Cannot believe this is happening. Teacher lied about my son.

[lovetoscrap]

OP, I would drop it all of it except the part about how it was said that the next there would be a "major consequence" I would ask that this incident basically be dropped since it doesn't seem like it can be determined what happened to everyone's satisfaction and that IF there is another incident that it will NOT involve a major consequence. (does that make sense?)

Frankly my hill to be standing on is why wasn't the Para close enough to prevent the child from causing your son pain. While obviously there are varying opinions on if the para needs to be right there helping or can step away, if the child is not behaving and not keeping his hands to himself then he needs more supervision. If the district is paying for a one on one para for him then obviously there are reasons that he needs it and for the safety of that child and the others the para should be attentive enough to see that he is twisting a child's arm and be able to react. Yes, things happen in a blink of an eye but the goal is to try to prevent that.

Life isn't always fair. How you teach your child to deal with it now will have a huge effect on his future. I would rather my kids learn that for a lot of things you just have to say "that stinks" and then move on.

When I was at a loss as to how to explain these kind of people to DD I once told her that they needed more fiber in their diets. She cracked up and from then on when she would describe some minor grumpy behavior incident we would look at each other and say "fiber". She knows I'm on her side and doesn't take things so personally. Sometimes when I'm in a bad mood and I know I may have been unfair I apologize and say that I must need fiber too. I want her to know that everyone has bad days and some have more than others.

I LOVE THIS! I think I am going to adopt it too!

 

[wishspirit]

As a para myself (in England we call them Learning Support Assistants, or LSA's), I will give you my perspective.

It is never nice when you feel like the person who is spending a massive amount of time with your child isn't supporting them the way they should do, and in that respect you are absolutely right to tell the staff how you feel and discuss it with them. I would much prefer a parent to come to me, rather than build up resentment and distrust. Probably a better was to handle it would of been talking to the child themselves and talking about why we don't say that word in our classroom, and how we all have to show our friends what good behaviour is.

However, a good LSA is not by the side of the child all the time, in fact I am often running other activities or helping other children with an eye on my 1:1. LSA's get very used to hearing over a crowd and watching the child, even when they may think we are far away. This lady obviously has her 1:1's best interests at heart, and realises what effect him saying 'kill' has on his socialisation.

I know I am also very firm with my 1:1's friends about the rules, as they are the ones they are modelling from, but I try the firm but fair approach. I know this can often be a burden for them, so I also always make sure their efforts are recognised, with stickers and praise for being good friends. Your son probably got hit hard with the rules because he is so close to his friend, hopefully they make up for that in other ways.

However, teachers and LSA's have a very strong bond. They have to work together, plan together, negotiate with each other, etc. If a teacher started 'calling me out' on judgement calls I make, it would hurt that relationship. We have to trust each other. The teacher was doing the right thing by her work partner in supporting her judgement, even though it may of been misinformed.

I think the best thing to do is to have a quick chat with your son about how we need to act around our friends and show them how to behave, and that if someone is hurting you- you call for help straight away! Then just drop it with the teacher, but keep wary for similar incidents. Also keep a note of these sort of reports home, the date etc, so that if there is something really wrong with the teaching, then you have evidence to back you up.

I hope it was just a rough day, and that your son keeps having fun at school with his friends!

 

[Magpie]

Let's be honest, there really is no 100% way for someone who was not there to determine what exactly happened.
I'd drop it.
The best life advice you can give your son is to tell him that people make mistakes. Teachers, mom and dad, grandma and grandpa, best friends and girl friends, and your son will all make judgement mistakes. The people who can put themselves above that, are the ones that will thrive.
Life isn't fair.

This is exactly what I was thinking as I was reading this thread.

Life ISN'T fair. Let it go, and move on.

I don't know how many times I've listened to my kids tell me some tale of adult unfairness from school and said, "Wow, that sucks. I can definitely see why you don't like that teacher. Do you have any idea how you can avoid getting in trouble in the future?"

