Commercial Sellers of DVC Points

[dumbo71]

I am similarly mystified.

I was under the impression that DVC made their money on the front end, when they sold the original contract. It seems like the buyer of your points would continue to pay dues...which DVC makes no profit on anyway.

Have I been misled? Gosh, I hope not!

How does your sale hurt DVC? For all we know, their actual reaction might be

If they had any reaction, good or bad to my sellinfg, I would have been impressed.

You see, you are correct they do make money on the front end of sales. They could care less about keeping loyal owners. There is a long line of people with no money ready to get DVC's easy financing. When they default DVC doesn't care, they will take those points and sell them to the next sucker.

Sad but true folks.

 

[dumbo71]

Did you actually have any reservations cancelled or limitations placed on using your DVC account? Did you contact DVC legal after receiving the letter to ask for clarification? Did DVC legal provide a written opinion that "you were doing nothing wrong" or was it a comment made by a MS rep via the phone?

It sounds as though the letter is being sent to those members who surpassed some threshhold regarding rental activity. I think the majority of those recipients are likely to either stop renting or sell points (as you did) - without contacting DVC legal to try to straighten out any misunderstanding. DVC may be taking a shotgun approach at first to see how many will react to the general threat even though they would not actually be pursued. Those who choose to ignore the warning and continue the same rental activity may find another followup letter in the coming months.

Doc, I didn't get anything from MS. It came straight from DVC legal. Then they turn around and send this annoying letter.

Hey, if I was a commercial renter I would just man up. I wasn't. Too many turns for the worst with DVC for my taste. I have followed up with comments about these changes and the letter. Still no reply to date, 6 weeks and counting.

Many love DVC and good for them. I still love it in many ways but I just long for the simpler days of ownership like the early days of OKW. Things have changed too much for my tastes. Directly telling you one thing and doing another is a bit unsettling.

 

[LisaS]

The letter does exist, I promise. The part that is urban legend is the part about 20 rentals in a year. I have no doubt Beca's friend received said letter and specified his 20 rentals in a year. Thing is I had 20 -25 rentals over a 12 year period and received a letter stating that my reservations were subject to being cancelled and my DVC account subject to being frozen.

Just wondering if the part of your post that I bolded was a typo. Did you really mean 20-25 rentals over 12 years or did you mean 12 months?

 

[Doctor P]

I disagree. I've booked peak weeks for years. I would book a Christmas week and a spring break week. I would then list them for sale and end up getting around $15 per point for those peak weeks. I list with a total price for the 6 days I book, not per point.

By many legally defensible and tested definitions, this makes you a commercial renter whether you like it or not. Not saying that this is these are the definitions they are choosing to use, but perhaps that is why you had the experience you had with the letter.

 

[RobDoc]

Doc, I didn't get anything from MS. It came straight from DVC legal. Then they turn around and send this annoying letter.

Hey, if I was a commercial renter I would just man up. I wasn't. Too many turns for the worst with DVC for my taste. I have followed up with comments about these changes and the letter. Still no reply to date, 6 weeks and counting.

Many love DVC and good for them. I still love it in many ways but I just long for the simpler days of ownership like the early days of OKW. Things have changed too much for my tastes. Directly telling you one thing and doing another is a bit unsettling.

What I was asking is did you get something in print from DVC legal indicating that you were doing nothing wrong? If you did, then you should have nothing to worry about and , IMO, reacted too quickly without a follow up inquiry and confirmation. As for "Directly telling you one thing and doing another is a bit unsettling." - has DVC done something to your membership as a result of your rental activity or are you speaking of the threat implied in the letter?

If you just reacted to the letter from legal without any confirmation for what you were doing then they accomplished something with their fishing expedition. Since you have not sold all of your contracts, it seems that only the rental portion of ownership has been affected and your personal use is still to be enjoyed.

I don't understand the "disclaimer: I no longer rent any points. I own only what I use. It wasn't worth the headache any longer and the grief from DVC." It sounds as though you may have purchased points for the purpose of renting? If DVC has never cancelled a reservation and has never restricted your membership use, what "grief" did you get from DVC?

At any rate, it sounds as though you are still a DVC member who is using his points for "personal use" - which is what the POS describes as intended use in the first place.

I'm glad you were able to sell your excess points without too much difficulty.

 

[Chuck S]

I may be just one guy but I can effect DVC's bottom line. Watch for falling resale values in the coming years as DVC continues this path they are on.

DVC resale values will begin a fall in "the coming years" anyway, as they get closer to the end of the right to use lease. I don't think "you" will have had much influence over that.

