

Disney Hotel guests get the benefit of not having to take transport to the parks before getting in line. They can enter through the GCH entrance, or thru the monorail entrance for quicker access. That’s it. That’s their big perk as far as G+ goes. Still means you need to be a rope dropper for greatest choice.

Idk why WDW can’t also use the same system of LL selections begins when you enter the park.

 

[soniam]

Doesn’t one of the overseas parks offer a Universal-like system?

Maybe Paris but not included with hotel, but Japan doesn’t and I don’t think Shanghai either. Universal Japan doesn’t even offer the same as UO. Hollywood does, but it’s not offered as a hotel benefit. USJ has FP packages that include a certain set of rides that you can buy, but none include every or even most rides.

 

[Smugpugmug]

The unfortunate fact is that they cannot make a good system unless it is limited. And making the system limited doesn’t involve cost as much as it involves actually setting a number (which will have to be much lower than whatever number they sell now) that will restrict how many people actually use it, making the LL move faster and in turn the stand by lane will too. The obvious way to do that is dramatically increasing the price (thereby limiting the number of people who are actually willing to pay for it, so it won’t be sold out in minutes every day). They have to reduce the number of people using the system. It’s really as simple as that. You would have thought by now, utilizing at this point 3 different systems, Disney would have figured it out. But, alas, they have not and will continue to fail (after fail after fail) at this endeavor.

I agree. For a system that involves skipping lines to work, someone needs to be excluded. If everyone is super, no one is. And Disney trained their guests that all of them are super with free Fastpass (including myself, by the way!)

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree. For a system that involves skipping lines to work, someone needs to be excluded. If everyone is super, no one is. And Disney trained their guests that all of them are super with free Fastpass (including myself, by the way!)

I agree with what you are saying. There is also the other issue if they exclude some guests. There would be quite a few that would stop going if they couldn't skip lines anymore. Families with young children and grandparents would stop going.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I agree with what you are saying. There is also the other issue if they exclude some guests. There would be quite a few that would stop going if they couldn't skip lines anymore. Families with young children and grandparents would stop going.

I wouldn't even blame those people tbh. I just can't imagine a scenario where every guest that scanned into the turnstiles had the ability to skip lines. The queues would turn into Standby Line #1 and Standby Line #2.

 

[AprilsZoo]

Maybe Paris but not included with hotel, but Japan doesn’t and I don’t think Shanghai either. Universal Japan doesn’t even offer the same as UO. Hollywood does, but it’s not offered as a hotel benefit. USJ has FP packages that include a certain set of rides that you can buy, but none include every or even most rides.

I meant one of the overseas Disney parks. Sorry, I was unclear.

 

[pindecisive]

I'd like to see:

Genie+ being included for parties staying onsite.

ADRs for disney fine dining being limited to Genie+. We're paying to get out of the line for rides, let us pay to be able to reserve a table at Blue Bayou.

Meet and greet reservations. We should be able to reserve a spot to see a character just like a ride.

 

[soniam]

I meant one of the overseas Disney parks. Sorry, I was unclear.

I did discuss the overseas Disney parks. I mentioned Paris, Japan, and Shanghai. I also mentioned the Universal parks as comparison.

 

[mamaofsix]

FP+ system was simple, easy to book, easy to change, worked quickly and was simple to refresh and honestly aside from the advance bookings easy to be successful all day long. In seconds we had our next time. I get to plan my day, not Disney.

Genie+, while improved, is clunky, less flexible, sometimes taking several steps to get where you want to be (if at all) and the stacking allows for hoarding of times making available disappear fast. Even with paying for the service we usually get many less return times than we did with the Free FP+ - which that alone reduces the value of the service. I am paying a substantial sum for less service that Disney wants to decide my day instead of me.

All you have to do is look around now that Genie+ exists and see Guests everywhere with their noses buried in their phones, not watching where they are walking. FP+ you picked a time while in line for your next ride and good to go. Now you spend too much time maneuvering through a over bulky bulky app. They have added a whole layer of work to the park day.

More changes coming? UGH.



We all have our own opinions. I think G+ is an inferior product that they have guests paying for. Good for Disney to make people think that because you are now paying it is somehow a better product.

