Boycott EMM or...

[tlmadden73]

I haven't read all the posts yet, but two things come to mind, when reading the first few pages.

1. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a EMM replace EMH down the road.

2. Anyone who thinks they'll continue to offer EMM with a 500 (or whatever the number actually is) person cap is living a pipe dream. I remember how nice it was, when the Christmas party was introduced. The first few years we were able to see all the shows, the parade, the fireworks, partake of the hot chocolate & cookies multiple times during the evening, take time to get our complimentary family photo taken, plus ride some rides, if we chose to. Try doing all of that now.

Unlike the Christmas Parties, these morning events (if they continue to offer breakfast) are limited by the number of people the restaurant can serve at any given time and the queue lengths (since that is the part of the "magic" you are paying for .. NO lines).

You will have some very unhappy guests if you pay for this exclusive event and cannot simply WALK ON the rides.
They can't sell a LOT more tickets as they are limited by the capacity and turnover rate of the restaurants. You don't want unhappy guests that have to wait for breakfast that they paid an arm and a leg for.

While I don't doubt they will increase the limit if it is in high demand, I think they will do other things first rather than ruin the "exclusive" feel of the event.
1) increase the mornings it is offered
2) create a 2nd instance of it at a given park. (Like offer a "Tomorrowland" version of this where you get SM, Buzz and the Speedway with breakfast at Cosmic Rays).
3) Package it with the existing places that serve PPO breakfast for slightly more. (Get breakfast reservation at BOG and get access to the three rides).

 

[Planogirl]

It makes things interesting for offsite visitors. If this picks up steam avoiding the EMH parks might not be as valuable as before since the other days might offer these exclusive upsells. It really depends on how exclusive these things stay and based on Disney's history that might become less and less so over time.

 

[Hikergirl]

I don't agree. The parks, including the bathrooms, used to be the cleanest, most well maintained spaces in the world. On a 10 day trip, we never, not once, saw a scrap of trash, a spot of rust, or a light bulb out, much less a filthy bathroom. My husband would joke that the only public place on the planet that I would sit on a toilet seat would be at DLR or WDW. The quality of the food has eroded and the portions are smaller. The attitudes of the CMs are no where near what they used to be and I can't say I blame them given their circumstances-undertraining, reduction of hours, cutbacks, etc. There used to be fresh flowers and gifts in our resort rooms-not for years. The CL lounges at every resort have experienced cutbacks.

I don't consider gift shops nickel and diming. Selling things that have a value is different than repackaging an hour and throwing in a breakfast for $69 a person. All they are doing with this "exclusivity" is charging for FP. Before this, people were scoffing at paying a full day admission for a park that is half shuttered and now Disney is offering it up for even more money? It is almost comical. A half day park for triple the money-really genius.

I find it odd that you don't see selling cheap toys marked up 1000% as nickel and diming but you find offering something "exclusive" to people as.
You may value that overpriced junk but I don't. I value not having to deal with crowds and riding a couple favorite attractions during my time there.
It just seems like your issue is that you want something exclusive too but you aren't willing to pay for it and are mad that Disney decided to offer it to people who are.



As PP have said, this was an artificial need created by Disney who then turned around and started selling a solution. I find that underhanded and slick, no matter how bitter that might make me sound. And it is being speculated EVERYWEHERE that Disney's aim is the wealthy-it is not my imagination.

I AM concerned with the future of WDW. I think if they continue along this path, everyone will lose out in the end.

Disney's aim is anyone who is willing to pay, and yes the wealthy have more disposable income so there is nothing wrong with offering something that would appeal to them. Are you equally as mad about the tours that costs $100s of dollars an hour? How about the fireworks cruises? The deluxe resorts? Signature restaurants?
These are nothing new and as fas as I know Disney didn't stop selling park tickets to us regular folk when people started buying the tours. They didn't stop their firework shows for the people in the park. They didn't shut down the value resorts or the counter service restaurants.
Offering something extra that costs extra doesn't equate to only wanting the wealthy there. Maybe its Disney's way of enticing them to come and vacation with us rabble. (that was a joke BTW).

