Casey Anthony TRIAL thread #2

[T*Bird]

Roy Kronk has a bit of a past. His ex-wife has accused him of abuse. He is estranged from his children. His ex made a big deal about it on the local news that he is crazy about duct tape.

Now, I don't know that any of this has anything to do with the case, but I can see why the defense doesn't want him to open up things that could prove difficult.

It will be interesting to see how they spin the fact that he supposedly found the body weeks before and, for some reason, LE couldn't seem to see it when he directed them to it. His son has claimed that he called to brag about finding the body some time prior to LE responding to it.

The whole thing is just really weird. I don't know that Kronk played a part in the crime, but I wouldn't want him hanging around my neighborhood. Creepy!

It's the prosecution that might have an issue with the Roy Kronk involvement, not the defense. The defense is going to run with it.

Thanks! Unfortunately, that's what I was afraid of. He sounds pretty shady. I don't know how this works: Doesn't the prosecution and defense prepare their witnesses for testifying? If it's a witness like Kronk, who the defense wants to portray as having possible involvement in the case (and after calling him morally bankrupt), how do they prepare him for that?

 

[T*Bird]

Did anyone else watching the exchange between the medical examiner Utz and folksy good ol' boy Mason feel like they were getting together for dinner tonight? I mean, right out of the gate, there was that obnoxious little joke by Mason about him being glad Utz wasn't there for him, or something equally as obnoxious. I mean, I understand an occasional need for levity in the courtroom, but right before talking about this little girl's remains??? When Linda Drane Burdick had to help Mason work the equipment, and she said something about "I don't work for you"...THAT was a light moment. But Mason making a "funny" with the medical examiner...not so much. JMHO

I don't know if it was that witness (I wasn't paying full attention to the TV), but I do remember thinking that some little exchanges were highly inappropriate considering what the focus was today. I agree with you - there is a time and place for humor and joking - and today was neither.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

I can't keep doing this...so so sad. I need to go wake up both of my kids and hug them.

 

[Seahunt]

Remember the heart sticker that had been placed on the duct tape? Oh I wish the FBI wouldn't have destroyed that evidence while looking for fingerprints. I think it would have really meant something to the jury

ORLANDO, Fla. -- It was one of the most jaw-dropping, heart-rending disclosures in the case against accused child killer Casey Anthony: that someone intentionally placed a heart-shaped sticker on the duct tape that was wrapped around her daughter Caylee's skull.

