"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[CampbellzSoup]

Pastor John Hannah organized those protests - not the Black Lives Matter movement. Provide more substance to your sources please.

 

[bcla]

I somewhat agree with what your saying, But if I said statistically white people are more racist, would you agree because there is a trend in this country of white people displaying racism towards minorities way more than any other race in this country.

I've seen plenty of racism to go around.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

No, I suppose they aren't "focused" on crime within the black community. But to say they don't care about it is simply untrue. BLM has a national platform to talk about racism and the ways in which they feel disenfranchised and powerless at the hands of the powers that be. They're trying to raise awareness of specific problems. I'm not sure why people expect them to broaden that. The cancer charity comparison is apt. We don't expect breast cancer charities to talk about prostate cancer, even though we all know it's a problem. Heart disease kills more women than breast cancer, but we don't expect breast cancer charities to send the money they raise to the American Heart Association instead.

I don't think that's an apt comparison at all.

If my cause is finding a cure for breast cancer, talking about heart disease doesn't a) get to the root cause of breast cancer, nor b) in any way support or draw attention to my cause.

If my cause is drawing attention to the fact that "Black Lives Matter" -- saving lives of black people taken by shooting or other violent act, then addressing elevated crime rates in the black community and what might be at the root of that DOES a) get to the root cause of saving black lives (wrt police shootings AND inner city crime), AND b) support and draw attention to my cause.

If they FOCUSED on elevated crime rates in the black community as a core issue, they would have a much greater chance of getting support for their cause from the widest possible audience, and actually stand a chance at making a real difference in reducing deaths.

But that would involve introspection as much as it would involved looking to outward causes. I don't think BLM is interested in that at all.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I would not use that type of reason to justify an ill-advised action like Zimmerman's. And if I recall, the police told him NOT to follow Trayvon!

I don't think that's at all the same thing as being slightly more on alert late at night on a city street when passing someone who fits the description of people who have been robbing people at knifepoint and recently stabbed someone -- like in my neighborhood now. That is self-preservation and common sense that some are trying to turn into behavior worthy of labeling racist. I think that's ridiculous, and does a disservice to the legitimate cause of drawing attention to real cases of racism, institutional and otherwise.

I think you're making it a more specific thing but I'm talking in general.
Yeah if you hear on the new that an x make with x hair and a blue baseball cap is attacking people in a certain area then of course you'd be on alert if you're in that area and you see someone fitting that description.
I'm talking in general though with no specific warning.
Racial profile is a real cause of institutional racism, an important one. If you're walking down the street and you are more suspicious of a black guy just because he's a black guy and so you think he's more likely to be a criminal then that is part of the problem.

 

[cabanafrau]

I've seen plenty of racism to go around.

If ever there was a great equalizer, that sadly may be it. Every race has its horses' behinds.

 

[wilkeliza]

Something I've been thinking a lot about lately and was brought up again by the topic of what the media and entertainment brings up.

Think of what has been our entertainment for years. Breaking Bad, Weeds, Sons of Anarchy, and The Sopranos all had white leads doing really bad stuff. However, time after time when something happened to these characters we didn't say oh they deserved it. We were upset their characters died or had deals go wrong or whatever. I started to think if there was anything that was similar with the black community and the most recent I came up with was the real story of Straight Out of Compton. Instead of feeling anything for these guys who also were driven to do what they did and then tried to get out of it many write it off as them being young thugs and asking for it. That was really eye opening for me. One it is justified as a means to the end (money to keep kids fed, or medical help etc) and the other it is thugs doing what thugs do.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I don't think that's an apt comparison at all.

If my cause is finding a cure for breast cancer, talking about heart disease doesn't a) get to the root cause of breast cancer, nor b) in any way support or draw attention to my cause.

If my cause is drawing attention to the fact that "Black Lives Matter" -- saving lives of black people taken by shooting or other violent act, then addressing elevated crime rates in the black community and what might be at the root of that DOES a) get to the root cause of saving black lives (wrt police shootings AND inner city crime), AND b) support and draw attention to my cause.

If they FOCUSED on elevated crime rates in the black community as a core issue, they would have a much greater chance of getting support for their cause from the widest possible audience, and actually stand a chance at making a real difference in reducing deaths.

