Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[declansdad]

Oh why did you post that?! Did you see this one?! Someone who respects their toddler's right to not have his hair washed. For months. How to convince him to WANT his hair washed?!

I had to stop reading, too scary

 

[Robinrs]

My education (or my husbands, more specifically) keeps coming up because it's relevant. When people are making idealistic claims about what a person with an education degree does and doesn't know, my husband's degree/input is relevant. When people ask me how I will know what my kids need to know to enter college, mine and my husband's education are relevant. When someone says that a high schooler should know x,y, and z and my husband holds 2 higher education degrees and doesn't know x, y, or z, that's relevant.

You say that my education has come up on other threads, but I'm quite sure I don't know what you're talking about. I sporadically post on the Dis once every few months and the only other time I can recall ever talking about education is the other day on a thread asking about Gifted and Talented classes. So...everyone was discussing their experiences with G&T and I shared mine...which was relevant to the discussion. I can't fathom where you're trying to go with that line of thought, but I do think it's a bit weird that you dug around to see what else I've been posting. In your own words, do you have nothing better to do with her afternoon than to stalk around on the dis?

And how, exactly, are you going to claim that I'm the one who turned this into a homeschooling thread?! Are you kidding me?! There are no less than a dozen people who've been engaged in a homeschooling discussion here and somehow that's my responsibility? I feel like I should be pretty impressed with myself.

Lastly, I'm most definitely not trying to convince anyone of anything regarding my kids and how I school them. If I was, I would certainly do something other than sit around and bicker. I'd show examples of their work, copies of my grade books, videos of their projects and reports. But I wouldn't do that, because I don't care whether or not anyone here finds my schooling to be up to par.

I've been mostly reading this thread and even though you don't see it your posts are mostly defensive. Understandable, considering you are pushing your agenda while standing on you and hubby's high horse , but remember so much defense will eventually bring offense.

Do you teach your kids Shakespeare? The lady doth protest too much, methinks applies here. If your premise is good for you than you don't have to prove and over prove yourself to a group of unnamed no face people on the internet. It has become nothing but static at this point.

Knowledge is nothing compared to wisdom. Your point would be more welcome if you showed yourself to be wise.

 

[cornflake]

I cut snippets from a website (cited anonymously to keep me out of trouble)

First amendment is freedom of ______

There are five clauses in the First. None of them are justification for homeschooling in general. Again, if someone wants to make the argument, I'm totally interested in their reasoning, but just claiming it is isn't helpful, as it's really not.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I've been mostly reading this thread and even though you don't see it your posts are mostly defensive. Understandable, considering you are pushing your agenda while standing on you and hubby's high horse , but remember so much defense will eventually bring offense.

Do you teach your kids Shakespeare? The lady doth protest too much, methinks applies here. If your premise is good for you than you don't have to prove and over prove yourself to a group of unnamed no face people on the internet. It has become nothing but static at this point.

Knowledge is nothing compared to wisdom. Your point would be more welcome if you showed yourself to be wise.

I can understand why she would be defensive.

Ultimately what happens is that someone posts about someone they know and then all the posters jump on about how this is why homeschooling should be regulated further or even banned.

Then someone came on with their grammar hat and tackled credibility and that people who are not educated shouldn't be teaching their own kids. That is when the credentials came out.

It would seem that if people were respectful all the way around, then a discussion could be have instead of the need to defend.

 

[cornflake]

I can understand why she would be defensive.

Ultimately what happens is that someone posts about someone they know and then all the posters jump on about how this is why homeschooling should be regulated further or even banned.

Then someone came on with their grammar hat and tackled credibility and that people who are not educated shouldn't be teaching their own kids. That is when the credentials came out.

It would seem that if people were respectful all the way around, then a discussion could be have instead of the need to defend.

I haven't really seen people being disrespectful in this thread.

I don't think disagreeing with someone or suggesting they're wrong or that what they believe isn't a universal truth - which seems to me what you're describing - is disrespectful either though.

 

[knitster]

I've been mostly reading this thread and even though you don't see it your posts are mostly defensive. Understandable, considering you are pushing your agenda while standing on you and hubby's high horse , but remember so much defense will eventually bring offense.

