BREAKING: Walt Disney World Introduces Date-Based Variable Pricing for Genie+ Service

[Genie+]

Touring plans shows MK sold out all week except tomorrow and HS sold out all week.



I apparently have picked the weekend in Nov that overlaps with "jersey week" which is something I didn't even know about. We're bringing 4 young adults for their first trip in over a decade. We only have 3 park days and I just hope we can get on most of the headliners at this point. We've got G+ for all dates, have MVMCP (sold out), and will purchase the ILLs. And if all that isn't enough to hit the headliners -- well it's hysterical and depressing!

My DH and I have gone twice with G+ and had great success, but I don't think our dates were peak anything....just by dumb luck. I did look at TP predictions when we picked our dates, but they've since ratcheted up the predictions a great deal. Oh well.

Try not to worry about it too much. Looks like you’ve done all you can to give yourselves the best shot at getting the most important stuff done. In the beginning we always planned for low crowd times. Then we had a few trips where we had no choice to avoid busy weeks and I was very surprised. Those busy weeks had some advantages over our usual slow weeks. More park hours, all the food options open and running later, bigger difference in early/late hour touring, more fun stuff like extra parades and shows, etc. The first time I realized this was around Easter where we expected the worst but it turned out one of our best trips ever

 

[set88]

Well, I have a 6 year old daughter. And she begs me to ride Velocicoaster, which she can’t, and I had to drag her on some Disney rides. I’ve been gong to WDW since the 70s. I took my son there a dozen times as he grew up. And I’ve been to theme parks all over the world So, I know a thing or two. Europa comes to mind as a comparison. Way more dark rides, plus big coasters too.

Magic Kingdom is unique for sure. Unique for a park that has gotten so little Increase In capacity as its attendance has increased dramatically. DisneyLAND is what the MK should have been. Huge rides like Indy, SWL, Star Tours, on top of the same mountains, except Tron. But even with that, they are limiting guests too, and raising prices like crazy.

Nothing major was added to the MK for 20 years after Splash Mountain. That was a HUGE gamble to milk and milk and milk. And now the MK, along with the other 3 parks, can’t keep making their guests happy, so they have had to control the number of them. I fully expect 2022 number to show Universal pulling ahead A LOT of the 3 minor parks.

Are there still folks who will wait 30 minutes for Small World, 60 for Peter Pan, pay $200 a night for a tiny motel room, and spend 3 hours and walk a mile or more for a relaxing return to the basic motel pool for an hour in the blazing heat? Sure. But those numbers are dwindling.

I'm not going to argue about park quality, but there is absolutely no way you can say that the number of people attending WDW is dwindling. That's factually untrue.

https://www.thrill-data.com/waits/park/wdw/magic-kingdom/

This is today - showing that this is the 2nd most crowded day for MK in the last 500. And this is October - what are the holidays going to be like?

Hotels have been sold out for the holiday season for months.

I think fall 2022 will be more crowded than fall 2023 (and I could be wrong), but we've got a long, long way to go before we can say that crowds at Disney are dwindling. They're currently spiking (or possibly plateauing into a nightmarish new normal).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Disney HAS to limit capacity. People have finally realized getting one or two good FPs for the day is not worth having a 60 minute wait on a 50 year old ride that was usually near walk-on for decades (Pirates). Guess satisfaction was plummeting, so Disney decided to just let fewer guests in.

Now, you have to pay to get those FPs. With lots of planning, you can get more, maybe. And you can pay more for one more ride a park. But people are also realizing all of the price increases and G+/ILL fees have increased park day prices by 50% or more over just 2 or 3 years ago. And while buying a 7 day park hopper, which I would never do now, but some folks think it is a great way to spend a week, makes your per day entrance much lower, G+/ILL prices are not discounted at all.

IDK not necessarily getting into the has to limit attendance because we don't know how high their limit is just that they are using their own metrics rather than fire marshall/safety metrics.

As far as one or two FPs well they advise you now that 2 to 3 is more in line with what you should expect with Genie+. Are you satisfied with that? Because for everyone before Genie+ they were given 3 FP+ right off the bat per day. And you will only be able to ride a ride twice if it utilizes VQ and ILL which is only Guardians as far as I know.

As far as Pirates I'm just going to say that from on the ground reports from 3 DISers and my own experience FP+ waits were on average less than Genie+ (ETA: by this I mean SB times but actual Genie+ and FP+ wait times would be similar enough because both utilized a high ratio of riders through those lanes). We found the wait times to be pretty high with Pirates ourselves in May. Plus Jungle Cruise has been off its rocker in wait times. On May 11th it was 110mins (as an example because I was sending the info to my DISer friends also down there) and again observationally our local to FL DISers confirmed they've seen it be high consistently throughout the day. It logged higher wait times than 7DMT multiple times throughout our trip. If your answer is they needed to limit attendance to reduce a wait for attractions like Pirates, Genie+ isn't looking like its it.

