"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yes. Besides I think that always being thrown into a discussion is just a diversion tactic . In a way, it's really a whole different thing itself. Yes it needs to be addressed but separately because otherwise it's just a big jumble of things and there's no focus, everything gets lost in the mix.

I disagree. The commonality is young black males and the disproportionately high crime rate. That's at play in police shootings, and at play in cities like Chicago. I think that this would legitimately be a core concern for anyone (and any group) ACTUALLY interested in arriving at real solutions.

 

[sunshinehighway]

While there "lies, damned lies, and then statistics" , one cannot mount a legitimate argument against the idea that young black males commit violent crimes and a vastly disproportionate rate. That's not racist. That's factual. I think that getting to the root of WHY THAT IS is more likely where solutions are -- and I don't think that BLM has any interest in that.

I don't think re-litigating any particular case makes a lot of sense at this point, but just want to check my recollection of something re: Trayvon Martin. I vaguely remember hearing that there had been thefts from homes in that predominantly white neighborhood, and that young black males were suspects. Is that right? If so, that is an alternate explanation to racism as to why he would have been referred to as "suspicious" in that context by some people. Though Zimmerman is clearly a piece of work, so I wouldn't necessarily be so charitable to him in my interpretation.

That's a problem though. Just because there were some burglaries in the neighborhood, it's wrong to suspect any black man who happens to be walking down the street could be the burglar. Not only that but suspect him to the point you are following him and calling the police.
Oh I forgot to add, the neighborhood was a mix of races, I don't think it would be considered predominately white

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

That's a problem though. Just because there were some burglaries in the neighborhood, it's wrong to suspect any black man who happens to be walking down the street could be the burglar. Not only that but suspect him to the point you are following him and calling the police.

Uh, what?!?! Who's following him and calling the police?!?! I obviously never said that, nor would I do that!!

I'd likely feel more of a reason to be alert and aware -- that's about as far as it goes for me.

Do you mean Zimmerman?? I think that guy was flat out unhinged and out of control. Ridiculous, the way he acted.

---
ETA: Thanks for the respectful dialogue all -- have to jump from DIS now and will check in another time.

 

[kamik86]

One thing to add as well though. Just because we state something that could be negetiave is a trend we notice in a race doesn't mean you are being racist.

There is a streotype about spanish people being loud. I had a spanish speaking roomate and a few friends that spoke it in college and asked them about this when I realized that they as individuals spoke louder when speaking spanish then when speaking english. Instead of getting offended they thought about it for a moment and realized that they do. They aren't sure why but yes they do tend to be louder. So apparently the spanish language is just spoken loudly. (Which hey thats cool I'm loud too even when speaking English!)

As for crime stating that statistically black males commit more crime is not necessarily being racist it could just be noticing a trend. Maybe that is a trend that also needs to be looked at as a problem to be solved to determine why this is the case, instead of denying that it happens. Maybe the issue actually is the media and it has kids thinking that is what they are supposed to do (the comment about a black child telling another he was acting white by getting good grades) that someone made comes to mind.

If the media can make a perfectly healthy young girl think she is fat I wouldn't be surprised that the media could make a perfectly respectable young man feel he should misbehave and lead to criminal activity.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Uh, what?!?! Who's following him and calling the police?!?! I obviously never said that, nor would I do that!!

I'd likely feel more of a reason to be alert and aware -- that's about as far as it goes for me.

---
ETA: Thanks for the respectful dialogue all -- have to jump from DIS now and will check in another time.

I'm not saying you'd follow and call police. That's what happened with Trayvon Martin.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I'm not saying you'd follow and call police. That's what happened with Trayvon Martin.

Whew!! Guessed that after the fact and added to my post above!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Yes. Besides I think that always being thrown into a discussion is just a diversion tactic . In a way, it's really a whole different thing itself. Yes it needs to be addressed but separately because otherwise it's just a big jumble of things and there's no focus, everything gets lost in the mix.

Yes & no. I mean the same neighborhoods producing a lot of black on black violence produce the majority of the cop on black violence.

