Child support question

[smfritz03]

As you can see in my above post--this is what we run into when CASA is brought in. usually those are the cases where mother doesn't think a father should be involved with the child other than financially and the father is able to afford a custody battle.

Sorry, a child needs BOTH parents, emotionally and financially. Most moms disagree with this and want to control every aspect of a child and often do ruin a childs bond with their father to be the "favorite" parent in divorce situations. I'm not saying all, but you don't have to be so touchy about it. Usually the ones who are so passionate about it, have some reason to be.

Do a simple search and you'll see a bunch of forums dedicated to this very topic.

 

[kathi29]

And most mothers who are required to pay support,it's a proven fact, they don't or won't............

When my SS was living with his mother, DH managed to pay support in full, on time, every time. Now that SS lives with us, she doesn't feel like she should have to pay anything at all. We also managed to buy a prepaid college plan for SS over those years. Now? She wouldn't even pitch in a couple bucks towards school supplies. I bought him the calculator that he should have had 2 years ago (suggested, but not required) and she makes him pay his own way if they go out to dinner.

The Dad and the stepmom are not always the evil people they are made out to be. I wish more people would take the time to understand and look at both sides.

 

[lillygator]

DH's #1 financial priority should be to his first born child. There obviously is a lot to this story but assuming that he knew he had a child when he married you and had more children, the first child comes first. I think he should try to go visit in person, talk to his son and see what is really going on with him. If the money is going to the mother and his son is not benefitting from this, he needs to fight this is court and get the money to his child or pay schools directly. If his son is living in the mother's house and she is truly supporting him while he getting more education, he should continue to support his son. I hear the argument that the law lets you stop supporting a child at 18 if you are married. Are you planning on kicking your kids out of the house on their 18th birthday and providing no help to get settled or no educational support? Is this how you want your husband to treat your kids? If not, why should his oldest child be treated any differently. I will get flamed, but for the record, I am not divorced or receiving any kind of child support.

why is that?

 

[smfritz03]

Have you ever heard of PAS (parental alienation syndrome)?

Gardner's definition of PAS is:


"The parental alienation syndrome (PAS) is a disorder that arises primarily in the context of child-custody disputes. Its primary manifestation is the child's campaign of denigration against a parent, a campaign that has no justification. It results from the combination of a programming (brainwashing) parent's indoctrinations and the child's own contributions to the vilification of the target parent."
(Excerpted from: Gardner, R.A. (1998). The Parental Alienation Syndrome, Second Edition, Cresskill, NJ: Creative Therapeutics, Inc.)

Basically, this means that through verbal and non verbal thoughts, actions and mannerisms, a child is emotionally abused (brainwashed) into thinking the other parent is the enemy. This ranges from bad mouthing the other parent infront of the children, to withholding visits, to pre-arranging the activities for the children while visiting with the other parent.


Which gender is most likely to initiate PAS?
Gardner's statistics showed that the majority of PAS occurrences were initiated by mothers. Mothers have traditionally had primary custody of children (although before the 20th century it normally belonged to the father), and the mothers usually spend more time with the children.

So, basically---some custodial parents want the financial end that they feel they are justified to, but don't feel that the other parent should be entitled to be a parent to their child. Seems like a lose lose situation for a child.

 

[luvsJack]

And if the parents are still together, then that's a decision they are making together. Quite different than one parent saying "Sure, hang out here as long as you like" while expecting the other parent to continue paying for it.

I hope the OP gets legal advice, and then a decision can be made based on that and that alone. IMO, if the support order says that payments stop at 18 unless the child is in school, then a determination needs to be made as to whether or not the child IS still in school. If he is, great. If not, then the father is in no way abandoning his responsbilities if he stops paying child support.

IOW, if custodial mom wants to keep the kid around for the next 20 years, let HER pay for his upkeep.

