Calling all Car leasing Experts

[Gumbo4x4]

I don't just wish to operate a car. I guess you didn't read my posts. Getting from point A to B in whatever old beater would make the trip is not satisfying to us. We want to drive new(ish) cars we like with absolutely no concern for maintenance or repair costs. Dollar-for-dollar, we could not finance a new vehicle every 3 years (for what they cost in Canada) for anywhere near as small a payments and we'd take a bath on trading in.

I can't see where being in Canada would make any difference. Yes, your purchase price is higher due to the exchange rate, but your lease payments would be proportionally higher as well.

 

[ronandannette]

I can't see where being in Canada would make any difference. Yes, your purchase price is higher due to the exchange rate, but your lease payments would be proportionally higher as well.

Surrrre, but on a lease you negotiate a "payment", not a purchase price and you basically only need to pay for the depreciation over whatever period of the lease. Even a modest car here (say a Nissan Juke mid-range model like I'm driving now) is over $25,000 to purchase. I'm in a 36 month lease for just over $300/mo. (not sure how they calculated that payment and it doesn't really matter to me). To purchase it with a payment near that low I'd need a 7 year** (or so) loan; halfway through which I'd be paying maintenance and potential repairs as well as being waaay in the ditch on any kind of re-sale. For us, it's a very simple "what can I get for what I want to pay" question and how can I get a new one three years from now. Leasing is the answer for us.

**Dealers here are now offering financing over 8 and even 10 years.

 

[tvguy]

Surrrre, but on a lease you negotiate a "payment", not a purchase price and you basically only need to pay for the depreciation over whatever period of the lease. Even a modest car here (say a Nissan Juke mid-range model like I'm driving now) is over $25,000 to purchase. I'm in a 36 month lease for just over $300/mo. (not sure how they calculated that payment and it doesn't really matter to me). To purchase it with a payment near that low I'd need a 7 year** (or so) loan; halfway through which I'd be paying maintenance and potential repairs as well as being waaay in the ditch on any kind of re-sale. For us, it's a very simple "what can I get for what I want to pay" question and how can I get a new one three years from now. Leasing is the answer for us.

**Dealers here are now offering financing over 8 and even 10 years.

Yeah, buying a $25,000 car with zero down at current interest rates on a 5 year loan would run you about $450 a month. With a Nissan, I can see why you would be concerned about repair costs so soon. Their Automatic transmissions (the CVTs) have been a disaster which is why those now have a 10 year, 120,000 mile warranty on just the transmission. They have been pushing purchase deals at zero interest on the loan to try and jump start sales here in the states.

 

[ronandannette]

Yeah, buying a $25,000 car with zero down at current interest rates on a 5 year loan would run you about $450 a month. With a Nissan, I can see why you would be concerned about repair costs so soon. Their Automatic transmissions (the CVTs) have been a disaster which is why those now have a 10 year, 120,000 mile warranty on just the transmission. They have been pushing purchase deals at zero interest on the loan to try and jump start sales here in the states.

As vehicles go, the Juke was a mistake. I liked the exterior styling (and I do look cute in it, if I do say so myself ) but in every other way I sort of hate it and I'm actually thinking of turning it in early on a new lease from another make (got my eye on a Ford Escape right now).

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I don't just wish to operate a car. I guess you didn't read my posts. Getting from point A to B in whatever old beater would make the trip is not satisfying to us. We want to drive new(ish) cars we like with absolutely no concern for maintenance or repair costs. Dollar-for-dollar, we could not finance a new vehicle every 3 years (for what they cost in Canada) for anywhere near as small a payments and we'd take a bath on trading in.

On the contrary, I read your posts all too well. And what is crystal clear that you don't care about how much you're paying in total, just what you're monthly payments are. You're using to purchase vehicles that you yourself say you otherwise can't afford.
No need to get defensive about it. It's your decision. But don't expect me to tell anyone that it is sound financial decision making. It isn't.

