Boycott EMM or...

[Accident]

OK , well maybe boycott was not the right word for my post title . I don't mean to tell anyone how or where to spend their money . The purpose of my OP was to point out that we could be looking at a situation where Disney execs decide that this model , EMM , is a way to give anyone early access to the parks (and that is the way they will sell it ) , not just resort guests getting EMH , which will be phased out not only saving them money but making them more money . Basically a bait and switch , selling exclusivity that gradually becomes more and more crowded and less exclusive . In other words just like EMH .

I understand where your coming from and agree the timing was bad with how prices have gone up and more and more things require a hard ticket. If your viewing it as another way disney is getting money from you, this sucks and you feel excluded if your not able or willing to pay.. I however view it differently....

Both EMM and After Hours I think the intention was different.. People paying for ADRs to get 1 quick ride on mine train and people complain they can't get a reservation at BOG (for example) just so they can get 1 ride on what is popular. I think this attraction breakfast is a great idea and you get many rides on the popular with a breakfast that sounds better than the character buffet to me, I don't get those and their price but nobody is boycotting them. It also opens up adrs for people that actually want to dine at BOG and other popular places in other parks and not trying to get into 7dmt earlier than rope drop.

Now with after hours it's a little more hazy.. We're all complaining about crowds and envy those with pictures of an empty park. For the price of a normal 1 day ticket(after taxes and things, it's $6 more for after hours) they came up with an interesting way to give you no crowd. They tried to do it as non-impacting to the normal day guests as possible (which I think they succeeded in doing) but they also didn't exclude the event guests from seeing fireworks and parades as many will do in a normal day visit.. Again timing was bad, advertising was horrible and it looked like a money grab. I think this was trying to find a way to afford having some no crowd times in the parks for guests that want that. Now that it's several months since the last one, we can see that certain nights the hours haven't gotten longer, they didn't hold back on increasing hours and did it when crowds were still lower (and crowds were much lower than summer in april and may when this was happening this year). I think if it went on longer or was better advertised that this is the "dream visit with no crowd event" that more would have went.. This just came out fast, ended faster and with how you have to plan for fp+ nobody even noticed it was there but on this forum, people arriving just after it ended wanted to attend. It also got hazy as they used it as pixie dust to offer some families tickets which they do for any ticketed event but it was more prominent as it stood out since it was such a limited crowd.

I like that disney is starting to think out of the box and looking for creative ways to give people what they are asking for. Getting more room at bog by removing some guests that just want to ride specific rides with nobody in line but still need to eat.. Getting people that hate the crowds an unprecedented opportunity to experience that (at a cost that lets disney not operate it at a loss).. disney has always been about options and these are just some more options that offer experiences they haven't tried before.. someone has to pay for the operation in order for it to be sustainable (and why boycotting would work)..

My question to the OP, what exactly are you boycotting? Is it the events itself, the price of the events or are you just frustrated that on paper it looks like disney just wants more money from you? If your not into an empty park or breakfast with some exclusive ride access before and after park is official opened just don't go and if enough do that then it will go away. we're not here saying you should stop going to character breakfasts which aren't low cost, don't have great food and you barely interact with the characters.

 

[JimmyV]

Disney is just filling demand (and charging for it, because it is not free to do those things).

Here's a novel idea. Fill the demand by raising ticket prices a bit and expanding the hours to include early mornings and late evenings. They seem to have the first part of this equation down pat. How about working on the second. Disney "created" this demand by moving typical opening hours to 9:00. All of a sudden, the 8:00-9:00 hour became a Holy Grail. If it costs more to open the park early then open the park early and charge people more. This so-called "demand" for early hours will be met, and people won't have to fork over $280 for a family of four. The revenue now being generated, (assuming that 500 is the number of tickets sold per day and the average price is around $64 per person, and they do this twice a week), is $64,000 per week. They can capture that by raising everyone's ticket by a dollar.

 

[jkh36619]

WDW history's shown that as more and more people "do it" (the event), and it becomes more crowded, people not only don't stop doing it, but Disney starts letting more people do it and Disney charges more for it. Look at MNSSHP and VMCP, for example.

And that's a big part of why I don't like the "Extra Money Magic" events. Jimmy's work in another thread shows they're already impacting park hours, and if they become more popular, they're likely to impact park hours (including EMH) even more. Otherwise Disney's leaving money on the table, and as they've shown they're not in a mood to do that.

