Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[hambirg]

How was that defined, precisely?

I ask, because although I would not "un"school...I have known unschoolers who were actually quite structured. They just didn't follow a curriculum and use textbooks. But there was organization to their "un" schooling.

Clearly in an unstructured setting, the risk is greater that chaos will reign and learning won't take place in an adequate manner.

But that is true of any unstructured activity. Goals are an important thing and if you don't have them, you certainly will not meet them.

I'm not sure about this particular study, but in general, when talking about education "unstructured" usually means with no set objectives. So that falls exactly into what you are saying about needing goals.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

OK...I've got lots of friends who homeschool, and that's all well and good. But what is it with this list that is always trotted out in defense of homeschooling? Of course a lot of those people were 'homeschooled' - many of them were born and educated before the advent of the modern educational system. Not to mention for every person on that list there are scores of successful people who were educated in public schools, private schools, etc.....

I don't quite understand your point, but I will try to explain the purpose of the list anyway...


I find the list inspirational myself.

The fact they were home educated prior to the modern education system is irrelevant. The fact that they were educated at all is. It is the perfect defense of homeschooling to the naysayers who try to claim it doesn't, can't work, and won't work.

It doesn't make those on the list better than those who went to traditional school and went on to become famous and successful. Homeschooling is just a different way to educate and the existence of public and private schooling won't change that it is a viable way to educate.

People need to stop making it a contest between the 3 options. It isn't. It is a choice for individual families and to have great people in history who were homeschool serves as great inspiration. For if our forefathers could be educated with limited resources compared to what is available now, the possibilities are endless for a determined family to homeschool successfully should the decide that to be the best option for their children.

The advent of a school system wasn't intended to prohibit families from home educating (imho), it was to provide access to those who did not have the money or resources to be educated. They would remain illiterate without access to public schooling.

 

[humboldthny]

I'm a big fan of direct instruction. I know it works. I've seen it work. But apparently it's fallen out of favor. . .for exactly the reasons behind this "unschooling" philosophy.

Not out of favor here - There is a group of 4 schools (a charter and 3 private, with an upper school in the works) in our county that are very, very successful using Direct Instruction. The charter is one of the most popular and successful in the state and consistently has 300+ applicants per grade level every year with 5 classes at each grade.

 

[sookie]

Just google and you shall find.
And if you are willing, you can actually read about the individuals themselves to learn more.

But you have missed the point completely. These famous people are mentioned to show that home educating is doable. People--without citation and contrary to statistics--like to say that homeschooling doesn't work or that it only works for a small portion of the population. It is an erroneous statement made and accepted often--without citation, by those who question the merit of homeschooling.

Yet you wish others to produce a bibliography?

Did they not mention how Abe Lincoln was educated to you in school?

Just for fun: General Patton: http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/bios/b4pattong.htm

Another list:http://www.successful-homeschooling.com/famous-homeschoolers.html

My favorite is Tim Tebow.

Tim Tebow and his family are complete idiots. If momma tebow's story regarding the "abortion" was true - she'd be dead. She spread a lot of false information in the hopes of propogating religion. I hope no one dies because of it.

 

[Coconut36]

I don't quite understand your point, but I will try to explain the purpose of the list anyway...


I find the list inspirational myself.

The fact they were home educated prior to the modern education system is irrelevant. The fact that they were educated at all is. It is the perfect defense of homeschooling to the naysayers who try to claim it doesn't, can't work, and won't work.

It doesn't make those on the list better than those who went to traditional school and went on to become famous and successful. Homeschooling is just a different way to educate and the existence of public and private schooling won't change that it is a viable way to educate.

People need to stop making it a contest between the 3 options. It isn't. It is a choice for individual families and to have great people in history who were homeschool serves as great inspiration. For if our forefathers could be educated with limited resources compared to what is available now, the possibilities are endless for a determined family to homeschool successfully should the decide that to be the best option for their children.