 

[ronandannette]

On the contrary, I read your posts all too well. And what is crystal clear is that you're using leasing to buy vehicles you can't otherwise afford and don't care that you're paying far more than you should by doing so despite all your protests to the contrary.

I guess so, if by that you mean I'm driving the vehicle I want with expenses that are acceptable to me. How much SHOULD I actually pay for that? Your insistence that I'm buying anything is a little baffling and not sure why it seems to mean so much to you. We rented a house for 13 years too, for both personal and business reasons. I don't regret any of it for a minute.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I guess so, if by that you mean I'm driving the vehicle I want with expenses that are acceptable to me. How much SHOULD I actually pay for that? Your insistence that I'm buying anything is a little baffling and not sure why it seems to mean so much to you. We rented a house for 13 years too, for both personal and business reasons. I don't regret any of it for a minute.

I've already said I really don't care. Yet you seem to care greatly that I won't endorse foolish financial decisions that cost people more money when all is said and done.

Anyone that reads what I write can take my advice or pay more money than any other method for a car. Their choice.

 

[ronandannette]

I've already said I really don't care. Yet you seem to care greatly that I won't endorse foolish financial decisions that cost you more money when all is said and done.

Anyone that reads what I write can take my advice or pay more money than any other method for a car. Their choice.

I couldn't care less what you do or don't endorse. You're the one that chose my posts to quote; I assume because I'm the only person on the thread that confesses the grave sin of leasing a car and didn't repent immediately...

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I couldn't care less what you do or don't endorse. You're the one that chose my posts to quote; I assume because I'm the only person on the thread that confesses the grave sin of leasing a car and didn't repent immediately...

That you're triggered, losing your nerve, and lashing out clearly indicates you could indeed care less. Nobody is asking you to repent for anything by the way. You in the post you quoted meant in general, not you personally. There is absolutely no reason for you to be mad. I've already stated I leave the choice to take my advice or not to the reader several times.

 

[tvguy]

As vehicles go, the Juke was a mistake. I liked the exterior styling (and I do look cute in it, if I do say so myself ) but in every other way I sort of hate it and I'm actually thinking of turning it in early on a new lease from another make (got my eye on a Ford Escape right now).

We use Escapes at work. They are sweet vehicles. The Ecoboost engines in the 2016s we have are FAST.

 

[ronandannette]

That you're triggered, losing your nerve, and lashing out clearly indicates you could indeed care less. Nobody is asking you to repent for anything by the way. You in the post you quoted meant in general, not you personally. There is absolutely no reason for you to be mad. I've already stated I leave the choice to take my advice or not to the reader several times.

Confused about the triggered (whatever that even means) and losing my nerve comment. And mad? Actually my DH has asked a couple of times over the last hour what I'm laughing at...

 

[Klayfish]

I'm in a 36 month lease for just over $300/mo. (not sure how they calculated that payment and it doesn't really matter to me). For us, it's a very simple "what can I get for what I want to pay" question and how can I get a new one three years from now. Leasing is the answer for us.

Right, and as stated by others, it's completely your choice to do it this way. But from a financial perspective, this is precisely where they're raking you over the coals...badly. You're not sure how they come up with those numbers and don't really care. That's the exact kind of customer that dealers look for to lease vehicles. They want a customer who walks in and says "I have $xxx.xx to spend per month, what can you give me?" They salivate at that kind of stuff. Some people like to deal with cars that way, I can't tell you how many I've come across like that. But it's just not something I recommend, as it's quite costly.

Sorry you don't like the Juke. If I recall, Nissan is killing it off anyway. If you like small SUVs, look at things like the CR-V, HR-V, Rav-4, CH-R or the products from Hyundai/Kia.

 

[ronandannette]

Right, and as stated by others, it's completely your choice to do it this way. But from a financial perspective, this is precisely where they're raking you over the coals...badly. You're not sure how they come up with those numbers and don't really care. That's the exact kind of customer that dealers look for to lease vehicles. They want a customer who walks in and says "I have $xxx.xx to spend per month, what can you give me?" They salivate at that kind of stuff. Some people like to deal with cars that way, I can't tell you how many I've come across like that. But it's just not something I recommend, as it's quite costly.