Do you teach your kids Shakespeare? The lady doth protest too much, methinks applies here. If your premise is good for you than you don't have to prove and over prove yourself to a group of unnamed no face people on the internet. It has become nothing but static at this point.

Knowledge is nothing compared to wisdom. Your point would be more welcome if you showed yourself to be wise.

You're right, I am quite defensive and have said so (and apologized for it) several times within the thread, so I don't know where you're getting that I can't see my defensiveness - I definitely can. That defensiveness, however, is not because I feel like I need to prove my merits as a Homeschooler. My defensiveness comes from the fact that homeschooling as a whole has been attacked repeatedly and the vast majority of those attackers disappear and/or ignore when a well thought out response is given to them. That leaves me feeling quite frustrate and, admittedly, defensive.

And you're quite mistaken if you think I'm on a high horse re: my education. I'd venture to say that most people in this thread have a higher level of formal education than I do. I only have my high school diploma and 2 years of college under my belt. As far as my husband's education goes, again, I only mention it when relevant to the conversation. If I had said, "my husband can't do x, y, z math problem" but left out the fact that he has a degree, I would've undoubtedly be met with a response of "well then your husband isn't well educated".

And the only "agenda" I'm "pushing" is freedom for parents to choose homeschooling without heavy handed state control.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

My education (or my husbands, more specifically) keeps coming up because it's relevant. When people are making idealistic claims about what a person with an education degree does and doesn't know, my husband's degree/input is relevant. When people ask me how I will know what my kids need to know to enter college, mine and my husband's education are relevant. When someone says that a high schooler should know x,y, and z and my husband holds 2 higher education degrees and doesn't know x, y, or z, that's relevant.

You say that my education has come up on other threads, but I'm quite sure I don't know what you're talking about. I sporadically post on the Dis once every few months and the only other time I can recall ever talking about education is the other day on a thread asking about Gifted and Talented classes. So...everyone was discussing their experiences with G&T and I shared mine...which was relevant to the discussion. I can't fathom where you're trying to go with that line of thought, but I do think it's a bit weird that you dug around to see what else I've been posting. In your own words, do you have nothing better to do with her afternoon than to stalk around on the dis?

And how, exactly, are you going to claim that I'm the one who turned this into a homeschooling thread?! Are you kidding me?! There are no less than a dozen people who've been engaged in a homeschooling discussion here and somehow that's my responsibility? I feel like I should be pretty impressed with myself.

Lastly, I'm most definitely not trying to convince anyone of anything regarding my kids and how I school them. If I was, I would certainly do something other than sit around and bicker. I'd show examples of their work, copies of my grade books, videos of their projects and reports. But I wouldn't do that, because I don't care whether or not anyone here finds my schooling to be up to par.

You MOST CERTAINLY hijacked this thread and made it about your qualifications and your and your husbands education and not wanting regulations on homeschool. NO matter what subject was being discussed you have felt the need to respond to almost everybody who had something to say whether they were speaking to you or not. Every single PAGE of this thread has at least one post from you, sometimes 3 or 4 per page.

One would deduce that you have taken this thread on as a personal mission. And you are VERY defensive. THAT seems on the odd side to me.

I have never heard someone refer to their own degree, husband's degree, their own IQ, their ability to be in Mensa. It seems like you have a REAL NEED to let the world know how smart you and your family are.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

I've been mostly reading this thread and even though you don't see it your posts are mostly defensive. Understandable, considering you are pushing your agenda while standing on you and hubby's high horse , but remember so much defense will eventually bring offense.

Do you teach your kids Shakespeare? The lady doth protest too much, methinks applies here. If your premise is good for you than you don't have to prove and over prove yourself to a group of unnamed no face people on the internet. It has become nothing but static at this point.

Knowledge is nothing compared to wisdom. Your point would be more welcome if you showed yourself to be wise.

Amen.
Out of all the homeschoolers while I might not agree I get it.
There is one homeschooler I would have on my CPS radar.

