Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[Tatebeck]

***Waiting on Disney's official written response, if they give one, before trying to interpret more rules lol.***


But in the meantime I guess I'll leave the canned response I got from chat that I saved until they do respond. But so far, if you fully phrase the question, it seems they are much more hesitant to confirm the ability to do what people are saying is totally within the rules and that "we can just ask them to do it."

Me:
"Let's say I wanted a trip with a check in date 12 months away, is it allowed to book a room today and then modify that reservation until it is within 11 months? Or do I have to wait until it is exactly 11 months away? Sorry for the long question, I just want to make sure I am only booking things according to the rules."


Redacted Name:
"If you wish book a reservation at a Home Resort, it can be booked 11 months before the check in date. This is all the information I have and can provide."

 

[tx911]

Walk FOR your life! Your family’s happiness depends on getting that 2BR standard view a certain week in Season 2 every. single. trip.

Happy spouse, happy house

 

[tx911]

"If you wish book a reservation at a Home Resort, it can be booked 11 months before the check in date. This is all the information I have and can provide."

That's crystal to me.

 

[muppets3d]

That means is that it's easier to make the club rooms more expensive without much impact on points for other room types.

If club rooms were more expensive then I suspect (i) any rentals (and underlying reservations) you see for those types of rooms would go away, and (ii) they would become a "one and done" experience for many owners, allowing other owners get their shot too.

I find the delta between savanna and club too low to deter people, including myself, from trying for that "upgrade" (even with the 40% chance of getting the pool view). If the club level cost as much as a standard view 1BR, I'd probably think twice about it and go for the 1BR at Kidani with the 2 bathrooms and 5-person capacity (or just get the cheaper studio and splurge on dining at Boma and Jiko)

Oh I see what you're saying. They can take 1 point per night off the standard view studios for one season maybe, and add that bundle of points to club level through the year. It might end up being an extra 5 points per night for the entire year. Someone who is good at math could calculate that. Yeah that makes sense.

 

[Tatebeck]

That's crystal to me.

Hmm I see

 

[Tatebeck]

That's crystal to me.

Actually, here. It's coming through a little clearer now

 

[tx911]

Actually, here. It's coming through a little clearer now
View attachment 922297

Let's see what Madame Leota has to say...

 

[Tatebeck]

Let's see what Madame Leota has to say...

Serpents and spiders, tail of a rat; show us the rules, wherever they're at.

Rap on a table; it's time to respond. Send us clearer rules from somewhere beyond.

Goblins and ghoulies from last Halloween: are walkers the worst, that you've ever seen?

Creepies and crawlies, toads in a pond; should I buy membership magic beyond?

Wizards and witches, wherever you dwell, do those that walk, have a weird smell?

 

[tx911]

Serpents and spiders, tail of a rat; show us the rules, wherever they're at.

Rap on a table; it's time to respond. Send us clearer rules from somewhere beyond.

Goblins and ghoulies from last Halloween: are walkers the worst, that you've ever seen?

Creepies and crawlies, toads in a pond; should I buy membership magic beyond?

Wizards and witches, wherever you dwell, do those that walk, have a weird smell?

Is this 11 month window actually stretching? (No, just being walked)

 

[Genie+]

Serpents and spiders, tail of a rat; show us the rules, wherever they're at.

Rap on a table; it's time to respond. Send us clearer rules from somewhere beyond.

Goblins and ghoulies from last Halloween: are walkers the worst, that you've ever seen?

Creepies and crawlies, toads in a pond; should I buy membership magic beyond?

Wizards and witches, wherever you dwell, do those that walk, have a weird smell?

The answers are yes yes and yes!

 

[Wedgeout]

Will anyone feel your sympathetic vibrations for booking modification changes to materialize.

 

[Tatebeck]

Is this 11 month window actually stretching? (No, just being walked)

You can always take... My way out! (Buys another contract), maybe a fixed week?

 

[dvcsince93]

And the terms and conditions allow you to make changes to your reservation without penalty outside of 31 days. And yes, that is writing from DVC.

So, there is no violation of the rules. That is why I keep saying it…someone’s reason for booking is not a requirement or in any of the terms and conditions. Obviously once you are in the room, you can’t do certainly things like run a business out of it, etc.

DVC has confirmed to me that we are indeed allowed to book and change a trip an unlimited number of times per the current rules.

