Can you refuse to tip!

[bevtoy]

Hopefully this tipping calculator may be of assistance in figuring you total recommended tips.

http://cruisetip.tpkeller.com/

 

[Rogillio]

Let me add, while I do not believe in tipping for the sake of tipping, or believe anyone should expect a tip. But having sailed on two disney cruises, Both times the staff has more than earned a tip. I didn't mind one bit tipping the staff for what they have done.

A job well done and more.

Why not? I think I understand what you mean...people should not expect to be tipped regaurdless of the service they provide, but people that bust their hump and provide the fast, friendly service should expect a tip. I expect to be paid for the job I do and I don't see anything wrong with people expecting a to be tipped.

~Mike

 

[caitlinsdad]

Why not? I think I understand what you mean...people should not expect to be tipped regaurdless of the service they provide, but people that bust their hump and provide the fast, friendly service should expect a tip. I expect to be paid for the job I do and I don't see anything wrong with people expecting a to be tipped.

~Mike

Thats the problem, too many people expecting to be tipped for doing the Job they were hired for, In otherwords that are being payed allready. True the pay rates on the cruise ships are way too low and tipping is expected by the crew in certain positions.

I, like most on this board do not mind tipping for the great service we receive, but thats my right, IMHO Poor service no matter where its given should not be rewarded.

 

[Rogillio]

Thats the problem, too many people expecting to be tipped for doing the Job they were hired for, In otherwords that are being payed allready. True the pay rates on the cruise ships are way too low and tipping is expected by the crew in certain positions.

I, like most on this board do not mind tipping for the great service we receive, but thats my right, IMHO Poor service no matter where its given should not be rewarded.

I agree that poor service should not be rewarded but I think some people (not you and I, other people) use the excuse of 'poor service' to not tip at all. Then there are some people (and I'm ashmed to say I'm related to some) that are just flat ceapskates and will not even tip great service. I can hear them now, "I paid $2000 for this cruise...why should I have to pay $100 just to get my food?!"

So many of the servers get stiffed despite doing the best job they possibly can do. I can't imagine being a server and working my butt off trying to do everything possible to please Mrs Fussypants and then getting stiffed at the end of a 7 day cruise. It just infuriate me! So it falls on others to make up for Mr Cheapskate so these young folks can make a fair wage.


~Mike

 

[chop003]

Quick story on this topic...on a 7 night western two years ago, we had a great server that my three kids adored. Chatting about tip etiquette on the last night (tip envelope night), she mentioned that the week before, she had a table of 12 from Canada that did not leave her a dime. A week after we got off the ship, I told DW that I felt so bad that I handed this server another $100 cash but was afraid to mention it to DW fearing she’d be angry at me for squandering money. DW’s response was she also handed her $100 and didn’t mention it to me for the same reason.

 

[disney1990]

Quick story on this topic...on a 7 night western two years ago, we had a great server that my three kids adored. Chatting about tip etiquette on the last night (tip envelope night), she mentioned that the week before, she had a table of 12 from Canada that did not leave her a dime. A week after we got off the ship, I told DW that I felt so bad that I handed this server another $100 cash but was afraid to mention it to DW fearing she’d be angry at me for squandering money. DW’s response was she also handed her $100 and didn’t mention it to me for the same reason.

Sounds like the 2 of you are a perfect match. What a great story!

 

[Anal Annie]

So then i could walk of the boat without tipping and no one would be the wiser?

Did I read that right? You are absolutely trying to justify NOT tipping for no reason other than you don't WANT to as a pre-planned act!? No, it's not a written RULE if you can sleep at night. Just from a personal standpoint I would hate to be your staff trying to please you. Personally, we usually tip about 10% over the recommended amounts if their service was good. Otherwise they get the recommended amounts at a minimum. Never would I try to justify NOT tipping before I even stepped my big toe on the boat!!

 

[shushh]

May I just present a different view to tipping.