I hope everyone is throwing them the extra $20-30 per day per person on top of everything else. I'm all about Disney making as much money. And yes we do get Genie+ about half our days BUT I take that money out of our TS fund.


Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

Did folks really think they were going to drop park reservations without something else to control how many people were going in each park? How were they going to fill up AK which has very low attendance right now? How were they going to fill EPCOT all day, the huge abyss of land? Dumbest thing they did was reduce cancel time on ADR, that was part of keeping some parks full.

There will always be a consequence to every gift. We don't know how this will play out we are working on info not from Disney. And as they have shown the last few months on any given day the rules and costs will change. How fun for folks spending the big bucks to constantly adjust their expectations, budget and plan.

Exactly. FP+ was the way Disney knew how to staff each park on any particular day - it gave them the exact same information that park reservations do now. This is why I think the new advanced selection Genie+ will be available in January, in time for the end of park reservations.

 

[AprilsZoo]

I did discuss the overseas Disney parks. I mentioned Paris, Japan, and Shanghai. I also mentioned the Universal parks as comparison.

Guess I need to read clearer too. Not batting 1000 today.

 

[AprilsZoo]

I'd like to see:

Genie+ being included for parties staying onsite.

ADRs for disney fine dining being limited to Genie+. We're paying to get out of the line for rides, let us pay to be able to reserve a table at Blue Bayou.

Meet and greet reservations. We should be able to reserve a spot to see a character just like a ride.

They have way, way too many on site guests for them ever to do free G+ for all guests. Maybe they could run a promo that includes G+ for deluxe guests.

 

[soniam]

Guess I need to read clearer too. Not batting 1000 today.

I’m never batting a thousand

 

[AprilsZoo]

I’m never batting a thousand

Me either… but it’s nice to have *something* to aim for.

 

[mamaofsix]

They have way, way too many on site guests for them ever to do free G+ for all guests. Maybe they could run a promo that includes G+ for deluxe guests.

Free for deluxe guests would be awesome, but there are also a lot of deluxe hotels. I could see them maybe doing a discount on G+ for deluxe guests - or offering them 1 extra advanced selection (total of 4 instead of 3) or something like that.

Or, maybe deluxe guests could book further ahead (10 days vs. 7 days for other hotel guests)?

But not holding my breath.

 

[Suger Mag]

Free for deluxe guests would be awesome, but there are also a lot of deluxe hotels. I could see them maybe doing a discount on G+ for deluxe guests - or offering them 1 extra advanced selection (total of 4 instead of 3) or something like that.

Or, maybe deluxe guests could book further ahead (10 days vs. 7 days for other hotel guests)?

But not holding my breath.

I do think we are going to see some tiering. Deluxe/Mod/Budget/Offsite.... I think they need to. Right now there is not as much incentive to staying on site as there has been in the past. I think they need to woo the deluxe guests with more perks and still give some advantages to satisfy the rest of the onsite visitors. Make staying on property worth more than it is.

 

[mamaofsix]

I do think we are going to see some tiering. Deluxe/Mod/Budget/Offsite.... I think they need to. Right now there is not as much incentive to staying on site as there has been in the past. I think they need to woo the deluxe guests with more perks and still give some advantages to satisfy the rest of the onsite visitors. Make staying on property worth more than it is.

I completely agree. They need to do something. But, will they? It seems like they've made some pretty silly business decisions lately.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I do think we are going to see some tiering. Deluxe/Mod/Budget/Offsite.... I think they need to. Right now there is not as much incentive to staying on site as there has been in the past. I think they need to woo the deluxe guests with more perks and still give some advantages to satisfy the rest of the onsite visitors. Make staying on property worth more than it is.

We live in such a tiered society now as it is. There was a time that when you booked a stay at Disney, that if you were onsite, you were treated the same at every park no matter what resort you stayed at. The perks were really only at the resort.

i hate to see the direction that Disney has been headed where they are continuing to water down the experience for the value and moderate resort guests. These people are already paying for an expensive hotel compared to ones offsite, and for many of these people, paying for these trips are already a stretch.

i wish we could go back to that. But i get it, everything is all about the dollar these days.

Disney is becoming just another “pay to play” resort.