Commercial Sellers of DVC Points

[alisbarc]

I can see both sides of this issue.

 

[TCPluto]

I understand that in the next 30-60 days we should see a significant reduction in the commercial sellers. Several commercial sellers have already been contacted by Disney and as Disney finds out about them, they will contact them.

http://www.dvcrequest.com

If DVC is truly doing something proactive, why is this guy still operating his website? It's clearly a commercial enterpirse for him. Why wouldn't they start with someone like this, who is so clearly in violation?

Makes a person wonder about the whole thing....

 

[rinkwide]

...Why wouldn't they start with someone like this, who is so clearly in violation?...

They would if they could.

 

[3DisneyKids]

I, too, am surprised that this site is still up and active....especially since he has the proprietary photos there! Yikes! I suggest that you (or we) e-mail this link to MS and let them take it from there. Perhpas they just don't know about this one yet.

 

[Y-ASK]

Maybe they know and have already sent him "The Letter". Maybe he doesn't have over a 1000 pts. or has over 20 rentals in a 12 month time frame. Maybe he's going to be like Beca's friend and ignore the letter if he got one. Maybe he's going to fight it and until he gets a court order to take down his site it is what it is. Maybe some of us DIS/DVC folks should send him a note and point out the POS and his going against it.

He has 24 comments from people he rented to so obviously he's had more than 20 reservations in different names over the last year. Ignore what I wrote here: "Maybe he's just a guy with a couple of hundred points who likes to develop websites. Would he really be worth going after?"

Y-ASK

 

[Plutofan]

http://www.dvcrequest.com

If DVC is truly doing something proactive, why is this guy still operating his website? It's clearly a commercial enterpirse for him. Why wouldn't they start with someone like this, who is so clearly in violation?

Makes a person wonder about the whole thing....

I believe that it has made a difference. My personal opinion is that Disney is not going after shuting websites like this down but to curtail their ability to rent out points. I belive that Disney has had an effect on this website. He used to rent out points at $12 per point and advertise a lot that he had points available. Just recently he was listing points at $17 per point and now the website shows $14 per point. I bet the changes have had a material impact on the number of points that he is renting out. Just my thoughts.

 

[Y-ASK]

http://www.dvcrequest.com

If DVC is truly doing something proactive, why is this guy still operating his website? It's clearly a commercial enterpirse for him. Why wouldn't they start with someone like this, who is so clearly in violation?

Not sure if this guy is big enough but he seems to rent just about all of his points from the number of rentals. I looked up his info. in Jay's last thread and had to re-fresh my memory. Here's some details:

He owns a small company called Capitol Technologies in Canada. If you go to this site http://www.capitol-tech.com/ and look at the "About Us" link you'll find his name.

He and his wife own about 604 Pts. and they finananced about 450 of those points through DVC. Got that info from this site:

http://officialrecords.occompt.com/wb_or1/or_sch_1.asp

So the way I see it, if you are really concerned about commerical renting you should approach this in one of two ways. You can contact this guy and refer him to his POS specifically about commerical renting or you can contact DVC and provide them with his website, company name, his name and his wife's name.

I personally don't think 604 pts is worth the hassle but by putting up a website to rent his points I think this has brought him into the commerical world.

Y-ASK

 

[Jay Foster]

Not sure if this guy is big enough but he seems to rent just about all of his points from the number of rentals. I looked up his info. in Jay's last thread and had to re-fresh my memory. Here's some details:

He owns a small company called Capitol Technologies in Canada. If you go to this site http://www.capitol-tech.com/ and look at the "About Us" link you'll find his name.

He and his wife own about 604 Pts. and they finananced about 450 of those points through DVC. Got that info from this site:

http://officialrecords.occompt.com/wb_or1/or_sch_1.asp

So the way I see it, if you are really concerned about commerical renting you should approach this in one of two ways. You can contact this guy and refer him to his POS specifically about commerical renting or you can contact DVC and provide them with his website, company name, his name and his wife's name.

I personally don't think 604 pts is worth the hassle but by putting up a website to rent his points I think this has brought him into the commerical world.

Y-ASK

Do you have any information on this site: www.gateawaymagic.com? Records show the owner but I wonder if he is really the owner.

I do not know anything specifica about www.dvcrequest.com. I would think the effort would include that site but that is obviously up to Disney. I do know that Disney believes they can do something about the commercial renters and they have sent those letters to those they can identify. Whether they can do it legally, that will obviously be up to the courts if someone decides to fight them on it.

 

[Dis13]

Not sure if this guy is big enough but he seems to rent just about all of his points from the number of rentals. I looked up his info. in Jay's last thread and had to re-fresh my memory. Here's some details:

He owns a small company called Capitol Technologies in Canada. If you go to this site http://www.capitol-tech.com/ and look at the "About Us" link you'll find his name.