In Australia where tipping is not the norm. Excellent service is rewarded with sincere thank you and big smile and people are happy with that because tipping is not expected. People do their jobs well regardless because that's what they do. They are afterall in hospitality. I'm still scarred by my parents being chased down and abused in the US for tipping only 15%...they wanted 20%. So I, personally, even though I plan to tip, I still get annoyed by tipping. I plan to tip because I know that if I didn't they wouldn't get a decent pay. And I know that they will do a good job.

I understand that we're not in the states, I understand that this is how the cruise industry works, I know about their low pay.

But it's easy for people not to "know" these things. They're not necessarily trying to get away with it just by asking the question.

 

[mmouse37]

Did I read that right? You are absolutely trying to justify NOT tipping for no reason other than you don't WANT to as a pre-planned act!? No, it's not a written RULE if you can sleep at night. Just from a personal standpoint I would hate to be your staff trying to please you. Personally, we usually tip about 10% over the recommended amounts if their service was good. Otherwise they get the recommended amounts at a minimum. Never would I try to justify NOT tipping before I even stepped my big toe on the boat!!

Poster was a troll looking for a reaction. That comment of his was a sure fire trigger to set people off.

MJ

 

[Buckeye Goofy]

There have been several posts regarding the pittance DCL pays their staff, and how they create a false price since you have to add the cost of tips to your cruise, and I’d like to put forth a different perspective. Sorry I’m long winded, but still not much to read compared to all the posts against tipping.

The underlying question seems to be why does DCL (and other cruise lines) work in the nefarious manner of paying measly wages and expecting the customer to pick up the tab. To me, the question is ‘why don’t other industries work this way’? Really, why not, it’s a no brainer. Lower wages, lower tax obligations, advertise lower prices – what’s not to like?

Plain and simple, it’s a matter of loyalties. When you work for a company, while you may have to act upon a customer’s request, your primary loyalty must be to the company and their interest. These interests are often at odds with one another. When you start taking money directly from a client/customer, you must start behaving in their best interest. Most companies don’t appreciate that very much; I’m quite sure that if I took money directly from a client, I would unceremoniously be shown the door.

Most industries do not tolerate a divided loyalty; you work for the company, you act in their best interest, period. In this industry, the interests of both parties are sufficiently close that in most cases, acting in the customer’s best interest is also acting in the company’s best interest. Sure, wait staff can give away drinks and such rather than ringing them up, in order to try to drive up their tip, but most employees are honest, and the risk is greater than the gain. But the staff does know who they really work for, and it isn’t the mouse.

While we hear that this isn’t fair to the employee, has anyone reached out to the employee to see how they feel about it? Almost invariably you will find that the good staff members like it, and the bad ones do not. Oddly enough, this is for the very same reason; they are compensated directly for their efforts. This carries the side effect of being a ‘natural selection’ for the staff, weeding out the undesirables simply because the money isn’t there for them, while allowing the cream of the crop to earn good money.

Part of what is experienced onboard is the magic created by Disney, but a large part is the prospect of cold hard cash at the end of the cruise. Let’s say for a minute that the CMs were paid a ‘reasonable’ wage by DCL and customers were not ‘expected’ to tip. What would it take to get you to give $20 to someone who has been fully compensated? A couple bucks, maybe, but in most cases, it would take something pretty spectacular to warrant $20. On the other hand, if your ‘expected’ tip is $112, adding a measly 17% to that amount isn’t all that difficult.

In the first example, the CM knows they are probably not going to get the extra amount anyhow, and will get a decent wage by performing decently, what is the incentive to go above and beyond? In contrast, being paid directly by tipping, the waiter knows that have a good shot and getting an excessive tip, and will receive less than the expected amount if their performance is judged as ‘decent’. There’s an incentive to bust one’s posterior and sprinkle the pixie dust heavily.

Another interesting thing to note is that in the US, nearly all restaurants add a gratuity to large parties (usually 6 or 8 and larger). Quite often you will find that if you have a good waiter, you won’t find the tip when the check is presented – why is that? They know that if they add 18% to the bill, they are most likely getting 18%. A good wait knows they can beat that, and why take 18% when you can get 20% or better. In general, while it may seem illogical if you’ve never been on the other side of the equation, tipping works for the customer, it works for the employee, and it works for the company.

