Cannot believe this is happening. Teacher lied about my son.

[floridasunshiney]

What a huge difference of opinions, and they are just that opinions, neither right nor wrong.

I help out in my child's school because two teachers in particular just want to have a gossip when they get together, I have witnessed a child fall and smash their face, and the teachers in question were oblivious to the fact until a passerby told them. I go on every trip because I do not feel the staff are competent to watch the children, I am not going to make an issue with the school over it as I am able to be there. Yes teachers and the TAs talk and parents who have rocked the boat have totally been ignored by many a staff member, which I find totally childish.

Of course children can make mistakes and can also lie through their teeth, but so do adults, more so when they are trying to cover their mistakes or wrong doings. This Para is never going to admit she did anything wrong, if she in fact did, you are very unlikely to find the answers you want, however frustrating that is. My older child was picked on and I contacted the school, for the next two years she was picked on by some teachers, when she got the courage to tell me what was going on I was like a dog with a bone. I did not let it rest, I did move her school as I didn't feel reassured that this would stop. The teachers all rallied together denying it all, forgetting that it was all captured on CCTV, so yes, they do lie.

So I guess what I am saying is, in my opinion, I do not think the OP is over reacting, I would die on any hill to protect my children and just brushing it aside does not instill confidence in my child to deal with what they feel are unjust decisions, I would have as many meetings that I wanted until I felt comfortable that the situation had been resolved, I would not let the fact that teachers talk belittle me. If at the end of it I still had a gut feeling things were not right I would move my child. No child is beyond some form of telling off, appropriate for their level of understanding. At the end of the day it's the parents call and not everyone is going to handle it the same way, but I do find some of the comments to the OP who is clearly distressed about their childs well being quite hurtful for them. If you have not been in this situation, it is harder to make a judgement.

 

[kappy]

This is exactly what I was thinking as I was reading this thread.

Life ISN'T fair. Let it go, and move on.

I don't know how many times I've listened to my kids tell me some tale of adult unfairness from school and said, "Wow, that sucks. I can definitely see why you don't like that teacher. Do you have any idea how you can avoid getting in trouble in the future?"

Now, it's a different issue if I see my child getting depressed and saying things like, "I'm the worst kid in the class!" because a teacher is singling her out and making her sit in the hallway day after day. When that started happening, I worked with my daughter, created a logbook to communicate with the teacher (and noticed she NEVER wrote anything nice!), had a phone call, two meetings, and when I wasn't satisfied we were making progress, I pulled my child from her class. We were out before November.But in the OP's case, I'd drop it. He said/she said never works out well.

See this is the problem. This IS my child. Ever since the beginning of the year he has been depressed saying things about never being born and dying. Being a bad kid. Feeling like the teacher is picking on him. We placed him in therapy immediately and it does help. But then every day, he walks into that same enviroment and feels terrible. It is like 1 step forward and 2 steps back, almost every day.

We did the notebook thing and I noticed the exact same thing that you did, she never says anything nice about him. Or if she does, it is followed by a "but he did this wrong".

This is not me jumping all over the school over one instance. This is the straw that broke the camels back after countless meetings with the teacher about my son and how he feels picked on.

 

[Lauralee]

This is going to be long, so I apologize ahead of time.

My son is in the 1st grade. There is an autistic child in his class whom he gets along with pretty well. The problem is that when the two of them get into trouble, only my son can get disciplined because the child has and IEP and he cannot get in trouble like the other children, only sent to the resource room. This child has a history in blurting out the word "kill" in the middle of class for no apparent reason. So the class had a long talk about saying that word and how they are not allowed to say it. Fine.

The other day my son gets a note home saying that he got in trouble at lunch for saying the word kill and that if it happened again, there would be a major consequence. That was all it said. So I asked my son about it and he said this child was in line next to him, twisting him arm. When he was asked to stop, he did not. So my son said "you're killing me!" and got into trouble for it. I asked him who he got into trouble from and he told me that name of the para that is assigned to this other child. Apparently her job is to be with him all day to make sure that he is not getting out of line.

Was it the teacher who sent this note home? After reading most of the pp's, I agree there's not much more you can do at this time.