 

[drakethib]

Well, first I hope you all had a good Thansgiving.

Beca, sorry you are receiving the flames. I for one believe you.

I hope everyone had a great Turkey Day as well.

I don't think anyone is flaming anyone or at least I don't see it that way. My apologizes to anyone if I did.

I am not saying a letter exist or doesn't exist. I would just like to see one for myself just because I am nosy.

Again, I just hope someone would be able to post a copy if it does exist.

Heck, the DIS Detectives people found designs for the DVC CRV and had it posted on the DIS. This letter should be a piece of cake even if it is underground.

 

[drakethib]

I'm confused...how is selling your points going to "hit DVC where it hurts?"

It may not hurt them at all and they could possibly make money by him selling his points (i.e.He may have bought at 60, maybe sells at 80, DVC resales at 95 as an example).

While they will lose a customer, I think he will be replaced by another.

Hopefully all will be happy in the end

 

[Chuck S]

I hope everyone had a great Turkey Day as well.

I don't think anyone is flaming anyone or at least I don't see it that way. My apologizes to anyone if I did.

I am not saying a letter exist or doesn't exist. I would just like to see one for myself just because I am nosy.

Again, I just hope someone would be able to post a copy if it does exist.

Heck, the DIS Detectives people found designs for the DVC CRV and had it posted on the DIS. This letter should be a piece of cake even if it is underground.

I doubt "the letter" would be hidden somewhere in cyberspace (like the CRV design), unless one of the people that received one posts it somewhere. Disney legal would tend to keep that sort of thing "underwraps" (at least the actual wording) and do as they did, notify the people involved privately.

 

[drakethib]

I have been watching this thread and decided to see for myself what was available on e-bay. What I found really made me angry. One person (can I give screen names?) has booked all 3 spring break weeks in March and has them all listed for sale. Another is listing Christmas week and President's week and says he can get any other week. I don't care if these people meet the 20 reservation limit or not - they need to be stopped! It's not right to book prime weeks to sell - then the rest of us can't book.

This is where I think that if DVC is indeed watching the renters, they should have some sort of hotline to report this or at least a reportrenters@dvcmember.com email address or something to that nature.

 

[TCPluto]

I may be just one guy but I can effect DVC's bottom line.

Now that's power!!

I do hope that DVC is addressing commercial renters, I just don't get how some think or say it's happening though. With the ebay auctions running all of the time and the obvious websites going on unencumbered, I just don't see the enforcement.

Getting the letter and throwing it away without checking it out seems suspect to me as well, as it relates to proving or disproving the existance of such a letter (which I hope does exist). Sorry, that's the skeptic in me I guess.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Okay, I've been following this thread for some time without comment. I just have to say though, Dumbo, if you received a letter and sold your "rental" property part of DVC and only kept your "personal use" property....Then yes, you WERE a commercial renter in the eyes of DVC and many here on these boards. My POS says it is for personal use. If you had or have considerably more points than you could or would use yourself personally, then the excess that was rented had to be for a profit of some sort....ergo...commercial use.

 

[simzac]

Okay, I've been following this thread for some time without comment. I just have to say though, Dumbo, if you received a letter and sold your "rental" property part of DVC and only kept your "personal use" property....Then yes, you WERE a commercial renter in the eyes of DVC and many here on these boards. My POS says it is for personal use. If you had or have considerably more points than you could or would use yourself personally, then the excess that was rented had to be for a profit of some sort....ergo...commercial use.

Agreed

 

[goldilocks_63]

How can Disney distinguish between a reservation for a friend and one for commercial purposes?

For example, I have a friend going thru a nasty divorce, so was going to give her and her kids a free room next year....

And I bring my relatives and hubby's every year, and because I never took married name, it's different last name than mine.... and contracts only in my name because hubby was against purchase, so it's my "hobby" as he calls it....

 

[Chuck S]

How can Disney distinguish between a reservation for a friend and one for commercial purposes?

For example, I have a friend going thru a nasty divorce, so was going to give her and her kids a free room next year....

And I bring my relatives and hubby's every year, and because I never took married name, it's different last name than mine.... and contracts only in my name because hubby was against purchase, so it's my "hobby" as he calls it....

Do you travel most times to Disney with your relatives? Then you have two reservations for the same time on your account, ad one of those ressies is for you. I think anyone would assume you are actually one party of friends/relatives.