Have I ever stiffed a waiter? Yes, I have. I was served a meal and realized I didn’t have a fork. No big deal, I asked the waiter for a fork. A few moments later he returned from the kitchen with another table’s drink, when I summoned him for a fork, he apologized for forgetting, and went straight to the kitchen to get one. A good five minutes went by when he again came out of the kitchen with something for another table, he then turned to our table and asked if everything was OK. For a third time I asked for a fork, and two minutes later, I received one.

Yes, I complained to the manager how my server was a bumbling idiot, but felt absolutely justified in not leaving a tip. I paid for exactly the service I received, same as I do when tip 20%; which is most of the time.

I have no vested interest here, I haven’t worked in the hospitality industry for many years now, this is just my humble opinion.

 

[missjudit]

There have been several posts regarding the pittance DCL pays their staff, and how they create a false price since you have to add the cost of tips to your cruise, and I’d like to put forth a different perspective. Sorry I’m long winded, but still not much to read compared to all the posts against tipping.

The underlying question seems to be why does DCL (and other cruise lines) work in the nefarious manner of paying measly wages and expecting the customer to pick up the tab. To me, the question is ‘why don’t other industries work this way’? Really, why not, it’s a no brainer. Lower wages, lower tax obligations, advertise lower prices – what’s not to like?

Plain and simple, it’s a matter of loyalties. When you work for a company, while you may have to act upon a customer’s request, your primary loyalty must be to the company and their interest. These interests are often at odds with one another. When you start taking money directly from a client/customer, you must start behaving in their best interest. Most companies don’t appreciate that very much; I’m quite sure that if I took money directly from a client, I would unceremoniously be shown the door.

Most industries do not tolerate a divided loyalty; you work for the company, you act in their best interest, period. In this industry, the interests of both parties are sufficiently close that in most cases, acting in the customer’s best interest is also acting in the company’s best interest. Sure, wait staff can give away drinks and such rather than ringing them up, in order to try to drive up their tip, but most employees are honest, and the risk is greater than the gain. But the staff does know who they really work for, and it isn’t the mouse.

While we hear that this isn’t fair to the employee, has anyone reached out to the employee to see how they feel about it? Almost invariably you will find that the good staff members like it, and the bad ones do not. Oddly enough, this is for the very same reason; they are compensated directly for their efforts. This carries the side effect of being a ‘natural selection’ for the staff, weeding out the undesirables simply because the money isn’t there for them, while allowing the cream of the crop to earn good money.

Part of what is experienced onboard is the magic created by Disney, but a large part is the prospect of cold hard cash at the end of the cruise. Let’s say for a minute that the CMs were paid a ‘reasonable’ wage by DCL and customers were not ‘expected’ to tip. What would it take to get you to give $20 to someone who has been fully compensated? A couple bucks, maybe, but in most cases, it would take something pretty spectacular to warrant $20. On the other hand, if your ‘expected’ tip is $112, adding a measly 17% to that amount isn’t all that difficult.

In the first example, the CM knows they are probably not going to get the extra amount anyhow, and will get a decent wage by performing decently, what is the incentive to go above and beyond? In contrast, being paid directly by tipping, the waiter knows that have a good shot and getting an excessive tip, and will receive less than the expected amount if their performance is judged as ‘decent’. There’s an incentive to bust one’s posterior and sprinkle the pixie dust heavily.

Another interesting thing to note is that in the US, nearly all restaurants add a gratuity to large parties (usually 6 or 8 and larger). Quite often you will find that if you have a good waiter, you won’t find the tip when the check is presented – why is that? They know that if they add 18% to the bill, they are most likely getting 18%. A good wait knows they can beat that, and why take 18% when you can get 20% or better. In general, while it may seem illogical if you’ve never been on the other side of the equation, tipping works for the customer, it works for the employee, and it works for the company.