The claim was based on a fingerprint examiner at the Federal Bureau of Investigation laboratory reporting that she saw the shape or outline of a heart on the duct tape.
But Local 6 has learned no one else will ever see what that examiner saw because all traces of it were destroyed by testing at the FBI lab.
The Orange County Sheriff's Office cited that report in obtaining a search warrant for arts and crafts materials in the Anthony family home, swearing the FBI lab "noticed residue in the perfect shape of a heart. The heart was not hand drawn and residue appeared to be consistent with the adhesive side of a heart shaped sticker. It appears the sticker was put on the tape intentionally." The search warrant was approved, and detectives recovered dozens of heart stickers and the empty backings for heart stickers from the Anthony home during the search on Dec. 20, 2008, nine days after Caylee's body was found dumped in nearby woods.
But Local 6 has obtained a report from the FBI laboratory that reveals all traces of such a shape on the duct tape were destroyed by the FBI lab during a fingerprint-testing process and no photograph of the outline of a heart was taken by the FBI before all traces of it were obliterated.
Some evidence photos have been withheld from public release, so it is not known if any other agency took photos that show an outline of a heart on the tape. But there has been no mention of other such photos in any of the discovery released so far.
Without such an image, a jury will never get to see exactly what was on the duct tape and the size of the outline of the heart cannot be exactly compared to the stickers recovered.
Casey Anthony, 23, is charged with first-degree murder, child abuse and other crimes in connection with the murder of Caylee, who was 2 years old when she was reported missing in July 2008. Caylee's remains were found in December. Casey Anthony faces a possible death penalty if convicted.
Anthony's defense team told Local 6 News on Friday that it is aware the evidence was destroyed but would not comment specifically about it. A defense team spokeswoman only said that Anthony's attorneys are moving forward and preparing for trial.
The disclosure that potential evidence was destroyed comes in a document turned over to the defense but not yet released by the Orange-Osceola State Attorney's Office, which has made public 8,000 pages of discovery in the criminal case.
Page 9316 of the discovery, obtained by Local 6 before its official release, is a handwritten FBI Laboratory Activity and Communication Log. In it, FBI lab request coordinator Erin P. Martin makes notes of conversations between FBI agents in the field and the lab in Quantico, Va.
On Dec. 13, two days after the body was found, she describes how Elizabeth K. Fontaine, a forensic examiner in the lab's latent print operations unit, noticed "a heart shape/outline" on the duct tape, but was "unable to see it after powder process." That process is used to lift any fingerprints from materials. No such prints were found on the tape, according to previously released FBI lab reports.
But the presence of a heart shape on the tape begs an obvious question: Did the FBI lab photograph the outline of the heart before it was apparently obliterated by the powder process?
Martin answers the question with her next notation: "No photo of image."
But agents assisting the sheriff's office at the crime scene were clearly intrigued.
Two days later, on Dec. 15, 2008, Martin logs a call from an FBI evidence response team agent working in Orlando: "Agent wanted to know if TEU (the lab's trace evidence unit) saw anything on tape." Martin apparently checks and writes next: "Per TEU: No, didn't see any heart-shaped item."
She then checks again with the latent print unit and writes: "Shape/outline was … near end on non-adh(esive) side."
And that's the last mention of the heart shape in the five-page FBI communication log, which ends on Dec. 22, 2008.
While a jury will apparently never see the image that Fontaine reported seeing, prosecutors could seek to introduce testimony at trial about the shape or outline of a heart on the duct tape.
Former prosecutor Elizabeth Rahter told Local 6 that evidence of the heart on the duct tape could be a big help to a prosecutor trying to implicate a mother in the death of a child.
“Obviously, it's somebody who felt some love or remorse or wanted to give some sign of not just brutality,” she said of the killer, adding the heart may have been a signal that “I killed you, but I'm sorry. I killed you but, I love you anyway."
She said any mistakes by crime labs can raise doubts in jurors’ minds, if they are conditioned to the open-and-shut crime cases seen on shows like CSI.
“Obviously, you always have that human element. So I'm sure she did not intentionally say, 'I'm going to destroy this,'" Rahter said. “And she probably thought it was going to come out better when she started applying the powder used to lift fingerprints."
But, Rahter added, all is not lost for the prosecution, because Fontaine could still testify about what she saw.
“Everybody's a witness, right? So they're either a witness because they've seen something or they know something or they heard something,” Rahter said. “So this person is a person who saw something, so she'll have to testify to it.”
The warrant shows investigators clearly tried to tie any heart stickers found in the Anthony home to the reported shape on the duct tape and another heart sticker found in the woods near Caylee's body. The warrant notes "in the search area investigators located a small heart-shaped sticker similar in size to the residue found on the duct tape."
But the sticker found in the woods was 30 to 40 feet away from where Caylee's skull was found, and it was affixed to cardboard. Also, Local 6 compared it to the heart stickers and sticker sheets found in the Anthony home and found it was not an exact match to any of those photographed and released so far in discovery to the public.
Local 6 left a message with FBI fingerprint analyst Fontaine, asking why she did not take a photo of the image before conducting the powder test that apparently destroyed any trace of it. The phone call has not been returned.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html

 

[T*Bird]

Some of these TV anchors and commentators cannot hide their sensationalist sides. There have been several on TV today who have talked about the horrible photos of Caylee shown in the courtroom today. They try to portray themselves as being sensitive to the serious nature of the pictures, and then turn around and dig whoever was in the courtroom for details. I just watched "Dr. Drew", and he had on as a guest a lady who has been in the courtroom for 2 days, Kelly Heany. She was shown in the video of people running in the stampede to get a seat. Dr. Drew actually asked her these questions: "What did you think of these photos?" Kelly replied that the entire courtroom was pretty much in shock at seeing the photos, they were extremely gruesome, and Judge Perry recommended anyone who was squeamish to leave the courtroom. Dr. Drew's next question: "What was it that was so gruesome about these pictures?" To borrow a line from KC, "Are you kidding me?" Of all the commentators I have heard, Dr. Drew has been by far the worst.

 

[joviroxx]

Looks like Casey will be in court today as per tweets Ive read. (anyone else feel really silly using the word "tweets"?)

I agree about Roy Kronk, he is shady. But I tend to lean on the side of thinking he was actively looking for her to cash in. Although, you never know. Maybe he was brought in by that other shady character, the investigator Dominic (can't remember his last name). Maybe, somehow, Dominic had some connection to him and led him out there thinking its better for a neutral, non-involved, party to find that body. Don't know what the truth may be, but my hinky meter goes up when it comes to Kronk.