HOWEVER, if I was in your shoes I'd make an appointment with the principal to discuss how this incident is being documented in your child's file, and what the "major consequence" would be. THIS would be the big issue with me now.

I would type up a document that details your son's side of the story, what the IEP student said, and what you gathered from your conversations with the school staff. Keep a copy for yourself and give the principal a copy. A paper trail could be your best defense in case there is a future episode with this child. Don't trust it to people's memories.......write it down.

I'd also state in writing that if there IS a future incident between your son and the IEP student, that you be notified immediately and that your son be separated from him until you and the school can come up with a plan that protects both children.

Since the school is going to play hardball here and make written threats about "consequences," make a few of your own too!

 

[OceanAnnie]

If the para is being paid to be with the child she should be with the child and that is what I would be asking the principal. Why was she not with him?

I would also tell my son to not be anywhere near this child. do not stand in line next to him, do not sit next to him, period and I would tell the teacher and principal the same thing. that I do not want my child near this child. And if he finds himself next to him he is to get out of line and go to the back of the line away from the child. I also think I would be stopping in a few lunches to see if the para was with him. I also would be telling my child that IF that child TOUCHES him in any way shape or form he is to immediately tell the teacher, lunch aid and me when he gets home. And if he hurts him to ask to go to the office so it is documented.

I do not go along with the no punishment, if the child is high enough functioning to be in a classroom then they need to follow the same rules and punishments. If he is hurting children he does not belong with them and the para should be fired if her job is to keep him from doing so.

Sage advice. ITA.

See this is the problem. This IS my child. Ever since the beginning of the year he has been depressed saying things about never being born and dying. Being a bad kid. Feeling like the teacher is picking on him. We placed him in therapy immediately and it does help. But then every day, he walks into that same enviroment and feels terrible. It is like 1 step forward and 2 steps back, almost every day.

We did the notebook thing and I noticed the exact same thing that you did, she never says anything nice about him. Or if she does, it is followed by a "but he did this wrong".

This is not me jumping all over the school over one instance. This is the straw that broke the camels back after countless meetings with the teacher about my son and how he feels picked on.

Does the principal know these things about your DS? Does he know about the history of your DS and this child? He should. I think I would have a meeting with the principal and let him know it's not about this "one" issue, but the watershed effect. I would have specific examples and dates where you have talked to the teacher about your son feeling picked upon.

I do think you will need to be somewhat careful with your wording about the teacher. I agree with a pp about inflammatory language. The words you choose can make the difference in how you will be received. It may be they are doing this and not realizing it (even though it has been brought to their attention). I don't know. But this sounds like it has had a serious effect on your DS. I would turn to the principal for help in addressing the issue. I do think the issues need to be reviewed prior to some "major" discipline looming over him drops. I hope the principal is receptive.

Has your DS had any behavioral issues prior to this year? If not, that should work in your favor when speaking to the principal.

Good luck. I'm sorry for what your DS (and you and your DH) are going through.

ETA- I would request the teacher separate your DS from the student with the IEP (seating, lines, etc.). Most times teachers do this to thwart potential trouble.

 

[mhsjax]

Surprisingly, you can still hear and see across a lunch room. And why would the para lie?

NOt in our lunch room. Just what kind of lunch room are you talking about. OUrs has about 6 rows across and each table has enough room to seat 2 classes of elementary kids, there is no way humanly possible to hear something across the room.

I can't believe the number of people here that seem to think it is ok that the para apparently lied. If she lied about this, then who is to say what else she lies about. And really I know teachers can't be everywhere, this doesn't give them a free pass. I really just don't get it. Exactly when does anyone think a parent should get involved.

 

[mhsjax]

What makes me the most sad about this whole thread is the amount of people telling me to not stand up for my son because "teacher's talk" and they will take it out on my son. How sad for a parent to have to choose between standing up for their own child, or letting it go because they don't want the consequence that is sure to come.