He and his wife own about 604 Pts. and they finananced about 450 of those points through DVC. Got that info from this site:

http://officialrecords.occompt.com/wb_or1/or_sch_1.asp

So the way I see it, if you are really concerned about commerical renting you should approach this in one of two ways. You can contact this guy and refer him to his POS specifically about commerical renting or you can contact DVC and provide them with his website, company name, his name and his wife's name.

I personally don't think 604 pts is worth the hassle but by putting up a website to rent his points I think this has brought him into the commerical world.

Y-ASK

If you follow the link provided on his website where it says ....
cruise on over to Disney World Resort Hotels for Less, (http://www.squidoo.com/WDWResortsforLess/), the other website refers back to him as:

"I also recently came upon David's Personal DVC Point Rental Site. He rents out his own points and points that other DVC owners have transferred to him."

It sounds like he may have been one of the "points-morphers."

 

[Y-ASK]

Do you have any information on this site: www.gateawaymagic.com? Records show the owner but I wonder if he is really the owner.

He is. When you search the Orange County records put in the lastname firstname and middle initial using "W" (which is his middle initial).
Example:

Smith William W

In the "Type" area put a "D,NOT" and then look for the Disney listings. You'll have to go through a couple but soon you will see his Annandale VA address with the street name Lincolnshire. That address matches exactly with the whois for his website information.

Y-ASK

By the way this guy is a big time commerical renter, no question about it...

 

[Beca]

http://www.dvcrequest.com

If DVC is truly doing something proactive, why is this guy still operating his website? It's clearly a commercial enterpirse for him. Why wouldn't they start with someone like this, who is so clearly in violation?

Makes a person wonder about the whole thing....

I wonder if the rules are different because he is in Canada?

I don't know, but I am with you. It makes me really angry that we didn't see DVC pulling down ebay auctions until they were mentioned on this board!! And, even after that, they only really pulled the Weschlers....others were still up there. I swear, sometimes I think DVC depends way too much on the sleuths of this site to do their homework for them!! DVC DOES read these boards...there are people for whom it is part of their job description to read these boards. If you post info on "rule-breakers", I guarantee DVC will get the info. But, regarding the guy in Canada...his info has been posted before. Which makes me wonder if it is a "Canada" thing. I do know they have sent "the letter" to people in some other countries, but I do not know about Canada.

I don't think this guy can get over the "20 reservations limit" with his 600 points. I mean, even if he did 5 night stays off-season, that's only 12 reservations. Maybe the 1-transfer rule shut him down sufficiently that DVC is no longer worried about him? This is just another example of how the "20 reservation limit" may not be garnering the desired effect. I do have to say, however, that I am surprised to see this type of venture (which actually proves many of my theories wrong). I have always thought it is a BAD use of your money to own lots of DVC points and rent them out. It seems like an awful lot of trouble for very little return. I guess there are renters who see that differently.

 

[crisi]

I wonder if the rules are different because he is in Canada?

I don't know, but I am with you. It makes me really angry that we didn't see DVC pulling down ebay auctions until they were mentioned on this board!! And, even after that, they only really pulled the Weschlers....others were still up there. I swear, sometimes I think DVC depends way too much on the sleuths of this site to do their homework for them!! DVC DOES read these boards...there are people for whom it is part of their job description to read these boards. If you post info on "rule-breakers", I guarantee DVC will get the info. But, regarding the guy in Canada...his info has been posted before. Which makes me wonder if it is a "Canada" thing. I do know they have sent "the letter" to people in some other countries, but I do not know about Canada.

I don't think this guy can get over the "20 reservations limit" with his 600 points. I mean, even if he did 5 night stays off-season, that's only 12 reservations. Maybe the 1-transfer rule shut him down sufficiently that DVC is no longer worried about him? This is just another example of how the "20 reservation limit" may not be garnering the desired effect. I do have to say, however, that I am surprised to see this type of venture (which actually proves many of my theories wrong). I have always thought it is a BAD use of your money to own lots of DVC points and rent them out. It seems like an awful lot of trouble for very little return. I guess there are renters who see that differently.

He's also an SSR owner. As I recall, a lot of the complaints were specifically around booking high demand rooms (BWV Standard View during Food and Wine) eleven months out and then auctioning the reservation and the point morphing of points into BCV points (or other resorts) booking those small resorts faster than the anticipated rate before the seven month window. He may be relatively down on the list of people to admonish because his business model isn't as damaging as some of the other models - there are generally enough SSR rooms at seven months (Grand Villas perhaps excepted - I haven't heard).

I also think its a lot of bother for little return - especially for SSR owners who bought at or near $90 a point. But if he was getting $17 a point, he was doing fine.

 

[Chuck S]

I do have to say, however, that I am surprised to see this type of venture (which actually proves many of my theories wrong). I have always thought it is a BAD use of your money to own lots of DVC points and rent them out. It seems like an awful lot of trouble for very little return. I guess there are renters who see that differently.