 

[Gentry2004]

Try not to worry about it too much. Looks like you’ve done all you can to give yourselves the best shot at getting the most important stuff done. In the beginning we always planned for low crowd times. Then we had a few trips where we had no choice to avoid busy weeks and I was very surprised. Those busy weeks had some advantages over our usual slow weeks. More park hours, all the food options open and running later, bigger difference in early/late hour touring, more fun stuff like extra parades and shows, etc. The first time I realized this was around Easter where we expected the worst but it turned out one of our best trips ever

I agree with this. We tried the week before Easter one year because we just couldn't figure out another time to go and it ended up being fine! Obviously not the same as a slow week but not a dealbreaker by any stretch. Once your kids are MS/HS aged your options are more limited and DH prefers not to go in summer. I will say this was before the pandemic though...

 

[Scalemaster34]

Well, I have a 6 year old daughter. And she begs me to ride Velocicoaster, which she can’t, and I had to drag her on some Disney rides. I’ve been gong to WDW since the 70s. I took my son there a dozen times as he grew up. And I’ve been to theme parks all over the world So, I know a thing or two. Europa comes to mind as a comparison. Way more dark rides, plus big coasters too.

Magic Kingdom is unique for sure. Unique for a park that has gotten so little Increase In capacity as its attendance has increased dramatically. DisneyLAND is what the MK should have been. Huge rides like Indy, SWL, Star Tours, on top of the same mountains, except Tron. But even with that, they are limiting guests too, and raising prices like crazy.

Nothing major was added to the MK for 20 years after Splash Mountain. That was a HUGE gamble to milk and milk and milk. And now the MK, along with the other 3 parks, can’t keep making their guests happy, so they have had to control the number of them. I fully expect 2022 number to show Universal pulling ahead A LOT of the 3 minor parks.

Are there still folks who will wait 30 minutes for Small World, 60 for Peter Pan, pay $200 a night for a tiny motel room, and spend 3 hours and walk a mile or more for a relaxing return to the basic motel pool for an hour in the blazing heat? Sure. But those numbers are dwindling.

100% agree that they haven't done as much "building" as they should have. Heck it's been twenty years since the last "gate" was opened.

Disney released a timeline of Epcot's History ahead of the 40th Anniversary.... they really had to reach to fill in the last twenty years. https://wdwnt.com/2022/09/walt-disn...e-of-epcot-history-ahead-of-40th-anniversary/ In the end, we should have gotten a new country every five years, and all the planned pavilions should have been built. I'm not sure why they have been "OK" with these yea0lyr crowd level of numbers that has Epcot at number 6 in US Park Attendance. But in the end attendance isn't the all important number... profit is.

Also not sure why Disneyland & DCA get's so much "investment" when their return is so poor... in comparison to WDW (step child syndrome?).

But you'll need to back up your premise that the numbers are dwindling.... just because Universal is doing good, doesn't translate to Disney is losing money or having hard time getting guest into their resorts or park. Personally I don't see that happening, which is why I doubt this will hurt them. In the end I think they'd rather lose some guest, to allow for a better experience for those willing to pay more.

Don't think IoA will ever beat MK... no room for growth as a single park.

 

[Genie+]

It does sometimes feel like the tide is turning for WDW and right now is riding the wave’s peak before crashing back down. Sounds gloomy. Not that gloomy for WDW though, still far out in front with higher than ever attendance and pricing. If and when attendance starts slipping, they have alot of room to turn down the nobs on pricing with deals and incentives and still remain highly profitable. Pretty sure that’ll happen in the next 2 years.

 

[Ricguz]

We will be arriving on the 6th, staying offsite for a week with family and going various days with some of them and then just me, my wife, and 2 toddlers will go over to BLT for 5 days. I am kind of in the same boat when we are on property but I am stressing about the days with family. It is the first time for pretty much all of them, one couple has a 4 year old so I want to make sure it is as easy as possible (they don't understand how crazy Disney World and planning is) for all of them. Genie+ is the biggest stress, trying to decide the best way to go about it to hit the major rides the kids will want to go on while also thinking about what some of the adults might want to ride.

My best advice would be go early

We will be arriving on the 6th, staying offsite for a week with family and going various days with some of them and then just me, my wife, and 2 toddlers will go over to BLT for 5 days. I am kind of in the same boat when we are on property but I am stressing about the days with family. It is the first time for pretty much all of them, one couple has a 4 year old so I want to make sure it is as easy as possible (they don't understand how crazy Disney World and planning is) for all of them. Genie+ is the biggest stress, trying to decide the best way to go about it to hit the major rides the kids will want to go on while also thinking about what some of the adults might want to ride.

