BREAKING: Walt Disney World Introduces Date-Based Variable Pricing for Genie+ Service

[cakebaker]

Actually, there is a good alternative--limit the number of G+s sold.

Sure, that might not be "fair" but raising the price isn't fair either. I'd rather have the fairness go in the direction of something random than favoring the guests who have more money to spend.

However, knowing the way Disney's been lately, money is ruling every decision. I just wish the posters on this board would quit encouraging them.

Limiting availability of something that is priced where practically anyone who wants it can get it and is overselling to the point of making it less effective is a horrible idea. At least at a higher price, MOST people have a choice whether to get it or not. But to price it cheaper than what people would pay, then limit how many you sell is not only bad pr wise, but bad business.

Raising the price for everyone is fair, as fair as a free market system can be. I dare say, the vast majority of people currently going to WDW who are buying Genie + already, can actually "afford" to pay more. They might have to cut something else out, stay somewhere less expensive or one of a dozen other cuts they could make, but the money is there.

 

[set88]

I was surprised to see the $22 Genie+ price for today but looking at the crowds so far, they're just as bad if not worse than what we were seeing last week. AK and HS at 9/10 and MK and EPCOT at 10/10.

This is the 6th worst day for MK in the last 500 - even the carousel is showing a 35 minute wait right now!!

All parks were less crowded yesterday.

I think it's silly of Disney to adjust the price by $2 here and there, but it's undeniably super crowded today. I'm guessing they must have used park reservations to know this was going to be the case.

EDIT: This is info from thrill-data.com.

 

[cakebaker]

Now 3 of their parks got fewer people than the Universal parks last year.

And yet the park you call stale and out of date, is the #1 most visited park in the world. Your list of additions since park opening is woefully in accurate. I won't list them all, a quick search will show you just how much has been added since the park opened. Keep in mind, WDW had limited capacity limits and are still capped to this day as proven by the MK and HS in particular quite often being sold out. They have also stopped the sale of AP's out of state and limited the type of AP's available to in state guests. They aren't trying to increase the numbers, they're actively trying to cut them. Despite that, the MK isn't surviving, it's thriving. It's packed with people every single day. It's hard to argue that it's practically dead in the water when it is indeed the most popular place to visit worldwide.

 

[snikki]

Limiting availability of something that is priced where practically anyone who wants it can get it and is overselling to the point of making it less effective is a horrible idea. At least at a higher price, MOST people have a choice whether to get it or not. But to price it cheaper than what people would pay, then limit how many you sell is not only bad pr wise, but bad business.

Raising the price for everyone is fair, as fair as a free market system can be. I dare say, the vast majority of people currently going to WDW who are buying Genie + already, can actually "afford" to pay more. They might have to cut something else out, stay somewhere less expensive or one of a dozen other cuts they could make, but the money is there.

I agree. If you are already going to Disney you aren't poor. Even if you scrimped and saved for the cheapest trip you can cut a day out and get G+. You can cut some ADRs, pack food and skip QS, stay value, stay offsite, drive, etc.

We cut out the dessert party and a breakfast ADR to cover the price increase for ILL's and everything else that got a price increase when it was announced on Tuesday. (G+ is already added to our tickets next month) Technically I could've kept the two ADRs but I can't keep dumping money into this vacation. Something had to go.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And yet the park you call stale and out of date, is the #1 most visited park in the world. Your list of additions since park opening is woefully in accurate. I won't list them all, a quick search will show you just how much has been added since the park opened, but regardless, your post is the example I was talking about earlier. The MK isn't surviving, it's thriving. It's packed with people every single day. It's hard to argue that it's practically dead in the water when it is indeed the most popular place to visit worldwide.

If one is to believe the numbers though it's really hard to compare Disney's parks with popularity. MK on Memorial Day was a ghost town in fact I think it had less people if you can believe it than when we were there during Irma. It is not packed every single day. But Disney doesn't always want it packed every single day. They set the numbers each day.

On the other hand it does appear to reflect the growth for Universal has been going strong during this pandemic for a myriad of reasons.

