Boycott EMM or...

[mom2rtk]

Yeah, unfortunately not going to happen since MK historically opens at 7am every morning.

And a VIP tour guide its most definitely out of my price range. I hear is from $100/hr to $300/hr

Probably more than that Christmas week.

 

[JimmyV]

Yes it would be less enjoyable. I have no interest in running into the park at rope drop and standing in lines. Our family of 5 all have APs and we go to WDW 4-5 times per year. We've never done RD once because we find it obnoxious and stressful. Same goes for EMH - we haven't ever had an interest in doing it. And if we WERE the type to do RD we still wouldn't spend only $10 on breakfast. We order room service most days, which is close to the cost of this anyway. It's worth it for us and we like the exclusivity and small numbers. We are doing the MK once twice and the HS one twice on our upcoming trip...and if they add Epcot we will do that too.

I think you are missing the overall point. If Disney opened a park at 7:45, but only offered a couple of rides from 7:45-8:30, the crowd would be much, much, much smaller than a RD or an EMH crowd. You are assuming that thousands of people would show up at 7:45 and that by paying $69 per person, you getting a much smaller opening crowd. This isn't necessarily the case. The percentage of people who are going to get up at 6:00 a.m. to make it to a park by 7:30 just to ride a couple of rides is going to be very, very small whether Disney charges for it or not. You can't assume that a limited park opening very early in the morning is going to be a Rope Drop experience.

 

[Hikergirl]

I think you are missing the overall point. If Disney opened a park at 7:45, but only offered a couple of rides from 7:45-8:30, the crowd would be much, much, much smaller than a RD or an EMH crowd. You are assuming that thousands of people would show up at 7:45 and that by paying $69 per person, you getting a much smaller opening crowd. This isn't necessarily the case. The percentage of people who are going to get up at 6:00 a.m. to make it to a park by 7:30 just to ride a couple of rides is going to be very, very small whether Disney charges for it or not. You can't assume that a limited park opening very early in the morning is going to be a Rope Drop experience.

You are making assumptions as well, nothing you say is a fact. You aren't any more right than the pp may be.

 

[scrapquitler]

as well as the evening extra hours opportunities (if they bring that back as well ) because if we don't , if Disney can get people to pay for extra time in the parks in any kind of significant numbers you will see them phase out EMH for resort guests . They already cut the evening EMH from 3 hours to 2 a couple of years ago . This is them testing the waters so it is important that this test FAILS so we can keep EMH for WDW resort guests . I know nothing is guarenteed and nothing is forever but if this program is a success I fear EMH will in a year or so be nothing but a memory .

I don't think Disney will even know that you are boycotting, because someone else will buy the ticket that you would have potentially bought.

 

[JimmyV]

You are making assumptions as well, nothing you say is a fact. You aren't any more right than the pp may be.

Partially true. As hours are shifted backwards, crowds decline. We know this to be true. And as ride opportunities are decreased, crowds decline. We know this to be true as well. So what we do know as a fact and not as an assumption is that if the park opened really early and only offered a few rides (which is exactly what EMM is), crowds would be smaller than they are at RD when the park opens later and all rides are available. There is no debating that a 7:45 a.m. opening with only a few rides in operation would attract a smaller crowd than a 9:00 opening with the whole park being open. What we don't know is how much smaller. So on that point, you are correct. But it would not be equal to a normal opening which is what Regan117 was describing.

 

[cornflkgrl]

The reason for these paid early morning events has nothing to do with the existence of EMH and everything to do with the high demand for PPO ADRs for early access to popular rides.

Which again, was an artificially created problem. They didn't have to start the rides early. When they started giving people random early access to rides (if I'm understanding what you are referring to here) because they were already in the park early they created a problem and then turned around and pointed the finger at the customer. You don't want to eat at BOG. You want to ride 7DMT. We will make you pay.

Incidentally, we got early morning ADRs last summer because we wanted to eat breakfast. We didn't think we were getting anything other than breakfast and the unexpected and appreciated bonus of not having to trek through thick crowds with our kids. We ate, came out around the time the park was opening and got in line for Winnie the Pooh. Should we have had to pay a premium on top of our park ticket to eat at an early restaurant reservation time that was freely available to book?

Why didn't Disney just not turn the rides on until opening, thus making it fair for all?

But then there wouldn't be this problem of people booking PPO ADRs to "ride early."

