Any news when DVC members can get an annual pass???

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By your definition, what DVC benefits have been reduced or eliminated?

Park tickets is an issue that we all agree should be addressed.

Members get discounts on merchandise, food, golf, most other recreation services (beach chair rentals, Surrey bikes, etc), behind the scenes tours, water park admission, mini golf, cabana rentals, spa services.... What meaningful areas are not being covered?

Park tickets are the big one. And the others are still 'being addressed' to use your own words. But most everything was 20% until a few years ago, when they all were reduced slowly to a point where most are 10% now, and some of them don't exist at all anymore. I'm not sure I could be specific beyond that, as the AP discounts and the DVC discounts have so much cross-over that I don't always do a very good job of separating them.
 
As a shareholder and someone with three decades in media finance I couldn't agree more with you Debbie, but insulting one sub-group of loyal customers was one of the factors that led to Chapek's firing. No one should say that out loud and expect to keep their job because Disney isn't going to fill the parks with just DVC owners, they need all their customers.
I’m an AP Holder and don’t consider his comment an insult. “Unfavorable attendance mix” refers to the numbers of people attending, their types of tickets and the financial results. It’s just a fact. People are taking it out of context and making it an emotional comment against AP Holders.
 
I’m an AP Holder and don’t consider his comment an insult. “Unfavorable attendance mix” refers to the numbers of people attending, their types of tickets and the financial results. It’s just a fact. People are taking it out of context and making it an emotional comment against AP Holders.

I happen to agree. When one is discussing the financial aspect of things from the business side, it’s simply stating facts from that lens.

I simply choose not to take anything they do personally and realize what I can and can not control and make decisions from there.

As mentioned, It would be nice to see them do something related to park admissions for DVC owners to reduce costs.

They obviously give bulk discounts to third party ticket sellers...why not make that available to those who have DVC so they can buy directly from Disney?
 
DVC *SHOULD* come up with some sort of offer for members, APs or otherwise.
Tim, we're normally on the same page, but I disagree with you here. DVC could do that. But I am not sure DVC should do that--at least, not in the business-case sense of "should".

Over its history, Disney has been reasonably good at maintaining "gate integrity"--setting up a pricing structure that in most cases ensures a minimum per-day spend for more or less everyone who walks in the park*. And, that's because the theme parks are the engine that drives everything else in the domestic resorts. I can recall exactly one time they've discounted single-day tickets--the "give a day get a day" promotion coming out of the Great Recession. [In hindsight, I'm guessing that promotion was viewed as a too-successful failure--it closed almost nine months early.] Most of their other "deals" are likely thought of internally as upsells in disguise.

One example of such an upsell is the pricing structure on multi-day tickets. You get a small discount on the fourth day, and the "real" discounts don't start showing up until day 5. Guess how many parks there are? The fourth-day discount is essentially a way to say "You've seen the three you really wanted; might as well see the fourth." The fifth day and beyond is "We may as well go back to Disney for another day instead of paying 2-3x to go to Sea World or Universal."

The same is true for the AP structure. For out of state visitors, the break-even point is somewhere between two and three "visits" per year, where each visit is at least several days in length. How many times do we see people say something like: "I bought it for the two trips we had planned, and then figured the third trip was 'free' so I booked an extra one." Except of course that third trip isn't free, only the admission is.

The same is arguably true for DVC. The minimum is 150 points, and that sounds like a lot if you are staying at Saratoga or Old Key West. But, at Riviera it's just barely more than a week's stay in a Standard view studio, on average. So, an entry-level DVC purchase is maybe two trips per year--and again that's just under the "regular" AP price, and a bit more than the other AP DVCers were able to get. That AP structure probably encourages slightly more trips that are a bit shorter than otherwise, and that probably fuels more spending elsewhere. If you make two 5-night trips, you might do two Signature meals each. You might only do three Signature meals in one ten-night trip. Two After Hours events rather than one. And so on.

The other part of this story is that existing DVC Members just are not that important from the POV of the theme parks. There are somewhere between 250K and 300K DVC families. Assume they spent all their DVC time at WDW. Further assume they have three people on average, and average seven park days per year. (That's probably off in one direction or the other, but it's probably also within a factor of 2.) That's a total of 275K * 3 * 7, or about 5.7M park-days. 2019 saw attendance of roughly 59M. So, the DVC crowd is maybe 10% of total park admission, give or take.

That's not zero. But in the "tail that wags the dog" analogy, DVC Members are not the dog. And, right now the dog has other problems, namely: several different times of year when they are unwilling to sell day tickets to anyone because they are too busy. I was at WDW for two weeks in mid-March last year, and most of those days had no day-of park pass availability anywhere. Disney was refusing to take money from people who wanted to give it to them. That's a far cry from the state of affairs pre-pandemic, when maybe that happened at Magic Kingdom four or five days a year, total, and all during the Christmas/New Years rush.