As far as your divorced friend going by herself, I don't think Disney is really looking for the occasional (one of two) per year renter. The are looking for a pattern that would indicate many reservations, possibly at peak times, under many different names...but that do not include the name of the owner.

They are also looking for a pattern of making a ressie, then changing the name after the ressie is made. Again, it is something that probably happents to everyone occasionally, but not on a consistent basis.

 

[dumbo71]

Just wondering if the part of your post that I bolded was a typo. Did you really mean 20-25 rentals over 12 years or did you mean 12 months?

Yes, it was posted right, 20 -25 rentals over a 12 YEAR period.

 

[dumbo71]

What I was asking is did you get something in print from DVC legal indicating that you were doing nothing wrong? If you did, then you should have nothing to worry about and , IMO, reacted too quickly without a follow up inquiry and confirmation. As for "Directly telling you one thing and doing another is a bit unsettling." - has DVC done something to your membership as a result of your rental activity or are you speaking of the threat implied in the letter?

If you just reacted to the letter from legal without any confirmation for what you were doing then they accomplished something with their fishing expedition. Since you have not sold all of your contracts, it seems that only the rental portion of ownership has been affected and your personal use is still to be enjoyed.

I don't understand the "disclaimer: I no longer rent any points. I own only what I use. It wasn't worth the headache any longer and the grief from DVC." It sounds as though you may have purchased points for the purpose of renting? If DVC has never cancelled a reservation and has never restricted your membership use, what "grief" did you get from DVC?

At any rate, it sounds as though you are still a DVC member who is using his points for "personal use" - which is what the POS describes as intended use in the first place.

I'm glad you were able to sell your excess points without too much difficulty.

Doc, No I did not receive anything in writing from DVC legal. In hindsight I should have asked for something. It was only a phone call coversation.

As far as anything hapening to my DVC account, you have a point. Nothing ever did but I didn't even want to risk that. I would hate to have a rental and then the renter shows up to a cancelled reservation. I will not even risk that for there sake.

The grief from DVC I speak of is simply the letter after being told I was doing nothing wrong.

I originally purchased points for personal use. I then planned on spending retirement years at WDW so I started adding on. When I added on I was told even encouraged by my guide to rent the excess until we could use them all. That is all I was doing.

I realize anything a guide says should be taken with a grain of salt but they are employees of DVC. There should be some level of accountability.

I am done posting in this thread. It is turning into a he said she said type of thing.

My selling may have been a knee jerk reaction but it is one that I am very comfortable with. I profited from my rentals and I profited from my resale. Worked out well.

Now on to enjoying the rest of my holiday and planning a DVC trip.

 

[drakethib]

Doc, No I did not receive anything in writing from DVC legal. In hindsight I should have asked for something. It was only a phone call coversation.

As far as anything hapening to my DVC account, you have a point. Nothing ever did but I didn't even want to risk that. I would hate to have a rental and then the renter shows up to a cancelled reservation. I will not even risk that for there sake.

The grief from DVC I speak of is simply the letter after being told I was doing nothing wrong.

I originally purchased points for personal use. I then planned on spending retirement years at WDW so I started adding on. When I added on I was told even encouraged by my guide to rent the excess until we could use them all. That is all I was doing.

I realize anything a guide says should be taken with a grain of salt but they are employees of DVC. There should be some level of accountability.

I am done posting in this thread. It is turning into a he said she said type of thing.

My selling may have been a knee jerk reaction but it is one that I am very comfortable with. I profited from my rentals and I profited from my resale. Worked out well.

Now on to enjoying the rest of my holiday and planning a DVC trip.

Where/ Who was the letter generated that was sent to you?

 

[TCPluto]

Doc, No I did not receive anything in writing from DVC legal.

The grief from DVC I speak of is simply the letter after being told I was doing nothing wrong.

This has got me confused. Was there a letter sent or not? I thought from earlier that the claim was that a letter was sent, but now I don't know....

 

[RobDoc]

This has got me confused. Was there a letter sent or not? I thought from earlier that the claim was that a letter was sent, but now I don't know....

Apparently, dumbo71 had contacted DVC legal about rental activity and was told they were doing nothing wrong. When I asked if that statement was made in writing, the reply was that it had been a phone conversation.

A few weeks ago, dumbo71 stated that a letter came from DVC legal suggesting that they have noted a pattern of commercial activity that could put the use of their contracts in jeopardy. Rather than confront DVC about the issue, dumbo71 states that they sold a "majority" of their ownership as a result of the threat received.

Hopefully, I have stated that accurately based on the information provided earlier in this thread.