Concerned for safety of child down the street. DCFS? Help?

[allaboutmm]

As a teacher in Ma. and I am mandated by the state to report any neglect or abuse of a child. I pretty sure this would come across as neglect? IMO....3 yr old outside more than once w/o an adult, even if it is Mary Poppins Lane-is not safe( for many reasons). And I do think he should have more on than a diaper (again, many reasons) .Reguardless if he is from a single family unit or 2 parent unit, a parent can take time out of their busy day to put clothing on him, and watch him play outside for an hour.We are all busy,and tired, it's called being a parent!!! Tommygirl79, thank goodness it was you who found him, and helped him and not some wacko!!! So I think you made the right choice!

Remember this is just my opinion....I am a very quiet person, and keep my mouth shut, but when it comes to children..LOOK OUT! Should I get my flame suit on now?

 

[jodifla]

As a teacher in Ma. and I am mandated by the state to report any neglect or abuse of a child. I pretty sure this would come across as neglect? IMO....3 yr old outside more than once w/o an adult, even if it is Mary Poppins Lane-is not safe( for many reasons). And I do think he should have more on than a diaper (again, many reasons) .Reguardless if he is from a single family unit or 2 parent unit, a parent can take time out of their busy day to put clothing on him, and watch him play outside for an hour.We are all busy,and tired, it's called being a parent!!! Tommygirl79, thank goodness it was you who found him, and helped him and not some wacko!!! So I think you made the right choice!

Remember this is just my opinion....I am a very quiet person, and keep my mouth shut, but when it comes to children..LOOK OUT! Should I get my flame suit on now?

3 year old outside is abuse? Sorry, I don't think so. Maybe not the best policy, but I think throwing around the term ABUSE is pretty strong. There are many homes in my neighborhood that you can monitor the kids from inside.

 

[D3K]

Any thing that endangers a child is abuse, but if you feel abuse is to hash a word for a toddler to be riding bike in his undies alone in 60 degree weather, Then how about neglect? I am curious if you would let your kids run around in their undies in 60 degree weather unsupervised? I sure wouldn't.

 

[D3K]

I totaly agree with Allaboutmm.

 

[D3K]

Did you every consider what might happen if the little boy just keeps riding his bike in his undies unsupervised? Sounds like a receipe for disaster to me.

 

[flipturngirl]

I think that you should take the boy to his mom and say " I have seen your son outside countless times with out clothes or adult supervision." I would say that and if she does not respond get a state social worker out and they could help. PM me

 

[allaboutmm]

3 year old outside is abuse? Sorry, I don't think so. Maybe not the best policy, but I think throwing around the term ABUSE is pretty strong. There are many homes in my neighborhood that you can monitor the kids from inside.

I think you misquoted me. What I said is that I think it is neglect. A three year old should not be left outside, half dressed, riding a bike w/o a helmet and no adult with him/her. I have been around many three and four year olds( Pre-School Teacher for 11 yrs.) they just don't have the wisdom to have that much responsiblity! Again this is just my opinon, and I think Tommygirl79 did the right thing.

 

[lilallybean]

I have to say a huge THANK YOU to the OP. It is so sad that lil ones are left to fend for themselves at such an early age. Even if the "mentally/physically exhausted parent" was indoors watching...this is NOT a safe situation at all for a child! I would have done the exact same thing and called the police! No second thought and no regrets! Come on folks we are talking about a CHILD! A very young child at that. You did good getting that lil one some much needed help...I hope and pray that they follow up and he gets the adult supervision he needs. I am a nurse at a mental health facility, there is a sexual preditor unit in our hospital. Unfortunatly not all the folks who need to be off the streets are! If the parents are not looking out for the lil ones safety SOMEBODY has to! I would NOT go up to the mother and try to talk to her about it. HELLO...she is an adult, she is the parent...she should know better and if she doesn't I would not "take the law into my own hands", but instead let the law handle it! THEY are the experts right?

to the OP...you did the right thing! Don't let other people make you question your actions. At least one person cares about that lil one enough to notice.