The advent of a school system wasn't intended to prohibit families from home educating (imho), it was to provide access to those who did not have the money or resources to be educated. They would remain illiterate without access to public schooling.

To be clear..I have no issue with the choice to home school (not a fan of unschooling) but I fail to see how a list that has people educated prior to access to schooling/modern education is "perfect defense to the naysayers". That makes zero sense.

These people were home schooled for lack of any other option. It doesn't mean it worked..it means it was the only option available and they did the only thing they could do. That fact that it occurred prior to modern education and access to school for most is extremely relevant. You have yet to explain how a list of people educated hundreds of years ago is a "perfect defense" of home schooling? How is it remotely relevant and what exactly is it proving to anyone?

Modern day examples are far more relevant to a modern day discussion regarding the success or failure of homeschooling. George Washington being home schooled means absolutely nothing to "prove" the effectiveness or value of home schooling because the times and options are not comparable to current times.

 

[knitster]

I don't quite understand your point, but I will try to explain the purpose of the list anyway...


I find the list inspirational myself.

The fact they were home educated prior to the modern education system is irrelevant. The fact that they were educated at all is. It is the perfect defense of homeschooling to the naysayers who try to claim it doesn't, can't work, and won't work.

It doesn't make those on the list better than those who went to traditional school and went on to become famous and successful. Homeschooling is just a different way to educate and the existence of public and private schooling won't change that it is a viable way to educate.

People need to stop making it a contest between the 3 options. It isn't. It is a choice for individual families and to have great people in history who were homeschool serves as great inspiration. For if our forefathers could be educated with limited resources compared to what is available now, the possibilities are endless for a determined family to homeschool successfully should the decide that to be the best option for their children.

The advent of a school system wasn't intended to prohibit families from home educating (imho), it was to provide access to those who did not have the money or resources to be educated. They would remain illiterate without access to public schooling.

Exactly.

 

[knitster]

Tim Tebow and his family are complete idiots.

Wow, that's quite a bold and venomous statement for someone whom, I assume, does not personally know the Tebows.

 

[princessmom29]

Tim Tebow and his family are complete idiots. If momma tebow's story regarding the "abortion" was true - she'd be dead. She spread a lot of false information in the hopes of propogating religion. I hope no one dies because of it.

they are definitely misguided as to a lot of things. I would not be pointing to them as some kind of enlightened shining example of homeschool success.

I do think homeschooling can and does work when done correctly. It takes a MASSIVE amount of work to adequately educate a child at home in this day in age, however. Not everyone is cut out to do it successfully. It takes an informed driven parent who is willing to do wahtever it takes to get thier child what they need to be successful, and be willing to admit it when they are NOT qualified to teach a subject anymore so that they can find someone who is qualified ot help thier child.

In general, most incarnations of unschooling do not fit with this model. Only the most self motivated and focused of children can make a success of true unschooling, becuase that is who has to make it a success. The child, not the parent, determines the success or failure of true unschooling, and it rarely produces a well rounded, fully educated child.

 

[DebIreland]

How was that defined, precisely?

I ask, because although I would not "un"school...I have known unschoolers who were actually quite structured. They just didn't follow a curriculum and use textbooks. But there was organization to their "un" schooling.

Clearly in an unstructured setting, the risk is greater that chaos will reign and learning won't take place in an adequate manner.

But that is true of any unstructured activity. Goals are an important thing and if you don't have them, you certainly will not meet them.

I don't understand though how there could be any organization at all in unschooling. If children are allowed to dictate when and what they learn (or if they learn at all), how can there by any structure or organization?

 

[princessmom29]

I don't understand though how there could be any organization at all in unschooling. If children are allowed to dictate when and what they learn (or if they learn at all), how can there by any structure or organization?

exactly. by its very definition unschooling would mean you would NOT do those things.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

To be clear..I have no issue with the choice to home school (not a fan of unschooling) but I fail to see how a list that has people educated prior to access to schooling/modern education is "perfect defense to the naysayers". That makes zero sense.

