"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[cabanafrau]

He can ask for ID - and you need to identify yourself. You don't need to produce your license unless he is detaining you. A passenger not producing a driver's license isn't a reason to detain. If he demands it and makes up some BS "reasonable suspicion" of a crime he suspects you of in order to officially detain you, then you got a pretty dirty cop on your hands and I'd certainly comply. But I'd get all his details and report him later.

You say it's absurd that he'd run it for warrants, but they frequently do. What other reason would he have to demand a driver's license from someone that isn't driving?

And it's really not that "gray". The Supreme Court has ruled on it numerous times. There are subtle differences by state, but we aren't to the point where a government official can stop us without cause and demand to see our official government issued papers.

I agree, it would be a dirty cop, 100 percent. What I was calling absurd is the fact that the officer would tell the person they wanted to run it for warrants, which is what you said. Would he run it for warrants if given the opportunity? I'd say for sure.

As far as the gray area I referred to, it was in reference to an officer making the case why they asked for ID.

 

[Disn3yVision]

After following this thread for they last few days one thing is clear to me... The only people not listening are the people that don't want to hear. I pray that eventually, you can open your heart and minds so that one day you can in turn open your ears and actually HEAR. Until then we will continue to scream for equality and justice in hopes that some day you will indeed listen with an open heart and mind.

 

[JimMIA]

You say it's absurd that he'd run it for warrants, but they frequently do. What other reason would he have to demand a driver's license from someone that isn't driving?

To check criminal history, if any. If the officer has a group of people stopped, they will want to know who they're dealing with.

 

[Bluestars]

...and here is my point, and before anyone gets it twisted, I do NOT advocate violence in any way, but can't people see why people are frustrated and angry? I am not saying any violent or destructive methods are in any way acceptable or effective, but just using this thread as an example, can't people see why others have the feelings they do?

Various people on this thread from different ethnicities, minority, or not, from all over the continent, from different socioeconomic groups have given examples of mistreatment by law enforcement. They have been met with people telling them that, at worst, they are outright lying, at best they are exaggerating.

Can't we see why people are so frustrated and angry. People of color all over this nation are saying, "This is happening, this is unfair. We want to be treated fairly," and they are being disregarded.

In the situation near my city, people are frustrated because protesters blocked a bridge on a main freeway. It delayed several ambulances getting people to the hospital. It made people who wanted to get home to see their families have to sit on the freeway for hours. It would have been better for them to protest downtown, not on a major freeway where access to the city is from a bridge.
Thankfully, the law enforcement in our city was awesome and handled it very well. There was a meeting with the protesters today. Nobody got hurt, so that's a good thing.

Anyway, protest if you want, just don't block major streets, intimidate people, jump on 18 wheelers, surround police cars, and do things that are aggressive. The police loaded up two busloads of officers in tactical gear to be ready in case the protesters kept refusing to get off of the bridge or became violent. There are productive ways to protest and then there are ways that build resentment and those ways are divisive.

The major city near where I live has a lot of work to do to cut down on the homicides and high crime. It needs to start with more programs for the families to help the kids. That's the issue. Boys grow up without fathers. They join gangs and commit crimes. It's very sad because no child should have to grow up in the living conditions that these children are faced with. The educational system in those areas is among the worst in the country. The city needs programs for parents and for the youth.

 

[Planogirl]

In the situation near my city, people are frustrated because protesters blocked a bridge on a main freeway. It delayed several ambulances getting people to the hospital. It made people who wanted to get home to see their families have to sit on the freeway for hours. It would have been better for them to protest downtown, not on a major freeway where access to the city is from a bridge.
Thankfully, the law enforcement in our city was awesome and handled it very well. There was a meeting with the protesters today. Nobody got hurt, so that's a good thing.

Anyway, protest if you want, just don't block major streets, intimidate people, jump on 18 wheelers, surround police cars, and do things that are aggressive. The police loaded up two busloads of officers in tactical gear to be ready in case the protesters kept refusing to get off of the bridge or became violent. There are productive ways to protest and then there are ways that build resentment and those ways are divisive.

I wasn't going to post here again but this type of activity puzzles me. BLM blocked a major freeway close to downtown Dallas today and they tried to go into a mall to have a sit-in just a few days ago. Why are they harassing a city that is still raw from 5 police officers being murdered just a week ago? Is there any point to this?

 

[CPanther95]

To check criminal history, if any. If the officer has a group of people stopped, they will want to know who they're dealing with.

Exactly.

If they have a reasonable suspicion that you've committed a crime, they can check your criminal history. If they don't, there's no need for them to check.

 

[JimMIA]

I wasn't going to post here again but this type of activity puzzles me. BLM blocked a major freeway close to downtown Dallas today and they tried to go into a mall to have a sit-in just a few days ago. Why are they harassing a city that is still raw from 5 police officers being murdered just a week ago? Is there any point to this?

They do a lot of counter-productive things. That's why they don't actually accomplish anything. They're all about the activity of protesting -- not the results. Results are hard.

 

[pat fan]

Is there any point to this?

Nope. But this is why people have a hard time listening to BLM and taking them seriously.

