Boycott EMM or...

[mshanson3121]

as well as the evening extra hours opportunities (if they bring that back as well ) because if we don't , if Disney can get people to pay for extra time in the parks in any kind of significant numbers you will see them phase out EMH for resort guests . They already cut the evening EMH from 3 hours to 2 a couple of years ago . This is them testing the waters so it is important that this test FAILS so we can keep EMH for WDW resort guests . I know nothing is guarenteed and nothing is forever but if this program is a success I fear EMH will in a year or so be nothing but a memory .

I guess unfortunately for you, we're one of those families who would consider buying EMM. For us, it's worth it for a few different reasons.

 

[mshanson3121]

You're probably right but I'm hoping my post might open some eyes and get people to think twice before buying extra time that you can get free by staying on property . If enough people just say no to this money grab program we just might stop this from happening .

It is far cheaper (in most cases) to buy one EMM than stay on site. The exception would be if you're booking a throw away room and could time it perfectly so that the night you've booked coordinates with morning EMH at the park you want. But even then, it's still not the same, because EMH is far busier than EMM. So it's still not the same experience.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

Here's my two cents. New head of parks has ZERO parks experience. He came from Disney Store where he was known for finding new revenue streams. Lately we've seen a few experiments with creating new revenue streams including EMM and the late night event. If these events make $$, they'll stay. If not, they'll go. Disney is in the business of making money. They will continue to evaluate if EMH makes money, if EMM makes money, etc. etc. If they don't, they're gone.

IMHO, I love the new EMM's. I think of it this way. WDW has figured out a way to offer some exclusivity at a lower price point. Before you only had the VIP tours costing $1000's a day. Then they added the Ultimate Tours, lowering the price point, but increasing the tour capacity and creating a more rigid schedule. Now, for just a little more than a character meal, they have created exclusivity at a much lower cost. Especially for guests with shorter stays (in the 1 - 4 day range), adding one of these events could cost just slightly more (in some cases less!) than adding another day onto their ticket. And for families with younger children, it means they can get a lot more park touring done before they head back to their resort for a nap. No more running to 7DMT or TSMM. Especially with DHS, it's an uber-character meal! And for us, if they add an EP EMM, it means we would be able to get this entire park done in one day by EMM'ing one Tier 1, RD another and getting a FP+ for the third. That is worth the extra $$ for us! I would so much rather do EMM than join the herds at EMH!

 

[Accident]

1. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a EMM replace EMH down the road.

I would be very surprised. EMH is a selling point on why you should pay more for resorts and it would impact resort attendance if they removed it. I didn't do the math but I think EMH actually makes them more money than EMM for 1 breakfast does.

I thought OP was just concerned about the possible loss or decreased frequency of EMH.

they appear to be doing them in off days that have the opposite EMH (EMM when EMH is at night, afterhours when EMH was mornings). I think they have been very good at keeping these out of the way of emh. I don't see it impacting it in the future. If it does my feelings about these events would instantly change and I'll lead the chanting with a megaphone for everyone. I just don't see this being the case right now.

 

[captain america 2003]

It is far cheaper (in most cases) to buy one EMM than stay on site. The exception would be if you're booking a throw away room and could time it perfectly so that the night you've booked coordinates with morning EMH at the park you want.

Not for us . When you factor in a car rental , gas , parking fees , and the cost of the event for each person staying on property , with free EMH is cheaper .

 

[jkh36619]

I'll add another thought to this. I see topics where people are saying how less crowded the parks are this summer. Some feel its economy, some feel its crowds are more evenly distributed throughout the year. I know the economy is tough but I subscribe to the latter as well. Special events, schools getting more weeks off during the school year to take vacations. We have weeks off for spring break, fall break, entire week for thanks giving, and 2 weeks for Christmas. Also familys are just keeping their kids out of school for a week to go to Disney during a less crowded time of year.

So having said all of that. Could a result of this be Disney is not only trying to spread crowds out during the year, are they trying to spread crowds out throughout the day? Are people who go to EMH more inclined to be done by noon and make a few extra bucks. If so, isnt that also better for the person who just goes for the day, or afternoon.