(Insert obligatory #BlameShanghai hashtag here.)

I dont think you can use VMCP and NSSHP as an example. Those are once a year events that people plan vacations around.

 

[Praying Colonel]

I dont think you can use VMCP and NSSHP as an example. Those are once a year events that people plan vacations around.

If by "once a year" you mean many, many iterations of both for the last 4 months of the year, than you're right, they're once a year.

But look at what's happened as demand has increased--Disney increased the number of dates, the number of tickets per date and the price (while arguably reducing the quality). You don't think the same thing will happen if the Extra Money Magic events get more popular?

 

[Hikergirl]

Being LIVID over something that you can choose to not purchase or being LIVID over something you assume is going to happen is just so overly dramatic. As of now, you aren't being forced to do anything different, you can buy your regular admission and stay at a Disney resort and get your EMHs. If the time comes where things change, sure be LIVID about it, but to be now when it has no impact on you today, seems pointless.

 

[Hikergirl]

Here's a novel idea. Fill the demand by raising ticket prices a bit and expanding the hours to include early mornings and late evenings. They seem to have the first part of this equation down pat. How about working on the second. Disney "created" this demand by moving typical opening hours to 9:00. All of a sudden, the 8:00-9:00 hour became a Holy Grail. If it costs more to open the park early then open the park early and charge people more. This so-called "demand" for early hours will be met, and people won't have to fork over $280 for a family of four. The revenue now being generated, (assuming that 500 is the number of tickets sold per day and the average price is around $64 per person, and they do this twice a week), is $64,000 per week. They can capture that by raising everyone's ticket by a dollar.

The appeal for some is that it isn't offered to everyone. Why would I want to pay more for more hours of waiting in lines with crowds? I don't need to get in early or stay late for that since that is a regular day at WDW.
With the EMM I can pay more, enjoy riding some rides without any lines and eat.

 

[captain america 2003]

I guess I personally don't understand people being upset over this. They saw a loophole in the system and that people were willing to pay for a meal to get a possible jump on XYZ rides earlier than would normally allow. They took advantage of the demand that guests proved was there. Many say Disney is just going to charge/upcharge for more and more, and maybe they will but maybe they won't...and if that ever becomes a specific deal breaker for you, you don't have to keep going.

We all have choices on what we prefer to spend our money on. Some prefer to spend $800 a night to stay at the Grand Floridian because that is of value to them and brings them great enjoyment (and I totally understand why). Some prefer to spend money on special ticket events because that's what brings them joy. If you don't see a need for it for your party, just don't do it, why try to "boycott" it when you weren't going to go in the first place? Like others said if you really want to boycott something, the biggest way to do it is to not go (though I'm of the camp that someone will always still be there to take your place).

If others want to pay for it (like I myself will), let them pay for it and enjoy it. I think getting up in arms every time a new event is announced because "the sky is falling they're going to keep taking away more and more and then charge for it!" is a bit silly. Take things in stride as they come and deal with it as it happens - you (general) may be getting worked up and anxious for no reason. I have severe anxiety and when I began to force myself to live in the moment and not anticipate the uncertain future, I personally shed a lot of stress and generally unhappy emotions. I personally am SUPER excited for EMM and cannot wait to attend because for me, I truly value emptier park time over an extravagant breakfast, and of course there are people who are the inverse and can't imagine paying for this event but would happily drop $$$$$$ on a very nice breakfast - and do you, that is awesome and I'm happy they offer it for you to take advantage of!

Options and choices are what makes the World - and world - go round, and I think it's nice there are so many add-ons and other events offered for people who would find great value in them. Just because I personally would not spend the money on [insert extra add-on/meal/hotel here] doesn't mean I want it taken away because of the associated cost/number of tickets/hours/etc. Until Disney FORCES us to buy something besides a park ticket, I think the sky-is-falling nature of *some* posts is unwarranted. Like I've said before, the only thing at all Disney FORCES you to buy is a park ticket, everything else is optional, even eating their food.

You're right . But , I don't want you to think that this is something that is getting me really upset . It is not keeping me up at night and if it happens will not keep me from going to WDW . I know that everyone does not like or take advantage of EMH . I did not expect everyone to agree with this idea . As a family we don't generally use the morning EMH very frequently when we go . We do however try to use the evening EMH as much as possible .It works for us and I suspect many other families as well . We don't want to lose this benefit to staying on property (remember when they took it away back in 2002 and instead sent a Character Caravan out to the resorts, the backlash was such that Disney reconsidered and restored the EMH perk ) . I just was hoping to point out the possible cause and effect this will have if successful , and try to make the people who do like and use EMH to think twice before purchasing it .