I do not rent my points, but let's just say I did to add up some figures. I own 345 points. I paid $51.50 per point in 1992. So that is a yearly average of $1.051 per point per year for the life of the contract. Then add dues of $4.49 (for 2006) for $5.541 per point. Or, total cost, $1911.65. At $10 per point for a rental $3450.00 or a profit this year of $1538.35 ($128.19 per month). But on a 2000 point contract, my annual profit would be $8918 with very little overhead cost or substantial time involved, maybe an hour per day (on average) to check emails and book ressies. Even less time involved if I pre-booked prime ressies and sold them. If I could get $12 per point, my profit would be $12918, or $1076.50 per month..enough to pay the household bills and have a nice bit of spending money.

 

[Jay Foster]

He is. When you search the Orange County records put in the lastname firstname and middle initial using "W" (which is his middle initial).
Example:

Smith William W

In the "Type" area put a "D,NOT" and then look for the Disney listings. You'll have to go through a couple but soon you will see his Annandale VA address with the street name Lincolnshire. That address matches exactly with the whois for his website information.

Y-ASK

By the way this guy is a big time commerical renter, no question about it...

I see the information you are talking about now. It appears he is one and the same person. It will be interesting to watch what happens.

 

[crisi]

I do not rent my points, but let's just say I did to add up some figures. I own 345 points. I paid $51.50 per point in 1992. So that is a yearly average of $1.051 per point per year for the life of the contract. Then add dues of $4.49 (for 2006) for $5.541 per point. Or, total cost, $1911.65. At $10 per point for a rental $3450.00 or a profit this year of $1538.35 ($128.19 per month). But on a 2000 point contract, my annual profit would be $8918 with very little overhead cost or substantial time involved, maybe an hour per day (on average) to check emails and book ressies. Even less time involved if I pre-booked prime ressies and sold them. If I could get $12 per point, my profit would be $12918, or $1076.50 per month..enough to pay the household bills and have a nice bit of spending money.

Which gets us into the "rental price" debate. OKW owners who bought in 1992 and paid cash can make a tidy profit at $10 a point. SSR owners who bought at $90 and financed have a much smaller margin at $10 a point.

 

[kdzgon]

Maybe they know and have already sent him "The Letter". Maybe he doesn't have over a 1000 pts. or has over 20 rentals in a 12 month time frame. Maybe he's going to be like Beca's friend and ignore the letter if he got one. Maybe he's going to fight it and until he gets a court order to take down his site it is what it is. Maybe some of us DIS/DVC folks should send him a note and point out the POS and his going against it.

He has 24 comments from people he rented to so obviously he's had more than 20 reservations in different names over the last year. Ignore what I wrote here: "Maybe he's just a guy with a couple of hundred points who likes to develop websites. Would he really be worth going after?"

Y-ASK

Some of the comments are from those that sold points to him as well. Maybe that even accounts for some of the variations in his rental prices, too.

 

[Beca]

I do not rent my points, but let's just say I did to add up some figures. I own 345 points. I paid $51.50 per point in 1992. So that is a yearly average of $1.051 per point per year for the life of the contract. Then add dues of $4.49 (for 2006) for $5.541 per point. Or, total cost, $1911.65. At $10 per point for a rental $3450.00 or a profit this year of $1538.35 ($128.19 per month). But on a 2000 point contract, my annual profit would be $8918 with very little overhead cost or substantial time involved, maybe an hour per day (on average) to check emails and book ressies. Even less time involved if I pre-booked prime ressies and sold them. If I could get $12 per point, my profit would be $12918, or $1076.50 per month..enough to pay the household bills and have a nice bit of spending money.

Yes, but dealing with renters all the time? Yuck!!! And, you would have to make sure you kept pretty good record so the IRS doesn't come after you. If I had the money to purchase 2000 points as an "investment"...the $1000 per month (before taxes) just wouldn't be worth my time or trouble. I'd invest that money elsewhere.

 

[rinkwide]

...dealing with renters all the time? Yuck!!!...

Renters < Lepers

 

[Beca]

Renters < Lepers

Okay...I gues I deserved that!!! Renters are VERY nice people (especially the ones I am renting to right now).

I just meant...having to deal with MANAGING rentals all the time. People making changes, asking for view requests, panicking about whether or not their ressie is still "in existence", needing reassurance....no way!! When I was in college, I used to supplement my "Hooters" income (yes, I am VERY serious here) by making custom wedding dresses (usually from different time periods). Brides were WAY more trouble than they were worth...I would get calls at 3AM from panicking brides...it was a good thing I was young!! It would take an awful lot of money for me to EVER make wedding dresses again...it is just not worth the agony!!

 

[Mickey Fliers]

Holy cow, all of this just makes my head spin.

Seriously, all this extra work to make a buck. I just don't get it.