Sorry you don't like the Juke. If I recall, Nissan is killing it off anyway. If you like small SUVs, look at things like the CR-V, HR-V, Rav-4, CH-R or the products from Hyundai/Kia.

{{sigh}} My original post to this thread, and my subsequent ones have NOT ONCE implied that leasing is a better "deal" financially than buying - only that there are sound reasons we choose it and we're not hapless rubes who are being taken advantage of.

And I'm genuinely open to being educated on how I can drive the vehicle I want for the payment I want and turn it over every 3 years without being "raked over the coals". I'm not willing to drive an older vehicle - period.

 

[BLAZEY]

I bought my current car a 2002 Acura 1.7 EL. Paid it off in less than 4 years by making extra payments (Honda had no penalty for doing so) Do the routine maintenance and the car is still reliable. In 3 years I will get a new car. I am making a "car payment" to my savings account now and when it comes time to buy I will have a nice down payment for my new car. We did have to replace DH 2003 Dodge Dakota in 2014, bought a 2014 Titan PRO-4X for cheap new (36000) 12000 less than the one sitting right next to it. It may have been a demo model or something, but they ate the deprecation on it and worked out cheaper than a used one on another lot overall. When he has paid that off I might consider getting my new car, or wait until I have a bigger down payment.

One caveat, I live in a place that does not get much, if any snow in the winter. Places that do, my car would probable rusted out even with the extra coating. I have traveled east of the lower mainland to know that you don't see older cars as frequently Alberta and eastward in Canada. My car is 15.5 years old and has no rust on it.

 

[HeatherC]

The thing about leasing that wouldn't work for us is the mileage. Everything is far here and even negotiating more miles probably wouldn't be enough to make it a good choice for us.

 

[Klayfish]

{{sigh}} My original post to this thread, and my subsequent ones have NOT ONCE implied that leasing is a better "deal" financially than buying - only that there are sound reasons we choose it and we're not hapless rubes who are being taken advantage of.

And I'm genuinely open to being educated on how I can drive the vehicle I want for the payment I want and turn it over every 3 years without being "raked over the coals". I'm not willing to drive an older vehicle - period.

I understand what you're saying, no worries. Like I said, the one "plus" to leasing is that it allows you to drive a more expensive car for the same money than if you purchased it. Not saying or implying that you're hapless rubes (love the term by the way), but by it's nature, a lease takes advantage of consumers. And again, there are plenty of people who don't mind spending a little extra so they can have a nicer car. That's a personal decision. Heck, I spend some of my disposable income on things that would make others shake their heads.

The key is what you said..."drive the vehicle I want". That's what leasing may allow you to do. I understand you don't want to drive an older vehicle, but what would you call "older"? Keep in mind that most cars now need nothing more than routine basic maintenance for 100k miles or more. Purchasing instead of leasing may require you to step down one price level. For example, instead of a $24,000 Nissan Juke lease, buy a $17,000 Nissan Versa Note (the Note and Juke are very closely related). Put $2000 down and $300/month on a 5 year loan...just roughly speaking. That's about the same as you'd do with the lease. Drive the car for 4 years. Now you're ready for a new car. Trade the Note in. You may still owe $3000 on the loan, but the car is worth $5000 on trade. So you've got $2000 equity in your pocket. If you sold the car privately instead, maybe you get $6500 for it and now you've got $3500 in your pocket, instead of nothing if you lease. Plus, none of the multiple fees that leases tack on, which can add up to a few grand.

Alternatively, you could go buy a low mileage 2015 Juke instead of a 2018. The Juke hasn't changed much in years, so a '15 is identical to the '18, but will cost 40% less.

Some people like driving brand new cars all the time and switching them every few years. If you don't mind all the strings and financial downsides that come with a lease, then it makes sense. As much time as I spend in a car every week, about 15 hours a week, I want as nice of a car as I can. So I understand the temptation.