 

[jodifla]

I have to say a huge THANK YOU to the OP. It is so sad that lil ones are left to fend for themselves at such an early age. Even if the "mentally/physically exhausted parent" was indoors watching...this is NOT a safe situation at all for a child! I would have done the exact same thing and called the police! No second thought and no regrets! Come on folks we are talking about a CHILD! A very young child at that. You did good getting that lil one some much needed help...I hope and pray that they follow up and he gets the adult supervision he needs. I am a nurse at a mental health facility, there is a sexual preditor unit in our hospital. Unfortunatly not all the folks who need to be off the streets are! If the parents are not looking out for the lil ones safety SOMEBODY has to! I would NOT go up to the mother and try to talk to her about it. HELLO...she is an adult, she is the parent...she should know better and if she doesn't I would not "take the law into my own hands", but instead let the law handle it! THEY are the experts right?

to the OP...you did the right thing! Don't let other people make you question your actions. At least one person cares about that lil one enough to notice.

The good neighbor thing to do is talk to the mother first, BEFORE you call the police.

Glad you people don't live next to me.

 

[tommygirl79]

I do appreciate everyone's input into this matter. As I stated before I have stepped out of the situation and haven't noticed any further danger so I'm keeping my nose out of for the time being.

Lord Fantasius - Out of total respect you have assumed a huge amount of information for not seeing the situation first hand. I didn't take personal offense to any of it - I'm just trying to clear the air without making this a debate so I hope it is taken with a grain of salt in the way this is intended. I will go point to point as you so nicely organized your thoughts so that I don't get all jumbled up

1) You are correct that I didn't mention anything about last winter or early spring. However, the family has lived here at least 3 1/2 years as they were here when we moved in. You assumed way too much here. Just because the history I mentioned doesn't include our whole history doesn't mean they are new to the neighborhood. I just started seeing him our with adult supervision this summer. My guess is probably right as he was turning three or so since he was still in diapers (not that it's not possible he could have been older - not making too quick of judgments on that.) And any earlier out by himself would have been completely silly as he would have been closer to baby stage instead of preschool - he still rides on his trike sometimes even. Assumption #1 - not true.

2) Yes, I did state that we live down the street from the school but not directly on the street where the front doors are but along the bus route and where parents drive and park to pick up the school age children - there is NOT a reduced speed limit. Assumption #2 - not true. You also assumed that we/they moved here simply to save on transportation to school. Completely untrue - like I noted this is a small town and our school is simply the kindergarten and 1st grade before they move to another school. She also has a couple of older children and the furthest they will even go to school before 5th grade is 2 miles. Assumption #3 - not true.

3) I didn't mention the father, because he is not around while this is occurring (during the day). He lives there but is at work during the normal 8-5 work day. Assumption #4 - not true.

4) You are correct on this assumption. This neighbor has made it abundantly clear that she has NO interest in talking casually or otherwise to our neighborhood, thus the reason why I felt weird going to her in a holy-art-thou attitude (which is how it would have come across no matter how PC I did it) and tell her personally how I think her kid should be.

5) From everything I know about the family, which I do admit isn't TONS, they have lived in our small town for a long time. And as far as I'm concerned, even though I know this isn't the practice of everyone, but when a police officer comes to your door, you answer it unless you feel there is something they might be confronting you about. Why not answer it if you don't feel guilty about something. Might be wrong here and I'll admit to maybe being of different mind from others on this.

6) I just don't accept this reasoning AT ALL. My hubby is a VERY devoted hubby and father who spends every waking minute at home with me and the girls, but he also is working 2 jobs right now just so I can stay home with our kiddos. This week he was home only from 11:30pm-7:00 am 4 days this week which leaves me to do everything with our two kids and keeping our house into some semblance of order and I AM TIRED TOO!!! But I take time to go out with my kids and play and protect them from the outside world as much as I can without going overboard. Assumption #6 I consider completely untrue. Others may think differently though I realize.

7) I agree, thank God they are home at night and supposedly being sent to bed. However, that DOES NOT negate the issue of safety during the day. Assumption #7 - untrue.

8) see point #6.

9) See points above. You assumed WAAAAYYY to much with this.

10) Again, I stated that although I DON'T condone being outside with no clothes or shoes when it's chilly, I pointed out in my prior post my main concern way his safety being outside by himself.

11) I was lucky to get out of the boy that he was cold. He acted scared when I asked him that and I didn't want to be the "freaky stranger neighbor" asking too many questions.

12) I never said anything about him getting sick (I don't think)...again, that wasn't the main point.