In this case, the 18 year old is supposedly going to school. If he is in fact attending classes, online or otherwise, then it is the father's responsiblity to provide for the child as much as it is the mother's. I am not in any way saying the father should continue to pay the mother anything; just like in my own case with my ex, the father can help the boy with school by giving the money to him not the mother. And yes, the OP's HUSBAND should get legal advice, its his kid. We don't know if he even has a problem continuing to pay the support, this may all be her issue. And, incidently, just because the order they have now says "18" does not mean it has to stay that way, mine changed after the child turned 18.

As for what I said being a "terrible thing to say". It is terrible that some non custodial parents think that (and I did mean "some" not all and I do apologize for leaving out the word some) 18 is this magic age at which they get let off the hook. As for custodial parents thinking of their child as their "gravy train", I am sure you are right and some do. But there is still that huge percentage that is just trying to provide for their child.

It sounds like too many are assuming that the custodial mother wants to continue supporting this boy for the rest of his life and expects the father to follow suit, that may not be the case at all. The boy will not be able to support himself if he does not get at least a high school education and can't do much with that. When a parent chooses to have a child, they also choose the responsibility of raising that child to be a self-supporting, productvie adult; to whatever extent is possible. That child getting an education is a part of what makes that happen

BTW, I have yet to see or meet a woman whose child support was enough to live on. It helps but just doesn't add up to enough to live on. And if you want a relationship with your child, you make darn sure it happens. The court systems are there for all sides and there is legal assistance there for those who cannot afford it. There is no excuse for not seeing your child and being a part of his/her life unless you can't see them because of a court order.

 

[smfritz03]

With this topic, there is no "right vs wrong" on it. Each circumstance and family is different.

 

[bunny]

In response to the previous post, should the child support amount be enough for the family to live on? If so, that means the custodial parent bears no financial responsibility. The custodial parent should be providing their fair share.

Also in terms of long distance relationships such as the OPs the circumstances are much different than if the child lived with the parents. The custodial parents must maintain a home for the other family members, so there is no way the child's share of the home is $1,500 per month. Also if the child lived in your home you would have a say about how the money gets spent along with, and just as importantly, what the child does with their time. You would help the child decide to stay in school or go to college or join the military or whatever.

In the OP's case, it sounds like "taxation without representation." The OP's husband is paying child support for a young adult he doesn't see often and doesn't have much of a say in what his son does. It is easy to say the father should have kept the lines of communication open better but due to PAS that is not always possible.

 

[I_Know_You2!]

If he doesn't see him often, whose fault is that?

 

[lillygator]

If he doesn't see him often, whose fault is that?

that could be on either side....

 

[I_Know_You2!]

that could be on either side....

I'm thinking not.

It amazes me how many second wives don't want the first families cared for. Wouldn't you (in general) expect it were your marriage to end.

 

[heartsy77]

It is nice too see people giving BOTH points if view on this complex issue!

 

[lillygator]

I'm thinking not.

It amazes me how many second wives don't want the first families cared for. Wouldn't you (in general) expect it were your marriage to end.

I think if they are paying child support they are doing their part right? Each situation is different. I know many a custodial parent who made it down right difficult for visitation.

 

[arielsleepingbeauty]

Kids 18 still need their parents support, emotionally, physically and financially. Heck I am 36 and still need my parents help, except financially. I don't like my ex, but i would never stand in the way of him and my children and if i did i would hope that my children would go searching for their dad when they were old enough. Regardless of whether they are involved or not, he is responsible to help feed, cloth and house them. We actually did account for extracurricular expenses, etc. in figuring the child support. We have to split all extra curricular activities and presents to any parties that my children are invited to. I find this to be fair. He has to pay until they are 18 or until they turn 22 if they are in college. I would think that i would have to show some kind of proof that my children are in college.
If it were me paying the child support, i would wait until i received a copy for the bill for college for proof. I would write the child support check out for the first whole semester and document that on the check. Then write another check when i saw the first report card. The child may try to scam ( i would hope not) but if he/she can't produce it then the parent would only be out a couple of months support. I also think once there is a lapse in schooling that the child support would be discontinued.
That does sound confusing, i know.
I would think though that a parent would want to help out his child and not think of it as a punishment.
I would definately consult a lawyer.