But, you are correct, I should have been clearer that my comments are only related to the context of the booking reservations.

Yes, if you violate rules of the contract, the contract states the remedies in place.

Thank you for pointing it out.

I'm not sure who is giving you legal advice on the contracts that form DVC, but the legal information you are offering is not correct.

For example, the POS states:

Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any purpose other than the personal use described herein is expressly prohibited

I have seen numerous posts that DVC doesn't know and can't determine intent of the member. Legally, that is simply not true. DVC does not have to read your mind. Intent is a common factor in contracts and can be shown in a variety of ways. Here, DVC could look at a pattern of conduct. if you walked the reservation there will be a whole series of reservations that overlap by one or more days. Moreover, unless its the first time you have done it, they will have all evidence of all of the reservations that were walked. That evidence would be sufficient to show you had no intent of using the first reservation and violated the T&C. Keep in mind that it is DVC that is making this determination, not a court. In fact, remember that you have given up your right to sue them in court under the contract-it would go to arbitration.

Also, the mere fact that the POS permits changes does not mean that DVC must allow unlimited changes. As far as I can see, the contract does not say that and even if it did, they could conclude that the changes you made conflicted with other provisions of the contracts.

One last thing, if they decide that the contracts aren't sufficient for what they want to do, they have unlimited power to change them:

7.5 Amendment. BVTC in its discretion may change the terms and conditions of this Disclosure Document and the rules and regulations set forth in this Disclosure Document. These changes may affect a Club Member's right to use, exchange, or rent the Club Member's Ownership Interest and may impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of his or her Ownership Interest and the appurtenant Club Membership. Such changes may be made by BVTC without the consent of any Club Member and may adversely affect a Club Member's rights and benefits and increase the Club Member's costs of ownership. Further, such changes under some circumstances may not be to the advantage of some Club Members and could impact their ability to secure reservations when and where they want them. Club Members will be notified of any such changes through Club publications or a Club website. Current publications supersede prior publications with respect to the terms and conditions of this Disclosure Document.

 

[tx911]

You can always take... My way out! (Buys another contract), maybe a fixed week?

Fixed week at Saratoga. It’s the only way.

 

[Tatebeck]

Fixed week at Saratoga. It’s the only way.

I think I just saw another tombstone appear outside of the haunted mansion

Here lies a poor fool, that had a Saratoga Fixed Week
"The best purchase ever, Just you wait and see!"

 

[dvcsince93]

When you are trying to decide what DVC can and can't do,remember, DVC is a legal entity whose actions are controlled by their governing contracts and so the question is not "is there a rule" but do the contracts establishing the DVC, in their entirety, support DVC concluding that an action, such as walking a reservation, is a violation of the terms and conditions of your membership, and if so, what can they do about it. It doesn't roll off the tongue in the same way but its the correct question.

Lawyers aren't psychic and so contracts are written broadly to try and protect the company from situations that they are not aware today but which may be an issue down the road, like walking your reservations.

 

[tx911]

I think I just saw another tombstone appear outside of the haunted mansion

Here lies a poor fool, that had a Saratoga Fixed Week
"The best purchase ever, Just you wait and see!"

Here lies the buyer of a fixed Saratoga week.
His solution to walkers was rather unique.
In the end, the multi stop bus route was his doom.
But he never had a problem booking a room.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm not sure who is giving you legal advice on the contracts that form DVC, but the legal information you are offering is not correct.

For example, the POS states:

Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any purpose other than the personal use described herein is expressly prohibited

I have seen numerous posts that DVC doesn't know and can't determine intent of the member. Legally, that is simply not true. DVC does not have to read your mind. Intent is a common factor in contracts and can be shown in a variety of ways. Here, DVC could look at a pattern of conduct. if you walked the reservation there will be a whole series of reservations that overlap by one or more days. Moreover, unless its the first time you have done it, they will have all evidence of all of the reservations that were walked. That evidence would be sufficient to show you had no intent of using the first reservation and violated the T&C. Keep in mind that it is DVC that is making this determination, not a court. In fact, remember that you have given up your right to sue them in court under the contract-it would go to arbitration.

Also, the mere fact that the POS permits changes does not mean that DVC must allow unlimited changes. As far as I can see, the contract does not say that and even if it did, they could conclude that the changes you made conflicted with other provisions of the contracts.