I think the point (which has been mentioned over time when reviewing the 2021 and so on numbers of attendance) is that Universal in attendance was not as close to Disney but now is quite close. I ran the numbers on some other thread and the tremendous amount of growth Universal showed year over year it was hard not to look at that and say clearly people are picking Universal over Disney or it's very possible they are reducing the number of days at Disney and adding that over to Universal. It's also not hard to look at how Disney is doing park reservations and see that they are fine continuing limiting attendance in that fashion. They can still make more profit due to the pricing they have.

 

[Figvention]

I hate to tell you this but you're in a different category if you went to Disney every year. Working class poor is usually defined as working but being under the poverty line.

There's a huge difference between the working class and low income or truly poor. You were college grads and 25 years ago, that meant something and college debt wasn't a thing as it is today. You had potential earning abilities and you clearly, by your own description, had options to save money. You chose not to eat out, buy fewer clothes, less high tech gear. When I talk about lower income, I'm talking about people who don't know if they can pay the bills next month, will there be food on the table or what to do they do if they get sick or their kids get sick. I'm talking about people who don't have the luxury of having income TO budget. I'm not talking about Union workers who have job protections, health benefits and paid vacations with retirement plans or college grads on a budget.

My husband was a lifelong Union member, worked the same Union job for 35 years so we were definitely a part of the working class- but that doesn't mean poor- not even close. My kids are all teachers- college educated not part of the "working class" but earn less than my husband did by far yet still firmly middle income and we found ways to afford Disney and still do. Labels really don't mean much when describing income levels and it really matters what you think those terms mean. Working class simply means working what is usually an industrial or manual job, non college educated. These are not low paying jobs, not poor people. They just aren't college educated- like my husband. Working poor is a different thing entirely.

My parents were working class poor. I didn't know it as a kid, but they struggled to pay the bills, fought to get food on the table every week. Vacations for us were long drives home to visit family once a year. It never occurred to me to even think of a trip to Disney. It was so far out of the realm of possibility, I never even wished for it. That's the poor I'm talking about- the poor who never even have the dream to go, not those who have the luxury to scrimp and save. What bothers me, is people only scream Disney is for the "rich" or they're pricing out families when it's their family that might be priced out- they didn't care much when it was others who could never go, regardless of the prices. If you're choosing whether to buy high tech gear or go to WDW, you are most definitely not poor.

Lastly, personally not being able to justify the cost because you don't think the value is there is one thing, but that is not the same thing as not being able to go because of your income levels. That's a choice- you don't think it's worth it. You COULD go, you choose not to. Big difference between that and the money just isn't there.

The “money just isn’t there” crowd was never in the discussion from a WDW target.

Your job title/income level/educational status don’t define “working class poor”. If you don’t have 90-120 days worth of liquid assets in the bank to cover expenses in case of income loss, economists count you as “living paycheck to paycheck”. That is the strict economic definition of “working class poor”. Millions of Americans just aren’t comfortable calling themselves that. What you are speaking of is people robbing Peter to pay Paul for a fastpass is Poverty, and that was never the target market.

I’ll double down and promise you I could find plenty of money in most “working class poor” family’s budget to afford a 3-5 day WDW trip in 2005. Things like the daily Starbucks, eating out lunch daily, family meals out multiple times a week, stopping for a beer at the bar every Friday. It adds up.

In 2005, most even lower middle class poor families could afford the 2000 road trip cost for a 3 day stay at All Star. That’s a small tax return or cutting Starbucks.

People who could afford 2,500 in 2005 was a HUGE percentage (I might argue all) of the “working class poor”. Disney was originally always costed for the “little guy” and his family.

 

[snikki]

If one is to believe the numbers though it's really hard to compare Disney's parks with popularity. MK on Memorial Day was a ghost town in fact I think it had less people if you can believe it than when we were there during Irma. It is not packed every single day. But Disney doesn't always want it packed every single day. They set the numbers each day.

On the other hand it does appear to reflect the growth for Universal has been going strong during this pandemic for a myriad of reasons.

I think the point (which has been mentioned over time when reviewing the 2021 and so on numbers of attendance) is that Universal in attendance was not as close to Disney but now is quite close. I ran the numbers on some other thread and the tremendous amount of growth Universal showed year over year it was hard not to look at that and say clearly people are picking Universal over Disney or it's very possible they are reducing the number of days at Disney and adding that over to Universal. It's also not hard to look at how Disney is doing park reservations and see that they are fine continuing limiting attendance in that fashion. They can still make more profit due to the pricing they have.