I have let a lot of stuff go this year, believe me. This one I am choosing to stand up for my child. Right or wrong. If it has a bad affect on how he is treated, I will pull him out of the school. The superintendant lives in my neighborhood as well, and my friend walks with his wife everyday. She has been pushing me to get him involved all year because of the stuff my son has been going through since the beginning of the year. I have not done so hoping to be able to work things out without getting that high up invloved. In fact, this is the first time the principal has been invloved. Maybe she is right.

BTW - my sister, who is the principal of an elemantary school, said that the school handled this all wrong and thinks that I am right for standing up for my son.

I see you are new here. Don't ever ask for parenting advice on the Dis board. It never goes over well.

 

[OceanAnnie]

NOt in our lunch room. Just what kind of lunch room are you talking about. OUrs has about 6 rows across and each table has enough room to seat 2 classes of elementary kids, there is no way humanly possible to hear something across the room.

I can't believe the number of people here that seem to think it is ok that the para apparently lied. If she lied about this, then who is to say what else she lies about. And really I know teachers can't be everywhere, this doesn't give them a free pass. I really just don't get it. Exactly when does anyone think a parent should get involved.

It's not good. It would make me wonder about past events, given this last episode wasn't as it appeared. It also doesn't bode well for the future with the threat of just one more strike before major trouble for her DS.

I see you are new here. Don't ever ask for parenting advice on the Dis board. It never goes over well.

No it doesn't.

 

[luvsJack]

And how do we know she was socializing?

The OP's son SAID she was across the room talking with another adult.

You are making an assumption here. THe principal only told the parent what the boys had said. That does not mean that the principal agrees with the boys.

I think quite a lot of assumptions are being made about the para here. How do we know whre she was and what she overheard?

Then why would the principal tell the OP that both boys said it? If he did not believe it, why not just dismiss it and not repeat it? Any principal with any sense at all would know not to repeat something the children said if it was not thought to be true. Or at the least he would say, "but we think they said that because. . ."

And I said, it didn't matter if she could hear them from where she was or not. She lied about being "right there".


I worked for two years as a teacher's assistant, I worked for 12 years in child care with 8 teachers/caregivers under me, I am going to school now to become a teacher. Guess what? Teachers, assistants and other school personnel sometimes are not exactly where they are supposed to be doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing! It happens! To act as though there could NEVER be a para or a teacher that just might change a story a bit to make herself completely faultless is being very unrealistic. It happens. And sometimes things happen because someone wasn't in the very place they should be and they should just say "I am sorry" when you work with kids all day, when you get around other adults you are going to socialize; its just the nature of the job.

95.5% of the time I will believe a teacher over any child but there is still that 5.5% of the time that the child is telling the truth. If a kid constantly gets blamed for things he hasn't done, he will start to hate school and stop trying to be a good kid. Besides, if a parent isn't on their child's side, who will be?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Teachers are no better/worse human beings than anyone else. I have only had one circumstance in which I have intervened on one of my children's behalf at school, and it was because a teacher's aide lied. I really didn't care what the teacher's thought of me, but I needed my son to know that I trusted him and supported him when he was given a zero on a group assignment because he did not participate in the presentation.

Why didn't he help present? Because the teacher's aide had him taking a make-up test while the group presented.

Fortunately we had the testimony of other students, because the one not being truthful had her heels dug in.

Do what you have to do to ensure that your child knows that you trust them and will fight for them when necessary.

 

[msjprincess]

The OP's son SAID she was across the room talking with another adult.

talking = socializing?

 

[luvsJack]

Teachers are no better/worse human beings than anyone else. I have only had one circumstance in which I have intervened on one of my children's behalf at school, and it was because a teacher's aide lied. I really didn't care what the teacher's thought of me, but I needed my son to know that I trusted him and supported him when he was given a zero on a group assignment because he did not participate in the presentation.

Why didn't he help present? Because the teacher's aide had him taking a make-up test while the group presented.

Fortunately we had the testimony of other students, because the one not being truthful had her heels dug in.

Do what you have to do to ensure that your child knows that you trust them and will fight for them when necessary.

Totally agree.

 

[PixieDustandEeyore]

Dis parenting advice is wonderful.. I'll give you mine take your son and move to a monkey colony and live on Bananas and pina coladas for the rest of your life...it'll be awesome because Pina Colada's = awesome.