We will be arriving on the 6th, staying offsite for a week with family and going various days with some of them and then just me, my wife, and 2 toddlers will go over to BLT for 5 days. I am kind of in the same boat when we are on property but I am stressing about the days with family. It is the first time for pretty much all of them, one couple has a 4 year old so I want to make sure it is as easy as possible (they don't understand how crazy Disney World and planning is) for all of them. Genie+ is the biggest stress, trying to decide the best way to go about it to hit the major rides the kids will want to go on while also thinking about what some of the adults might want to ride.

My best advice would be use Genie+ at 7 am for MK, plan what you can, head back to BLT hot and pool, use Epcot if you have hoppers for night, taking the monorail. You can also use monorail fro Poly and GF to see Christmas decorations. Nice at GF. Also take them thru Epcot and do a skyliner trip. It’s just like a ride. Also YC/BC have great Christmas decorations also along the boardwalk. Make the best of it!
MK some of rides that don’t have long lines are peoplemover, barnstormer etc. With young children slower rides like Pirates, Jungle Cruse use Genie at 7 am. Epcot like land, living with the sea you may not need genie+, HS however Genie is probably a must. You will have fun, don’t stress. With some a first timer, they will be in awe, just being there.

 

[rastuso]

I'm not going to argue about park quality, but there is absolutely no way you can say that the number of people attending WDW is dwindling. That's factually untrue.

https://www.thrill-data.com/waits/park/wdw/magic-kingdom/

This is today - showing that this is the 2nd most crowded day for MK in the last 500. And this is October - what are the holidays going to be like?

Hotels have been sold out for the holiday season for months.

I think fall 2022 will be more crowded than fall 2023 (and I could be wrong), but we've got a long, long way to go before we can say that crowds at Disney are dwindling. They're currently spiking (or possibly plateauing into a nightmarish new normal).

You are confusing wait times with park attendance, which assumes park capacity, including rides, M&Gs, stores and food lines, are the same. I believe all capacities are lower now. Are waits long everywhere? Yup. Are there more people there? I’m not so sure, and the very existence of park reservations tells me the answer is NO.

 

[set88]

You are confusing wait times with park attendance, which assumes park capacity, including rides, M&Gs, stores and food lines, are the same. I believe all capacities are lower now. Are waits long everywhere? Yup. Are there more people there? I’m not so sure, and the very existence of park reservations tells me the answer is NO.

Wait time data is the only crowd data available. It's not perfect, but it's a strong indication. The hotels being sold out so far in advance is also a very strong indication.

There's no indication whatsoever that Disney attendance is down. It was down comparatively in September (wait times were very low, which is typical for that time of year) but it's skyrocketed this month, and there is every indication that the next two months will be even worse.

 

[rastuso]

Wait time data is the only crowd data available. It's not perfect, but it's a strong indication. The hotels being sold out so far in advance is also a very strong indication.

There's no indication whatsoever that Disney attendance is down. It was down comparatively in September (wait times were very low, which is typical for that time of year) but it's skyrocketed this month, and there is every indication that the next two months will be even worse.

They lowered MNSSHP ticket numbers, so I would be amazed if park reservations aren't lower than old freely open days.

Locals are still largely being kept away. And I think secondary hotels aren't as sold out. I got a good deal offsite after Portofino prices skyrocketed midweek.

 

[TwoMisfits]

They lowered MNSSHP ticket numbers, so I would be amazed if park reservations aren't lower than old freely open days.

Locals are still largely being kept away. And I think secondary hotels aren't as sold out. I got a good deal offsite after Portofino prices skyrocketed midweek.

It's probably related to how many employee shifts they are willing to staff. I remember visiting a chocolate factory in Ohio last summer. They used to run 24-7 (with 4 shifts), but had dropped to 8 hour days/5 days week (9-5 - 1 shift) after Covid hit and even after Ohio had fully reopened. When asked why, they said they couldn't staff the other shifts at what they could afford to pay, so even though they could get more work, they then would be overwhelmed with what they had, so they turned it down b/c they determined they couldn't offer more money to attract more staff (aka, to have another full shift of workers).

I imagine Disney is in that boat with parks. Thus, the park reservations and the reduced allowed party numbers.

 

[Boski]

Lastly, personally not being able to justify the cost because you don't think the value is there is one thing, but that is not the same thing as not being able to go because of your income levels. That's a choice- you don't think it's worth it. You COULD go, you choose not to. Big difference between that and the money just isn't there.