Have I ever stiffed a waiter? Yes, I have. I was served a meal and realized I didn’t have a fork. No big deal, I asked the waiter for a fork. A few moments later he returned from the kitchen with another table’s drink, when I summoned him for a fork, he apologized for forgetting, and went straight to the kitchen to get one. A good five minutes went by when he again came out of the kitchen with something for another table, he then turned to our table and asked if everything was OK. For a third time I asked for a fork, and two minutes later, I received one.

Yes, I complained to the manager how my server was a bumbling idiot, but felt absolutely justified in not leaving a tip. I paid for exactly the service I received, same as I do when tip 20%; which is most of the time.

I have no vested interest here, I haven’t worked in the hospitality industry for many years now, this is just my humble opinion.

Your points are compelling and I agree..great logic. Having a son who works in the hospitality industry I could not agree more. Tipping is a win-win situation.

Judi

 

[makaylee]

But once you are off the boat they wont see me again lol.. but they do get $50 per person that they look after.. now how many does each server look after?

It's $50 total a month! Not per person! If they paid them a fair wage it would just raise the cost of the cruise accordingly. Most all cruise lines operate this way. I think it insures that they work harder to make you happy. They do not know they are automatically getting paid, they have to deserve it and believe me they do!

 

[Rogillio]

There have been several posts regarding the pittance DCL pays their staff, and how they create a false price since you have to add the cost of tips to your cruise, and I’d like to put forth a different perspective. Sorry I’m long winded, but still not much to read compared to all the posts against tipping.

The underlying question seems to be why does DCL (and other cruise lines) work in the nefarious manner of paying measly wages and expecting the customer to pick up the tab. To me, the question is ‘why don’t other industries work this way’? Really, why not, it’s a no brainer. Lower wages, lower tax obligations, advertise lower prices – what’s not to like?

Plain and simple, it’s a matter of loyalties. When you work for a company, while you may have to act upon a customer’s request, your primary loyalty must be to the company and their interest. These interests are often at odds with one another. When you start taking money directly from a client/customer, you must start behaving in their best interest. Most companies don’t appreciate that very much; I’m quite sure that if I took money directly from a client, I would unceremoniously be shown the door.

Most industries do not tolerate a divided loyalty; you work for the company, you act in their best interest, period. In this industry, the interests of both parties are sufficiently close that in most cases, acting in the customer’s best interest is also acting in the company’s best interest. Sure, wait staff can give away drinks and such rather than ringing them up, in order to try to drive up their tip, but most employees are honest, and the risk is greater than the gain. But the staff does know who they really work for, and it isn’t the mouse.

While we hear that this isn’t fair to the employee, has anyone reached out to the employee to see how they feel about it? Almost invariably you will find that the good staff members like it, and the bad ones do not. Oddly enough, this is for the very same reason; they are compensated directly for their efforts. This carries the side effect of being a ‘natural selection’ for the staff, weeding out the undesirables simply because the money isn’t there for them, while allowing the cream of the crop to earn good money.

Part of what is experienced onboard is the magic created by Disney, but a large part is the prospect of cold hard cash at the end of the cruise. Let’s say for a minute that the CMs were paid a ‘reasonable’ wage by DCL and customers were not ‘expected’ to tip. What would it take to get you to give $20 to someone who has been fully compensated? A couple bucks, maybe, but in most cases, it would take something pretty spectacular to warrant $20. On the other hand, if your ‘expected’ tip is $112, adding a measly 17% to that amount isn’t all that difficult.

In the first example, the CM knows they are probably not going to get the extra amount anyhow, and will get a decent wage by performing decently, what is the incentive to go above and beyond? In contrast, being paid directly by tipping, the waiter knows that have a good shot and getting an excessive tip, and will receive less than the expected amount if their performance is judged as ‘decent’. There’s an incentive to bust one’s posterior and sprinkle the pixie dust heavily.