Yes, different subjects. But at the same time, they are intrinsically linked.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Yes & no. I mean the same neighborhoods producing a lot of black on black violence produce the majority of the cop on black violence.

Yes, different subjects. But at the same time, they are intrinsically linked.

Yes they are linked in many ways. It's just too much at this point to jumble all together.

 

[kellyjeanie]

Where are the protests?

http://wgntv.com/2016/05/21/thousands-take-to-chicago-streets-for-rally-against-violence/

http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/local/142740202-story

 

[sunshinehighway]

Whew!! Guessed that after the fact and added to my post above!

All good.

Yeah Zimmerman has clearly proven himself to be a flat out racist.
I guess my point was more about how it's the same line of reasoning he used. It's the same line of reasoning lots of the comments I was reading and thought were terrible used. I wasnt comfortable with using the same type of reasoning and realized that just because I wasn't taking it as far that I was any less wrong in my thought process than I thought they were.

 

[phillyprincess39]

Where are the protests?

The protest happens in the black community which you wouldnt be aware of because A.you dont venture into black communties and B. they don't show it on TV because it would go against the stereotype that black people arent concerned about their community.

 

[Colleen27]

The organization (or at least this group) that says it's against racism is racist itself? But they are saying that the library is racist? Do they really not get it?

This is one of the problems with a grassroots movement with no central structure or authority figures - anyone can use the name, good or bad. The local BLM groups I'm familiar with would be appalled at the idea of a blacks-only meeting; they actively seek to engage white "allies" (to borrow the term from the LGBT rights activists) as well as skeptics in positions of power/influence (community and religious leaders, local politicians, influential media figures, etc). The first time I covered a BLM event I worried that as a middle-aged, middle-class white chick I'd stick out like a sore thumb and be generally unwelcome but that has never been the case.

I disagree. The commonality is young black males and the disproportionately high crime rate. That's at play in police shootings, and at play in cities like Chicago. I think that this would legitimately be a core concern for anyone (and any group) ACTUALLY interested in arriving at real solutions.

But even that is an oversimplification of a chicken-and-egg problem. Study after study has shown similar rates of drug use, shoplifting, and other petty crimes between black and white youth populations, but the rate of prosecutions and convictions for these offenses is much, much higher for young black men than for their white counterparts. That is then used to justify the higher level of police scrutiny directed towards young blacks which in turn supports the higher rate of criminal justice involvement in the youthful mistakes of black teens/young adults. And on and on it goes.

 

[Colleen27]

The protest happens in the black community which you wouldnt be aware of because A.you dont venture into black communties and B. they don't show it on TV because it would go against the stereotype that black people arent concerned about their community.

And C. There's nothing shocking or negative about it that would attract ratings.

For those who think BLM and other groups only protest police, I would strongly suggest seeking our the "alternative" newspaper in your nearest major city. You'll see coverage of the neighborhoods and the local in a way that the major news outlets aren't doing right now, and you'll probably also get interviews with community leaders and others who are actively involved in seeking change at all levels. But if you're just looking at what makes the Channel 2 evening news, you'd never know any of it was happening.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The protest happens in the black community which you wouldnt be aware of because A.you dont venture into black communties and B. they don't show it on TV because it would go against the stereotype that black people arent concerned about their community.

I think it would be disingenuous to put forth that BLM is really focused on crime within the black community. Have there been some protests? Sure. If they wanted more publicity for these they could get it. And the anti-police protests by BLM far outnumber any other type they have -- in number and in attendance. Yet murders within the black community ABSOLUTELY DWARF all police shooting deaths combined.

But even that is an oversimplification of a chicken-and-egg problem. Study after study has shown similar rates of drug use, shoplifting, and other petty crimes between black and white youth populations, but the rate of prosecutions and convictions for these offenses is much, much higher for young black men than for their white counterparts.

I don't believe this is at all accurate or supported by any reputable studies wrt violent crime -- that's the real issue that leads to most police shootings and the thousands of deaths annually in cities like Chicago. Please do share them if you have them.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

All good.