13) Yes, the highway is a main concern. However, there is NO GUARDRAIL. Our street opens up right onto the highway from the neighbors yards in a residential area of a rural community, which yes means the speeds are down, but also means there are TONS of semis, buses, tractors, cars, etc. speeding past about 50 feet from his front driveway. As far as him knowing not to go out into the road, I have a 4 1/2 yr old DD that KNOWS to look both ways, etc but she is still just 4 1/2 yrs old - no yet old enough that she doesn't have moments when she forgets the "rules". I'll be risking and take the liberties of making some assumptions that you never know when a kid will forget what he is doing. That's not even talking about the chances that are still out there for loonies, injury while he's out by himself and can't get him mom, etc that are out there.

As far as the mom's day out thing goes, I have invited them several times to church events through her older child and have been turned down everytime. Would do the same with this program but it is limited to a certain number of kids (not just our church kids) and that number met everyday as it is. Something our church is working on to increase but there are state laws we have to abide by.

Like you said, it was TOO MUCH to go on without being here face to face so why did you attempt to do it????

As for the rest of the posters including Lord Fantasius, thanks for your opinions. As I stated above, I took the action I still stand behind and will keep in mind personal contact with the mom should I notice anything else. I don't want to be judgmental or jump to any conclusions that aren't there. So, no more action from me at this time.

Now, let's all let the debate rest as we have found on these boards, we probably won't change anyone's viewpoints or opinions and everyone's are just as valid as ours as long as they are informed.

I'm done with this and will not fall into a debate any further. In my opinion, my question has been answered on many good points around the board and I would hate for anyone to get their feelings hurt over a conversation that hopefully is now null and void. Thanks all you DISers!

 

[Nancyg56]

3 year old outside is abuse? Sorry, I don't think so. Maybe not the best policy, but I think throwing around the term ABUSE is pretty strong. There are many homes in my neighborhood that you can monitor the kids from inside.

Perhaps neglect would have been the word she was looking for. A 3 year ols out of doors in a diaper or underwear, with no adult is a problem.

 

[tink&cinderella]

Perhaps everyone should check out "use your voice.com" - just because Child Welfare is called does not mean they remove the child.

It is about SAFETY and BEST interest of the CHILD not the MOTHER.

This is precisely why adults who notice things that are amiss and potentially unsafe should do something - let the child welfare people speak with mom - she will likely get a caution, maybe she needs support, or maybe she's from a place where this is ok, maybe she was raised with a arm-chair style parent and doesn't know - Sometimes it's just about education - nothing sinister.

To all of you who think the OP should mind her own business - guess you wouldn't say that if the child had been hit by a car, abducted, sexually exploited or abused.

A child's life is too precious to take a gamble - Geez people -no wonder there actually has to be a campaign to encourage people to speak out rather then sit by and watch things happen.

How bad would you feel if you were in the OP's position, followed all those posters advice who said it's none of her business and something tragic happened. I wouldn't take the chance.

Unlike what some of you think, child welfare personell are people too, we have children, lives and believe it or not we are human - We don't expect perfection from parents- as this does not exist. The majority of families that receive services from child welfare are those where the child remains in the care of the family. After all one needs to demonstrate to a judge why removing a child was necessary - a very serious, decision in which we must prove the child was at such severe risk that without immediate intervention there was significant risks.

The stories that are heard by the general public are stories of parents who have their children in care - they however, NEVER tell the entire story. You will hear that the workers took the child for no reason - or a miniscule one which to the rest of us makes little sense. No one that I know, or have worked with has ever at the very beginning of their involvment with the agency voluntarily said to other's - they took my children because I am a drug addict, I am physcially abusing my child - no one does that!!! In part it takes parents a long time to recognize, accept and take responsibility -

I personally have had a client whose children were all apprehended due to severe drug use - they were close to never going home - She pulled it together, demonstrated a clean lifestyle for at least 6 months, and the children went home - I worked with her for over 1 1/2 years after that and the file was closed. Now she 's interested in getting a job at our agency. She comes to talk to parents about her experience. She's honest - said there were bad parts to her experience with the agency - but also points out the positive and today has been living a drug free lifesyle without child welfare for nearly 3 1/2 years.

How often do you hear that your local Child Welfare agency had reunited a family, saved a child from abuse, assisted in connecting a family to services, provided food vouchers or provided parenting groups and other assistance and supports??? No one does - it doesn't sell papers nor the news, What you will hear is when a child dies, or is found near death and where was the Child Welfare personnel then.