Now, it's a different issue if I see my child getting depressed and saying things like, "I'm the worst kid in the class!" because a teacher is singling her out and making her sit in the hallway day after day. When that started happening, I worked with my daughter, created a logbook to communicate with the teacher (and noticed she NEVER wrote anything nice!), had a phone call, two meetings, and when I wasn't satisfied we were making progress, I pulled my child from her class. We were out before November.

But in the OP's case, I'd drop it. He said/she said never works out well.

 

[palavra]

What makes me the most sad about this whole thread is the amount of people telling me to not stand up for my son because "teacher's talk" and they will take it out on my son. How sad for a parent to have to choose between standing up for their own child, or letting it go because they don't want the consequence that is sure to come.

I have let a lot of stuff go this year, believe me. This one I am choosing to stand up for my child. Right or wrong. If it has a bad affect on how he is treated, I will pull him out of the school. The superintendant lives in my neighborhood as well, and my friend walks with his wife everyday. She has been pushing me to get him involved all year because of the stuff my son has been going through since the beginning of the year. I have not done so hoping to be able to work things out without getting that high up invloved. In fact, this is the first time the principal has been invloved. Maybe she is right.

BTW - my sister, who is the principal of an elemantary school, said that the school handled this all wrong and thinks that I am right for standing up for my son.

That is not why many of the posters have suggested that you let it go. The problem is that you are trying force the school to choose between your child and one of its employees on hearsay.

Fwiw, I've been a teacher for many years, and I don't know of a single incidence in which a student has been mistreated by a teacher because of something that another teacher has said. In general, we don't try to "take it out" on our students. It seems to me that you already have several issues with the school, but if you don't trust any of the people that your son is around, you really don't have much choice but to move him to another school.

 

[Magic Mom]

How would two 1st graders one of whom is physically assulting the other and the other being so terrorized that he is screaming he is being killed, know that a teacher was standing all the way across the vast expanse of lunch room socializing with another adult, and not even paying any attention to them?

 

[Hannathy]

Frankly my hill to be standing on is why wasn't the Para close enough to prevent the child from causing your son pain. While obviously there are varying opinions on if the para needs to be right there helping or can step away, if the child is not behaving and not keeping his hands to himself then he needs more supervision. If the district is paying for a one on one para for him then obviously there are reasons that he needs it and for the safety of that child and the others the para should be attentive enough to see that he is twisting a child's arm and be able to react. Yes, things happen in a blink of an eye but the goal is to try to prevent that.

This exactly she is being paid to do 1:1 with this child. she should be within arms reach at all times to keep him from hurting someone or else he doesn't need 1:1 and the taxpayers can save a ton of money! He either does or he doesn't there is no in between.

 

[Disney Doll]

OP, you posted that the principal said that if you had any concerns, that you two should meet.

Since you still seem to have concerns, then you two should meet.
I'd call for a meeting and then go with a list of my concerns regarding this incident.

If you are still not satisfied, then I would recommend checking out a different school, since your distrust of the faculty is going to negatively impact your child's school experience.

 

[Jellical Cat]

Sad, but unfortunately, some do ... a quick story (Reader's Digest version)... my friend had an issue with a popular teacher in her DD's elementary school ... she addressed it with the principal & superintendent and thought the matter was resolved ... the following school year, her DD started to be afraid of school, not wanting to go, having panic attacks, etc. ... so over the course of a few months, my friend had numerous meetings with her teacher, principal, school psychologist to figure out what was troubling her daughter ... when no one could come up with an answer or solution, she went to the Superintendent as a last resort ... he actually did a private investigation on his own and found out that my friend's DD was being bullied & picked on by some teachers in her elementary school! ... (most likely because of my friend's complaint regarding the popular teacher from the previous school year) ... the Superintendent was mortified by his findings and the teachers were reprimanded, (not much more could be done because of tenure) ... my friend then had the option to sue the school district or transfer her DD to another school in the same district ... since she wasn't planning on moving out of town, and to avoid anymore trouble for her daughter, she chose the latter and transferred her daughter to another school ... and thankfully, her DD now is no longer afraid to go to school anymore or having anymore panic attacks and is having a great school year this year ...

I'm not saying that this could/would happen in the OP's case ... but sometimes we need to choose our battles carefully ...

