Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[dvcsince93]

The rules that control DVC as set forth in the contracts are not like the rules of football or basketball or traffic laws. They are not always clear bright line rules. Which is why asking CMs about these issues isn't dispositive. The CMs can say something one day and the next day, the powers that be can change their minds. Only after DVC decides what conduct they disapprove of, do they have to tell us.

Instead of firm rules, contracts basically lay out the rights and responsibilities of DVC and the members in a way that gives them guideposts and the flexibility to control the conduct of the members- as long as it doesn't break the law.

For example, the contracts say changes are permitted. But they don't say, unlimited changes are permitted because that rule would pin them down and if they later decide some changes need to be stopped, it will be easier to do down the road.

When the contract was written, I doubt anyone thought about walking or even knew what walking was. Instead, they write the contract to try and make sure that actions which vary to far outside the scope of the norm they desired could be stopped. That is also why the definition of commercial is wishy-washy, they don't want to pin themselves down legally to one standard, they prefer the "I know it when I see it" approach.

 

[Sandisw]

The rules that control DVC as set forth in the contracts are not like the rules of football or basketball or traffic laws. They are not always clear bright line rules. Which is why asking CMs about these issues isn't dispositive. The CMs can say something one day and the next day, the powers that be can change their minds. Only after DVC decides what conduct they disapprove of, do they have to tell us.

Instead of firm rules, contracts basically lay out the rights and responsibilities of DVC and the members in a way that gives them guideposts and the flexibility to control the conduct of the members- as long as it doesn't break the law.

For example, the contracts say changes are permitted. But they don't say, unlimited changes are permitted because that rule would pin them down and if they later decide some changes need to be stopped, it will be easier to do down the road.

When the contract was written, I doubt anyone thought about walking or even knew what walking was. Instead, they write the contract to try and make sure that actions which vary to far outside the scope of the norm they desired could be stopped. That is also why the definition of commercial is wishy-washy, they don't want to pin themselves down legally to one standard, they prefer the "I know it when I see it" approach.

The board admitted that when they made the change to booking from check in this practice is an unintended consequence of that. And why they are open to discussing changes to the rules but need to consider the impact of any change on the program as a whole.

DVC is pretty cautious about what they put in writing…but when they do, IMO, it carries some weight.

ETA: To clarify, my conclusion that we currently have no limitation to modifying a trip and canceling days at the front is based on the terms of the DVC Membership Agreement that states the Home Resort Rules must include the procedure and limitations for it. And they currently did not include such limitation in the rules.

That is the “in writing” I am referring to above..not just the responses I have from them.

 

[lowlight]

We have been through this back and forth endless times in endless threads. Those that walk, or support walking, do not believe they are doing anything wrong, or frankly don’t care that they are doing anything wrong.

Personally, I promised myself I would not do this again after last year. The walking has already started weeks ago for every, and I mean EVERY single standard room category for VGF and RR. If it follows last year, it will walk to week 48 of 2025, the week after Thanksgiving.

There is no talking about solutions. The contract is clear. DVC has admitted unintended consequences are happening, which is clearly “violations of the first come first serve booking at 11 months prior to desired check in date”. DVC doesn’t just get to hand wave this away- a contract is a two way street. Management has an obligation, under the contract, to protect members use of their points. They have failed to do so in regards to both the commercial renting and walking of reservations aspect. I am not able to use my membership as laid out in the contract I signed, not due to circumstances within my control, but rather because they have allowed a loophole to be abused to the detriment of their membership at large.

Can someone who is familiar with contracts tell me what remedies are available in a situation where I was sold a membership under false pretenses and am unable to use it as laid out in the contract?

 

[SeanW]

I'm sure this has been mentioned before in this thread, but this seems like a fairly simple issue to solve by only allowing X number of revisions to the reservation. I don't see why anyone would need to modify a reservation date more than 4 times between a booking window and the stay. It would give people more than enough opportunity to make changes based on flight availability and prices, and changes with DVC special events that are announced after a stay is booked. The commercial renting seems like the harder issue to solve though.

 

[zavandor]

I have been a member using both booking methods.

It’s truly not about what I liked better, but rather which method was fair.

Not really, have you read the thread at all?
It's about finding a solution to walking that is also practical and that would not impact members.
Booking by checkout day is a cure worst than the illness. But it's pointless trying to explain this to you, because you're not really interested in the conversation, you're just trolling.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Not really, have you read the thread at all?
It's about finding a solution to walking that is also practical and that would not impact members.
Booking by checkout day is a cure worst than the illness. But it's pointless trying to explain this to you, because you're not really interested in the conversation, you're just trolling.

Okay. I’m intimately familiar with both methods, have pointed out the pluses and minuses of both, admitted that it’s about what’s fair, not what I like, plus have been posting throughout the thread.

Then you accuse me of not reading the thread and trolling.

 

[zavandor]

Okay. I’m intimately familiar with both methods, have pointed out the pluses and minuses of both, admitted that it’s about what’s fair, not what I like, plus have been posting throughout the thread.

Then you accuse me of not reading the thread and trolling.

What do you think would happen with booking by checkout day? With the online system, do you think people would wait until they can book the whole reservation or do you think most people would book day by day?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

What do you think would happen with booking by checkout day? With the online system, do you think people would wait until they can book the whole reservation or do you think most people would book day by day?

No, I think most would not book day by day… as I have stated numerous times in this thread. Only hard to get ressies.
Seeing as though that was the method of booking for many years, there is a basis of which to go on.

The main problem was at the time there was not online booking, so we had to call MS. When even a small number of folks booked day by day, MS could indeed get overwhelmed. Now with online booking, that may play out a bit different.

