Concerned for safety of child down the street. DCFS? Help?

Hi! :wave:

I could not let something like this go. I would definitely call DCF and advise them what you have been witnessing. There is no reason why your child should be outside by himself and in those conditions. You are thinking of the safety of the child - what if nothing is done....hopefully he will be ok, but what if.....I say don't take that chance. Make the call :wizard:
 
Hi

I am a child protection worker with the Children's Aid Society here in Canada.

Everyone here has a duty to report to Child Welfare if they suspect a child is at risk. You don't even have to have proof-just a suspicion. There's a new campaign called "use your voice" and I believe a website to this effect.

I don't know what your laws are, but I would not just leave it - call child welfare asap - child protection issues that I can see from your e-mail alone are lack of supervision and neglect.

In my long experience with our agency (I've been there 12 years) usually when children are neglected there are other protection issues as well such as mental illness and/or drug use. In Canada it is a criminal offence to leave a child under the age of 10 unsupervised.

You never know if this mother has a previous child welfare history - here we have a way to check that as well - Not all reports to CAS result in apprehensions, in fact most children are serviced in their home with adequate supports from the community.

If you have additional questions, please don't hesitate to pm me.

Take care and best of luck to you.

Remember to "use your voice" to help those that don't have one

Tink&Cinderella
 
I was always told by my brothers who are in law enforcement that if you are at all concerned with the safety of a child/children you NEED to call in. The disturbing things that you see are most likely only the tip of the iceberg...good luck and bless you for doing something about it!
 
I really, really think you should go talk with the parent/caregiver over calling authorities. Maybe they are from another country where it is substantially warmer and they think kids are *supposed* to play outside in very little clothing! They clearly need to take care of this little boy better, but some gentle prodding can often do much more good than calling the police. Aren't these your neighbors anyway? Do you really not know them at all?

Putting a family at risk with so little information seems a bit harsh to me.
 

Rowlf said:
I really, really think you should go talk with the parent/caregiver over calling authorities. Maybe they are from another country where it is substantially warmer and they think kids are *supposed* to play outside in very little clothing! They clearly need to take care of this little boy better, but some gentle prodding can often do much more good than calling the police. Aren't these your neighbors anyway? Do you really not know them at all?

Putting a family at risk with so little information seems a bit harsh to me.

I'm not flaming at all, because everyone is entitled to their opinion, but my personal opinion is (from being a former Social Worker)...

I don't agree that reporting what you see to the appropriate authorities is "putting a family at risk". The authorities will only investigate if they feel there is a legitimate concern, and the child will not be taken away unless an investigation turns up more than what the OP has witnessed. I know everyone has heard of worst case scenario stories where children are taken away for no reason, but I believe that is actually very, very, very rare - it happens more frequently that a child is truly at risk and people ignore it because they don't want to get involved. I feel that the child running around unsupervised is a concern and the fact that he is not dressed appropriately for the weather adds to that concern. I feel that if your instinct causes you to question whether you should report a situation involving a child, then you should report it (I mean issues involving a child's safety and well being, not just a difference of opinion on the best way to parent a child). BUT - make sure to be truthful about what caused you to be concerned and don't exaggerate the situation. Then the professionals can be the ones who decide how to handle the situation - and you won't have to deal with the guilt of not doing anything if the situation does turn out to be serious.

When it comes to the welfare of a child, I will always choose to err on the side of caution.
 
Shagley said:
I'm not flaming at all, because everyone is entitled to their opinion, but my personal opinion is (from being a former Social Worker)...

I don't agree that reporting what you see to the appropriate authorities is "putting a family at risk". The authorities will only investigate if they feel there is a legitimate concern, and the child will not be taken away unless an investigation turns up more than what the OP has witnessed. I know everyone has heard of worst case scenario stories where children are taken away for no reason, but I believe that is actually very, very, very rare - it happens more frequently that a child is truly at risk and people ignore it because they don't want to get involved. I feel that the child running around unsupervised is a concern and the fact that he is not dressed appropriately for the weather adds to that concern. I feel that if your instinct causes you to question whether you should report a situation involving a child, then you should report it (I mean issues involving a child's safety and well being, not just a difference of opinion on the best way to parent a child). BUT - make sure to be truthful about what caused you to be concerned and don't exaggerate the situation. Then the professionals can be the ones who decide how to handle the situation - and you won't have to deal with the guilt of not doing anything if the situation does turn out to be serious.