 

[penn19]

I like driving a nicer, newer car every few years. I don’t want to worry about maintenance. So for me a lease works out.

 

[ronandannette]

I understand what you're saying, no worries. Like I said, the one "plus" to leasing is that it allows you to drive a more expensive car for the same money than if you purchased it. Not saying or implying that you're hapless rubes (love the term by the way), but by it's nature, a lease takes advantage of consumers. And again, there are plenty of people who don't mind spending a little extra so they can have a nicer car. That's a personal decision. Heck, I spend some of my disposable income on things that would make others shake their heads.

The key is what you said..."drive the vehicle I want". That's what leasing may allow you to do. I understand you don't want to drive an older vehicle, but what would you call "older"? Keep in mind that most cars now need nothing more than routine basic maintenance for 100k miles or more. Purchasing instead of leasing may require you to step down one price level. For example, instead of a $24,000 Nissan Juke lease, buy a $17,000 Nissan Versa Note (the Note and Juke are very closely related). Put $2000 down and $300/month on a 5 year loan...just roughly speaking. That's about the same as you'd do with the lease. Drive the car for 4 years. Now you're ready for a new car. Trade the Note in. You may still owe $3000 on the loan, but the car is worth $5000 on trade. So you've got $2000 equity in your pocket. If you sold the car privately instead, maybe you get $6500 for it and now you've got $3500 in your pocket, instead of nothing if you lease. Plus, none of the multiple fees that leases tack on, which can add up to a few grand.

Alternatively, you could go buy a low mileage 2015 Juke instead of a 2018. The Juke hasn't changed much in years, so a '15 is identical to the '18, but will cost 40% less.

Some people like driving brand new cars all the time and switching them every few years. If you don't mind all the strings and financial downsides that come with a lease, then it makes sense. As much time as I spend in a car every week, about 15 hours a week, I want as nice of a car as I can. So I understand the temptation.

I understand what you're saying and appreciate you taking the time to run the numbers - your scenario makes sense but is not directly applicable. Just for example, to get into the $17,000 range I'd need to be looking at a Micra, which isn't a vehicle that would meet my needs. Interestingly, I just googled a local Nissan dealership's website - a Versa Note (not what I want but I'm going with your suggestion) is over $21,000 and the financing they're promoting is 0% for 84 months with payments around $250/mo. Seems fair for that type of car, but NO WAY would I be above-water on the loan after 36 months - with $12,000 still owing it would be tough to get that on a trade. I wouldn't want to "invest" $2,000 into a downpayment in hopes of maybe recovering it on re-sale. For fun I just checked Black Book on my Juke - a 2015 with about 42,000 km. It's showing just over $12,000 which is slightly less than 50% of the adjusted sticker price when I got it 3 years ago in May. 0 down and 36 payments of $315 later, I've put a total of $11,340 into it. On a 0% loan at the same payments I'd still owe $13,600.

All of this is not to argue with you, like I said - I appreciate the effort you put into breaking the numbers down. And I don't disbelieve that with the right deal and possibly a little bit of compromise on the vehicle and keeping it a longer we could save some money. But not a ton, and not enough to make it worthwhile. And back to the OP's original thread topic, I'll reiterate we've never had any issue whatsoever with turning our vehicles over before the end of the lease term or with fees for wear and tear. Heck, there's even been times when they've waived a minor amount of extra km's (presumably because the re-sale value had held) and twice we got a cheque back for being under-mileage. Again not asserting that the dealer didn't make a pretty-penny on us, but all in all, we're completely satisfied.

 

[Klayfish]

That's right, I forgot you're in Canada. A Versa Note is $21,000?? Oh goodness, my heart goes out to you.

The Micra isn't even sold here in the US.

 

[MillauFr]

I want to lease TVGuy's 1907 Model T that he has been driving for the last 100 years and has 2 billion miles on it. How much do you think I should offer him a month?