I wonder.

 

[Hikergirl]

I keep seeing that this used to free, but if you are referring to EMH they are still "free" to onsite guests. Now off-site guests can enjoy empty parks, and those onsite can too in a different way.
If you are referring to free breakfast, well I'm not sure that was ever free. Maybe you could site an example of when people got their CS breakfasts free with their park admissions.
Claiming things that are false doesn't really help people see your POV. It just makes you sound kind of bitter towards not only DIsney but the very people willing to pay for these events.

This is an up sell, and to some its totally worth it. I don't care what WDW used to be, or what it may be 30 years from now. I care what it is now, and now my very middle class self would totally buy this. I'm not wealthy like you eastendlights so maybe I'm the market they are trying to capture with their slick underhanded business practices.

 

[Accident]

It upsets me because it is a degrading of the brand. Disney used to stand for excellency in every way-not nickel and diming its "guests" to death at every turn. .

Seriously? walt used to sell you ticket books that had no possible way to ride everything and not worth it to most to buy 2 books of tickets.. When has disney not been trying to get money from you at every turn... He sold pepsi on opening day instead of getting more plumbers to have water fountains ready... I think the past is very different than your stating it.. this has always been a for profit, more costly than everyone else, family safe business venture.... Almost every ride ends with a gift shop to get more money from you..

now at times of need, disasters, terminally ill children, giving back to the community they operate in they are very much open armed for the right reasons.. for paying guests, it's always been nickle and diming....

 

[cornflkgrl]

With the current cost of staying on property and the availability of nicer less expensive places off property, if they did away with evening EMH altogether we'd definitely stay off property. As it is, we are taking a couple days at Universal this time to see what we think. We might just start going there instead. It's not like we go to Orlando often anyway.

As far as "used to be free" It might be the perceived loss.of MK hours going on. I know last year we were there the same exact week we will be there this year and we had 4 days of midnight closings (just regular closing hours). and this year posted hours for our week are 10 p.m. closings with one listed evening EMH that runs until midnight. Whether that has anything at all to do with all these upsell things, who knows.

 

[mshanson3121]

Will they ever do evening hours?

They did an evening hours event, however it didn't go over well.

 

[Accident]

As far as "used to be free" It might be the perceived loss.of MK hours going on. I know last year we were there the same exact week we will be there this year and we had 4 days of midnight closings (just regular closing hours). and this year posted hours for our week are 10 p.m. closings with one listed evening EMH that runs until midnight. Whether that has anything at all to do with all these upsell things, who knows.

spring had very low hours also.. it only got to 10 and 11pm when afterhours started.,. the week ebfore I think it was 9 and a couple weeks before that it was still 8pm closings and very little emh which only went to 10 or 11 at the max..

I do get your point, coming off frozen highest attendance ever for 2-3 years this seems like hours are lost but I remember someone posted an analysis and someone went back a couple more years and it's in line with hours of 5 years ago and less people coming..

 

[JimmyV]

this is why "avoid emh" is a thing..

It is only a "thing" later in the day after morning EMH are over. During the time that morning EMHs are ongoing, it is brilliant. You can walk on to almost every attraction and have very limited waits at even the most popular. No one has ever posted here that the crowds from 8:00-9:00 were unmanageable.

If you don't like it, don't do it.

But that's the whole thing. People don't get a choice. People who want exclusive access to the park at 7:45 have it. That's fine. Go for it. But what would be so wrong with granting people non-exclusive access on other days? Right now it isn't "take your pick". It is either "buy exclusive access or don't." A better option would be to have exclusive access several times a week and non-exclusive access several times a week. If a system like that were in place, there would be absolutely no reason for anyone to argue about this. You make your selection and move on. But right now, for the week we're currently in, (week of 7/10), there are no days when people can enjoy non-exclusive access to the MK at 8:00. It is either pay extra, or enter at 9:00. Those aren't "even up" choices.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I would be very surprised. EMH is a selling point on why you should pay more for resorts and it would impact resort attendance if they removed it. I didn't do the math but I think EMH actually makes them more money than EMM for 1 breakfast does.



they appear to be doing them in off days that have the opposite EMH (EMM when EMH is at night, afterhours when EMH was mornings). I think they have been very good at keeping these out of the way of emh. I don't see it impacting it in the future. If it does my feelings about these events would instantly change and I'll lead the chanting with a megaphone for everyone. I just don't see this being the case right now.