When it comes to the welfare of a child, I will always choose to err on the side of caution.


Shagley as a former social worker I am guessing you did see many cases that involvment didn't make things better. I know I have seen my fair share. (sometimes there is only so much you can do to make things better, take them out of danger, but scare them for life with the consequces of not being with family..... sometimes the danage was too much, too long) I know in school they teach us all the idea situations and programs, (familes 1st programs, in home help instead of removeal ect...) but it seems in relaity those don't happen as much outside of school. Finding proper foster care help doesn't always happen. Maybe I just worked in a really hard area (inner city.)

It is hard to know really what will happen, so that is why getting involved really can be scary. No one wants to do more harm and help. The laws say when it in doubt report and let the professionals acess and see what the situation calls for. (as you mentioned.) Making the call doesn't put the family at risk, the situation does.

I still think the discribed situation is questionable, but worth looking into. Investiation may find out more. For example, maybe the kid has sensory intergration issues (like PDD or autism) that would cause him not to like to wear cothes. If this is the case having CPS involved they should be able to get the parents help in dealing with this. Maybe they don't have the approprate cothes, again CPS could help. It may or may not be what it seems from the surface. I know with many austic children it looks like they are being abused, when really it is the family that is by the child. (just an example.)

I also agree with Rowlf, as I said before getting to know the family better may help also, communities can be a great source of support and help, more then insitutions sometimes.
 
Just a suggestion maybe next time you see him outside in inappropriate apparel you could walk him back to his house and say something like "Gee little so and so must have slipped out.... probably should get some clothes on first huh?" nothing too confrontational but let Mom know that people are watching and care about her son even if she doesn't
If continues then call DSS
 
kanga24roos said:
Just a suggestion maybe next time you see him outside in inappropriate apparel you could walk him back to his house and say something like "Gee little so and so must have slipped out.... probably should get some clothes on first huh?" nothing too confrontational but let Mom know that people are watching and care about her son even if she doesn't
If continues then call DSS


I agree..i think that would have been my first step as well. Good Luck. :grouphug:
 
Ater re-reading my message from the other night, I realized my message may have come across as Holier than Thou - and that is not how I meant it. I really think everyone has great suggestions for the OP - and every opinion on how to handle the situation makes a lot of sense. I do believe that unless we personally witness any situation, it is difficult to make a judgement on how it should be handled.

OP - I think by even being concerned about this child, it shows that you are a caring person. You have received a lot of good advice from this thread, and I am sure whatever you decide to do will be the correct decision.

Shelley
 
I'm truly concerned and would have much more to say on the subject if we were meeting face-to-face, but suffice it to say that unless you see clear signs of abuse (bruises) or a severe case of neglectful endangerment (soiled underwear, etc.) DO NOT call the police and DO NOT get DCFS involved! No good will ever come of rumormongering while living in an ivory tower!!

Have you every thought about getting the neighborhood involved to help watch out for the kid? Or brought clothes to his house or asked if he would like to try some clothes on? Maybe they just don't have the money to afford clothes or maybe the kid just likes running around without clothes on (most kids do for a time)...it's not going to scar him for life as he'll undoubtedly grow out of it (70's degrees is not that cold). And even though we adults understand how important shoes are, I think most of us know kids from when we were growing up that very rarely wore shoes even outside until they went to school; again to very little detriment to their later development.

If you're that concerned, your time would be much better spent at the local dept. store than at the police station. If you don't have the money, ask a local church if they can help. I guess gone are the days when a stressed out mother could rely on her neighbors for support...even if she did appear to be tough on the outside. Is the boy demonizing the street? Have your children ever played with him?

I realize this post might sound a little harsh, but my jaw was dropping when I was reading some of the other posts...are we so detached from our neighborhood these days that we have to rely on the police and a federal agency to raise our children? Might as well force every kid to a children's home if the parents don't make at least $80,000 a year as obviously they can't raise a family correctly.