Was everyone at Epcot trying to ride Guardians?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Was everyone at Epcot trying to ride Guardians?

lol I have no idea but there are pictures out there. I so wish my earlier May trip was like that. My earlier May trip was fairly crowded I thought in comparison to the time in May.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The “money just isn’t there” crowd was never in the discussion from a WDW target.

Your job title/income level/educational status don’t define “working class poor”. If you don’t have 90-120 days worth of liquid assets in the bank to cover expenses in case of income loss, economists count you as “living paycheck to paycheck”. That is the strict economic definition of “working class poor”. Millions of Americans just aren’t comfortable calling themselves that. What you are speaking of is people robbing Peter to pay Paul for a fastpass is Poverty, and that was never the target market.

I’ll double down and promise you I could find plenty of money in most “working class poor” family’s budget to afford a 3-5 day WDW trip in 2005. Things like the daily Starbucks, eating out lunch daily, family meals out multiple times a week, stopping for a beer at the bar every Friday. It adds up.

In 2005, most even lower middle class poor families could afford the 2000 road trip cost for a 3 day stay at All Star. That’s a small tax return or cutting Starbucks.

People who could afford 2,500 in 2005 was a HUGE percentage (I might argue all) of the “working class poor”. Disney was originally always costed for the “little guy” and his family.

Like I said working class poor is usually defined as below the poverty line. And according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics that is the case.

"The “working poor” are people who spend 27 weeks or more in a year in the labor force either working or looking for work but whose incomes fall below the poverty level"

I'm sorry you appear to want to attach your own meaning but it doesn't really help in the conversation. Living paycheck to paycheck is also not the best way to discuss the conversation when it comes to funding vacations. The wealthy can be living paycheck to paycheck and yet still go on trips.

You may not have had a huge amount to your name but you were not the same as who you think matches up with your situation. And furthermore it's a tad tone deaf to those who have had some real struggles to discuss your yearly Disney vacations with not being able to find value in the cost these days when 25 years ago you could. The fact that you took trips makes you in a different category which was the point I was making. You can find the value not there and discuss how you felt like it was more feasible in your past to do so but to mix that into a discussion about being a working class poor is two very conflicting conversations.

If you're going to talk about time keep in mind historical things because in 2005 it hadn't even been a year when the country was rebounding from 9/11 (according to figures it wasn't until March 2004 when the airline industry rebounded to just before 9/11 levels). Right after the Great Recession you also had pricing structures that were different.

 

[set88]

But what is the desire for that in 2022? The Magic Kingdom has added very little since it opened, really. And they were all bigger thrill rides with height requirements : Space, Splash, BTMRR, and soon Tron. They only recently added new Fantasyland. Yes, they’ve added little things but very little else that was marketable. The park is VERY stale. It opened nothing for its 50th anniversary.

The MK survives on nostalgia from parents who grew up going to it. Back in the 70s and 80s, it was full of unique dark rides and themed experiences. Those rides are now 50 years old. Does a 5 year old in 2022 really get “wowed” by Peter Pan? Maybe if their parents think it’s so awesome they used to wake up at midnight months before vacation to schedule a ride on it. But on I t’s own, it’s just not what it was a generation or two ago.

Look at Universal Studios, They’ve been open 30 years, and have essentially ONE ride left from opening year, and that is the very Disney-esque ET. But even it is Peter Pan on steroids, at 30 years old.

Universal can charge a lot for folks to skip lines for new and thrilling rides that people willl ride multiple times. I Don’t see Disney being able to charge anywhere near Express levels when they offer mostly very old tech rides in their premier park. Foreign visitors would perhaps do it. Once in a lifetimers in America MAYBE, but if they are once ever visitors, it may very well be because they saved a ton for the trip, so they may not pay either.

And Epcot and AK just don’t offer enough rides to charge much. Studios could perhaps charge a large sum, since they are overcrowded.