One last thing, if they decide that the contracts aren't sufficient for what they want to do, they have unlimited power to change them:

7.5 Amendment. BVTC in its discretion may change the terms and conditions of this Disclosure Document and the rules and regulations set forth in this Disclosure Document. These changes may affect a Club Member's right to use, exchange, or rent the Club Member's Ownership Interest and may impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of his or her Ownership Interest and the appurtenant Club Membership. Such changes may be made by BVTC without the consent of any Club Member and may adversely affect a Club Member's rights and benefits and increase the Club Member's costs of ownership. Further, such changes under some circumstances may not be to the advantage of some Club Members and could impact their ability to secure reservations when and where they want them. Club Members will be notified of any such changes through Club publications or a Club website. Current publications supersede prior publications with respect to the terms and conditions of this Disclosure Document.

I guess I am not sure what you are talking about now….the topic is can DVC stop an owner from booking a room and then modifying it to a new date given the terms and conditions of the home resort rules today.

The rules, currently , per DVC, are that you can do this…the written rules do not prevent an owner from changing dates.

I have posted that they can change the rules if they want and say that we can’t have unlimited medications, but the rules currently do not prohibit it.

The response was to the idea that DVC could cancel your room because you moved it and I stated, that DVC can’t stop me from booking a room for any reason I want…but admitted I should have added as long as it’s personal use.

DVC can absolutely change the rules but we have been discussing whether the current rules prohibit someone from walking…and they do not state anything that is is prohibited.

I have talked at great length with DVC about this and right now, as written, there is no penalty to me as an owner if I modify a reservation as much as I want and there is currently no restriction to when I can start those modifications.

Everything that I have posted is actually backed up by your highlighted points….DVC makes and enforces the rules and right now, the rules are you can book and modify as much as you want. It also state that those changes will be delivered to owners…which is another point I made….they have to at least tell you what you violated….or t what the rules are.

They can absolutely make rules as they see fit…

But, I will make sure that my statement are clear where the information is coming from….DVC and not just random CMs.

 

[Tatebeck]

I guess I am not sure what you are talking about now….the topic is can DVC stop an owner from booking a room and then modifying it to a new date.

The rules, per DVC, are that you can do this…the written rules do not prevent an owner from booking and changing.

I have posted that they can change the rules if they want and say that we can’t have unlimited medications, but the rules currently do not prohibit it.

The response was to the idea that DVC could cancel your room because you moved it and I stated, that DVC can’t stop me from booking a room for any reason I want…but admitted I should have added as long as it’s personal use.

DVC can absolutely change the rules but we have been discussing whether the current rules prohibit someone from walking…and they do not.

And, I have talked at great length with DVC about this and right now, as written, there is no penalty to me as an owner if I modify a reservation as much as I want and there is currently no restriction to when I can do that.

Everything that I have posted is actually back up by your highlighted points….DVC makes and enforces the rules and right now, the rules are you can book and modify as much as you want.

But, I will keep my statements as opinion based on what I have been given by DV

I think they are saying that the reason you are booking actually does matter, specifically as determined by DVC. It cannot be commercial or anything outside of the personal uses they describe. If they perceive or determine that you may have booked or modified outside of their rules, they can indeed do something about it.

Some rules have been posted that DVC could possibly perceive as being broken in certain situations.

It's not just about modifications, it's also about the original booking made and about intentions. You keep getting different answers than I have, possibly because you aren't asking the same, or the full question.

Some questions cannot simply be answered by a yes or no. Sometimes, it depends.

 

[Sandisw]

I think they are saying that the reason you are booking actually does matter, specifically as determined by DVC. It cannot be commercial or anything outside of the personal uses they describe. If they perceive or determine that you may have booked or modified outside of their rules, they can indeed do something about it.

Some rules have been posted that DVC could possibly perceive as being broken in certain situations.

It's not just about modifications, it's also about the original booking made and about intentions. You keep getting different answers than I have, possibly because you aren't asking the same, or the full question.

Some questions cannot simply be answered by a yes or no. Sometimes, it depends.

I can add that I had conversations at the meetings last week with those there….and yes, the term walking was used.

I don’t think I have ever said that they can’t do anything if the say it’s a violation…but DVC own statements and their actions support that right now, rule changes are required in order to prevent it.

If you are getting different answers, I’d love to hear what part of the current rules they pointed to that prohibit it…true interest too…that’s not snarky..

Also, did you follow up as to why they don’t enforce it?