These people were home schooled for lack of any other option. It doesn't mean it worked..it means it was the only option available and they did the only thing they could do. That fact that it occurred prior to modern education and access to school for most is extremely relevant. You have yet to explain how a list of people educated hundreds of years ago is a "perfect defense" of home schooling? How is it remotely relevant and what exactly is it proving to anyone?

Modern day examples are far more relevant to a modern day discussion regarding the success or failure of homeschooling. George Washington being home schooled means absolutely nothing to "prove" the effectiveness or value of home schooling because the times and options are not comparable to current times.

How do you figure it didn't work?

Was George Washington illiterate? Did he become General just because he was a nice guy and got lucky?

Nathanial Bowditch was able to go to school, but could not because he had to begin an apprenticeship. He educated himself and wrote the New American Practical Navigator still in print and used today. (I had to cheat and google the title) So today--we continue to utilize something that was written 200 years ago? Why would that be? Those old ancient texts were all written before the modern school system. Could the modern school system not create minds that could write something better than a self taught mathematician, astronomer and navigator?

You discredit what they on the list did did just because it isn't modern. That makes zero sense.

The modern examples are simply the admissions rates and testing scores of the homeschool group of students. But modern information doesn't seem to sway public opinion either.

 

[sookie]

Wow, that's quite a bold and venomous statement for someone whom, I assume, does not personally know the Tebows.

Yes, it is quite venomous because the information they spread - as a family - in their prolife PSA's - was AWFUL and most certainly could hurt women if they listen. It was a "Focus on the Family" ad. I completely was (past tense) was a supporter of Focus on the Family as well.

Tim Tebow's mother and father claim that she was diagnosed with a molar pregnancy. But by their faith, they decided they would not get medical treatment for the "molar pregnancy" and they had Tim Tebow. Oh, and now they have changed their story - that she had a molar pregnancy and that she she was treated with drugs for dysentary and was told that this would cause birth defects. Oh, and then she had a placental abruption. The placental abruption - if she had really had it - would have killed her and baby Tim without treatment, as there is so much blood loss that usually both die without immediate intervention. Further, a molar pregnancy is very very dangerous and often deadly for untreated women. It's a cancer and they actually have to go through cancer treatment. It's not a pregnancy. It's a cancer. Oh and the insane hypertension can be deadly too with molar pregnancies. Placental abruption kills babies and their mothers within minutes. These are scary conditions. Making mothers shy away from proper medical treatment is sickening.

Anyway, I wish I could knock some sense into Tim Tebow's family. I'm sure he eats up their lies, but anyone with google and half a brain should see what a bunch of bunk it is.

 

[sookie]

they are definitely misguided as to a lot of things. I would not be pointing to them as some kind of enlightened shining example of homeschool success.

I do think homeschooling can and does work when done correctly. It takes a MASSIVE amount of work to adequately educate a child at home in this day in age, however. Not everyone is cut out to do it successfully. It takes an informed driven parent who is willing to do wahtever it takes to get thier child what they need to be successful, and be willing to admit it when they are NOT qualified to teach a subject anymore so that they can find someone who is qualified ot help thier child.

In general, most incarnations of unschooling do not fit with this model. Only the most self motivated and focused of children can make a success of true unschooling, becuase that is who has to make it a success. The child, not the parent, determines the success or failure of true unschooling, and it rarely produces a well rounded, fully educated child.

Thank you! I totally agree with your post.
I also think that we are given children to parent. Not parenting them teaching them nothing. I don't want my 5 year old making all the choices. If that was the case, all we would have in the house would be lucky charms and choc chip cookies. Same thing with education. We make the choices because it is healthier for them... and they can't make those choices themselves without proper guideance and discipline.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't understand though how there could be any organization at all in unschooling. If children are allowed to dictate when and what they learn (or if they learn at all), how can there by any structure or organization?