 

[Planogirl]

Unlike the Christmas Parties, these morning events (if they continue to offer breakfast) are limited by the number of people the restaurant can serve at any given time and the queue lengths (since that is the part of the "magic" you are paying for .. NO lines).

You will have some very unhappy guests if you pay for this exclusive event and cannot simply WALK ON the rides.
They can't sell a LOT more tickets as they are limited by the capacity and turnover rate of the restaurants. You don't want unhappy guests that have to wait for breakfast that they paid an arm and a leg for.

While I don't doubt they will increase the limit if it is in high demand, I think they will do other things first rather than ruin the "exclusive" feel of the event.
1) increase the mornings it is offered
2) create a 2nd instance of it at a given park. (Like offer a "Tomorrowland" version of this where you get SM, Buzz and the Speedway with breakfast at Cosmic Rays).
3) Package it with the existing places that serve PPO breakfast for slightly more. (Get breakfast reservation at BOG and get access to the three rides).

They are limited for now. The holiday parties were also more limited at one time and they have become more and more crowded. I don't see any reason to believe that the upsells won't track the same way.

 

[tlmadden73]

Will they ever do evening hours?

They tried that and it only had a few runs before it was cancelled. I think the price was way too high and it didn't include the "value" of a meal included.
(It was like $160 for 3+ hours of park time after park close). They had to give away tickets to try and get people to come.
I bet they will go back to the drawing board though and find a price /value point that would entice more people. If they bundled it into a dinner package and made it cheaper, I bet it would be nearly as popular as the morning events seem to be.

They are limited for now. The holiday parties were also more limited at one time and they have become more and more crowded. I don't see any reason to believe that the upsells won't track the same way.

But the parties have the capacity of the WHOLE park to expand to. The purpose of the parties is to see/do special things that you don't get on a regular night.

A morning event whose main purpose is to give you "no line" access to several rides and M&Gs won't do well if they increase the capacity too much to the point you actually HAVE to wait in longer lines.

 

[Planogirl]

But the parties have the capacity of the WHOLE park to expand to. The purpose of the parties is to see/do special things that you don't get on a regular night.

A morning event whose main purpose is to give you "no line" access to several rides and M&Gs won't do well if they increase the capacity too much to the point you actually HAVE to wait in longer lines.

I agree but I've seen Disney change the parameters for events and the like many times. I'm not saying that they will or won't but it's something to keep in mind in my opinion.

 

[Regan117]

It is only a "thing" later in the day after morning EMH are over. During the time that morning EMHs are ongoing, it is brilliant. You can walk on to almost every attraction and have very limited waits at even the most popular. No one has ever posted here that the crowds from 8:00-9:00 were unmanageable.


But that's the whole thing. People don't get a choice. People who want exclusive access to the park at 7:45 have it. That's fine. Go for it. But what would be so wrong with granting people non-exclusive access on other days? Right now it isn't "take your pick". It is either "buy exclusive access or don't." A better option would be to have exclusive access several times a week and non-exclusive access several times a week. If a system like that were in place, there would be absolutely no reason for anyone to argue about this. You make your selection and move on. But right now, for the week we're currently in, (week of 7/10), there are no days when people can enjoy non-exclusive access to the MK at 8:00. It is either pay extra, or enter at 9:00. Those aren't "even up" choices.

I tack this up to life's not fair. Not everything needs to be fair to everyone, just because some people can justify the cost and some can't. And Disney is still a company whose sole purpose is to make MONEY. They don't need to get permission to add more events to their parks that make money. Does nickel and diming sometimes suck? Sure. But again, just don't do it. You aren't LOSING anything. The park would have been closed for that hour and 15 minutes anyway. You can STILL make your PPO breakfast reservations and you can still do RD at 9am of you so please, and it doesn't change anything. The fact that people are so appalled that Disney wants to find more ways to make money is kind of funny - like they need to run it by you at first.

Premium experiences are ALWAYS going to have an audience, whether it's at Disney, a concert, a sporting event, etc.