And this for me this is where I think Disney needs to be really careful on what they are doing. Disney vacations aren't cheap, and have never been cheap. But the value, at least in a number of people's eyes, was there. With the rapidly increasing pricing along with all of these changes they are making is Disney as good/worth the price as it was years ago? I know that is a subjective question but if people think the value is diminishing, these people who used to only do Disney are going to realize that you can go on some really really nice vacations for what it costs to go to Disney.

 

[SLThomas318]

They lowered MNSSHP ticket numbers, so I would be amazed if park reservations aren't lower than old freely open days.

Locals are still largely being kept away. And I think secondary hotels aren't as sold out. I got a good deal offsite after Portofino prices skyrocketed midweek.

I agree. A "sold-out" day at Magic Kingdom today is not what it was pre-covid. Now that Disney knows how many people are coming to the park they can staff accordingly... no need to waste money and over staff. And if they don't have enough staff, then simply stop reservations for the day and funnel people to another park. Same with hotels, other then DVC, I'd be shocked if they were all really at "capacity."

 

[rastuso]

I agree. A "sold-out" day at Magic Kingdom today is not what it was pre-covid. Now that Disney knows how many people are coming to the park they can staff accordingly... no need to waste money and over staff. And if they don't have enough staff, then simply stop reservations for the day and funnel people to another park. Same with hotels, other then DVC, I'd be shocked if they were all really at "capacity."

Yeah, I find it hard to believe the parks are having trouble staffing rides and restaurants, but housekeeping is fully staffed. I know Portofino seemed less crowded than on trips last year, despite being “sold out”.

 

[set88]

Yeah, I find it hard to believe the parks are having trouble staffing rides and restaurants, but housekeeping is fully staffed. I know Portofino seemed less crowded than on trips last year, despite being “sold out”.

That doesn't mean Disney attendance is declining.

The fact that parks and hotels and restaurants are hitting capacity - even if it's not the peak theoretical capacity ever - still indicates that Disney attendance is as strong as it can be.

If staffing issues are preventing Disney from running at full capacity, that won't be Disney's choice. I'm sure they don't want to turn anyone away.... which is what they're having to do when the hotels have been sold out for months. If they had more space to offer, it would also be full.

Park reservations are used to manage staffing but they are also used to direct crowds away from the most crowded parks and force people into the less crowded parks. That's why Disney is choosing to cap attendance on MK and HS. If they didn't cap attendance, both MK and HS would have been even more crowded in the last week (MK on non-party days).

 

[set88]

Genie+ is $18 today.

It was $22 yesterday and the parks were extremely crowded - 10/10 for MK and 9/10 for the other 3.

I'm curious to see if they are noticeably less crowded today. Presumably, Disney expects them to be, or they would have kept the price higher.

I'm wondering if we'll eventually be able to use the Genie+ price as an indication of crowd level. Not useful for planning if you can only see the price day of, but maybe it will let you know what to expect the night before (or morning before) you get there for the day.

 

[Scalemaster34]

That doesn't mean Disney attendance is declining.

The fact that parks and hotels and restaurants are hitting capacity - even if it's not the peak theoretical capacity ever - still indicates that Disney attendance is as strong as it can be.

If staffing issues are preventing Disney from running at full capacity, that won't be Disney's choice. I'm sure they don't want to turn anyone away.... which is what they're having to do when the hotels have been sold out for months. If they had more space to offer, it would also be full.

Park reservations are used to manage staffing but they are also used to direct crowds away from the most crowded parks and force people into the less crowded parks. That's why Disney is choosing to cap attendance on MK and HS. If they didn't cap attendance, both MK and HS would have been even more crowded in the last week (MK on non-party days).

Also why the rumors of putting caps on Park Hopping are still swirling around.... my guess is they'll wait and see how Fantasmic does in holding guest at DHS at night. And consider if they need to bring back Star Wars show and Fireworks.

But AK....

 

[xdan0920]

So it's $18 today. That should put to bed the idea that Disney is using pricing on G+ to restrict uptake. They want MAX people buying it, experience be damned.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So it's $18 today. That should put to bed the idea that Disney is using pricing on G+ to restrict uptake. They want MAX people buying it, experience be damned.

You know people can have differing opinions

None of us are fully right I'm confident in that. Maybe you differ on that opinion though

 

[Jrb1979]

So it's $18 today. That should put to bed the idea that Disney is using pricing on G+ to restrict uptake. They want MAX people buying it, experience be damned.

Chapek wants max people buying it. The people that work in the parks day to day know it needs to be restricted. The thing is now guest satisfaction means nothing to them. All guests are just dollar signs.