Anyhow, the people in communities that see things that are concerning are not expected to investigate their concerns - all they are asked to do is "use your voice"

Tink&Cinderella

 

[tink&cinderella]

For anyone interested the website is www.useyourvoice.ca

 

[jodifla]

Perhaps everyone should check out "use your voice.com" - just because Child Welfare is called does not mean they remove the child.

It is about SAFETY and BEST interest of the CHILD not the MOTHER.

This is precisely why adults who notice things that are amiss and potentially unsafe should do something - let the child welfare people speak with mom - she will likely get a caution, maybe she needs support, or maybe she's from a place where this is ok, maybe she was raised with a arm-chair style parent and doesn't know - Sometimes it's just about education - nothing sinister.

To all of you who think the OP should mind her own business - guess you wouldn't say that if the child had been hit by a car, abducted, sexually exploited or abused.

A child's life is too precious to take a gamble - Geez people -no wonder there actually has to be a campaign to encourage people to speak out rather then sit by and watch things happen.

How bad would you feel if you were in the OP's position, followed all those posters advice who said it's none of her business and something tragic happened. I wouldn't take the chance.

Unlike what some of you think, child welfare personell are people too, we have children, lives and believe it or not we are human - We don't expect perfection from parents- as this does not exist. The majority of families that receive services from child welfare are those where the child remains in the care of the family. After all one needs to demonstrate to a judge why removing a child was necessary - a very serious, decision in which we must prove the child was at such severe risk that without immediate intervention there was significant risks.

The stories that are heard by the general public are stories of parents who have their children in care - they however, NEVER tell the entire story. You will hear that the workers took the child for no reason - or a miniscule one which to the rest of us makes little sense. No one that I know, or have worked with has ever at the very beginning of their involvment with the agency voluntarily said to other's - they took my children because I am a drug addict, I am physcially abusing my child - no one does that!!! In part it takes parents a long time to recognize, accept and take responsibility -

I personally have had a client whose children were all apprehended due to severe drug use - they were close to never going home - She pulled it together, demonstrated a clean lifestyle for at least 6 months, and the children went home - I worked with her for over 1 1/2 years after that and the file was closed. Now she 's interested in getting a job at our agency. She comes to talk to parents about her experience. She's honest - said there were bad parts to her experience with the agency - but also points out the positive and today has been living a drug free lifesyle without child welfare for nearly 3 1/2 years.

How often do you hear that your local Child Welfare agency had reunited a family, saved a child from abuse, assisted in connecting a family to services, provided food vouchers or provided parenting groups and other assistance and supports??? No one does - it doesn't sell papers nor the news, What you will hear is when a child dies, or is found near death and where was the Child Welfare personnel then.

Anyhow, the people in communities that see things that are concerning are not expected to investigate their concerns - all they are asked to do is "use your voice"

Tink&Cinderella

Actually, I don't think ANYONE said not to get involved, or to look the other way. It's you who is doing the misquoting.

We suggested she say something personally, instead of calling the police as a first resort. How about "using your voice" that way?

And you can see by the reactions from the DIS boards that people have varying views on how to raise children. It does sound as though something is amiss, but calling in the feds right away seems like the wrong way to go to me.

And OP did ask for our input; or that was the way I read it, anyway.

 

[hsmamato2]

"I'm glad you don't live next to me"??? I don't get that one- the OP did the right thing. This kid wasn't in a good situation. If one of my kids was in a bad situation- I'd PRAY that someone had enough sense to help them. If it's no big deal the authorities will handle it. If it is- then some kids life may be improved by said authorities... We live in a society where we're all afraid to take someone elses kid by the hand if they're lost, or dirty and cold, or crying,b/c we don't know how the parent will react. That's sad.
Bravo OP If it was a mistake,and this kid has responsible parents(which I doubt)... I'm an old fashioned parent type myself-I try not to be overprotective, but I would have done the same thing.

 

[DisneyPhD]

For anyone interested the website is www.useyourvoice.ca

Thanks for inputing your experince and that link tink&cinderella.

I agree that I don't think anyone has suggested "not to get involoved or do nothing."

OP, I can understand your interest in this debat to cese. Please keep us updated on the situation if you notice any changes. I hope things get better for the little boy and his family.