 

[jkh36619]

If by "once a year" you mean many, many iterations of both for the last 4 months of the year, than you're right, they're once a year.

But look at what's happened as demand has increased--Disney increased the number of dates, the number of tickets per date and the price (while arguably reducing the quality). You don't think the same thing will happen if the Extra Money Magic events get more popular?

I should have said seasonal I suppose. But people do plan vacations around it. I do. This is not. its still not a good example in my opinion.

 

[JimmyV]

Why would I want to pay more for more hours of waiting in lines with crowds? I don't need to get in early or stay late for that since that is a regular day at WDW.

Crowds and lines are a function of compacting hours. Expand hours, add more attractions and increase attraction capacity and viola! Crowding dissipates. The wait times at Soarin' and TSMM have changed measurably through expanded capacity plus the addition of a new ride in Epcot. Disney could have made Soarin' a hard ticket only attraction and charged people $69 to ride it. The wait time would have decreased. But they went another (and better) route and got the same result. There are ways to manage crowds. Upselling is just one of them.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Being LIVID over something that you can choose to not purchase or being LIVID over something you assume is going to happen is just so overly dramatic. As of now, you aren't being forced to do anything different, you can buy your regular admission and stay at a Disney resort and get your EMHs. If the time comes where things change, sure be LIVID about it, but to be now when it has no impact on you today, seems pointless.

Is someone "livid"? I read through 5 pages. I didn't think the OP was livid. I thought OP was just concerned about the possible loss or decreased frequency of EMH.

 

[tlmadden73]

Here's a novel idea. Fill the demand by raising ticket prices a bit and expanding the hours to include early mornings and late evenings. They seem to have the first part of this equation down pat. How about working on the second. Disney "created" this demand by moving typical opening hours to 9:00. All of a sudden, the 8:00-9:00 hour became a Holy Grail. If it costs more to open the park early then open the park early and charge people more. This so-called "demand" for early hours will be met, and people won't have to fork over $280 for a family of four. The revenue now being generated, (assuming that 500 is the number of tickets sold per day and the average price is around $64 per person, and they do this twice a week), is $64,000 per week. They can capture that by raising everyone's ticket by a dollar.

*shrug* ..

The world just doesn't work that way. It's more than just dollars and cents. It's how some people value TIME.

The demand isn't just for "early park hours" . .the demand is for the guaranteed exclusivity. The guarantee that it will only be a few hundred people in the park and you get practically unlimited runs on those popular rides. Charging more and opening the park early doesn't meet that demand even if it made sense from a dollar standpoint. EMH sorta meets that demand but you are technically paying for it anyway by paying a lot more by staying onsite.

Concerts/Sporting events charge more for different seats. Why not just average out the ticket price and just let everyone sit wherever they want?
Because some people want that GUARANTEED ability to have a front row seat and are willing to pay for it. Also .. it would probably hurt sales:
1) Some people could no longer afford tickets
2) Others that can afford wouldn't want to go because they can't get guaranteed seats. They don't want to wait in line for hours for the chance to get a front row seat.

 

[revdon64]

In general, people don't think or plan long-term, at least not in a case where they can see some short-term benefit. So while I agree that you're probably right, I don't expect that a boycott would be effective as long as some people see an immediate benefit to themselves.

 

[Accident]

Crowds and lines are a function of compacting hours. Expand hours, add more attractions and increase attraction capacity and viola! Crowding dissipates.

I completely disagree with that.. The reality is everyone planning for disney sees more hours and picks that park to get more time to ride things for their park day.. I don't have any real data but for other things I have had the data for you'd be surprised how many things that sound like they will help actually have the opposite effect on a crowd.. It varies from location to location but disney and people wanting as much time as they can get usually more time means more crowds.

this is why "avoid emh" is a thing.. more time = more crowds.

 

[Regan117]

I think you are missing the overall point. If Disney opened a park at 7:45, but only offered a couple of rides from 7:45-8:30, the crowd would be much, much, much smaller than a RD or an EMH crowd. You are assuming that thousands of people would show up at 7:45 and that by paying $69 per person, you getting a much smaller opening crowd. This isn't necessarily the case. The percentage of people who are going to get up at 6:00 a.m. to make it to a park by 7:30 just to ride a couple of rides is going to be very, very small whether Disney charges for it or not. You can't assume that a limited park opening very early in the morning is going to be a Rope Drop experience.