-R
 
Lord Fantasius said:
I'm truly concerned and would have much more to say on the subject if we were meeting face-to-face, but suffice it to say that unless you see clear signs of abuse (bruises) or a severe case of neglectful endangerment (soiled underwear, etc.) DO NOT call the police and DO NOT get DCFS involved! No good will ever come of rumormongering while living in an ivory tower!!

Have you every thought about getting the neighborhood involved to help watch out for the kid? Or brought clothes to his house or asked if he would like to try some clothes on? Maybe they just don't have the money to afford clothes or maybe the kid just likes running around without clothes on (most kids do for a time)...it's not going to scar him for life as he'll undoubtedly grow out of it (70's degrees is not that cold). And even though we adults understand how important shoes are, I think most of us know kids from when we were growing up that very rarely wore shoes even outside until they went to school; again to very little detriment to their later development.

If you're that concerned, your time would be much better spent at the local dept. store than at the police station. If you don't have the money, ask a local church if they can help. I guess gone are the days when a stressed out mother could rely on her neighbors for support...even if she did appear to be tough on the outside. Is the boy demonizing the street? Have your children ever played with him?

I realize this post might sound a little harsh, but my jaw was dropping when I was reading some of the other posts...are we so detached from our neighborhood these days that we have to rely on the police and a federal agency to raise our children? Might as well force every kid to a children's home if the parents don't make at least $80,000 a year as obviously they can't raise a family correctly.

-R

I honestly did not mean to start a debate here. My question was purely out of concern for this little guy. Everyone's opinions here have been taken into account and I've thought the situation over in great depth. Like I posted earlier, I alerted the police, etc. I have done nothing since as I have been waiting to see what happens. So far the little boy has only been seen out once - he at least had some shorts on this time and it's warmer (actually in the 70s this week. And as soon as I saw him, his mom came outside looking for him which is the first time I've seen her outside looking for him in awhile so maybe she took the hint without any kind of personal interaction from me.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not totally against personal rebuke, but this lady is kind of known as a tough character so I would like to stay as anonymous in all this as is possible. However, thanks to everyone's wonderful advice, if I see him out anymore by himself I will try to say something, although I will have to go alone without him becaus since I "caught" him the other day he rides away from me as soon as he sees me.

Lord Fantasius - I have to admit that your post took me COMPLETELY off guard. I would like to clear a few things up so that I may understand your post completely. First of all, what did you mean when you said you would have more to say face to face? As far as outward and obvious signs of abuse I would have to say that even pushing everything else aside, no matter the clothes, shoes, etc NO child his age should EVER be outside by himself no matter what - especially riding his bike over a block away from his house - especially since there is a school a half block down and I neglected to put in my original post that there is a highway that his home is just one house away from - pretty scary stuff. If that's not "neglect" then I'm MUCH more overbearing that I think I am compared to other parents.

And if you had been reading my originally post it was NOT even close to the 70s the day I saw him. The temp when I saw him outside the first time was right at 62 or 63 degrees and VERY windy. I know it's not freezing or anything, but definitely cold enough that he HAD to have been chilly (heck, he even told me he was).

I have taken into consideration all the possibilities mentioned on here from him getting out without him mom knowing, to autism, etc and will keep them in mind in my future interactions with both him, his mom and the rest of our neighbors.

Thanks again everyone for your VERY helpful advice. I maintain that there was something VERY wrong about the situation since I saw it first hand but I will do nothing else unless I see further occurences and learn more about the situation.

Thanks!!! :grouphug:
 
tommygirl79 - yes, my post was meant to be harsh and possibly severe, but not in a meanhearted-way if you can understand that. Anyways, from your posts, this is what we know, or at least can figure...

1) you state that the 4-yr boy has been seen outside in his diaper/underwear the entire summer...since you don't mention anything about over the winter or early spring, this tells me either the family just moved in at the beginning of the summer or this has just started happening, but since you don't mention having known the kids from before, my assumption is that they just moved in a few months ago;

2) you state that you, and they, live down the street from an elementary school; we can then probably also assume that this isn't just happenstance so that the kids can have a safe place to play and that she/you wouldn't have the expense of driving them to school, ergo, she doesn't have alot of disposable income; also, being that close to a school means your street has a reduced speed limit, another consideration for letting your kids play outside;

3) you don't mention a father or ever meeting him; ergo, we're probably talking a single mom, or one just on the edge of becoming a single mom; this naturally leads to...