Yeah Zimmerman has clearly proven himself to be a flat out racist.
I guess my point was more about how it's the same line of reasoning he used. It's the same line of reasoning lots of the comments I was reading and thought were terrible used. I wasnt comfortable with using the same type of reasoning and realized that just because I wasn't taking it as far that I was any less wrong in my thought process than I thought they were.

I would not use that type of reason to justify an ill-advised action like Zimmerman's. And if I recall, the police told him NOT to follow Trayvon!

I don't think that's at all the same thing as being slightly more on alert late at night on a city street when passing someone who fits the description of people who have been robbing people at knifepoint and recently stabbed someone -- like in my neighborhood now. That is self-preservation and common sense that some are trying to turn into behavior worthy of labeling racist. I think that's ridiculous, and does a disservice to the legitimate cause of drawing attention to real cases of racism, institutional and otherwise.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

The protest happens in the black community which you wouldnt be aware of because A.you dont venture into black communties and B. they don't show it on TV because it would go against the stereotype that black people arent concerned about their community.

A.) I'm half black, and have grown up in a "black community"

B.) Provide sources / news outlet to the information you are stating.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yes they are linked in many ways. It's just too much at this point to jumble all together.

I disagree that this is jumbling anything. It is getting close to a root cause -- getting closer to examining why there are higher incidences of violent crime in some populations, and what might be done to reduce those rates. It's at least PART OF the root contributor to inner city murders AND shootings by police -- it gets to BOTH. How is that "jumbled" if one really cares about saving black lives?

 

[kellyjeanie]

I think it would be disingenuous to put forth that BLM is really focused on crime within the black community. Have there been some protests? Sure. If they wanted more publicity for these they could get it. And the anti-police protests by BLM far outnumber any other type they have -- in number and in attendance.


I don't believe this is at all accurate or supported by any reputable studies wrt violent crime -- that's the real issue that leads to police shooting and the thousands of deaths annually in cities like Chicago. Please do share them if you have them.

No, I suppose they aren't "focused" on crime within the black community. But to say they don't care about it is simply untrue. BLM has a national platform to talk about racism and the ways in which they feel disenfranchised and powerless at the hands of the powers that be. They're trying to raise awareness of specific problems. I'm not sure why people expect them to broaden that. The cancer charity comparison is apt. We don't expect breast cancer charities to talk about prostate cancer, even though we all know it's a problem. Heart disease kills more women than breast cancer, but we don't expect breast cancer charities to send the money they raise to the American Heart Association instead.

 

[kellyjeanie]

A.) I'm half black, and have grown up in a "black community"

B.) Provide sources / news outlet to the information you are stating.

I already posted these, and I didn't have to look too hard to find them -

http://wgntv.com/2016/05/21/thousands-take-to-chicago-streets-for-rally-against-violence/

http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/local/142740202-story

 

[phillyprincess39]

One thing to add as well though. Just because we state something that could be negetiave is a trend we notice in a race doesn't mean you are being racist.

There is a streotype about spanish people being loud. I had a spanish speaking roomate and a few friends that spoke it in college and asked them about this when I realized that they as individuals spoke louder when speaking spanish then when speaking english. Instead of getting offended they thought about it for a moment and realized that they do. They aren't sure why but yes they do tend to be louder. So apparently the spanish language is just spoken loudly. (Which hey thats cool I'm loud too even when speaking English!)

As for crime stating that statistically black males commit more crime is not necessarily being racist it could just be noticing a trend. Maybe that is a trend that also needs to be looked at as a problem to be solved to determine why this is the case, instead of denying that it happens. Maybe the issue actually is the media and it has kids thinking that is what they are supposed to do (the comment about a black child telling another he was acting white by getting good grades) that someone made comes to mind.

If the media can make a perfectly healthy young girl think she is fat I wouldn't be surprised that the media could make a perfectly respectable young man feel he should misbehave and lead to criminal activity.

I somewhat agree with what your saying, But if I said statistically white people are more racist, would you agree because there is a trend in this country of white people displaying racism towards minorities way more than any other race in this country.