Another interesting thing to note is that in the US, nearly all restaurants add a gratuity to large parties (usually 6 or 8 and larger). Quite often you will find that if you have a good waiter, you won’t find the tip when the check is presented – why is that? They know that if they add 18% to the bill, they are most likely getting 18%. A good wait knows they can beat that, and why take 18% when you can get 20% or better. In general, while it may seem illogical if you’ve never been on the other side of the equation, tipping works for the customer, it works for the employee, and it works for the company.

Have I ever stiffed a waiter? Yes, I have. I was served a meal and realized I didn’t have a fork. No big deal, I asked the waiter for a fork. A few moments later he returned from the kitchen with another table’s drink, when I summoned him for a fork, he apologized for forgetting, and went straight to the kitchen to get one. A good five minutes went by when he again came out of the kitchen with something for another table, he then turned to our table and asked if everything was OK. For a third time I asked for a fork, and two minutes later, I received one.

Yes, I complained to the manager how my server was a bumbling idiot, but felt absolutely justified in not leaving a tip. I paid for exactly the service I received, same as I do when tip 20%; which is most of the time.

I have no vested interest here, I haven’t worked in the hospitality industry for many years now, this is just my humble opinion.

Very good post! I agree it's a good system and it works.


~Mike

 

[TnRobin]

I'm still scarred by my parents being chased down and abused in the US for tipping only 15%...they wanted 20%. So I, personally, even though I plan to tip, I still get annoyed by tipping.

I just wanted to let you know that this behavior is not acceptable even in the States. If a wait staff EVER did anything remotely similar to this, I would have summoned the manager, requested my receipt be re-run, and promptly removed any tip.

 

[Disneyholic]

I just wanted to let you know that this behavior is not acceptable even in the States. If a wait staff EVER did anything remotely similar to this, I would have summoned the manager, requested my receipt be re-run, and promptly removed any tip.

It was just in the news about a month ago that a restaurant in Bethlehem, PA tacked a 22% tip on a bill for 2 college students. They refused to pay it and they asked for a manager. The manager wouldn't take it off and when they refused to pay the tip the manager called the police and filed charges against them. It went to court and as should be it was thrown out. It is outragious that establishments think they can hold you hostage for a tip. They were willing to pay for the food, but the service was horrible and definately didn't deserve a tip of any kind from what they said.

 

[DynamicDisneyDuo]

I just wanted to let you know that this behavior is not acceptable even in the States. If a wait staff EVER did anything remotely similar to this, I would have summoned the manager, requested my receipt be re-run, and promptly removed any tip.

And if the manager knew what was good for them, and their restaurant, that waitperson would leave that evening unemployed.

 

[TnRobin]

It was just in the news about a month ago that a restaurant in Bethlehem, PA tacked a 22% tip on a bill for 2 college students. They refused to pay it and they asked for a manager. The manager wouldn't take it off and when they refused to pay the tip the manager called the police and filed charges against them. It went to court and as should be it was thrown out. It is outragious that establishments think they can hold you hostage for a tip. They were willing to pay for the food, but the service was horrible and definately didn't deserve a tip of any kind from what they said.

I have heard that the restuarant now regrets that, thier patronage had sharply decreased as a result of this bad press.

 

[TammyAlphabet]

My children often eat only one meal in the dining room or very few. I made sure to inform the staff that I would pretend that they were there every night when I calculated my tip. I think they depend on this money, it is their livelihood, and unless I have an overwhelming reason, I just tip as suggested. Tipping is a personal thing and everyone certainly has the right to not tip.

 

[TammyAlphabet]

My children often eat only one meal in the dining room or very few. I made sure to inform the staff that I would pretend that they were there every night when I calculated my tip. I think they depend on this money, it is their livelihood, and unless I have an overwhelming reason, I just tip as suggested. Tipping is a personal thing and everyone certainly has the right to not tip.

 

[inkkognito]

Poster was a troll looking for a reaction. That comment of his was a sure fire trigger to set people off.

MJ

Amen. I'll bet the troll is really proud to have set off six pages of discussion.