Those of you who have been so brave to talk about losing your children, my heart goes out to you. I can't even begin to imagine what must be like. You all have a special angel watching over you.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Remember the heart sticker that had been placed on the duct tape? Oh I wish the FBI wouldn't have destroyed that evidence while looking for fingerprints. I think it would have really meant something to the jury
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html

Ugh. That stinks. It not only takes proof of the sticker's existence out of the mix, but also puts doubt about the lab's methods not to destroy evidence (as the article says). BUT...I thought I saw pictures of the residue somewhere. ?? It's hard to tell tho, what's real and what's not real at this point.

Some of these TV anchors and commentators cannot hide their sensationalist sides. There have been several on TV today who have talked about the horrible photos of Caylee shown in the courtroom today. They try to portray themselves as being sensitive to the serious nature of the pictures, and then turn around and dig whoever was in the courtroom for details. I just watched "Dr. Drew", and he had on as a guest a lady who has been in the courtroom for 2 days, Kelly Heany. She was shown in the video of people running in the stampede to get a seat. Dr. Drew actually asked her these questions: "What did you think of these photos?" Kelly replied that the entire courtroom was pretty much in shock at seeing the photos, they were extremely gruesome, and Judge Perry recommended anyone who was squeamish to leave the courtroom. Dr. Drew's next question: "What was it that was so gruesome about these pictures?" To borrow a line from KC, "Are you kidding me?" Of all the commentators I have heard, Dr. Drew has been by far the worst.

Disgusting. I guess he was going for the "regular person" angle. I would definitely be interested in sitting in the courtroom (not necessarily the last couple of days ), but the "rope drop" and run, and having it shown on TV would definitely deter me, never mind then going on Dr Drew to gush about how emotional it was to be there.

Looks like Casey will be in court today as per tweets Ive read. (anyone else feel really silly using the word "tweets"?)

They're what Dr Vass gives his dog, no?

Just saw a guy on HLN who found his 3 yr old DD in they pool, had stopped breathing, and he did CPR and said he wasn't going to STOP until he saved her. As I feel George would've done.

 

[joviroxx]

.They're what Dr Vass gives his dog, no?

.

Ok, almost spit out my drink with that one! LMAO!

 

[joviroxx]

Just saw a guy on HLN who found his 3 yr old DD in they pool, had stopped breathing, and he did CPR and said he wasn't going to STOP until he saved her. As I feel George would've done.

 

[T*Bird]

Disgusting. I guess he was going for the "regular person" angle. I would definitely be interested in sitting in the courtroom (not necessarily the last couple of days ), but the "rope drop" and run, and having it shown on TV would definitely deter me, never mind then going on Dr Drew to gush about how emotional it was to be there.

I just thought it was sick the way Dr. Drew kept pushing for the gory details. I think by now everyone knows how disturbing the photos were. But after asking her what she thought of the pix, he had to go further and ask her exactly what was so gruesome. It's like he wanted to hear every detail about the matted hair, the eye sockets, every gory thing we heard yesterday. And he professes that it makes him almost physically ill to think of what Caylee went through. So why the continued digging for more gruesome images? He's not the only one I've seen do this, but the way he kept going on and on last night made me sick.

 

[PUZZLDY5]

A friend of mine mentioned to me that she would give Caylee Xanax to put her to sleep at night so she could go party and that when it stopped working she had to find a new way to make her go to sleep so she could party. Is this true?

(I will admit I am late to the program here. Just started watching a few days ago so if this question has been addressed before I apologize)

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Looks like Casey will be in court today as per tweets Ive read. (anyone else feel really silly using the word "tweets"?)

I agree about Roy Kronk, he is shady. But I tend to lean on the side of thinking he was actively looking for her to cash in. Although, you never know. Maybe he was brought in by that other shady character, the investigator Dominic (can't remember his last name). Maybe, somehow, Dominic had some connection to him and led him out there thinking its better for a neutral, non-involved, party to find that body. Don't know what the truth may be, but my hinky meter goes up when it comes to Kronk.

Those of you who have been so brave to talk about losing your children, my heart goes out to you. I can't even begin to imagine what must be like. You all have a special angel watching over you.

But that is the purpose of rewards. It is to inspire ANYONE out there--involved or not, to provide whatever they know or if they discover or witness something to share it.

I am sure the Defense will make it out like he was trying to win the lottery. But that reward possibly made him curious enough to find what his client refused to look for--Caylee.

And given testimony thus far, there was never a snowball's chance in Hades that Caylee would be found alive.

They can try to paint him out at they wish, but it won't change the fact that the evidence shows that unless he hooked up with Casey and GA at this supposed accidental drowning, they just aren't going to be able to reasonably tie him to it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

A friend of mine mentioned to me that she would give Caylee Xanax to put her to sleep at night so she could go party and that when it stopped working she had to find a new way to make her go to sleep so she could party. Is this true?