@Disn3yVision people don't have closed minds and hearts, but it's this stuff that, as I said, makes BLM a negative to a legitimate problem.

 

[Colleen27]

Again, as a nearby resident who knows many people who live and/or lived in Ferguson, I don't buy this narrative. Nobody in St Louis does. Not disputing any of the ways it's been noted that the Ferguson PD conducted business. But, this "us vs them" mentality just really wasn't the case. There are & always have been many neighborhoods in STL where the police & citizens are viewed as foes (ironically, some are better neighborhoods than Ferguson. Some are worse neighborhoods, but better police departments). Ferguson just wasn't one of them. And the fact that so many of the arrested rioters weren't Ferguson residents just goes to show Ferguson wasn't this "powder keg" that many outsiders believe it to have been.

So you're saying the black community there was okay with being 60-some percent of the population but 90+% of traffic stops, arrests, etc.? The justice dept report was very, very clear on the racial disparities in policing there, but somehow that doesn't effect the way residents of Ferguson and neighboring areas feel about the police?

And that is exactly the kind of profiling I was talking about. Not just based on race. But when I said gang bangers, you and a couple of others instantly took that to mean "black". Seems that even in a discussion words and meanings can be misunderstood. The instantaneous thought is that it must be racism when that is not the case. We all should be more careful about understanding what someone else is saying.

Profiling, in the predictive sense, is usually defined as the use of crime patterns and statistics to identify and target for scrutiny/preventative policing those who are demographically more likely to be involved in criminal activity. It is, IMO, racism by another name - "I'm not racist, but statistics indicate that young black men are more likely to be criminals so I stop them more".

There are VERY few warrantless searches of vehicles anyway, and the bar is set very high. It has to be a situation where you have sufficient probable cause for a warrant, but there is some kind of urgency which precludes waiting for a judge. Usually, it's something like a kid or dog locked in a car, not some loser with drugs in their trunk.

If an officer tricks a suspect into giving consent for a search, that's legal but the search would certainly be attacked in court and the evidence could very well be suppressed. For that matter, even a search with a warrant will usually be attacked in court, sometimes successfully.

This is absolutely not the case in my area. I've been stopped and had my vehicle searched more than once, in my younger years, and that was not an uncommon experience among my friends. It quite literally never occurred to any of us that we could refuse, particularly when police lie/threaten to get consent ("We can search the car now, or we can impound it and search it later... And you'll have to pay to get it back."). Tactics like that can't help but foster an adversarial relationship between police and the communities they patrol.

And sure, the search might be challenged in court... if the defendant has the resources to hire a competent lawyer and takes the case to court. But since most poor and minority defendants are poorly or unrepresented and take high-pressure plea deals because they don't know any better, whether the initial search was valid or not is really immaterial.

 

[Bluestars]

What really grinds my gears about this whole thread is ...ok so the black lives matter movement is wrong what is the alternative?..what is the solution? what is your suggestion on how to make it better? What would you like to see done differently? Other than trying to find a solution to a problem what really is the point of this thread

Can't there be a truly peaceful movement? Didn't Martin Luther King lead a peaceful movement? That's what we need. Nobody needs to hate a group of people in order to make a situation better for themselves. People need to come together. We actually need people in leadership roles who are truly not biased and want what is best for all people, whether black, white, hispanic, gay, straight, or whatever. All people.

 

[Bluestars]

I wasn't going to post here again but this type of activity puzzles me. BLM blocked a major freeway close to downtown Dallas today and they tried to go into a mall to have a sit-in just a few days ago. Why are they harassing a city that is still raw from 5 police officers being murdered just a week ago? Is there any point to this?

I feel so sorry for the people of Dallas. They didn't deserve this and it's too bad they can't be left alone to grieve.

 

[NHdisneylover]

People do realize that many of the marches and sit ins that King was a part of and even organized (or helped organize) did things like block roads (because of hte numbers of marhers on them) or in other ways inconveienced people (and, yes, I suppose you can stretch to say blockign roads endangers people trying to get to hospitals--but there are often blocekd roads for construciton or due to wrecks, etc ambulances do know how to deal with this stuff--and cities the size of Dallas have multiple hospitals, etc)

Peaceful protest often does inconviences those who would likely otherwise ignore the protest, no matter how large. I don't undersatnd villifying that (now encouraging violence and intimidation is another matter and nto acceptable--though I am still not sure that the BLM leaders are saying htat hsould be done The PP who keeps claiming that refuses to post links, only telling people to google themselves, and the webpage for the group cettianly does not endorse such tactics and in fact keeps talking baout fostering love, etc

 

[perkinsrose]

BLM did not kill officers in Dallas. Likely the gunman was mentally ill and had access to guns.