4) a tough women who really doesn't want neighbors poking into her business on a casual basis;

5) she didn't answer the door when the police arrived; from this we can reasonably assume that she's from a neighborhood, culture or background where authority figures were very rarely friendly, or that she doesn't trust since she would assume they would treat her as guilty until proven innocent (the basic DCFS scenario);

6) since you have never seen her outside with her children, she's either physically exhausted (either due to a medical condition or just because she's busy doing everything else around the house) or mentally exhausted during the day and unable to keep up with two young children, or she just doesn't care...however, no matter how hard of mother I've found, it is extremely rare that I've ever run across one that blatantly doesn't care about her children...ergo, she's probably exhausted during the day and collapses at night; and the fact that she's not outside only means she's not outside...I'm assuming her house has windows as well?

7) since it appears the children aren't out all night, she, or someone else is there to put them to bed and make sure they have a different set of clean clothes the next (even if it is just white underwear); if she is home at night, she undoubtedly collapses into bed, and if she has to work at night, you can guess when she sleeps;

8) starting to piece this together, she's more than likely living on alimony, welfare, or possibly both, and possibly minimun wage; in any case, if she is a single mother, even keeping house for two kids would be beyond my limits...I truly don't know how single parents do it even with one kid;

9) she's also probably embarressed or slightly ashamed (if we can use those terms these days) and purposefully avoids socialization, which means she either has her own support network from before or an extended family, or she's doing without any support network, however, individuals invariably have some network mechanism so we can assume they are at a distance and she really doesn't trust her new neighbors...can't blame her if after three months the new nieghbors call the police for child endangerment;

10) since you didn't mention the daughter wasn't not wearing clothes, I'm assuming she was; ergo, if one child has some clothes, we can almost trust that the boy has some clothes in his closet; now why he wasn't wearing any could be a no. of reasons but the two most likely are: a) his mom doesn't want him to wear clothes, which I think is hardly the case since the daughter is; or b) he doesn't like wearing clothes (very typical of a boy that age); the fact that he said he was cold, doesn't really negate (b).

11) and even though you asked the boy if he was cold, you failed to ask why he wasn't wearing any clothes which would have told you much; however, while low 60's might feel cold to you and could possibly as well for him, we swim in 60-degree weather up here...are you sure they're not from Alaska, Minnesota, or Canada?

12) surprisingly, numerous studies have shown that there is absolutely no correlation between sickness and outside temperature...it's an old wives tale...additionally, a normal active child will not get hypothermia from 60-degree weather; since he's obviously not outside at night when it's that cold, we're left with him being active outside during the day...question, is he sick all the time...sneezing, coughing, wheezing? Since you don't mention those indicators, he's probably healthier than a lot of us;

13) resultingly, the only real concern that's left is the highway that's close by; o.k., that could be scary...is there an embankment? Is it raised, or just have a guardrail between the next-door house and the highway? I know it's not completely the same but I grew up one house away from a major 4-lane thoroughfare that I remember even now that my mom put the fear of death in me as young as I can remember if I ever went close to that street...could his mother have done the same?

You also state you have children, which means more than one, and that you were picking them up from church after a mom's day out, which means they are too young to stay at home by themselves. O.k., here's your Christian challenge for you...why not invite her to your next mother's day out? Or, since children are the best evangelists, have your children ask her children to join them so their mom can have a little rest during the day.

Like I said, way too much to go into when not face-to-face, that's all I meant be it. For point of reference my BIL is a social worker and he will be the first to state that over half the cases on his desk should not be there as they are the result of trivial "concerns" being called in by neighbors who want to stay anonymous. I still think unless we went Chinese-style mass orphanages it's up to use to help our neighbors, not the federal government!