I know things like this happen, but I am always shocked each time I hear it. Kudos to the Supt. for getting to the bottom of it. It couldn't have been an easy task.

 

[wishspirit]

This exactly she is being paid to do 1:1 with this child. she should be within arms reach at all times to keep him from hurting someone or else he doesn't need 1:1 and the taxpayers can save a ton of money! He either does or he doesn't there is no in between.

That is exactly what she is not meant to do!! If you constantly hover, they learn to not do anything for themselves. Yes, they should be close enough to stop an altercation, but that can't always happen, best as we may try. Children can't learn to socialise properly with an adult constantly there.

 

[Hannathy]

That is exactly what she is not meant to do!! If you constantly hover, they learn to not do anything for themselves. Yes, they should be close enough to stop an altercation, but that can't always happen, best as we may try. Children can't learn to socialise properly with an adult constantly there.

Normal children yes!! This child has been deemed a danger to the other children and needs 1:1 to prevent this. she can not stop him from hurting another child from across the room. she should be near the child at all times and across a cafeteria is not near the child. His learning to do things for himself should not come at the expense or harm of other children.

 

[wishspirit]

The para may not be hired to stand right over him, but something tells me she is not paid to stand on the other side of the room and socialize either. I would think transition times like lunch are when she is needed to be fairly close to him.

What a child may say is socialising, the para would probably say way relaying important information. When you are on a 1:1, you very rarely have time during the school day to communicate about things happening that day- so you often do a quick catch up with the teacher or whoever is around that you need to speak to whilst keeping an eye on your 1:1.

For me, lunch times is actually when I try and stay as 'hands off' as possible. They have had me with them all morning trying to teach them, which can be stressful and tiring. They need a break and a chat with their friends without me hovering too conspicuously. I am also a lunch monitor too, so I am helping other children cut their food or deal with spilt drinks etc. Yes I still watch, but eating is a social activity, and is a good opportunity to gain important social skills.

 

[wishspirit]

Normal children yes!! This child has been deemed a danger to the other children and needs 1:1 to prevent this. she can not stop him from hurting another child from across the room. she should be near the child at all times and across a cafeteria is not near the child. His learning to do things for himself should not come at the expense or harm of other children.

You are assuming that this child needs 1:1 because he is a danger to himself or others. It could be to facilitate his access to learning, it could be because his speech and communication needs support, it could be due to complex feeding, medical or toileting needs, to could be due to an physical disability. You don't know, and without reading that child's statement, and knowing that child well, you will never know.

Across a lunch room to one person, may be 3 seconds dash to another. Moving to one side of a lunch room to quickly chat to a co-worker, unless that child was extremely dangerous to themselves or others, should not be a problem. If this is consistent behaviour, then his needs must be readdressed and see if mainstream schooling is the best choice for him.

This is an experienced para, she should know what is safe and what is not for that child.

 

[Magic Mom]

Normal children yes!! This child has been deemed a danger to the other children and needs 1:1 to prevent this. she can not stop him from hurting another child from across the room. she should be near the child at all times and across a cafeteria is not near the child. His learning to do things for himself should not come at the expense or harm of other children.

When did the OP say this child has been deemed a danger to other children. She said her job was to help him get his tray and take it to the table.

 

[okeydokey]

You say you want to stick up for your child and that is what you have you done. Now you need to move on. Tell your son that adults make mistakes too and that you know he is a good kid and a good friend.

 

[Scurvy]

This is going to be long, so I apologize ahead of time.

My son is in the 1st grade. There is an autistic child in his class whom he gets along with pretty well. The problem is that when the two of them get into trouble, only my son can get disciplined because the child has and IEP and he cannot get in trouble like the other children, only sent to the resource room. This child has a history in blurting out the word "kill" in the middle of class for no apparent reason. So the class had a long talk about saying that word and how they are not allowed to say it. Fine.