But that would involve introspection as much as it would involved looking to outward causes. I don't think BLM is interested in that at all.

Think about it this way.

If breast cancer is a cause you devote your time to, how would you feel about people telling you that unless you are trying to cure all cancers they think you are insincere and just cherry picking a cause? Why just breast cancer? Aren't other cancers just as important? What makes breast cancer so special?

 

[bcla]

If ever there was a great equalizer, that sadly may be it. Every race has its horses' behinds.

I went to a diverse high school that drew from everything from upper middle class (mostly white) neighborhoods to black/latino housing projects. It was an interesting experiment.

Strangely enough, we mostly self-segregated among class and educational lines. The kids who were clearly bound for college and who mostly were middle-class hung together whether we were white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc. However, we got a lesson in the real world. The poorer black kids were often racist towards the white and Asian kids. The poorer black kids also didn't get along with the middle-class black kids. I saw plenty of it, and no one group failed to have members who I would consider racist towards other groups.

 

[cabanafrau]

Something I've been thinking a lot about lately and was brought up again by the topic of what the media and entertainment brings up.

Think of what has been our entertainment for years. Breaking Bad, Weeds, Sons of Anarchy, and The Sopranos all had white leads doing really bad stuff. However, time after time when something happened to these characters we didn't say oh they deserved it. We were upset their characters died or had deals go wrong or whatever. I started to think if there was anything that was similar with the black community and the most recent I came up with was the real story of Straight Out of Compton. Instead of feeling anything for these guys who also were driven to do what they did and then tried to get out of it many write it off as them being young thugs and asking for it. That was really eye opening for me. One it is justified as a means to the end (money to keep kids fed, or medical help etc) and the other it is thugs doing what thugs do.

Have to disagree with you about two of the television characters, only watched two of the shows. Had a hard time finding a lot to like in Tony Soprano, and his whiney wife. Probably only reason I accepted Tony much at all is because I really liked James Gandolfini. Not even my Bryan Cranston appreciation could convince me to do anything but loathe Walter White as the series went on. Both were still great performances in series I really liked, but I don't think you can simply make a blanket statement like that because I don't think it holds up.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Think about it this way.

If breast cancer is a cause you devote your time to, how would you feel about people telling you that unless you are trying to cure all cancers they think you are insincere and just cherry picking a cause? Why just breast cancer? Aren't other cancers just as important? What makes breast cancer so special?

Then perhaps they've chosen their name EXTREMELY poorly. "Black Lives Matter... if taken by a police shooting" may be more apt.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Something I've been thinking a lot about lately and was brought up again by the topic of what the media and entertainment brings up.

Think of what has been our entertainment for years. Breaking Bad, Weeds, Sons of Anarchy, and The Sopranos all had white leads doing really bad stuff. However, time after time when something happened to these characters we didn't say oh they deserved it. We were upset their characters died or had deals go wrong or whatever. I started to think if there was anything that was similar with the black community and the most recent I came up with was the real story of Straight Out of Compton. Instead of feeling anything for these guys who also were driven to do what they did and then tried to get out of it many write it off as them being young thugs and asking for it. That was really eye opening for me. One it is justified as a means to the end (money to keep kids fed, or medical help etc) and the other it is thugs doing what thugs do.

Maybe I'm just odd, but I thought that ALL of those characters got what they deserved. You feel for all of them as flawed human beings, etc at SOME point, but they directly caused their own misfortunes.

ETA: Same with Nurse Jackie. At first I really liked her... Saw her as flawed but basically good. As her despicable deeds piled up, that went right out the window!!

 

[cabanafrau]

Think about it this way.

If breast cancer is a cause you devote your time to, how would you feel about people telling you that unless you are trying to cure all cancers they think you are insincere and just cherry picking a cause? Why just breast cancer? Aren't other cancers just as important? What makes breast cancer so special?

Then perhaps they've chosen their name EXTREMELY poorly. "Black Lives Matter... if taken by a police shooting" may be more apt.

Oh, they've chosen a poor name IMO, but not for the reason suggested. The name doesn't address the problem of inequitable policing and the threat that is to everyone, or why it's everybody's problem. It also perpetuates division needlessly. All of those reasons diminish the pool of support. Who does that serve?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Just one more comment for today before I go off to make the mango quinoa salad that I've promised my kids I'd make ...