We stay onsite, so we don't have to worry about driving anywhere. EMH doesn't factor into our decision at all. We've never been to morning EMH & evening EMH has already been reduced from what it once was. We also know several other people who stay onsite & EMH has nothing to do with that choice. Do some people stay onsite for EMH? Absolutely. IME, people would still stay onsite for the transportation options, DDP & the ability to get a jump on ADRs & FPs. Actually, being engrossed in the Disney bubble seems to be the biggest factor that leads people to choose staying onsite. That's evident in many people's refusal to stay at Swan/Dolphin, which are very nice resort's, in a fantastic location, for the price of a Disney moderate or less & do include EMH.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

It doesn't bother me or impact my park experience in any way. If people want to pay it, fine; there's not enough offered to make me interested. I might consider an Epcot EMM depending on what attractions are open. It would have to be a tier 1 for me. Then I could fp the other. We single rider everything that's available so they don't count.

 

[loves to dive]

I have no problem with any of the extra events you pay for it happens everywhere. We went to Cirque du Soleil here in Atlanta for years. For general admission you got seats, for a little more you got better seats, for a whole lot more you got VIP tickets which got you into a pre-performance cocktail party, the best seats in the house, bathrooms without lines and a bar and snacks available throughout the performance. No different than what Disney is doing. Some years we paid for VIP, some not, all good experiences. As far as to whether it will cut down on the EMH offered to hotel guests, I don't think it will but if it does I don't mind that either. It's not a draw as to why I stay on site, we started doing it before they offered it, when basically the only benefit you got from staying on site was you were on site so you were guaranteed to get in the parks if they closed to day guests because they were full.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

Last trip we did 3 evening EMHs and every attraction was either 10 minutes or less or walk on with a couple of exceptions. Even 7D was less than 25 minutes. Epcot was a ghost town and at DHS we rode Star Tours 3 or 4 times in a row.

 

[mshanson3121]

Not for us . When you factor in a car rental , gas , parking fees , and the cost of the event for each person staying on property , with free EMH is cheaper .

I'm guessing you're not looking at the right places, and you're also not looking at the vast amount of money saved on dining. Because when you do, factoring in car rental, gas (which is minimal), parking fees, and the cost of the event (for one morning) for four people, yeah, it's still far cheaper, most of the time. I say most because of course that will vary somewhat by when you go - if you're going during a free dining promo etc... then it may not be much different.

But regardless, you're still trying to compare apples to oranges. EMH is NOT the same as EMM. Not even close. EMM offers exceptionally reduced crowds which leads to far better touring than EMH can, and a meal.

 

[eastendlights]

Seriously? walt used to sell you ticket books that had no possible way to ride everything and not worth it to most to buy 2 books of tickets.. When has disney not been trying to get money from you at every turn... He sold pepsi on opening day instead of getting more plumbers to have water fountains ready... I think the past is very different than your stating it.. this has always been a for profit, more costly than everyone else, family safe business venture.... Almost every ride ends with a gift shop to get more money from you..

now at times of need, disasters, terminally ill children, giving back to the community they operate in they are very much open armed for the right reasons.. for paying guests, it's always been nickle and diming....