In all honesty stick up for your son, it is important for trust and such. My mother always stood by me and I trust her with my life.

You're doing the right thing Kappy...hope things work out!

 

[IDoDis]

I realize you're upset but I think you're probably making a mountain out of a molehill. If my child had come home with this note, I'd have reminded her not to say the word "kill" and let it go.

This is part of the problem with kids not growing up to respect adults. When I was young, if a kid got in trouble at school, they certainly didn't go home and tell their parents, otherwise they'd get in trouble at home, too! Nowadays, the parents march into school to defend little Johnny and give him excuses for why he was justified or try to say he didn't do something when the parent was not even there. This doesn't teach the child to accept responsibility for their actions and only teaches the blame game.

Sorry but you are very wrong. Paras are not hired to hover over children. A good para will stand back and wait to intervene.

That is correct. Children with special needs also need to learn good social skills and can do that best when they are with their non-disabled peers --- not with a hovering assistant breathing down their backs. Kids won't interact with them in the latter scenario.

The principal himself said that she is responsible for standing with him in line, helping with with his tray and getting him to a table to sit. There is a difference between standing back, and standing across the room.

I don't know. This is what the teacher and principl told us.

If the principal told you those things (specific para duties of the student with special needs) he'd be in violation of FERPA (Family Education Rights and Privacy Act) and could be in serious trouble. No disclosure of IEP information including specific para duties tied to a student are to be discussed with anyone who is not on a "need to know" basis. So, I have to ask -- Did he really say this?

See this is the problem. This IS my child. Ever since the beginning of the year he has been depressed saying things about never being born and dying. Being a bad kid. Feeling like the teacher is picking on him. We placed him in therapy immediately and it does help. But then every day, he walks into that same enviroment and feels terrible. It is like 1 step forward and 2 steps back, almost every day.

We did the notebook thing and I noticed the exact same thing that you did, she never says anything nice about him. Or if she does, it is followed by a "but he did this wrong".

This is not me jumping all over the school over one instance. This is the straw that broke the camels back after countless meetings with the teacher about my son and how he feels picked on.

So, your DS is in therapy because he feels like a victim, yet you are adding fuel to the fire by also making him feel like a victim. I can totally see this by reading your posts.

Frankly, his story doesn't sound all that believable (saying "You're killing me.") Kids don't really talk that way these days. Sounds like your DS tried to cover his tracks by saying that. Maybe the EA was not in earshot either. Maybe another child did run up and tell her that your DS was egging on the other student to say "kill." Maybe the EA didn't tell it exactly the way it happened either.

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't think there's a kid around who hasn't ever gotten in trouble for something he/she didn't do. If you truly believe your son, then just let it go and tell your son that sometimes people make mistakes. It's really not something you need to keep bothering the principal with. Like he said, the boys are fine and are friends.

 

[kappy]

This is part of the problem with kids not growing up to show respect adults. When I was young, if a kid got in trouble at school, they certainly didn't go home and tell their parents, otherwise they'd get in trouble at home, too! Nowadays, the parents march into school to defend little Johnny and give him excuses for why he was justified or try to say he didn't do something when the parent was not even there. This doesn't teach the child to accept responsibility for their actions and only teaches the blame game.



That is correct. Children with special needs also need to learn good social skills and can do that best when they are with their non-disabled peers --- not with a hovering assistant breathing down their backs. Kids won't interact with them in the latter scenario.



If the principal told you those things (specific para duties of the student with special needs) he'd be in violation of FERPA (Family Education Rights and Privacy Act) and could be in serious trouble. No disclosure of IEP information including specific para duties tied to a student are to be discussed with anyone who is not on a "need to know" basis. So, I have to ask -- Did he really say this?

So, your DS is in therapy because he feels like a victim, yet you are adding fuel to the fire by also making him feel like a victim. I can totally see this by reading your posts.

Frankly, his story doesn't sound all that believable (saying "You're killing me.") Kids don't really talk that way these days. Sounds like your DS tried to cover his tracks by saying that. Maybe the EA was not in earshot either. Maybe another child did run up and tell her that your DS was egging on the other student to say "kill." Maybe the EA didn't tell it exactly the way it happened either.