 

[zavandor]

No, I think most would not book day by day… as I have stated numerous times in this thread. Only hard to get ressies.
Seeing as though that was the method of booking for many years, there is a basis of which to go on.

The main problem was at the time there was not online booking, so we had to call MS. When even a small number of folks booked day by day, MS could indeed get overwhelmed. Now with online booking, that may play out a bit different.

So you're saying that even when it was difficult to do many people did it and conclude that while the online system would make it easier to do, it wouldn't really be a problem because not many people would do it.
That's why I say you're trolling. You're not really interested in contributing to the conversation, you just want to make a point.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

So you're saying that even when it was difficult to do many people did it and conclude that while the online system would make it easier to do, it wouldn't really be a problem because not many people would do it.
That's why I say you're trolling. You're not really interested in contributing to the conversation, you just want to make a point.

I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying.

Yes, folks may book day by day for the hard to get reservations.

How is that trolling? Do you know what trolling is?
It is not someone posting who defends a difference of opinion.

 

[zavandor]

Yes, folks may book day by day for the hard to get reservations.

Remove may. People will book day by day, which will cause more problems than walking.
We get it, booking by checkout day is fair for everyone. As is a lottery, as is not allowing modifications at all, or a modification fee or every other rule that applies to everyone. it's not that special in that regard.
In this thread we are trying to evaluate possible impact to owners of any possible change and booking by checkout day would be a nightmare for everyone for hard to get rooms. It would replace one aberration with another. It's a solution to walking, but it's not a good solution.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Remove may. People will book day by day, which will cause more problems than walking.
We get it, booking by checkout day is fair for everyone. As is a lottery, as is not allowing modifications at all, or a modification fee or every other rule that applies to everyone. it's not that special in that regard.
In this thread we are trying to evaluate possible impact to owners of any possible change and booking by checkout day would be a nightmare for everyone for hard to get rooms. It would replace one aberration with another. It's a solution to walking, but it's not a good solution.

Yep… for sure many may not like it, but it’s a possible solution. Most don’t like any suggested solution here, but that’s why it’s a discussion.
You don’t like one possible solution so you try to shut it down by saying folks are trolls.

Keep in mind that booking backwards from checkout day was not initiated by me or this board.

 

[zavandor]

Yep… for sure many may not like it, but it’s a possible solution. Most don’t like any suggested solution here, but that’s why it’s a discussion.
You don’t like one possible solution so you try to shut it down by saying folks are trolls.

Keep in mind that booking backwards from checkout day was not initiated by me or this board.

Who else thinks that booking by checkout day is a good solution?
And what do you think would be the consequences of introducing it in a time when booking by checkout day would make booking day by day very easy?

 

[Wedgeout]

Haha challenge accepted. This isn’t the 1990’s society anymore. It’s cut throat. Bet the same or many more then currently walk the system will day to day it. Since it’s kind of a backwards idea, we will call it the “moonwalk”. It failed once already. Nowadays we are competitors. More DVC resorts..more members…more points in the club. Just look at Moonlight Magic. Some run 20 internet connections at once to get in.

 

[AstroBlasters]

We have been through this back and forth endless times in endless threads. Those that walk, or support walking, do not believe they are doing anything wrong, or frankly don’t care that they are doing anything wrong.

Personally, I promised myself I would not do this again after last year. The walking has already started weeks ago for every, and I mean EVERY single standard room category for VGF and RR. If it follows last year, it will walk to week 48 of 2025, the week after Thanksgiving.

There is no talking about solutions. The contract is clear. DVC has admitted unintended consequences are happening, which is clearly “violations of the first come first serve booking at 11 months prior to desired check in date”. DVC doesn’t just get to hand wave this away- a contract is a two way street. Management has an obligation, under the contract, to protect members use of their points. They have failed to do so in regards to both the commercial renting and walking of reservations aspect. I am not able to use my membership as laid out in the contract I signed, not due to circumstances within my control, but rather because they have allowed a loophole to be abused to the detriment of their membership at large.

Can someone who is familiar with contracts tell me what remedies are available in a situation where I was sold a membership under false pretenses and am unable to use it as laid out in the contract?

Are there other accommodations besides the standard view types available?

I’m looking at VGF availability in Nov 2025 and it looks pretty darn open to me. Yes, the 19th may be booked off in some places…. but all of the days behind them are open.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I'm sure this has been mentioned before in this thread, but this seems like a fairly simple issue to solve by only allowing X number of revisions to the reservation. I don't see why anyone would need to modify a reservation date more than 4 times between a booking window and the stay. It would give people more than enough opportunity to make changes based on flight availability and prices, and changes with DVC special events that are announced after a stay is booked. The commercial renting seems like the harder issue to solve though.

Or…. it’s not that big of a problem and they don’t need to restrict the whole system year round because a few people are upset they can’t book the lower cost room categories during the high demand season…..

 

[AstroBlasters]

Who else thinks that booking by checkout day is a good solution?
And what do you think would be the consequences of introducing it in a time when booking by checkout day would make booking day by day very easy?

It’s interesting reading a one way conversation with an Ignored poster….

 

[ShaneDJ]

It’s interesting reading a one way conversation with an Ignored poster….

Why did you ignore @Maistre Gracey ?

Not saying it’s not justified.

But just wondering why?

 

[AstroBlasters]

Why did you ignore @Maistre Gracey ?

Not saying it’s not justified.

But just wondering why?

No idea about the specifics.

I’m sure many people have me on Ignore. My 15 year old would if he could.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Can I curse here? Cause holy ****, I didn’t look at this thread for 2 days and you guys have added more than 35 pages I’m gonna take a wild guess that we haven’t found a solution yet…not sure if I have it in me to read through and find out tbh

ETA: evidently, you can’t curse, good to know