Here is another perspective:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...tics-made-dallas-shooting-inevitable-20160711

 

[Bluestars]

People do realize that many of the marches and sit ins that King was a part of and even organized (or helped organize) did things like block roads (because of hte numbers of marhers on them) or in other ways inconveienced people (and, yes, I suppose you can stretch to say blockign roads endangers people trying to get to hospitals--but there are often blocekd roads for construciton or due to wrecks, etc ambulances do know how to deal with this stuff--and cities the size of Dallas have multiple hospitals, etc)

Peaceful protest often does inconviences those who would likely otherwise ignore the protest, no matter how large. I don't undersatnd villifying that (now encouraging violence and intimidation is another matter and nto acceptable--though I am still not sure that the BLM leaders are saying htat hsould be done The PP who keeps claiming that refuses to post links, only telling people to google themselves, and the webpage for the group cettianly does not endorse such tactics and in fact keeps talking baout fostering love, etc

No, it was before my time. I don't support blocking roads or doing anything illegal, but I have read some things Martin Luther King said and think that somebody like him might be a good start. The protesters who blocked the bridge and freeway near where I live delayed ambulances getting people to the hospital. That's not cool. Maybe the protests in those days weren't peaceful, but we sure could use some peaceful ones now that would inspire people not divide people.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I am a middle class white male living in an area that is about 98% white. I have no idea what it's like to be an urban black youth. But I can give one example of a story told to me by my white son:

My son and some of his friends were walking around a nearby "outside mall". A woman had complained to a police officer that somebody stole her phone. The police officer stopped and talked to only one of my son's friends: the African-American teen that was walking with them. None of these kids were doing anything wrong, and the boy in question didn't have the phone.

I worked at old navy in high school. We had a meeting because there has been a shoplifter caught the night before. The manager was telling us to be cautious, mindful and pay attention "because this isn't who you would take as a shoplifter. He was an all American boy who you never suspect."

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I don't think any white guy that has spent any fair amount of time with a variety of different black guys doubts that there are inequities - or that "Driving While Black" is a real thing. We used to joke that "Black guys can drive at night, but during the day, you better have a white driver if there is a practice or team meeting scheduled" - and it wasn't really a joke because we actually tried to live by that if at all possible. I did a lot a daytime driving.

The only experience I have directly was when I was pulled over with 3 black passengers. I wasn't pulled over a ton as a teen - especially with passengers in the car - so at the time I didn't realize how out of the ordinary this was, but the police officer asked for driver's licenses from everyone in the car. That's the only time in my almost 35 years of driving where passengers were asked for ID. Today, I'd never turn over my driver's license if I was a passenger - but I know these guys would do so even if they felt it wasn't required because they'd feel it isn't worth the hassle - or danger - that it might cause.

One of my best friends is white and when we go out she almost always drives because we are less likely to get pulled over. Yes we established this years ago. And in 10 years of going out on the town with her the only time we were pulled over was 3 years ago on a rare night that I drove. I honestly believe it was just a coincidence. I don't think he profiled us.

 

[katmu]

I have lived within 3/4 of a mile of the St. Anthony, MN police department for the last 21 years. St. Anthony is the police department that patrols St. Anthony, Lauderdale and Falcon Heights where Philando Castile was shot. I am a middle aged white woman with 2 now grown children who attended schools in the area but in all of the years I've lived in the area I have never been pulled over by the St. Anthony police. Not once.

I have seen a couple of yard signs in the area that say "We Hear You. We Understand You. We Support You."

There was the one protest on 94 that turned violent that may have made national news but I wish that more people in other parts of the country were aware of the two shown in the photographs I've linked below that were peaceful. Some adults could learn something from the kids who attend the school where Mr. Castile had worked.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/07/10/march-protests-philando-castile

 

[Gumbo4x4]

So you're saying the black community there was okay with being 60-some percent of the population but 90+% of traffic stops, arrests, etc.? The justice dept report was very, very clear on the racial disparities in policing there, but somehow that doesn't effect the way residents of Ferguson and neighboring areas feel about the police?

I don't know if it was so much that they were "okay" with it as they were "accepting" of the situation. It was one of those "it is what it is" kind of situations and it's all they ever knew. And though people of color were targeted more frequently, they weren't targeted EXCLUSIVELY. And in reality, a 65-70% residential rate vs a 90% arrest rate, while not directly proportional isn't all THAT far out of whack. Probably not enough to be a known entity without the raw data in front of you.

Moreover, this wasn't truly a poor area, nor a high crime area. These were working class people; educated people. It's the 'burbs, not the hood. And most of the trouble was initiated by non-Ferguson residents.

 

[Jdbsfw]

BLM did not kill officers in Dallas. Likely the gunman was mentally ill and had access to guns.

Here is another perspective:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...tics-made-dallas-shooting-inevitable-20160711

I've made it known that I'm disgusted that Tamir Rice likely won't get the justice he deserves, that said Rolling Stone is an absolute piece of garbage rag written by political hacks with ZERO credibility.....When one of your political allies goes crazy and shoots up the place you DONT get to deflect and blame the the opposing political party.

 

[NHdisneylover]

MLK protest were peaceful (on his side of things)--peaceful does not mean not bothering anyone at all in any way--really no one pays attention if no one is bothered. Sad but apparently true

(and they were before my time too, but I have seen photos and learned baout them in history class--didn't you?)

ETA--quote did not come through, I am responding to Bluestars