-R
 
Tommygirl79 I think you did the right thing. No one can judge you for calling the police. Only you were there and you have to trust you instincts. How can Lord Fantasia just simply turn the other way and make assumptions about a situation she did not experience. What did she want you to do? :confused3 Wait untill the child got ran over or abducted. Or maybe you should have waited untill mid December :cold: when it was snowing and the boy was out in his underwear to call the Police. I don't care how tired the mother is there is NO excuse for a child that young to be out all day in nothing but underwear without ADULT supervision (that does not mean his older sister). The problem with neighbor's today is not that they don't care about each other it's that neighbors like Lord Fantasia start to belittle, second guess and point fingers. When neighbors that care like Tommygirl79 do the right thing!!
Lets hope and pray this little boy stays safe and warm!!!
 
D3K said:
Tommygirl79 I think you did the right thing. No one can judge you for calling the police. Only you were there and you have to trust you instincts. How can Lord Fantasia just simply turn the other way and make assumptions about a situation she did not experience. What did she want you to do? :confused3 Wait untill the child got ran over or abducted. Or maybe you should have waited untill mid December :cold: when it was snowing and the boy was out in his underwear to call the Police. I don't care how tired the mother is there is NO excuse for a child that young to be out all day in nothing but underwear without ADULT supervision (that does not mean his older sister). The problem with neighbor's today is not that they don't care about each other it's that neighbors like Lord Fantasia start to belittle, second guess and point fingers. When neighbors that care like Tommygirl79 do the right thing!!
Lets hope and pray this little boy stays safe and warm!!!

So far this thread has been about the best interst of the child and what the OP should do. Let's try to keep it focused on that and start heading down a path of "were right, you are wrong, they don't care." pointing.

There is a variety of opinons presented, with a vareity of different views on how best to help the family. I think everyone has had interesting veiw points that can help the OP detrimine what course she wants to take.
 
I agree with you, but I think that Lord Fantasia was to hard on Tommygirl79. Tommygirl was just trying to do what was best for this little boy.
 
D3K said:
I agree with you, but I think that Lord Fantasia was to hard on Tommygirl79. Tommygirl was just trying to do what was best for this little boy.

I don't think we should be hard on the OP, or that the OP has done anything wrong. I think tommygirl is looking in the childs best interest, but Lord Fantaisa was pointing out another view about what the childs best interest MAY be. All opinions and sepcuation (from all of us) at this point.

Lord Fantasisa point was strong, but I think she did so to conteract some of the other strong points on this thread. Things like this can start a "band wagon" effect and oposeing views can help keep the topic centered. It is other view point that hadn't been as presented on this topic so far. I think she made some very vaild points (mostly that we don't know what the mother was dealing with and being sympathic can be more helpful then being judgmental when dealing with parents. )

Anyway let's all do our best to be civil and try to remain focused on the best interest of the child and what the OP can do to help situation (if any.) :)
 
Calling the police for what was stated is certainly not the way I would have gone. Getting the state involved is a last case scenario....not the first thing I would think of. That wouldn't fly in my neighborhood at all.

You don't hear many happy stories about getting the kids involved in the system. They go from one foster home to the next.

I thought the poster who stated the their BIL was a social worker had a important statement to make: Many of the claims were unfounded! Hope your child never sneaks out in his undies (Mine LOVES to do this) in the fall, and your neighbors decide to call DCFS on YOU instead of just speaking to you.
 
I am just tying to post my point of views. My kids are 12 and 8 and not once have my kids been out in their undies (with or without my knowledge). You guys are talking about starting a band wagon. that's a bit extreme. but I must say that I feel like I am being attacked just for posting how I feel. I respect everyone's opinion just as I expect everyone to respect mine. You guys are so busy flaming me that you forgot that this is about a little boy.
 
By the way I also agree with JodiFla I would have spoken with the mother first before taking any other action. I would have knocked on her door and told her very nicely that I was not sure if she was aware that her son was outside playing in his undies, and I would have discretly mentioned that its was cold outside as I left.
 
Actually, my point is EXACTLY the little boy, and the damage that may come to him from being taken from his mother.

Not sure when being out in your undies as a toddler or riding your bike became a state offense.
 











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