The other day my son gets a note home saying that he got in trouble at lunch for saying the word kill and that if it happened again, there would be a major consequence. That was all it said. So I asked my son about it and he said this child was in line next to him, twisting him arm. When he was asked to stop, he did not. So my son said "you're killing me!" and got into trouble for it. I asked him who he got into trouble from and he told me that name of the para that is assigned to this other child. Apparently her job is to be with him all day to make sure that he is not getting out of line.

So I called the teacher and left her a message letting her know that we got the note and talked to my son about not saying that word again. I also explained what he told me was going on in the line and what exactly he said he said to this child. She called me back the next day and quite rudely told me that she talked to the para and the para said that it did not happen at all like my son said. The para said that she was standing by the boys and overhead my son tell the other one to say the word kill, like egging him on. She said "that is all the information I have because I was not there". I said OK and hung up the phone.

I later talked to my son and told him what the para said and he said "that's not true!" "she was not even near us!". I asked him where she was and he told me across the room talking with another adult. So at this point I am extremely confused as to how she could have heard him say anything when she was not there. So I asked him how she knew he said anything and he told me the other child ran out of line and went up to the para and told her something. She came over and told my son he was in trouble and she was telling the teacher.

At this point my husband and I are pretty upset because it has seemed all year that he has been picked on by his teacher, but we always let it go because we did not want to make waves for him. So my husband calls the teacher and sets up a meeting for the next morning. The teacher agrees and tells him the principal will be there as well. When they sit down DH asked the teacher again to tell the para's side of the story and it was the same as what she had told me. He then tells the teacher and principal our son’s side. Their response was that the para has worked there for a long time and they saw no reason that she would lie about it. The principal said that sometimes kids make things up to try and get out of trouble. My DH agrees but said that my son was not trying to get out of trouble, he agreed that he said "kill", but says he DID NOT tell this other child to say kill. He also told them that our son said the para was not even standing there. Again they said that there was no reason for the para to lie about what happened but the teacher said she would talk to the para again. The teacher called back that day and said that the para's story has not changed and she maintains that she was standing there and heard my son say this. That my son was not telling the truth. My DH said "I hope he is the one that is lying because it is a much larger issue if it is the para". They both agreed and acted as if she would get into huge trouble if that were the case.

Over the weekend we tried to trip our son up. Trying to get him to admit he was making it up. He never faltered and maintained that it happened the way he said it.

On Sunday I emailed the principal and asked him to talk with both boys separately to ask them what happened that day. He did. I got an email this afternoon telling me that while one boy said his arm was being twisted, the other one maintains that he did not. Ok, fine, not a big deal. Then he said what they did both say was that the para was across the room and nowhere near them. He then proceeds to tell me that things happened with kids in the blink of an eye and that it is all fine because both boys really get along and seem to be great friends. That if I wanted to discuss it further, please feel free to contact him. Not ONE mention of the fact that his employee would be talked to about lying about my son! Not even an acknowledgement that she could not have heard my son say ANYTHING because she was not there!

I am so blown away and I don't even know what to do at this point. I feel that at the very least, this woman, and frankly his teacher as well, owe my son an apology for lying about him! His teacher never even asked him what happened! She just assumed that the para was right and he was wrong.

So what do you think I should do? I just feel like someone punched my gut knowing that an adult who is supposed to be someone my son can trust, totally lied about him to save her own butt.

Why would both boys lie about the para not being there? There would be no reason to lie about that. They both were asked where she was, and they both said the exact same place. Near the door, talking with another teacher.

We have tried on several occasions to meet with her. The first time we were told she does not come in that early (our meeting was at 8:00) and the other time the principal said that she was his employee and he would deal with her. So it is not like we have not tried to meet with her. They are not wanting us to, for whatever reason.

I am not blaming the teacher for not being there, I am upset that she did not even ask my son what happened and right off the bat decided that he was lying.

OP, I'm sorry you feel that your child isn't being treated well. I understand that you feel that the paraprofessional is lying, but I urge you not to use that word when dealing with the school. If you feel that there has been a misinderstanding then you ought to request a meeting to discuss this further with the principal, but you should try to avoid using inflammatory language. I would also avoid referring to the other child's condition or any accomodations that must be made for him, because that is something that the school is not supposed to discuss with you and unless the child's parents have told you the details themselves, you should not be aware of them.