Think Montessori?

That is the closest I can come to understanding unschooling and aside from the "anarchy" type unschoolers who literally seem to do nothing--the rest of the unschoolers do have some structure/organization.

Not really sure how to explain it. There are unschoolers like the OP's friend and there are unschoolers who actually guide their children in some manner towards an education.

 

[horseshowmom]

Tim Tebow and his family are complete idiots. If momma tebow's story regarding the "abortion" was true - she'd be dead. She spread a lot of false information in the hopes of propogating religion. I hope no one dies because of it.

Wow. Just wow...

Wow, that's quite a bold and venomous statement for someone whom, I assume, does not personally know the Tebows.

Isn't it though?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I would not be pointing to them as some kind of enlightened shining example of homeschool success.

The very weird off topic stuff aside...

If he isn't successful, then who is?

Full ride to UF and subsequent NFL career....

What that says--is that people either like homeschooling or they don't and regardless of how many graduate just fine and go on to live a productive life, it won't change those who just are so hell bent on restricting the rights of others.

George Washington doesn't count because that was too long ago...

Tim Tebow doesn't count because folks have personal issues with umm...well...

Who counts?

When is one "successful" at being homeschooled?

Full ride to Harvard? They become an astronaut? They cure Breast Cancer?

 

[knitster]

The very weird off topic stuff aside...

If he isn't successful, then who is?

Full ride to UF and subsequent NFL career....

What that says--is that people either like homeschooling or they don't and regardless of how many graduate just fine and go on to live a productive life, it won't change those who just are so hell bent on restricting the rights of others.

George Washington doesn't count because that was too long ago...

Tim Tebow doesn't count because folks have personal issues with umm...well...

Who counts?

When is one "successful" at being homeschooled?

Full ride to Harvard? They become an astronaut? They cure Breast Cancer?

My thoughts, exactly.

I, admittedly, know next to nothing about the Tebows. In fact, I didn't even know Tim was homeschooled until yesterday when it was mentioned in this tread. So I certainly can't comment on what has been said about his parents up thread, but I will say that it appears their religious beliefs didn't hinder their ability to homeschool a child who became a highly successful adult.

 

[sookie]

Re: the Tebow's - if women die because of momma Tebow's advice - which was spread out to the world during the superbowl - yes I have a problem that. You should too.

Getting off my soapbox. I don't care if he was homeschooled or not - and with their missionary lifestyle, I'm not surprised that he was. But they are not a family to hold up as an example of virtue or success. Their PSA's could hurt women.

That is all.

 

[princessmom29]

The very weird off topic stuff aside...

If he isn't successful, then who is?

Full ride to UF and subsequent NFL career....

What that says--is that people either like homeschooling or they don't and regardless of how many graduate just fine and go on to live a productive life, it won't change those who just are so hell bent on restricting the rights of others.

George Washington doesn't count because that was too long ago...

Tim Tebow doesn't count because folks have personal issues with umm...well...

Who counts?

When is one "successful" at being homeschooled?

Full ride to Harvard? They become an astronaut? They cure Breast Cancer?

What does his football talent have to do with how well he was homeschooled??? For the record, I don't have a probelm withhomeschooling at all, just with the Tebows using Tim's usuccess as a platfrom for thier own special brand of misinformation.

 

[knitster]

Re: the Tebow's - if women die because of momma Tebow's advice - which was spread out to the world during the superbowl - yes I have a problem that. You should too.

I'm not saying I don't have a problem with that (I'm neutral on the matter until I have time to research her story on my own, as I've mentioned I know little about her aside from what others have said). What I'm saying is that her religious beliefs, reproductive rights beliefs, medical advice - misguided or otherwise - doesn't have anything to do with whether or not she successfully homeschooled her children, which she clearly did. None of the rest of it has any relevance to this conversation.