What a strange insulated close minded world. Very scary for the children.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

There are five clauses in the First. None of them are justification for homeschooling in general. Again, if someone wants to make the argument, I'm totally interested in their reasoning, but just claiming it is isn't helpful, as it's really not.

#4

I understand that you are very interested in discussing it. I simply cannot because I have had my hand smacked in the past for something I believed to be completely 100% benign.

What you are looking for is the mention of education in the constitution. It is absent. (Got that note from a link I cannot provide--sorry!)

But clause #4 most certainly does come into play. I have read your comments on other threads, so I am not surprised if you are claiming that it is NOT a basis. But it is a basis.

In fact- that is why in some states, a parent CAN choose that as an exemption to any and all standards. We personally elect to not do that. But we do know people who do that and that right is constitutionally protected (for states with that exemption). You would be hard pressed to find constitutional basis to have the state remove that law.

I know it is an option in Virginia, but it was not in Florida that I can recall. It is an option in other states as well.

But in a nut shell--

Summarized based on years of things I have read and seminars I have attended:

At one time, the government thought it would be a good idea to control everything. Some parochial schools stood up and said not so fast. Later, homeschoolers stood up and said they were no different than a private school...and then it evolved from that.

I think at this point, it would become a philosophical debate versus an actual legal debate.

On a regular basis, various amendments of the constitution are utilized to shoot down legislate in the works or to change or eliminate laws that illegally punished homeschoolers.

http://www.hslda.org/ is a great resource on that aspect.

I should note that I do not ordinarily agree with quite everything they pursue. But you can evaluate the statutes in all 50 states and see how very different they all are and the wording they use for the students of that state.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I haven't really seen people being disrespectful in this thread.

I don't think disagreeing with someone or suggesting they're wrong or that what they believe isn't a universal truth - which seems to me what you're describing - is disrespectful either though.

I am not referring to disagreement. There was a pot shot or two a while back. Generalizations made that were indeed disrespectful to the person or persons to whom the generalizations were aimed.

 

[knitster]

You MOST CERTAINLY hijacked this thread and made it about your qualifications and your and your husbands education and not wanting regulations on homeschool. NO matter what subject was being discussed you have felt the need to respond to almost everybody who had something to say whether they were speaking to you or not. Every single PAGE of this thread has at least one post from you, sometimes 3 or 4 per page.

One would deduce that you have taken this thread on as a personal mission. And you are VERY defensive. THAT seems on the odd side to me.

I have never heard someone refer to their own degree, husband's degree, their own IQ, their ability to be in Mensa. It seems like you have a REAL NEED to let the world know how smart you and your family are.

I've got news for you, I'm not the only poster who has posted on every page of this thread. But I fully admit to enjoying a lively debate and getting swept up in it. I still will not take responsibility for a discussion that has been actively participated in by dozens of people. But if you feel like this discussion is my fault, I'm fine with that.

Again, I don't think I'm any more or less intelligent than the other person participating in this discussion. If you've perceived my response in that way, there's nothing I can do or say to convince you otherwise.

Amen.
Out of all the homeschoolers while I might not agree I get it.
There is one homeschooler I would have on my CPS radar.

You've crossed a line by handing me this thinly veiled threat and I will no longer engage in further discussion with you.

 

[Colleen27]

There are thousands of kids that are homeschooled that are getting a great education, there are also many that are getting little to no education. What is going to happen to that set of kids?

The same thing that happens to the kids who are failed by public and private schools, I suppose. They either work hard and make it up as young adults/in college, or they live with the consequences of a substandard education.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You MOST CERTAINLY hijacked this thread and made it about your qualifications and your and your husbands education and not wanting regulations on homeschool. NO matter what subject was being discussed you have felt the need to respond to almost everybody who had something to say whether they were speaking to you or not. Every single PAGE of this thread has at least one post from you, sometimes 3 or 4 per page.

One would deduce that you have taken this thread on as a personal mission. And you are VERY defensive. THAT seems on the odd side to me.

I have never heard someone refer to their own degree, husband's degree, their own IQ, their ability to be in Mensa. It seems like you have a REAL NEED to let the world know how smart you and your family are.