 

[bunny]

It is not necessarily the father's fault. I don't know the whole situation but look at it like this- The mother who is the custodial parent moves away. The father pays 1/3 or more of his income in child support plus any court costs, lawyer fees, etc. The father may be left with a couple thousand a month to live on. How does he then afford $400 to $500 to pay for a airline ticket? What if the mother says she doesn't feel comfortable with the child flying? Should the dad pay $1,000 or more to fly out and see the child for the weekend? And what if he does that and he gets there and the child is busy? What if the father calls the child but the child never calls him back? How many messages does he leave? How many times a day do he call? How does he pay a lawyer to fight this for him? Unfortunately everything in long distance relationships cost money. Most people don't have a bottomless bank account.

 

[luvsJack]

In response to the previous post, should the child support amount be enough for the family to live on? If so, that means the custodial parent bears no financial responsibility. The custodial parent should be providing their fair share. .

No it should not, but several references have been made toward custodial parents using their children's child support to live on.

 

[smfritz03]

Take an avg income of around $30k per year for both parents. Support is set so that a child has the same standard of living as if both parents remained married.

Support avgs out to be $100-$130 a WEEK depending on what state you live in. Take out taxes for federal, state and SSI, etc. Nothing for 401 or anything like that.

That is only leaving the noncustodial parent at around $300-$350 a week to live on. With housing avg around 500-800 a mth plus utilities and food on the rise.........how can they make ends meet? Where the custodial parent will still have their income plus an extra $5k a year and since they have the child lving with them, they can still get gov't assistance, etc.

There has to be a more fair way to figure child support. Some states just aren't fair with they way they compute.

 

[arielsleepingbeauty]

It is not necessarily the father's fault. I don't know the whole situation but look at it like this- The mother who is the custodial parent moves away. The father pays 1/3 or more of his income in child support plus any court costs, lawyer fees, etc. The father may be left with a couple thousand a month to live on. How does he then afford $400 to $500 to pay for a airline ticket? What if the mother says she doesn't feel comfortable with the child flying? Should the dad pay $1,000 or more to fly out and see the child for the weekend? And what if he does that and he gets there and the child is busy? What if the father calls the child but the child never calls him back? How many messages does he leave? How many times a day do he call? How does he pay a lawyer to fight this for him? Unfortunately everything in long distance relationships cost money. Most people don't have a bottomless bank account.

I agree that its not always the fathers that are at fault at all. They should have had someything in their divorce agreement or if not married, go through a lawyer and get a court order that the custodial parent can't move more than a certain amount of miles from the other parent. In my divorce agreement it clearly states that neither one of us is allowed to move more than 120 miles until are children are either 18 or if they are in college, 22. We can move if the other agrees to it.

 

[smfritz03]

I agree that its not always the fathers that are at fault at all. They should have had someything in their divorce agreement or if not married, go through a lawyer and get a court order that the custodial parent can't move more than a certain amount of miles from the other parent. In my divorce agreement it clearly states that neither one of us is allowed to move more than 120 miles until are children are either 18 or if they are in college, 22. We can move if the other agrees to it.

Well, if they divorced 15 years ago, getting those types of parenting rules in the divorce papers weren't as easy or even an option at times.

Courts are hesitant for pursuing contempt charges too. I know a few people who had court ordered visitation for their child where the other parent withheld visits--3 years $3k later--courts still haven't did anything to help out thinking it'll resolve itself.

Maybe in a perfect world it would all be fair and children can be close and have an undisturbed relationship w/ each parent but factually, its not the case. Look at how bogged down family court is over withheld visitation. It's sad.

 

[hurricaneb]

Child support and visitation are two separate issues. A non-custodial parent can refuse to pay the support and still get to see their children. The custodial parent can bring them into court on contempt charges and usually the judge will not put them in jail even if it is their 7th contempt rule.

 

[bunny]

On the flip side, the non-custodial parent could pay child support but have virtually no access to the children. Such is the OP's situation. Believe it or not, Domestic Relations (the agency that collects and distributes the child support) will not even release the children's address without a court order. So the custodial parent can make it extremely difficult to keep in contact with the children with virtually no reprecussions.