Disney World chose to essentially build nothing for 20 years. Now 3 of their parks got fewer people than the Universal parks last year. That is HUGE. Yes, Disney has been finally building new rides in the last 5 years, but it s too late, all their parks are overcrowded, so they have to start charging for access. The $15 price was ridiculously low for any sort of Disney park perk. Well, unless you’re local using a Season Pass.

This doesn't make much sense to me - Disney is packed to the gills right now and has been most of this year. There is a TON of desire for Disney. They've also added plenty of stuff since opening.

I think you're also seriously underestimating how unique the Disney parks are. There are very, very few (I'm almost confident enough to say "none") other parks that offer so many different rides that have no height limits whatsoever.

And what height limits Disney does have are much lower than other parks. All the Mountains plus SDMT are between 38-40 except Space which is 44. Contrast that to the standard limit for roller coasters of 48 for relatively less intense rides and 54 for intense thrill rides/roller coasters. HUGE difference.

Universal has a much heavier focus on thrill rides and higher height limits on a lot of stuff. There's nowhere near as much stuff for people that don't like thrill rides or people with very small children to do. Which is why I said Disney continues to be unique.

I think you're somewhat confusing what you're interested in with what Disney's target audience is interested in.

I'm also quite confident that should they choose to, Disney could charge significantly more than Universal does for an unlimited Express pass and get it. Look at the the VIP tours. That's what I call eye poppingly outrageous prices and they get them.

 

[cakebaker]

I’ll double down and promise you I could find plenty of money in most “working class poor” family’s budget to afford a 3-5 day WDW trip in 2005. Things like the daily Starbucks, eating out lunch daily, family meals out multiple times a week, stopping for a beer at the bar every Friday. It adds up.

I think you might be out of touch with how the "working class poor" live. They don't go to Starbucks. I love Starbucks, but it's a rare treat for me and I have one within walking distance of my house. They don't eat out with the family and I know a great many who don't eat lunch at all or they bring a sandwich from home.

 

[arich35]

The crowds are making me even more worried for our December trip starting on the 7th

 

[lugnut33]

I am continually disgusted by the constant (but accurate) "they need to price more people out of Disney" discussion. What has become of this company? And before you try the misguided response "they're a money making company" - that has always been the case. What has changed is the corporate philosophy which was really what once made Disney stand out from the rest.

Thing is, they're not even that great of a company any longer.

 

[Ricguz]

The crowds are making me even more worried for our December trip starting on the 7th

We are going from the 6th to the 16th of December. We usually go to Disney ever 2 to 5 years. Based upon everything I have read, I am not expecting to have a Disney Magic moment so here is my take: I have Genie +, park hoppers, Christmas party etc… All my park reservations and Dining are complete. I also have a Candlelight Procession dining package. We are doing Disney on my time. If we get Genie+ to work for us, great, if not I am not going to get upset. I will walk around the parks, take in the Christmas vibe, go back to the YC and hit the pool, walk around the boardwalk, look at some of the other resorts, head up to club level, grab a few beers, some cheese and crackers, sit on my balcony and watch the world go by.
Since I have park hoppers, my 2 pm parks are Epcot and HS. I will walk around those at night. I am lucky to be able to afford what Disney throws at me but if this time around it’s like what everyone has been writing about then next time if there is a next time I will do things different. I already cut down on TS, only have two reservations one for the candlelight and Beaches and Cream which is just a fun one. I noticed three years ago the quality of the food was going down hill so when I here what everyone is complaining about from Genie+, crowds, pricing then it’s a waste of my time and money to eat at overpriced, low quality restaurants. So I want to thank everyone for their prospective, I value everyone opinion however I will make this more a resort vacation especially I my own mind that way I am not disappointed when I see for myself how the magic has changed. And yes, I am one of those old nostalgic ones who have this idea about Disney. I know Davie Crocket and Jimmie Cricket are not coming thru the archways of Disney anytime soon. Maybe management should look the Wonderful World of Disney shows and get some perspective!

 

[rastuso]

If one is to believe the numbers though it's really hard to compare Disney's parks with popularity. MK on Memorial Day was a ghost town in fact I think it had less people if you can believe it than when we were there during Irma. It is not packed every single day. But Disney doesn't always want it packed every single day. They set the numbers each day.