I would have to disagree. I caught the Mensa comment on another thread. Someone else brought it up.

She mentioned it on this thread because someone got their panties in a twist over the misuse of homonyms and how that made those who made them unqualified to homeschool. She did not bring them up just to brag. She brought them up because someone made a particular statement that people who made such errors were not qualified to homeschool.

I and a few posters mentioned as well what our "credentials" were--but everyone is focusing on this one poster.

She is posting because it is something she believes in. A thread on unschooling has never remained solely about unschooling as many posters who are troubled by people mentioned in the OP tend to believe that all homeschoolers must be like that and that is why homeschooling is bad and should have stronger restrictions.

The OP did not like that people wanted her to report the family and those of use who are familiar with homeschooling and those (not me) who understand unschooling (oops--said the wrong one, now fixed) tried to explain that this mom doesn't seem to be doing that. Then one or two chimed in and said it was fine.

I don't necessarily agree with everything posted--but there is fine line between making a law because there is chaos and making a law because there is 1 idiot in a thousand who is ruining their kids.

I am not quite sure why posters have focused on this one poster when others have stated very similar things.

And those who have not noticed the few statements of disrespect, probably don't notice since they disagree with whom that disrespect was aimed.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You've crossed a line by handing me this thinly veiled threat and I will no longer engage in further discussion with you.

I might be mistaken..heck at this point, I may be confusing posters...

But I don't think that comment was aimed at you. If it was--then it wasn't cool. But for some reason, I don't think it was you.

 

[skater]

Amen.
Out of all the homeschoolers while I might not agree I get it.
There is one homeschooler I would have on my CPS radar.

What a strange insulated close minded world. Very scary for the children.

But why? I've read all her posts and I don't see anything strange there? Or maybe you're talking about the unschooler - if so, sorry .

 

[Colleen27]

Seriously? Around here, Algebra II in junior year is standard for most students except vocatoinal or special ed. Many, many students take it in 9th grade. If you have any hope of being successful in science or engineering majors in college, Algebra II plus Trig and Precalc are truly the very bare minimum you should have upon HS graduation - the vast majority of college freshman in those majors have already had Calculus I and maybe Calc II. I'm shocked that someone can get a high school diploma without having taken Algebra II.

ETA: This came across as more harsh to you, Colleen, than I intended. I don't doubt you at all, I just find it upsetting and sad that that's the state of public schools where you live.

It may have changed since I was in school. Where I went, calc I had been the AP math offering for seniors until it was eliminated due to budget cuts, leaving trig & pre-calc as the most advanced offering, and that wasn't unusual among the schools I was familiar with then (mid-late 90s).

I don't have high schoolers yet myself; my oldest is 7th grade in a school where pre-algebra is advanced 7th grade/standard 8th grade/low-track 9th grade math but I haven't yet looked at where it goes from there. I'm not really concerned with it yet, because my oldest isn't advance-track academic and my very academic/bright middle child plans to apply to an IB magnet for high school. I think expecting pre-calculus as a standard for HS grads is a bit extreme, though - that's fairly advanced math that is unnecessary to the majority of paths a student might take in adulthood.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

. I think expecting pre-calculus as a standard for HS grads is a bit extreme, though - that's fairly advanced math that is unnecessary to the majority of paths a student might take in adulthood.

It seems that students need a certain number of years of math for college. How high of math that must be will depend on the college. But generally Alg I/II and Geometry would satisfy that.

I can't recall what the SAT covers on the math, though. Is it only through Geometry and Algebra II?

ETA: We are tracking our kids through Pre-calculus. I just cannot remember what the SAT covers.

 

[cornflake]

#4

I understand that you are very interested in discussing it. I simply cannot because I have had my hand smacked in the past for something I believed to be completely 100% benign.

What you are looking for is the mention of education in the constitution. It is absent. (Got that note from a link I cannot provide--sorry!)

But clause #4 most certainly does come into play. I have read your comments on other threads, so I am not surprised if you are claiming that it is NOT a basis. But it is a basis.