And if you are just talking about getting in line early. Easy. Make all breakfast reservations start at park opening.

But again, that wouldn't be a problem that needed a solution that required the customer to pay more.

 

[scrapquitler]

i'm sorry but I've waited a lifetime to be the only one standing in the park...

I will be first in line buying tickets for multiple days anytime they bring the after hours event back... I have no problem with the price and it's a lot cheaper than renting the park myself.

I was at the first After Hours event in April, and I'm one of the (apparently) few people who paid full price. I was so skeptical about it....but I would absolutely do it again if I had the opportunity. I had the most fun ever that night.

But having said that, the morning thing doe not interest me in the least. Mostly because I'm not a morning person, but also because I don't care about the breakfast, and I'm just not excited about the three rides offered. Now if it was every ride in Fantasyland, I might reconsider.

 

[Hikergirl]

Partially true. As hours are shifted backwards, crowds decline. We know this to be true. And as ride opportunities are decreased, crowds decline. We know this to be true as well. So what we do know as a fact and not as an assumption is that if the park opened really early and only offered a few rides (which is exactly what EMM is), crowds would be smaller than they are at RD when the park opens later and all rides are available. There is no debating that a 7:45 a.m. opening with only a few rides in operation would attract a smaller crowd than a 9:00 opening with the whole park being open. What we don't know is how much smaller. So on that point, you are correct. But it would not be equal to a normal opening which is what Regan117 was describing.

That is true, but it could be equal to an EMH opening if it was something that was regularly done.
This whole thread is based on assumptions, so just pointing out that nobody here is missing any point or wrong, or even right for that matter.
The only fact is that right now Disney offers a way for people to enjoy a nearly empty park and people are willing to pay for that. Who knows what the future plan is, all we know is what is being done in the here and now.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Which again, was an artificially created problem. They didn't have to start the rides early. When they started giving people random early access to rides (if I'm understanding what you are referring to here) because they were already in the park early they created a problem and then turned around and pointed the finger at the customer. You don't want to eat at BOG. You want to ride 7DMT. We will make you pay.

Incidentally, we got early morning ADRs last summer because we wanted to eat breakfast. We didn't think we were getting anything other than breakfast and the unexpected and appreciated bonus of not having to trek through thick crowds with our kids. We ate, came out around the time the park was opening and got in line for Winnie the Pooh. Should we have had to pay a premium on top of our park ticket to eat at an early restaurant reservation time that was freely available to book?

Why didn't Disney just not turn the rides on until opening, thus making it fair for all?

But then there wouldn't be this problem of people booking PPO ADRs to "ride early."

And if you are just talking about getting in line early. Easy. Make all breakfast reservations start at park opening.

But again, that wouldn't be a problem that needed a solution that required the customer to pay more.

Or it was their plan all along and this was their way of "trying it out." Now that they see it's a demand they are going to charge.

 

[tlmadden73]

Is Disney making more from EMH being a driver for hotel room occupancy, you betcha.

Are they though? You need a LOT more cast members to open MOST of the park early or later.
And really .. how many people (besides the "go every year" fans on these boards) really make the onsite/offsite decision based on EMH? For me (who was well aware of its existence) it was a great bonus I could take advantage of one of the days but it was nowhere in my decision making process of whether I was going to stay onsite or not.

I feel offering people a 4th FP for staying onsite would be a MUCH more desirable perk and fill up the hotels more. (if the system could handle that capacity, which it may not be able to).

I can easily see Disney eliminating EMH if these EMM are popular (why give away for free what you can get people to pay for). But I think the two can exist together since they offer different things.

The problem with a boycott of special events ... they are limited so much there will always be people to pay for them. It would be like trying to boycott an expensive car.

We've created the problem ourselves by making WDW so popular.
WDW is such a popular place it gets more and more crowded. Thus there is more demand for things that help eliminate the crowds:

FP+ - to skip 3 lines on a busy day without having to run to a ticket machine. What an awesome perk.
EMM - Being able to have the park to "myself" and ride some of the most popular rides MULTIPLE times?
Dessert Parties - Being able to have a seat to yourself (not packed like sardines) to a night show.
Dinner packages - Being able to get reserved seating to a night show with having to wait in line or worry about seating.

Disney is just filling demand (and charging for it, because it is not free to do those things).

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I can see myself doing an evening one depending on the rides. The morning rides don't appeal to me. I like riding them but not at $60 per person.

