"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[wilkeliza]

It is clear I'm not getting across the point I was trying to make so I'll just leave it where it is.

It shouldn't matter than some are fictional and others were real. It was still the way people reacted to the representation of similar events in entertainment.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'm glad both of you see that all of them were bad people but I have experience people who fell over crying when someone died on Sons of Anarchy but then seeing the real life stories in Straight of Compton said well those thugs deserved it. I wasn't saying everyone reacts so polar to these but there is a group of people who do.

I actually remember Weeds tackling that in either seaon 1 or 2. The hispanic guy said the lead had the perfect cover because she was just a white suburban mom but if he had a nice house in a nice area everyone would assume he was a drug dealer so he would get caught a lot faster.

If Straight Outta Compton were a 7-year fictional show that allowed you to become invested in the character, I'm sure the reaction would be different.

 

[Disneychick75]

I agree with the poster who said the group should have named themselves Black Lives Matter Too. That is an inclusive phrase as opposed to BLM. All lives matter and White Privilege is not so much a privilege as a burden anymore. People hate me because I'm white although I have never done anything to hurt anyone. My husband and I adopted our daughter knowing she was of mixed race.She is furious over BLM. She says White, Black, Blue, -the lives all matter and people should be working together instead of causing strife. People have also blamed the media which I think is right. They jump and make inferences before all of the facts are known. Being first with a story and being wrong is not good journalism.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Something I've been thinking a lot about lately and was brought up again by the topic of what the media and entertainment brings up.

Think of what has been our entertainment for years. Breaking Bad, Weeds, Sons of Anarchy, and The Sopranos all had white leads doing really bad stuff. However, time after time when something happened to these characters we didn't say oh they deserved it. We were upset their characters died or had deals go wrong or whatever. I started to think if there was anything that was similar with the black community and the most recent I came up with was the real story of Straight Out of Compton. Instead of feeling anything for these guys who also were driven to do what they did and then tried to get out of it many write it off as them being young thugs and asking for it. That was really eye opening for me. One it is justified as a means to the end (money to keep kids fed, or medical help etc) and the other it is thugs doing what thugs do.

...I have no idea what this post is even suppose to mean? You're comparing a fictional serialized television show to a movie based on a real incident?

It is clear I'm not getting across the point I was trying to make so I'll just leave it where it is.

It shouldn't matter than some are fictional and others were real. It was still the way people reacted to the representation of similar events in entertainment.

...but it doesn't matter. The incidents on the movie were based on real people doing real crimes there are no stakes to be had. The shows you referenced are ...fictional, no one is hurt, no one real goes to jail, no one real is effected by the crimes of the character - hence no one cares.

Shows with minority leads such as Orange is the New Black, Empire, and Scandal having people of different colors/backgrounds doing various crimes with the viewers empathizing their plights.

 

[wilkeliza]

...I have no idea what this post is even suppose to mean? You're comparing a fictional serialized television show to a movie based on a real incident?

Again I'm comparing people's reactions to what they took in as entertainment. It shouldn't matter that one of them just so happens to be a movie about real people and incidents. If it has to be equal for equal then lets use Empire. I know several people who won't watch Empire no matter how much you say it is good because in their mind it is a "black show".


It is clear any discussion isn't going to go very far because one side is completely on the defense when you bring up any topic of discussion.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

It is clear I'm not getting across the point I was trying to make so I'll just leave it where it is.

It shouldn't matter than some are fictional and others were real. It was still the way people reacted to the representation of similar events in entertainment.

There were PLENTY of characters that died in SOA that nobody cared about - some whose deaths were celebrated.

 

[cabanafrau]

I think that's a real stretch and it's not even an apples to apples comparison.

Do viewers care about the characters on Empire?

I do, I enjoy Empire very much. I usually dislike Lucious intensely, especially the damage he's done to his sons. Then they show him with his mom and I feel bad for poor Dwight -- and want to tell him, don't sit there eating that cake, run! Terence Howard is a charismatic actor who can pull your emotions much like Gandolfini and Cranston and helps drag you along where the storyline wants you to go.

Most hated of the three characters is still Walter White. Both Tony and Lucious seem to have times here and there where they recognize they aren't good and aren't in the right -- but they do what they do anyway. Walter White was straight up cold. He should have been married to Carmela Soprano.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Again I'm comparing people's reactions to what they took in as entertainment. It shouldn't matter that one of them just so happens to be a movie about real people and incidents. If it has to be equal for equal then lets use Empire. I know several people who won't watch Empire no matter how much you say it is good because in their mind it is a "black show".


It is clear any discussion isn't going to go very far because one side is completely on the defense when you bring up any topic of discussion.

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/ratings-fox-empire-returns-very-strong-return-wednesday-1201742884/

Empire is the highest rated show on Fox, and the most watched show on Wednesday night. I rely on evidence, and statics - I'm sorry your friends don't watch it, however most people do.

A discussion is a debate where people might not agree, and that's the beauty of it - the discussion isn't going anywhere because people are challenging your opinions?

 

[cabanafrau]

I thought the name was supposed to counter a certain belief or perhaps fatalism that black lives are essentially expendible.

Let's say you're correct. It didn't convey the message to me. If you're genuinely trying to solve a problem, don't you want to make everyone aware of the problem you're trying to solve and get as many people as possible trying to solve it?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I don't watch Empire because I don't care for the music. I don't watch Nashville, either. Same reason.