In fact- that is why in some states, a parent CAN choose that as an exemption to any and all standards. We personally elect to not do that. But we do know people who do that and that right is constitutionally protected (for states with that exemption). You would be hard pressed to find constitutional basis to have the state remove that law.

I know it is an option in Virginia, but it was not in Florida that I can recall. It is an option in other states as well.

But in a nut shell--

Summarized based on years of things I have read and seminars I have attended:

At one time, the government thought it would be a good idea to control everything. Some parochial schools stood up and said not so fast. Later, homeschoolers stood up and said they were no different than a private school...and then it evolved from that.

I think at this point, it would become a philosophical debate versus an actual legal debate.

On a regular basis, various amendments of the constitution are utilized to shoot down legislate in the works or to change or eliminate laws that illegally punished homeschoolers.

http://www.hslda.org/ is a great resource on that aspect.

I should note that I do not ordinarily agree with quite everything they pursue. But you can evaluate the statutes in all 50 states and see how very different they all are and the wording they use for the students of that state.

No, I'm not in any way "looking for ... the mention of education in the constitution," that'd be ... odd in many ways, not the least because it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

I'm asking what clause in the First Amendment the original poster to say homeschooling was legal because of the First was referring to, because I don't get it. I have NO earthly idea how you think it's freedom of the press - though I don't see how anyone is tying any clause to it. Hence I've asked, repeatedly, what clause they're tying to it and how.

You brought up a famous case that does somewhat speak to home schooling as it spoke to the right to remove children from government schooling and that's based on the 14th. Famously based on the 14th.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No, I'm not in any way "looking for ... the mention of education in the constitution," that'd be ... odd in many ways, not the least because it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

I'm asking what clause in the First Amendment the original poster to say homeschooling was legal because of the First was referring to, because I don't get it. I have NO earthly idea how you think it's freedom of the press - though I don't see how anyone is tying any clause to it. Hence I've asked, repeatedly, what clause they're tying to it and how.

You brought up a famous case that does somewhat speak to home schooling as it spoke to the right to remove children from government schooling and that's based on the 14th. Famously based on the 14th.

I wasn't sure and as I said it was from a link I found. It wasn't an accusation towards you. Maybe the link I copied had the clauses wrong. Definitely not freedom of the press.

So I give up...
Freedom of Religion.

Just googled again, looked at a California summary of homeschool law and the case citation for that is: 62 Wisconsin v. Yoder (1972) 406 U.S. 205. Perhaps that is relevant?

Another case cited in that particular article I located is this regarding Freedom of Expression: West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943) 319 U.S. 624, 642. The statement made (from the reference based on their interpretation of the case): " The first amendment protects us from government invasion of the "sphere of intellect and spirit . . . ."65 One theory here would be that, for some parents, homeschooling is an expression of their fundamental (non-religious) beliefs about parenting, education and the state."

Seriously--if you google for constitutional basis for homeschooling, you can find much information that goes beyond Wikipedia with very complete explanations with source citation. Some site more cases than others. The original one I found (on my iPhone) mentioned all the applicable amendments but then only mentioned 2 cases. The latest link has footnotes listing many more cases.

I can PM you the latest link I found if you would like.

ETA: the 62 and 65 are the footnote numbers--apologies for that

 

[dzorn]

It may have changed since I was in school. Where I went, calc I had been the AP math offering for seniors until it was eliminated due to budget cuts, leaving trig & pre-calc as the most advanced offering, and that wasn't unusual among the schools I was familiar with then (mid-late 90s).

I don't have high schoolers yet myself; my oldest is 7th grade in a school where pre-algebra is advanced 7th grade/standard 8th grade/low-track 9th grade math but I haven't yet looked at where it goes from there. I'm not really concerned with it yet, because my oldest isn't advance-track academic and my very academic/bright middle child plans to apply to an IB magnet for high school. I think expecting pre-calculus as a standard for HS grads is a bit extreme, though - that's fairly advanced math that is unnecessary to the majority of paths a student might take in adulthood.

Not sure what most of the kids around here take but 12 grade does offer both pre-calc and AP calc. When I graduated a few year ago AP calc was one class of students only. It was nice to start out college in Calc 2.

Denise in MI