(I will admit I am late to the program here. Just started watching a few days ago so if this question has been addressed before I apologize)

It is just theories.

There is no evidence that can back up that claim.

Unless Casey wants to share this with us on the witness stand, we will just never know.

 

[joviroxx]

But that is the purpose of rewards. It is to inspire ANYONE out there--involved or not, to provide whatever they know or if they discover or witness something to share it.

I am sure the Defense will make it out like he was trying to win the lottery. But that reward possibly made him curious enough to find what his client refused to look for--Caylee.

And given testimony thus far, there was never a snowball's chance in Hades that Caylee would be found alive.

They can try to paint him out at they wish, but it won't change the fact that the evidence shows that unless he hooked up with Casey and GA at this supposed accidental drowning, they just aren't going to be able to reasonably tie him to it.

You are right and make perfect sense. But you know how sometimes you just have a feeling about something? For some reason, there is something about this whole Kronk thing that seems fishy.

Do I care that it sounds fishy to me? Nope. It helped find Caylee. For all his "oddness", thank heavens for Roy Kronk! I only bring it up because I can completely understand why the prosecution does or might not call him. He might not play well to the jury and complicate matters.

 

[joviroxx]

The dramatic way Casey looks away from these pics is ridiculous. That whole looking down thing.. ugh.. There are many ways to avoid looking at pics without an obvious screaming of the fact to make sure every notices.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

A friend of mine mentioned to me that she would give Caylee Xanax to put her to sleep at night so she could go party and that when it stopped working she had to find a new way to make her go to sleep so she could party. Is this true?

(I will admit I am late to the program here. Just started watching a few days ago so if this question has been addressed before I apologize)

That theory is all over this and the other thread. If you want to see more discussion about it, you can try doing a search of this thread or the other one.

Does everyone know that individual threads can be searched? Because every so often I find out I can do something on the DIS that I had no idea about, even after all this time.

But that is the purpose of rewards. It is to inspire ANYONE out there--involved or not, to provide whatever they know or if they discover or witness something to share it.

I am sure the Defense will make it out like he was trying to win the lottery. But that reward possibly made him curious enough to find what his client refused to look for--Caylee.

And given testimony thus far, there was never a snowball's chance in Hades that Caylee would be found alive.

They can try to paint him out at they wish, but it won't change the fact that the evidence shows that unless he hooked up with Casey and GA at this supposed accidental drowning, they just aren't going to be able to reasonably tie him to it.

Exactly! If I knew that there was a reward, and had a job that brought me all over the general area, I would be...at the very least...more aware of my surroundings. I AM curious how the defense is going to spin this tho.

It is just theories.

There is no evidence that can back up that claim.

Unless Casey wants to share this with us on the witness stand, we will just never know.

In a nutshell!

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

The dramatic way Casey looks away from these pics is ridiculous. That whole looking down thing.. ugh.. There are many ways to avoid looking at pics without an obvious screaming of the fact to make sure every notices.

Maybe we'll have another short day again. If she keeps that frown going, she's going to get a headache.

I hate when the defense cross examines. The whole bunch of them...such annoying creatures.

No duct tape completely encircling the head. Was not on the back of the head, per Dr Utz medical examiner.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You are right and make perfect sense. But you know how sometimes you just have a feeling about something? For some reason, there is something about this whole Kronk thing that seems fishy.

Do I care that it sounds fishy to me? Nope. It helped find Caylee. For all his "oddness", thank heavens for Roy Kronk! I only bring it up because I can completely understand why the prosecution does or might not call him. He might not play well to the jury and complicate matters.

Also, I'm not sure him testifying adds anything to the prosecution's case. He didn't witness anything that forensics wouldn't be better equipped to testify to for the prosecution.

My take on the defense--most anything they bring up, I think prosecution will be successful at cross examining.

As far as why it took him multiple calls to 911--as big as the case is, we would have heard about a discovery in August had the police been able to follow up properly on it. And then it would have been plastered everywhere that her remains have been found. As skeevy as he is, I have no doubt that he got curious and wanted to recheck it out.

But if Casey gets to say her daddy abused her forcing her to party after finding her deceased baby girl....I'm okay with Kronk claiming he was only going tinkle in the woods.

 

[chris1gill]

I hate Mason, I just want to get that out there.... I have only bad words to say about him...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Maybe we'll have another short day again. If she keeps that frown going, she's going to get a headache.

I hate when the defense cross examines. The whole bunch of them...such annoying creatures.

No duct tape completely encircling the head. Was not on the back of the head, per Dr Utz medical examiner.

I think this is what the defense hopes the jury will think: "Well that makes it all better then. Clearly if she were trying to murder that child, she would have known to go ALLLLL the way around."