Personally, I would be hesitant to believe that the adult was lying simply because childrens' perceptions tend to be different than that of adults. It's possible that she wasn't as far away as the children think she was, and that she was able to hear the boys from where she was standing. But if you have reason to believe that she is lying, and you feel that the action taken so far is inappropriate, then request a meeting and discuss it. I agree with Disney Doll that if you are unsatisfied after the meeting, perhaps you should look into another school since it's never good to have a child in a school where you don't trust the people working there.

As far as the paraprofessional needing to be within arm's reach at all times, that can vary wildly from one case to the next. I've known several students who had a full time aide assigned to them but the aide did not need to be that close at all times. I've actually never encountered a student who was in a mainstream classroom and required that someone be that close every minute, though I'm sure there are some students like that.

 

[wishspirit]

I do think this parent is making too big of a deal out of this and is coming on too strong (and that's saying a lot if you knew me). However you're slightly wrong with this statement. If a child has a one-on-one para they should be near that child. They are not there to supervise any other children so there is no need for them to be across the room. A child who is given a one-on-one is likely prone to sudden, impulsive decisions and a para wouldn't be able to stop him from hurting himself or other from across the room.

I am hired to look after every child I meet, it is called a duty of care. It is about knowing that child. I know that my 1:1 is not likely to hurt another child intentionally. They are likely to stick their finger in their friend's pudding, which the other child may not like, but they aren't likely to get hurt.
So if I need to talk to another member of staff, or deal with a child whose spilt their milk/hurt themselves/ has had an argument, I know that as long as I check back with a glance every 30 seconds or so, we should be set. I also have a duty of care to make sure no one else is getting hurt.
Would I behave that way if the child was violent? No!
Would I behave that way if a child was likely to hurt themselves? No!
Do I believe that constantly hovering is detrimental? Yes, as long as you know the child well enough to make those decisions.

Plus, all the children who are around my 1:1 know they can come to me, shout for me or whatever and I will come. If my 1:1 does anything they aren't happy with, they can call me, and I will sort it- even if that is hugging them when the child's mouth is covered in yoghurt!

 

[tw1nsmom]

I am hired to look after every child I meet, it is called a duty of care. It is about knowing that child. I know that my 1:1 is not likely to hurt another child intentionally. They are likely to stick their finger in their friend's pudding, which the other child may not like, but they aren't likely to get hurt.
So if I need to talk to another member of staff, or deal with a child whose spilt their milk/hurt themselves/ has had an argument, I know that as long as I check back with a glance every 30 seconds or so, we should be set. I also have a duty of care to make sure no one else is getting hurt.
Would I behave that way if the child was violent? No!
Would I behave that way if a child was likely to hurt themselves? No!
Do I believe that constantly hovering is detrimental? Yes, as long as you know the child well enough to make those decisions.

Plus, all the children who are around my 1:1 know they can come to me, shout for me or whatever and I will come. If my 1:1 does anything they aren't happy with, they can call me, and I will sort it- even if that is hugging them when the child's mouth is covered in yoghurt!

I see that you are in England. I'm referring to U.S.federal law IDEA 2004. If a child is given a 1:1 aide then that aide is supposed to be with that child or have turned over responsibility for that child to another adult (teacher, therapist...). Too often in U.S. schools the schools use 1:1 paras or even shared paras that are part of an IEP as classroom aides. If a teacher needs classroom aides (making copies, supervising lunch rooms...) they need to hire general classroom aides.

My DS has had a shared aide since kindergarten. I am constantly struggling to get the school to follow his IEP. I'm told that there are too many other children to take care of to help my DS, but when I ask how many identified children he shares an aide with I'm told 2. Yet, when I'm around the aide is videotaping teacher lessons, making copies, getting materials ready for the entire class, preparing for parties, etc. If they don't have time to complete a materials checklist to make sure DS brings everything home that he needs, then they don't have time for those other things. When Ds was in second grade he was shoved to the ground and pinned there by an older child. He was stuck until his twin sister and some other girls came to his rescue. His aide? Talking to all the other aides at the edge of the playground. She didn't know anything had happened until my DS was brought to her, bleeding. Along with organizational needs he needs help with social and safety issues.