I don't agree. The parks, including the bathrooms, used to be the cleanest, most well maintained spaces in the world. On a 10 day trip, we never, not once, saw a scrap of trash, a spot of rust, or a light bulb out, much less a filthy bathroom. My husband would joke that the only public place on the planet that I would sit on a toilet seat would be at DLR or WDW. The quality of the food has eroded and the portions are smaller. The attitudes of the CMs are no where near what they used to be and I can't say I blame them given their circumstances-undertraining, reduction of hours, cutbacks, etc. There used to be fresh flowers and gifts in our resort rooms-not for years. The CL lounges at every resort have experienced cutbacks.

I don't consider gift shops nickel and diming. Selling things that have a value is different than repackaging an hour and throwing in a breakfast for $69 a person. All they are doing with this "exclusivity" is charging for FP. Before this, people were scoffing at paying a full day admission for a park that is half shuttered and now Disney is offering it up for even more money? It is almost comical. A half day park for triple the money-really genius.

I keep seeing that this used to free, but if you are referring to EMH they are still "free" to onsite guests. Now off-site guests can enjoy empty parks, and those onsite can too in a different way.
If you are referring to free breakfast, well I'm not sure that was ever free. Maybe you could site an example of when people got their CS breakfasts free with their park admissions.
Claiming things that are false doesn't really help people see your POV. It just makes you sound kind of bitter towards not only DIsney but the very people willing to pay for these events.

This is an up sell, and to some its totally worth it. I don't care what WDW used to be, or what it may be 30 years from now. I care what it is now, and now my very middle class self would totally buy this. I'm not wealthy like you eastendlights so maybe I'm the market they are trying to capture with their slick underhanded business practices.

As PP have said, this was an artificial need created by Disney who then turned around and started selling a solution. I find that underhanded and slick, no matter how bitter that might make me sound. And it is being speculated EVERYWEHERE that Disney's aim is the wealthy-it is not my imagination.

I AM concerned with the future of WDW. I think if they continue along this path, everyone will lose out in the end.

 

[mshanson3121]

But that's the whole thing. People don't get a choice. People who want exclusive access to the park at 7:45 have it. That's fine. Go for it. But what would be so wrong with granting people non-exclusive access on other days? Right now it isn't "take your pick". It is either "buy exclusive access or don't." A better option would be to have exclusive access several times a week and non-exclusive access several times a week. If a system like that were in place, there would be absolutely no reason for anyone to argue about this. You make your selection and move on. But right now, for the week we're currently in, (week of 7/10), there are no days when people can enjoy non-exclusive access to the MK at 8:00. It is either pay extra, or enter at 9:00. Those aren't "even up" choices.

No offense but this argument doesn't even really make any sense. We already have exactly what you're talking about: days of exclusivity that you can pay for, and days of non-exclusivity where everyone can enter the park at the same time for "free" at 9:00 - that hour between 9 and 10 is still great touring time, for everyone. Your argument I'm assuming is that the park should just open at 8:00 the others days of the week for everyone. But that would mean doing away with EMH completely, which is still a draw for resort guests.

 

[captain america 2003]

I'm guessing you're not looking at the right places, and you're also not looking at the vast amount of money saved on dining. Because when you do, factoring in car rental, gas (which is minimal), parking fees, and the cost of the event (for one morning) for four people, yeah, it's still far cheaper, most of the time. I say most because of course that will vary somewhat by when you go - if you're going during a free dining promo etc... then it may not be much different.

But regardless, you're still trying to compare apples to oranges. EMH is NOT the same as EMM. Not even close. EMM offers exceptionally reduced crowds which leads to far better touring than EMH can, and a meal.

I see your point and respect your opinion . I don't agree however , not for our family at least . We do go during free dining promos and use that benefit to its max potential . In addition for no extra cost we get 3 or 4 EMH days/nights per trip (usually about a week ) for all 4 of us . I know that as of now EMM seems like a good deal to a lot of people , and right now it probably is . Looking down the road however I believe this will change and more and more tickets will be available thus inevitably turning it into a paid EMH experience and thus not the same as it was originally sold as . Who knows , maybe in a few years , when they have phased out EMH and replaced it with a permanent paid EMM this will replace free dining as a sale/ pkg. promotion . I can see that as a very real possibility .