On the other hand it does appear to reflect the growth for Universal has been going strong during this pandemic for a myriad of reasons.

I think the point (which has been mentioned over time when reviewing the 2021 and so on numbers of attendance) is that Universal in attendance was not as close to Disney but now is quite close. I ran the numbers on some other thread and the tremendous amount of growth Universal showed year over year it was hard not to look at that and say clearly people are picking Universal over Disney or it's very possible they are reducing the number of days at Disney and adding that over to Universal. It's also not hard to look at how Disney is doing park reservations and see that they are fine continuing limiting attendance in that fashion. They can still make more profit due to the pricing they have.

Disney HAS to limit capacity. People have finally realized getting one or two good FPs for the day is not worth having a 60 minute wait on a 50 year old ride that was usually near walk-on for decades (Pirates). Guess satisfaction was plummeting, so Disney decided to just let fewer guests in.

Now, you have to pay to get those FPs. With lots of planning, you can get more, maybe. And you can pay more for one more ride a park. But people are also realizing all of the price increases and G+/ILL fees have increased park day prices by 50% or more over just 2 or 3 years ago. And while buying a 7 day park hopper, which I would never do now, but some folks think it is a great way to spend a week, makes your per day entrance much lower, G+/ILL prices are not discounted at all.

 

[boogienights]

Are polls allowed on disboards?

If so, maybe somone could create a poll asking about what people are going to do in light of recent price increases and how expensive WDW has become in general.

Possible questions :
a. go and make no changes to spending in light of high prices;
b. go but make changes like staying off site;
c. cancel upcoming trip;
d. postpone upcoming booked trip or delay booking a trip until _____(have saved money, prices decrease, new park/ride opens, etc...fill in blank in comments);
e. done with Disney forever.

I would create a poll myself but have absolutely no idea how to do it.

 

[Genie+]

Or they could just keep raising the price- fewer people buying, but buying at a higher price means the same or more money for Disney and a better guest experience. To put out a product at a price it would seem a lot of people are willing to pay, then tell a great many of them they can't have it is a disaster. It seems much better to me to raise the price and then people are deciding for themselves whether to buy it or not, but they are not blocked by Disney.

And really what they want is people deciding for themselves the cost is not worth it since they can figure out other ways to do the attractions they want. There will always be that group of people, and another group willing to pay to make their life easier. The goal is getting both groups to feel okay about their decision. For sure they want the price at a point where the people who lean toward spending extra won’t be shut out due to lack of availability.

Like dessert parties and after hours tickets, some happily pay for the opportunity and others happily save their money because they don’t feel they’re missing out on much at those price points.

 

[leeniewdw]

I was surprised to see the $22 Genie+ price for today but looking at the crowds so far, they're just as bad if not worse than what we were seeing last week. AK and HS at 9/10 and MK and EPCOT at 10/10.

This is the 6th worst day for MK in the last 500 - even the carousel is showing a 35 minute wait right now!!

All parks were less crowded yesterday.

I think it's silly of Disney to adjust the price by $2 here and there, but it's undeniably super crowded today. I'm guessing they must have used park reservations to know this was going to be the case.

EDIT: This is info from thrill-data.com.

Touring plans shows MK sold out all week except tomorrow and HS sold out all week.

The crowds are making me even more worried for our December trip starting on the 7th

I apparently have picked the weekend in Nov that overlaps with "jersey week" which is something I didn't even know about. We're bringing 4 young adults for their first trip in over a decade. We only have 3 park days and I just hope we can get on most of the headliners at this point. We've got G+ for all dates, have MVMCP (sold out), and will purchase the ILLs. And if all that isn't enough to hit the headliners -- well it's hysterical and depressing!

My DH and I have gone twice with G+ and had great success, but I don't think our dates were peak anything....just by dumb luck. I did look at TP predictions when we picked our dates, but they've since ratcheted up the predictions a great deal. Oh well.

 

[rastuso]

This doesn't make much sense to me - Disney is packed to the gills right now and has been most of this year. There is a TON of desire for Disney. They've also added plenty of stuff since opening.