But, I did enjoy Are We There Yet (both the movie & the show with Terry Crews). And I found myself rooting for Denzel Washington in American Gangster even though his character was based on a very real, very reprehensible person.

 

[wilkeliza]

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/ratings-fox-empire-returns-very-strong-return-wednesday-1201742884/

Empire is the highest rated show on Fox, and the most watched show on Wednesday night. I rely on evidence, and statics - I'm sorry your friends don't watch it, however most people do.

A discussion is a debate where people might not agree, and that's the beauty of it - the discussion isn't going anywhere because people are challenging your opinions?

There isn't a discussion though. Someone previously said something about entertainment and how if all people dressed a certain way are portrayed as thugs then that is what they are going to assume everyone dressed like that is. So when I brought up entertainment that showed big differences it was written off because one just so happened to be real and the others weren't.

 

[cabanafrau]

There isn't a discussion though. Someone previously said something about entertainment and how if all people dressed a certain way are portrayed as thugs then that is what they are going to assume everyone dressed like that is. So when I brought up entertainment that showed big differences it was written off because one just so happened to be real and the others weren't.

Hold up a minute. You brought up entertainment that showed big differences in YOUR eyes. I think it's more than a little presumptuous to assume that your perception is THE reality, or that Empire is suffering in viewership because of racial prejudices. I suggest your examples don't hold water.

 

[mummabear]

No, I suppose they aren't "focused" on crime within the black community. But to say they don't care about it is simply untrue. BLM has a national platform to talk about racism and the ways in which they feel disenfranchised and powerless at the hands of the powers that be. They're trying to raise awareness of specific problems. I'm not sure why people expect them to broaden that. The cancer charity comparison is apt. We don't expect breast cancer charities to talk about prostate cancer, even though we all know it's a problem. Heart disease kills more women than breast cancer, but we don't expect breast cancer charities to send the money they raise to the American Heart Association instead.

It is more compareable to the left breast saying its not concerned about the right one having cancer because they arent linked.

write it off as them being young thugs and asking for it

Asking for what? To become rich, famous and successful for decades?

Again I'm comparing people's reactions to what they took in as entertainment. It shouldn't matter that one of them just so happens to be a movie about real people and incidents. If it has to be equal for equal then lets use Empire. I know several people who won't watch Empire no matter how much you say it is good because in their mind it is a "black show".


It is clear any discussion isn't going to go very far because one side is completely on the defense when you bring up any topic of discussion.

And I'm sure there are plenty of black folks that didnt watch friends because it was too white for them....

 

[sunshinehighway]

It is clear I'm not getting across the point I was trying to make so I'll just leave it where it is.

It shouldn't matter than some are fictional and others were real. It was still the way people reacted to the representation of similar events in entertainment.

Your point was clear. There's a lot of being deliberately obtuse in this thread.

 

[CPanther95]

Sounds like a case where people are confusing diversity with racism.

 

[Gracie09]

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/ratings-fox-empire-returns-very-strong-return-wednesday-1201742884/

Empire is the highest rated show on Fox, and the most watched show on Wednesday night. I rely on evidence, and statics - I'm sorry your friends don't watch it, however most people do.

A discussion is a debate where people might not agree, and that's the beauty of it - the discussion isn't going anywhere because people are challenging your opinions?

The total viewership for Empire's season finale was 17.9 million. The total number of people in the US 318.9 million (as of 2014). Statics say that most people are not watching empire. Actually only about 5% of the total population was watching empire. You may get a couple more million on dvr or streaming but still not enough to say most people watched it.

 

[PollyannaMom]

If breast cancer is a cause you devote your time to, how would you feel about people telling you that unless you are trying to cure all cancers they think you are insincere and just cherry picking a cause? Why just breast cancer? Aren't other cancers just as important? What makes breast cancer so special?

The difference is that separating cancer into different types help you study and cure it. Separating people into different colors is just what we're trying to stop doing.

 

[sunshinehighway]

The difference is that separating cancer into different types help you study and cure it. Separating people into different colors is just what we're trying to stop doing.

No sorry. That doesn't make sense in the ongoing dialog my post was part of.
I'm not being snarky but seriously it doesn't.
We were discussing why it does or doesn't make sense to use the argument that if BLM doesn't address black on black crime then they are insincere.
I wasnt talking about separating people. I was talking about separating causes so groups can have focus.

 

[JimMIA]

I somewhat agree with what your saying, But if I said statistically white people are more racist, would you agree because there is a trend in this country of white people displaying racism towards minorities way more than any other race in this country.

If you said statistically that any race was more racist than any other race, I would want to see your actual statistics -- not "It's been said that..." -- actual statistics. Mere references that someone has complained about anything does not mean that thing is true.

So if this comment is actually serious (which I doubt), please provide those statistics.

 

[PollyannaMom]

No sorry. That doesn't make sense in the ongoing dialog my post was part of.
I'm not being snarky but seriously it doesn't.
We were discussing why it does or doesn't make sense to use the argument that if BLM doesn't address black on black crime then they are insincere.
I want talking about separating people. I was talking about separating causes so groups can have focus.

Sorry, there were several mini-discussions going on at once at that point, and I took your quote as belonging to the one about the name of the movement. (Other people had mentioned the charity comparison as well.)

I do think there are multiple problems we need to solve, I just don't think this name was necessarily the best choice for any of them.