 

[ktpool]

The good neighbor thing to do is talk to the mother first, BEFORE you call the police.

Glad you people don't live next to me.

I have to say, I am glad I don't live next to you either. I do not want to be worried about my neighbor's children because they don't. And before anyone says "don't worry about them", how could anyone with a heart not feel for a small child, left to his own devices, clothed or not, unsupervised?

Besides, in my state, it is against the law to NOT report suspected cases of neglect or abuse. Because the op has expressed her concern, it is literally too late to do nothing.

To the op...you have done the right thing - please continue to do so.

 

[Lord Fantasius]

My heart does go out to the OP and surprising as it may sound I do sympathize with her plight, I'm sure she struggled with her decision and didn't make it flippantly, we had a few instances of this type of behavior in the neighborhood I grew up in, however but I don't ever remember the police or DCFS being called...maybe it was just a different time back then.

I should say though that if letting your child ride a bike without a helmet is neglect enought to warrant prosecution then every parent on our block not even 30 yr's ago would have been arrested, and some if those parents were far more overprotective than what I've read here...do any states mandate a child wear a helmet when riding bike? Yes, I know it's a really good idea, but a prosecuting event? And no, I don't think it warrants a neglect charge...maybe because I didn't wear one until I was in college. How many of you wore a bike helmet while growing up?

I truly believe the calling the police and DCFS would the second-to-last and last thing I did, respectively, in my opinion. One of the first things I would have done would be to call the Dept. of Transportation or City/Municipality to see if a guardrail could be put up between the highway and the neighborhood as well as get a "Slow Children at Play - Speed Limit 15" sign post on your block. Sounds like with that many children on the block the city/county would prefer that instead of a lawsuit.

Finally, I never suggested to the OP to "mind her own business" or to "stay out of if," but as a father of a 2-yr old that I love very much, I think she skipped a few steps what with the information we received originally.

It is strange, however, that someone's assumptions can be so wrong when they don't have all the information?!!

-R

 

[jodifla]

I have to say, I am glad I don't live next to you either. I do not want to be worried about my neighbor's children because they don't. And before anyone says "don't worry about them", how could anyone with a heart not feel for a small child, left to his own devices, clothed or not, unsupervised?

Besides, in my state, it is against the law to NOT report suspected cases of neglect or abuse. Because the op has expressed her concern, it is literally too late to do nothing.

To the op...you have done the right thing - please continue to do so.

So, you assume because I don't have the same opinion as you I don't care for my children? Interesting. Guess you're not an advocate of free speech.

My point, which many of you can't seem to grasp, is that we shouldn't all be running to the police to report our neighbors every chance we get, without getting all the facts first. If she was so worried about that child, the thing to do would have been to take action that minute, by talking to the mother FIRST.

 

[DisneyPhD]

My heart does go out to the OP and surprising as it may sound I do sympathize with her plight, I'm sure she struggled with her decision and didn't make it flippantly, we had a few instances of this type of behavior in the neighborhood I grew up in, however but I don't ever remember the police or DCFS being called...maybe it was just a different time back then.

I should say though that if letting your child ride a bike without a helmet is neglect enought to warrant prosecution then every parent on our block not even 30 yr's ago would have been arrested, and some if those parents were far more overprotective than what I've read here...do any states mandate a child wear a helmet when riding bike? Yes, I know it's a really good idea, but a prosecuting event? And no, I don't think it warrants a neglect charge...maybe because I didn't wear one until I was in college. How many of you wore a bike helmet while growing up?

I truly believe the calling the police and DCFS would the second-to-last and last thing I did, respectively, in my opinion. One of the first things I would have done would be to call the Dept. of Transportation or City/Municipality to see if a guardrail could be put up between the highway and the neighborhood as well as get a "Slow Children at Play - Speed Limit 15" sign post on your block. Sounds like with that many children on the block the city/county would prefer that instead of a lawsuit.

-R

I completly agree about the bike helments. We rode all the time with out them. ( I even fliped over my handel bars, landing on my head so it would of been a good idea.

I don't think the OP concern was based only on lack of helmet. (more lack of cothes and supervison.) Much of the concern is based on questionable judgment if it is neglect, especailly if it was a one time thing. (but it wasn't.) However things were starting to add up as strange and not feeling right. That is why she was seeking advice.