 

[Lesverts]

Are they though? You need a LOT more cast members to open MOST of the park early or later.
And really .. how many people (besides the "go every year" fans on these boards) really make the onsite/offsite decision based on EMH? For me (who was well aware of its existence) it was a great bonus I could take advantage of one of the days but it was nowhere in my decision making process of whether I was going to stay onsite or not.

I feel offering people a 4th FP for staying onsite would be a MUCH more desirable perk and fill up the hotels more. (if the system could handle that capacity, which it may not be able to).

I can easily see Disney eliminating EMH if these EMM are popular (why give away for free what you can get people to pay for). But I think the two can exist together since they offer different things.

The problem with a boycott of special events ... they are limited so much there will always be people to pay for them. It would be like trying to boycott an expensive car.

We've created the problem ourselves by making WDW so popular.
WDW is such a popular place it gets more and more crowded. Thus there is more demand for things that help eliminate the crowds:

FP+ - to skip 3 lines on a busy day without having to run to a ticket machine. What an awesome perk.
EMM - Being able to have the park to "myself" and ride some of the most popular rides MULTIPLE times?
Dessert Parties - Being able to have a seat to yourself (not packed like sardines) to a night show.
Dinner packages - Being able to get reserved seating to a night show with having to wait in line or worry about seating.

Disney is just filling demand (and charging for it, because it is not free to do those things).

Even if it is a small percent that Disney calculates have EMH as their primary driver for staying on site, it is still making them money. Just in hotel rooms it can be upwards of 350k a week at 1%. Plus merchandise, dining and longer park ticket sales due to keeping them in the ecosystem. Disney isn't going to trade something that makes them hundreds of thousands per week to something that makes them thousands per week. The numbers just aren't there for EMM to be able to drive the dollars that EMH do for hotel occupancy and the spinoffs that creates. Unless you start selling 10k tickets and ruining the whole experience.

 

[Accident]

But having said that, the morning thing doe not interest me in the least. Mostly because I'm not a morning person, but also because I don't care about the breakfast, and I'm just not excited about the three rides offered. Now if it was every ride in Fantasyland, I might reconsider.

I'm the same but if I'm at WDW with anyone that has kids I can see us doing this at least once. for myself, not much interest but it's going to depend like I might do a pandora breakfast when that opens (or any of the new lands)

 

[captain america 2003]

Except there are people who find value in these events for one reason or another. So how about no one shaming anyone else for choosing how THEY want to spend THEIR money? I greatly dislike "free" dining, but others find value in it. But you don't see me trying to picket Disney into dumping that particular discount.

OK , well maybe boycott was not the right word for my post title . I don't mean to tell anyone how or where to spend their money . The purpose of my OP was to point out that we could be looking at a situation where Disney execs decide that this model , EMM , is a way to give anyone early access to the parks (and that is the way they will sell it ) , not just resort guests getting EMH , which will be phased out not only saving them money but making them more money . Basically a bait and switch , selling exclusivity that gradually becomes more and more crowded and less exclusive . In other words just like EMH .

 

[BarbieGal457]

I guess I personally don't understand people being upset over this. They saw a loophole in the system and that people were willing to pay for a meal to get a possible jump on XYZ rides earlier than would normally allow. They took advantage of the demand that guests proved was there. Many say Disney is just going to charge/upcharge for more and more, and maybe they will but maybe they won't...and if that ever becomes a specific deal breaker for you, you don't have to keep going.

We all have choices on what we prefer to spend our money on. Some prefer to spend $800 a night to stay at the Grand Floridian because that is of value to them and brings them great enjoyment (and I totally understand why). Some prefer to spend money on special ticket events because that's what brings them joy. If you don't see a need for it for your party, just don't do it, why try to "boycott" it when you weren't going to go in the first place? Like others said if you really want to boycott something, the biggest way to do it is to not go (though I'm of the camp that someone will always still be there to take your place).

If others want to pay for it (like I myself will), let them pay for it and enjoy it. I think getting up in arms every time a new event is announced because "the sky is falling they're going to keep taking away more and more and then charge for it!" is a bit silly. Take things in stride as they come and deal with it as it happens - you (general) may be getting worked up and anxious for no reason. I have severe anxiety and when I began to force myself to live in the moment and not anticipate the uncertain future, I personally shed a lot of stress and generally unhappy emotions. I personally am SUPER excited for EMM and cannot wait to attend because for me, I truly value emptier park time over an extravagant breakfast, and of course there are people who are the inverse and can't imagine paying for this event but would happily drop $$$$$$ on a very nice breakfast - and do you, that is awesome and I'm happy they offer it for you to take advantage of!