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't think there's a kid around who hasn't ever gotten in trouble for something he/she didn't do. If you truly believe your son, then just let it go and tell your son that sometimes people make mistakes. It's really not something you need to keep bothering the principal with. Like he said, the boys are fine and are friends.

Yes he did say it - in an email. So I have written proof that he said it.

And kids say 'your killing me" I hear it fron his friends. So maybe where you live, they don't. But here, they do.

 

[IDoDis]

Yes he did say it - in an email. So I have written proof that he said it.

And kids say 'your killing me" I hear it fron his friends. So maybe where you live, they don't. But here, they do.

Well, if he said it in an email, you can let him know that he is in violation of FERPA with regards to the other child and could be held accountable. You could use that if you REALLY have an ax to grind. I still say just let it go. Some things are not worth getting so worked up over. This was a little incident that would have already been forgotten. You weren't there, so you really don know. You are just as much to blame as the teacher/para because you are calling them liars. You are in essence, doing the same thing that you claim they are doing to your son.

 

[Hannathy]

I still don't get why so many people think it is OK for a paid staff person to lie?
And why is it OK for another child to be hurting another child. In our school system you are not even allowed to touch each other and can be sent home for doing so. Hitting is an automatic suspension.

It boils down to the other child was hurting the OP's child, and the staff person who was to be with said child lied about being there. That should be grounds for termination right there. And I would not want her in any position of authority over my child. I think this is why they are not letting you speak to her. They know she lied.

How is any of this the OP's childs fault?for using the wrong words?

Altho you shouldn't have to if I were you for the sake of your child I would be looking for another school because I would not want mine in such an environment.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I still don't get why so many people think it is OK for a paid staff person to lie?
And why is it OK for another child to be hurting another child. In our school system you are not even allowed to touch each other and can be sent home for doing so. Hitting is an automatic suspension.

It boils down to the other child was hurting the OP's child, and the staff person who was to be with said child lied about being there. That should be grounds for termination right there. And I would not want her in any position of authority over my child. I think this is why they are not letting you speak to her. They know she lied.

How is any of this the OP's childs fault?for using the wrong words?

Altho you shouldn't have to if I were you for the sake of your child I would be looking for another school because I would not want mine in such an environment.

I agree with all that you wrote. I too would not want my child in this sort of environment.

 

[kappy]

I still don't get why so many people think it is OK for a paid staff person to lie?
And why is it OK for another child to be hurting another child. In our school system you are not even allowed to touch each other and can be sent home for doing so. Hitting is an automatic suspension.

It boils down to the other child was hurting the OP's child, and the staff person who was to be with said child lied about being there. That should be grounds for termination right there. And I would not want her in any position of authority over my child. I think this is why they are not letting you speak to her. They know she lied.

How is any of this the OP's childs fault?for using the wrong words?

Altho you shouldn't have to if I were you for the sake of your child I would be looking for another school because I would not want mine in such an environment.

I agree with all that you wrote. I too would not want my child in this sort of environment.

We had already started the process of looking for another school because of things that have gone on prior. This incident kind of makes it more obvious that it might be the best thing to do.

I too, cannot believe how many people see nothing wrong with an aide lying.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Kappy, how much does the principal know?

 

[LovableGluttons]

Let's be honest, there really is no 100% way for someone who was not there to determine what exactly happened.
I'd drop it.
The best life advice you can give your son is to tell him that people make mistakes. Teachers, mom and dad, grandma and grandpa, best friends and girl friends, and your son will all make judgement mistakes. The people who can put themselves above that, are the ones that will thrive.
Life isn't fair.

I agree with you.

OP, if this para cannot come and apologize on her own, misrepresented what happened, do you really want an apology from them? I would doubt the sincerity.

I would definitely write all of this down and keep track.

Hopefully this is an isolated incident and a great lesson for your son about fairness and trusting adults TOO much.

As far as the IEP knowledge, sometimes the kids who have IEPs enjoy rubbing other kids' noses in the mud for not having a special deal. I know my nephew loves to yank my kids' chains by pointing out that his IEP says he doesn't have to do homework.


Nice kid.