 

[Missyrose]

OK , well maybe boycott was not the right word for my post title . I don't mean to tell anyone how or where to spend their money . The purpose of my OP was to point out that we could be looking at a situation where Disney execs decide that this model , EMM , is a way to give anyone early access to the parks (and that is the way they will sell it ) , not just resort guests getting EMH , which will be phased out not only saving them money but making them more money . Basically a bait and switch , selling exclusivity that gradually becomes more and more crowded and less exclusive . In other words just like EMH .

There are plenty of people who stay offsite and feel like those who pay to stay onsite are paying for exclusivity (in the form of EMH). Everyone gets to pick their poison. You feel like Disney resorts are a good value for you, others would rather stay somewhere cheaper and pay for one upsell morning at one park.

Crowd levels are down, prices are up. But at the end of the day, Disney will make its money and all you can do is figure out what you personally are willing to pay.

 

[IrishNYC]

You mean upsell....that particular upsell.
Free dining isn't a discount.

It's not a discount to someone that goes to Disney for every vacation, and knows when to time it right to get free dining or a room discount, or whatever, but for the more casual, once in a lifetime or once or twice a decade, visitor, it is a discount. I have a trip booked for September 2017, room, tickets, DDP. I know as of when I booked it will cost $x, and I'm comfortable with that. If free dining comes out for then, as it usually does, I'll happily take that discount of $800.

Not for us . When you factor in a car rental , gas , parking fees , and the cost of the event for each person staying on property , with free EMH is cheaper .

The cost of car rental, etc. is irrelevant here. It's your choice to do that, even with some off-site hotels that offer transportation to the park.

You are worrying too much about something that isn't affecting you at all. You say you don't use morning EMH, and the evening paid events have not been extended. It's just like your post about the 4 parks having an equal number of attractions/rides - life isn't fair, life isn't equal. If Disney isn't a good value for YOUR dollar for YOUR family, YOU don't have to keep going to Disney.

 

[JimmyV]

We already have exactly what you're talking about: days of exclusivity that you can pay for, and days of non-exclusivity where everyone can enter the park at the same time for "free" at 9:00

You misread my post. I said 8:00, not 9:00. If I thought that non-exclusive access at 9:00 was the trade-off for exclusive access at 8:00, then you would be correct. But I said that non-exclusive access at 8:00 would be the fair trade-off for exclusive access at 8:00 and we do not have that.

 

[mom2rtk]

No offense but this argument doesn't even really make any sense. We already have exactly what you're talking about: days of exclusivity that you can pay for, and days of non-exclusivity where everyone can enter the park at the same time for "free" at 9:00 - that hour between 9 and 10 is still great touring time, for everyone. Your argument I'm assuming is that the park should just open at 8:00 the others days of the week for everyone. But that would mean doing away with EMH completely, which is still a draw for resort guests.

"free"......

 

[Regan117]

I just don't understand how this is any different than buying a VIP package to a concert. Should I feel bad I have a better seat than you or we got in earlier? It's the same thing. I understand why people feel priced out of things, but no one is forcing you to pay for these events, and your EMH aren't being taken away. This entire thread is a whole lot of whining based on assumptions with no basis in fact. Why not wait until the event starts and see how it goes? Because the reviews for EMM at MK have been really favorable and haven't affected anything else.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Are you equally as mad about the tours that costs $100s of dollars an hour? Signature restaurants?

I would be if they suddenly said that Tony's was a signature restaurant and charged higher prices for it. Even though the food was the same food and the experience of going there was the same.


As for VIP tours...they have blocked areas that used to be free to stand in to watch the fireworks. So in a way, the VIP tours have impacted other park guests. Now if they created a whole new premium viewing area that was never utilized before and sold it at an upcharge, fine..

ETA I don't eat at Tonys...just trying to think of a comparable mediocre food experience to a food buffet.

 

[JimmyV]

You aren't LOSING anything.