Options and choices are what makes the World - and world - go round, and I think it's nice there are so many add-ons and other events offered for people who would find great value in them. Just because I personally would not spend the money on [insert extra add-on/meal/hotel here] doesn't mean I want it taken away because of the associated cost/number of tickets/hours/etc. Until Disney FORCES us to buy something besides a park ticket, I think the sky-is-falling nature of *some* posts is unwarranted. Like I've said before, the only thing at all Disney FORCES you to buy is a park ticket, everything else is optional, even eating their food.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I am waiting for the charge of wifi...

 

[jkh36619]

OK , well maybe boycott was not the right word for my post title . I don't mean to tell anyone how or where to spend their money . The purpose of my OP was to point out that we could be looking at a situation where Disney execs decide that this model , EMM , is a way to give anyone early access to the parks (and that is the way they will sell it ) , not just resort guests getting EMH , which will be phased out not only saving them money but making them more money . Basically a bait and switch , selling exclusivity that gradually becomes more and more crowded and less exclusive . In other words just like EMH .

Would it not sort itself out in that situation? If more and more people do it, and it becomes crowded, people stop paying for it. Why pay extra to stand in a line when you can do it for normal price. As far as EMH is concerned, there will always be some incentive. They have to have a reason for guests stay on site. Free transportation alone isnt going to cut it.

 

[cornflkgrl]

I guess I personally don't understand people being upset over this. They saw a loophole in the system and that people were willing to pay for a meal to get a possible jump on XYZ rides earlier than would normally allow. They took advantage of the demand that guests proved was there. Many say Disney is just going to charge/upcharge for more and more, and maybe they will but maybe they won't...and if that ever becomes a specific deal breaker for you, you don't have to keep going.

If others want to pay for it (like I myself will), let them pay for it and enjoy it. I think getting up in arms every time a new event is announced because "the sky is falling they're going to keep taking away more and more and then charge for it!" is a bit silly. Take things in stride as they come and deal with it as it happens - you (general) may be getting worked up and anxious for no reason. I have severe anxiety and when I began to force myself to live in the moment and not anticipate the uncertain future, I personally shed a lot of stress and generally unhappy emotions.

A couple things:
Demand that DISNEY proved was there. Not guests. Guests didn't open up early morning breakfast reservations and run rides before opening. Guests didn't feel like they needed the extra time and elbow room until Disney created this feeling for them.

Every time a new event is announced....they are going to keep charging more and more. Um. Yeah. That's what they are doing. Do I have to buy it? No. But they are creating more and more upsell events. It isn't an imagined thing or the product of an anxiety disorder.

I AM living in the moment. I am discussing an event that is now occurring. It isn't an event that is being proposed. It is a thing they are selling.

And to answer the question why does it personally upset me? If they continue in this direction of creating a frenzied demand for something that is already offered by purchasing the regular park ticket and making upselling solutions...it will personally price my family out. But beyond personal, if it didn't price me out, just on principle, I wouldn't pay a premium above the normal ticket cost for something that should be included (riding rides and reasonable crowds). It is sad to me if that is the direction that Disney as a company is going to continue to go.

 

[Praying Colonel]

Would it not sort itself out in that situation? If more and more people do it, and it becomes crowded, people stop paying for it. Why pay extra to stand in a line when you can do it for normal price. As far as EMH is concerned, there will always be some incentive. They have to have a reason for guests stay on site. Free transportation alone isnt going to cut it.

WDW history's shown that as more and more people "do it" (the event), and it becomes more crowded, people not only don't stop doing it, but Disney starts letting more people do it and Disney charges more for it. Look at MNSSHP and VMCP, for example.

And that's a big part of why I don't like the "Extra Money Magic" events. Jimmy's work in another thread shows they're already impacting park hours, and if they become more popular, they're likely to impact park hours (including EMH) even more. Otherwise Disney's leaving money on the table, and as they've shown they're not in a mood to do that.

(Insert obligatory #BlameShanghai hashtag here.)

 

[cornflkgrl]

I think they could charge for sheets of toilet paper and there would be people defending their right to pay for Disney's special premium TP.