I know the aides are doing their best and are often following instruction from the school administration. However, school administrators aren't always following the law. I have a masters in teaching. One of my graduate professors once told me that he knew the law but that he would do what needed to and what he thought was right, regardless of the law, until a parent sued him. I don't believe that the situation in the OP's case warrants a lawsuit at all, but I am saying that just because you're following district guidelines doesn't mean you're following U.S. special education law.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, I fully agree that there is no real chance at all that the Para was right there. Both boys have said otherwise. This makes her a liar... plain and simple. A liar is a liar... If she would so confidently lie about where she was and what she heard, there can be no expectation that anything she says can be held as truth.

And, it seems apparent, by the established pattern, that as this boys Para, she has no problem, even lying if necessary, to make sure that in any situation, the 'other' kid takes the fall.

I would recommend that you tell your son to steer clear of this kid... not because of his autism, but because of this adult.

However, at this point, the way this situation has been handled.... I think you have already crossed over into that proverbial line... and I do not see any satisfactory resolution.

You are not going to get a meeting with the Para.
You are not going to get the admission of any wrong by the Para.
That's just the way it's gonna be.

As SAD as it is for this disabled child... I think you need to encourage your son to steer clear of him in order to stay out of trouble.

I would thank the school politely for answering your concerns, but also advise them that you hope that you can not expect any more of these questionable situations.

You need to let this one blow over, but be VERY prepared to handle this in a more direct and confident manner ( an immediate meeting with the PARA and the principal) if anything worse does happen.

This time it was just a note about a troublesome word.
Save your ammunition...
Next time it could be very serious accusations and suspension over allegations of 'threats', physical assault, etc...
And, in fact, I would consider that note, and the mention of serious consequences as a forewarning.
All this other kid has to do is say anything more at all about what your kid may have said... and the consequences could be dire.
In this day of 'zero tolerance'...
While I see no resolution this time.
You do need to be prepared for any eventuality.

Let this one go, for now...
But, I don't know if this is over by any means...
The school year is not yet halfway over.

 

[brockash]

Why would both boys lie about the para not being there? There would be no reason to lie about that. They both were asked where she was, and they both said the exact same place. Near the door, talking with another teacher.

We have tried on several occasions to meet with her. The first time we were told she does not come in that early (our meeting was at 8:00) and the other time the principal said that she was his employee and he would deal with her. So it is not like we have not tried to meet with her. They are not wanting us to, for whatever reason.

I am not blaming the teacher for not being there, I am upset that she did not even ask my son what happened and right off the bat decided that he was lying.

I've gotta say, I have to agree. I have no idea if your son is lying about what he said or not, it wouldn't surprise me, because he's a kid, but that's really not the point anymore. I can't imagine 2 kids that age, would get together and figure out that they should both lie about where the para was. It just doesn't make sense and seems really unlikely. I'm not sure what else you can do, but I agree that I certainly wouldn't trust not that para at all, or really the school for that matter. Good luck!

 

[goofy!]

Like I said, her job is to be with him regardless if she thinks he needs her assistance or not. She was not with him and he could have been inflicting harm on another child. So maybe she lied to save her butt?

As a para myself (and a mother to a child with special needs), I can guarantee you that you have absolutely no idea what the Para's duties were that day.

The main job description of a para is to be flexible.

Even as a one-on-one para, your approach to the child will change daily depending on what goals are being worked on, the child's frame of mind that day, etc. The para will meet with the team in the morning and goals will be set for THAT day.

For any child on any IEP, the common goal is to get the child as independent as possible so as to best prepare them for the outside world.

So, for instance, that day, it may have been decided to see how independent the child is in the lunchroom. A para's duty is to teach, pull back to see if the lesson is learned and then step back again if needed. It sounds like this is what the para was doing, not as you are accusing, doing her job.

I can also guarantee you that every single para I know, when they step back, will always have their eyes and ears focused on the child to see how they are doing.

I sincerely doubt the Para lied about your child to "cover their butt."