I'm not missing any point. We are paying for exclusivity, and I don't have a problem with that. If you don't like it, don't do it.

It's no different than staying in a suite at the Grand versus a Comfort Inn off property. We all have different values in what makes a good vacation for us. It's a good value for us and we will pay for it every damn time.

 

[Regan117]

*shrug* ..

The world just doesn't work that way. It's more than just dollars and cents. It's how some people value TIME.

The demand isn't just for "early park hours" . .the demand is for the guaranteed exclusivity. The guarantee that it will only be a few hundred people in the park and you get practically unlimited runs on those popular rides. Charging more and opening the park early doesn't meet that demand even if it made sense from a dollar standpoint. EMH sorta meets that demand but you are technically paying for it anyway by paying a lot more by staying onsite.

Concerts/Sporting events charge more for different seats. Why not just average out the ticket price and just let everyone sit wherever they want?
Because some people want that GUARANTEED ability to have a front row seat and are willing to pay for it. Also .. it would probably hurt sales:
1) Some people could no longer afford tickets
2) Others that can afford wouldn't want to go because they can't get guaranteed seats. They don't want to wait in line for hours for the chance to get a front row seat.

This.

 

[snowybelle]

I won't be boycotting these. I've purchased tickets for both MK and DHS mornings. Extra time in a nearly empty park to ride popular attractions without battling crowds and lines is of very high value to me. Sorry.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Will they ever do evening hours?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I haven't read all the posts yet, but two things come to mind, when reading the first few pages.

1. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a EMM replace EMH down the road.

2. Anyone who thinks they'll continue to offer EMM with a 500 (or whatever the number actually is) person cap is living a pipe dream. I remember how nice it was, when the Christmas party was introduced. The first few years we were able to see all the shows, the parade, the fireworks, partake of the hot chocolate & cookies multiple times during the evening, take time to get our complimentary family photo taken, plus ride some rides, if we chose to. Try doing all of that now.

 

[Hikergirl]

Is someone "livid"? I read through 5 pages. I didn't think the OP was livid. I thought OP was just concerned about the possible loss or decreased frequency of EMH.

Yeah, you know I swore I read that someone was livid but maybe it was a different thread. So, I take back my post but I still think getting upset about something that isn't forced on you, or something that you assume will happen in the future is dramatic and pointless.

 

[eastendlights]

A couple things:
Demand that DISNEY proved was there. Not guests. Guests didn't open up early morning breakfast reservations and run rides before opening. Guests didn't feel like they needed the extra time and elbow room until Disney created this feeling for them.

Every time a new event is announced....they are going to keep charging more and more. Um. Yeah. That's what they are doing. Do I have to buy it? No. But they are creating more and more upsell events. It isn't an imagined thing or the product of an anxiety disorder.

I AM living in the moment. I am discussing an event that is now occurring. It isn't an event that is being proposed. It is a thing they are selling.

And to answer the question why does it personally upset me? If they continue in this direction of creating a frenzied demand for something that is already offered by purchasing the regular park ticket and making upselling solutions...it will personally price my family out. But beyond personal, if it didn't price me out, just on principle, I wouldn't pay a premium above the normal ticket cost for something that should be included (riding rides and reasonable crowds). It is sad to me if that is the direction that Disney as a company is going to continue to go.

It upsets me because it is a degrading of the brand. Disney used to stand for excellency in every way-not nickel and diming its "guests" to death at every turn. Disney used to treat its "guests" as "guests"- not customers to be bilked. They have found a convoluted back door way to make people pay for FP+, something they tout as a fantastic included benefit. This is not a matter of whether or not people can afford it. Trust me, I can afford it. I could afford it for ten times the price and go every day of a long trip. The assumption seems to be by both Disney and some of the general public that people of means will just pay and pay and pay no matter the value gotten in return. They are wrong. As a family in that segment, I can tell you that neither we nor any of the very wealthy people we live our daily lives with appreciate this kind of slick, underhanded business practice. We are used to spending to receive high quality value in return-which would not include a low end breakfast buffet at a counter service restaurant that is consistently rated one of the worst in all of Disney. Most wealthy people are discerning, they are not fools-how do you think they got that way? If that is the market that Disney is looking to capture, they should create truly new experiences that are worth the cost-not upsell things that used to be free.