I am losing the 8:00 a.m. entry time that I used to have included in my ticket price. Yes, there was a time when the 8:00-9:00 was not monetized. And you are correct. This can be chalked up to "life isn't fair". But when unfairness is detected, there is no crime in trying to lessen it.

 

[JimmyV]

I just don't understand how this is any different than buying a VIP package to a concert.

I would say that the VIP Tour that Disney offers with FP access to all rides is more the equivalent to a VIP package to a concert. The concert starts and ends at the same time for all attendees. It is only the seating that changes. You do not get extra songs. EMM gets you more "songs". If people want to buy their way out of long lines, there is already a way to do that and it doesn't involve closing down the park to other guests. I understand that exclusivity is a valued commodity. Fine. Book a VIP Tour.

 

[Regan117]

I would say that the VIP Tour that Disney offers with FP access to all rides is more the equivalent to a VIP package to a concert. The concert starts and ends at the same time for all attendees. It is only the seating that changes. You do not get extra songs. EMM gets you more "songs". If people want to buy their way out of long lines, there is already a way to do that and it doesn't involve closing down the park to other guests. I understand that exclusivity is a valued commodity. Fine. Book a VIP Tour.

No, that isn't true. You get into the venue several hours early. You can special access to certain parts of the venue others don't. You get food and drink. You sometimes get to watch sound check. You sometimes get to meet the artist. At least, that is what is included in the VIP packages I'M buying to concerts...

And closing down the park to other guests? The park wouldn't have been open to begin with.

 

[Regan117]

I am losing the 8:00 a.m. entry time that I used to have included in my ticket price. Yes, there was a time when the 8:00-9:00 was not monetized. And you are correct. This can be chalked up to "life isn't fair". But when unfairness is detected, there is no crime in trying to lessen it.

The park hours are never a guarantee. There also aren't EMH every single day at every single park. So again, I reiterate, you're losing nothing. Having EMM two days per week at one park doesn't affect EMH in any way.

 

[captain america 2003]

It's not a discount to someone that goes to Disney for every vacation, and knows when to time it right to get free dining or a room discount, or whatever, but for the more casual, once in a lifetime or once or twice a decade, visitor, it is a discount. I have a trip booked for September 2017, room, tickets, DDP. I know as of when I booked it will cost $x, and I'm comfortable with that. If free dining comes out for then, as it usually does, I'll happily take that discount of $800.





The cost of car rental, etc. is irrelevant here. It's your choice to do that, even with some off-site hotels that offer transportation to the park.

You are worrying too much about something that isn't affecting you at all. You say you don't use morning EMH, and the evening paid events have not been extended. It's just like your post about the 4 parks having an equal number of attractions/rides - life isn't fair, life isn't equal. If Disney isn't a good value for YOUR dollar for YOUR family, YOU don't have to keep going to Disney.

We love Disney , with or without EMH morning or evening we will still go . I don' t think that there is anything wrong with the fact that I am trying to get anyone who likes and uses EMH , like my family , to think twice before purchasing EMM tickets or if it is brought back the AfterHours ticket . I believe that if these "tests" are successful it will eventually lead to the end of EMH and I and I'm sure many others do not want to see that happen . I also believe , as I've said in a previous post that these "limited , exclusive" events will change from what they are now to something a lot like the current EMH with the only exception being that now Disney is getting you to pay for it .

 

[mshanson3121]

You misread my post. I said 8:00, not 9:00. If I thought that non-exclusive access at 9:00 was the trade-off for exclusive access at 8:00, then you would be correct. But I said that non-exclusive access at 8:00 would be the fair trade-off for exclusive access at 8:00 and we do not have that.

You didnt read what I said - I already addressed that in my post. Doing what you want to do, would do away with EMH which is still a draw for guests.

 

[mshanson3121]

I am losing the 8:00 a.m. entry time that I used to have included in my ticket price. Yes, there was a time when the 8:00-9:00 was not monetized. And you are correct. This can be chalked up to "life isn't fair". But when unfairness is detected, there is no crime in trying to lessen it.

You're not losing anything. 8 am entry hasn't been standard in quite some time.