Threads on the DIS about STROLLERS often don't make it 46 pages!!! I think that it is fantastic that we have been having a dialogue on this thread without being mean and nasty to one another. Disagreeing in some cases, but without being disagreeable... almost exclusively.

I think that THIS is a good sign... Honestly, perhaps the most optimistic I've felt about this entire issue for a very long time -- despite the continuing challenges.

Thank you, all!!

 

[CPanther95]

Just one more comment for today before I go off to make the mango quinoa salad that I've promised my kids I'd make ...

Threads on the DIS about STROLLERS often don't make it 46 pages!!! I think that it is fantastic that we have been having a dialogue on this thread without being mean and nasty to one another. Disagreeing in some cases, but without being disagreeable... almost exclusively.

I think that THIS is a good sign... Honestly, perhaps the most optimistic I've felt about this entire issue for a very long time -- despite the continuing challenges.

Thank you, all!!

Before we get too carried away with the high fives, I think it's important to note that the same group of posters has carried the Teen Mom 2 thread to 71 pages.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Before we get too carried away with the high fives, I think it's important to note that the same group of posters has carried the Teen Mom 2 thread to 71 pages.

I do not know the thread of which you speak... perhaps better that it stay that way?!?!?!

 

[bcla]

Oh, they've chosen a poor name IMO, but not for the reason suggested. The name doesn't address the problem of inequitable policing and the threat that is to everyone, or why it's everybody's problem. It also perpetuates division needlessly. All of those reasons diminish the pool of support. Who does that serve?

I thought the name was supposed to counter a certain belief or perhaps fatalism that black lives are essentially expendible.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Before we get too carried away with the high fives, I think it's important to note that the same group of posters has carried the Teen Mom 2 thread to 71 pages.

You just wait until the Pokemon Go thread really gets going...

 

[wilkeliza]

Have to disagree with you about two of the television characters, only watched two of the shows. Had a hard time finding a lot to like in Tony Soprano, and his whiney wife. Probably only reason I accepted Tony much at all is because I really liked James Gandolfini. Not even my Bryan Cranston appreciation could convince me to do anything but loathe Walter White as the series went on. Both were still great performances in series I really liked, but I don't think you can simply make a blanket statement like that because I don't think it holds up.

Maybe I'm just odd, but I thought that ALL of those characters got what they deserved. You feel for all of them as flawed human beings, etc at SOME point, but they directly caused their own misfortunes.

ETA: Same with Nurse Jackie. At first I really liked her... Saw her as flawed but basically good. As her despicable deeds piled up, that went right out the window!!

I'm glad both of you see that all of them were bad people but I have experience people who fell over crying when someone died on Sons of Anarchy but then seeing the real life stories in Straight of Compton said well those thugs deserved it. I wasn't saying everyone reacts so polar to these but there is a group of people who do.

I actually remember Weeds tackling that in either seaon 1 or 2. The hispanic guy said the lead had the perfect cover because she was just a white suburban mom but if he had a nice house in a nice area everyone would assume he was a drug dealer so he would get caught a lot faster.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Something I've been thinking a lot about lately and was brought up again by the topic of what the media and entertainment brings up.

Think of what has been our entertainment for years. Breaking Bad, Weeds, Sons of Anarchy, and The Sopranos all had white leads doing really bad stuff. However, time after time when something happened to these characters we didn't say oh they deserved it. We were upset their characters died or had deals go wrong or whatever. I started to think if there was anything that was similar with the black community and the most recent I came up with was the real story of Straight Out of Compton. Instead of feeling anything for these guys who also were driven to do what they did and then tried to get out of it many write it off as them being young thugs and asking for it. That was really eye opening for me. One it is justified as a means to the end (money to keep kids fed, or medical help etc) and the other it is thugs doing what thugs do.

I think that's a real stretch and it's not even an apples to apples comparison.

Do viewers care about the characters on Empire?

 

[CPanther95]

I'm glad both of you see that all of them were bad people but I have experience people who fell over crying when someone died on Sons of Anarchy but then seeing the real life stories in Straight of Compton said well those thugs deserved it. I wasn't saying everyone reacts so polar to these but there is a group of people who do.

I see zero to compare when you are talking about fictional characters vs real life criminals.