I think you're also seriously underestimating how unique the Disney parks are. There are very, very few (I'm almost confident enough to say "none") other parks that offer so many different rides that have no height limits whatsoever.

And what height limits Disney does have are much lower than other parks. All the Mountains plus SDMT are between 38-40 except Space which is 44. Contrast that to the standard limit for roller coasters of 48 for relatively less intense rides and 54 for intense thrill rides/roller coasters. HUGE difference.

Universal has a much heavier focus on thrill rides and higher height limits on a lot of stuff. There's nowhere near as much stuff for people that don't like thrill rides or people with very small children to do. Which is why I said Disney continues to be unique.

I think you're somewhat confusing what you're interested in with what Disney's target audience is interested in.

I'm also quite confident that should they choose to, Disney could charge significantly more than Universal does for an unlimited Express pass and get it. Look at the the VIP tours. That's what I call eye poppingly outrageous prices and they get them.

Well, I have a 6 year old daughter. And she begs me to ride Velocicoaster, which she can’t, and I had to drag her on some Disney rides. I’ve been gong to WDW since the 70s. I took my son there a dozen times as he grew up. And I’ve been to theme parks all over the world So, I know a thing or two. Europa comes to mind as a comparison. Way more dark rides, plus big coasters too.

Magic Kingdom is unique for sure. Unique for a park that has gotten so little Increase In capacity as its attendance has increased dramatically. DisneyLAND is what the MK should have been. Huge rides like Indy, SWL, Star Tours, on top of the same mountains, except Tron. But even with that, they are limiting guests too, and raising prices like crazy.

Nothing major was added to the MK for 20 years after Splash Mountain. That was a HUGE gamble to milk and milk and milk. And now the MK, along with the other 3 parks, can’t keep making their guests happy, so they have had to control the number of them. I fully expect 2022 number to show Universal pulling ahead A LOT of the 3 minor parks.

Are there still folks who will wait 30 minutes for Small World, 60 for Peter Pan, pay $200 a night for a tiny motel room, and spend 3 hours and walk a mile or more for a relaxing return to the basic motel pool for an hour in the blazing heat? Sure. But those numbers are dwindling.

 

[arich35]

We are going from the 6th to the 16th of December. We usually go to Disney ever 2 to 5 years. Based upon everything I have read, I am not expecting to have a Disney Magic moment so here is my take: I have Genie +, park hoppers, Christmas party etc… All my park reservations and Dining are complete. I also have a Candlelight Procession dining package. We are doing Disney on my time. If we get Genie+ to work for us, great, if not I am not going to get upset. I will walk around the parks, take in the Christmas vibe, go back to the YC and hit the pool, walk around the boardwalk, look at some of the other resorts, head up to club level, grab a few beers, some cheese and crackers, sit on my balcony and watch the world go by.
Since I have park hoppers, my 2 pm parks are Epcot and HS. I will walk around those at night. I am lucky to be able to afford what Disney throws at me but if this time around it’s like what everyone has been writing about then next time if there is a next time I will do things different. I already cut down on TS, only have two reservations one for the candlelight and Beaches and Cream which is just a fun one. I noticed three years ago the quality of the food was going down hill so when I here what everyone is complaining about from Genie+, crowds, pricing then it’s a waste of my time and money to eat at overpriced, low quality restaurants. So I want to thank everyone for their prospective, I value everyone opinion however I will make this more a resort vacation especially I my own mind that way I am not disappointed when I see for myself how the magic has changed. And yes, I am one of those old nostalgic ones who have this idea about Disney. I know Davie Crocket and Jimmie Cricket are not coming thru the archways of Disney anytime soon. Maybe management should look the Wonderful World of Disney shows and get some perspective!

We will be arriving on the 6th, staying offsite for a week with family and going various days with some of them and then just me, my wife, and 2 toddlers will go over to BLT for 5 days. I am kind of in the same boat when we are on property but I am stressing about the days with family. It is the first time for pretty much all of them, one couple has a 4 year old so I want to make sure it is as easy as possible (they don't understand how crazy Disney World and planning is) for all of them. Genie+ is the biggest stress, trying to decide the best way to go about it to hit the major rides the kids will want to go on while also thinking about what some of the adults might want to ride.