So, the Parks would really not rather engage in upselling more admissions at a discount. In the words of Ted Lasso being offered tea: "No thank you." DVC is an afterthought in that decision, and simply swept up in the broader currents of the theme parks. When that situation subsides--and I suspect it will before too much longer--APs will be back. And, out-of-state blue-card members will probably have access to a price point that regular out of state guests do not have. The lack of admission discounts is not some intentional slight towards DVC Members---it's strictly business.

But there is another problem. The point of Membership Extras is not to reward DVC Members who have already bought in. They exist for only two reasons. The first is to serve as upsells to people who have demonstrated they have cash they are willing to spend on Disney. (The merchandise and dining discounts probably play this role.) These are likely to be "paid for" by the unit offering the discount, because it is in that unit's best interests. They aren't doing a favor for DVC; they are helping themselves.

The second is to sell more points. And, those are "paid for" by the sales arm of DVC. The person responsible for P&L for the DVC segment needs those investments to bear fruit. I would bet big that admission discounts of any kind fall into this category. And therein lies the problem. Over time, point sales are roughly constant. But the Membership base is constantly growing. That means that, over time, perks that "every Member" gets cost a larger fraction of the total sales volume. And I suspect that's why DVD has turned to Moonlight Magic and similar promotions--because they are not available to every existing Member, and they do not get more expensive as there are more eligible Members.

Will this ultimately spell the death of DVC Member admission discounts? Probably not--and that's also becaues the theme parks are the engine that drives everything else. Dangling an admission discount is probably a very potent sales tool. But it does mean the admission discounts will probably get less generous over time. And, we've already seen that, in that DVC Members were no longer getting a discount on the top-tier AP during the last round or two of sales.

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And yes, everyone knows That Guy who had 200 visits during a year on one mid-tier AP. That Guy is the exception. This is a game of averages, not absolutes.
 

By your definition, what DVC benefits have been reduced or eliminated?

Park tickets is an issue that we all agree should be addressed.

Members get discounts on merchandise, food, golf, most other recreation services (beach chair rentals, Surrey bikes, etc), behind the scenes tours, water park admission, mini golf, cabana rentals, spa services.... What meaningful areas are not being covered?
I was reading a thread on the topic "Why Purchase Direct" this morning and the reduction in benefits seems to be a big issue. I'm doing the math now on DVC vs Disney resorts for us to consider DVC, but not having annual passes would make it a non starter. I completely sympathize with all the DVC members in this predicament.

To the manager at D23 that said you are just buying a room I'd counter that if you buy most other timeshares you are buying just accomodations, but investing in DVC ownership is a way of prepaying luxury accommodations at Walt Disney World or Disneyland -- an important disctinction I think.
 
But most everything was 20% until a few years ago, when they all were reduced slowly to a point where most are 10% now, and some of them don't exist at all anymore. I'm not sure I could be specific beyond that, as the AP discounts and the DVC discounts have so much cross-over that I don't always do a very good job of separating them.

Attached are photos of a "Portable Perks" booklet from 2011. Back then, members received:
  • 10% discount at exactly 25 dining locations and 20% discount at 9 plus those at Dolphin & Swan. Most discounts were for specific meals, like 10% off lunch at Biergarten and 10% off breakfast and lunch at Grand Floridian Cafe.
  • 15% off tours
  • 10% off select spa services
  • 15% off miniature golf
  • 10% off water sports
  • Shopping discounts at 14 specific shops across all WDW property, like 15% off merchandise at Rainforest Cafe and Yak & Yeti, and 10% at Curl by Sammie Duvall
Granted this is almost 12 years old...but that's kinda the point. If you're thinking that each of these perks improved at some point between 2011 and today, then proceeded to get worse, I would disagree. Many of these items have steadily improved over the years while others at least stayed unchanged. Today there are more than 100 dining locations at WDW which provide discounts to DVC members. Most are 10% but there are exceptions like 15% at Space 220, 20% at Nine Dragons and 20% at Dolphin / Swan.
 

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To the manager at D23 that said you are just buying a room I'd counter that if you buy most other timeshares you are buying just accomodations, but investing in DVC ownership is a way of prepaying luxury accommodations at Walt Disney World or Disneyland -- an important disctinction I think.
Nah, you bought even less. Maybe next year they can send out a lawyer to say you didn't even buy a room and read all the fine print. There are lots of circumstances you might not even get a room.

Fits the general movement to feel very timeshare-y.
 
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To the manager at D23 that said you are just buying a room I'd counter that if you buy most other timeshares you are buying just accomodations, but investing in DVC ownership is a way of prepaying luxury accommodations at Walt Disney World or Disneyland -- an important disctinction I think.
I'm not sure I see the difference, but I've always been in the "It's just another timeshare" camp.
 
If anyone really wants a trip down memory lane, here's a look at DVC perks circa 4th Q 2004. That's it...that's the list. Members received discounts at exactly 11 resort restaurants, most just 1 specific meal. In the parks there were 7 discounted locations including perennial gems like Tony's Town Square (but only lunch, members!) Rainforest Cafe at DAK and All-Star Cafe (??)

You want merchandise discounts? Don't forget to stop by Basin and....House of Blues!

DVC has changed over the years, both in good ways and bad. But this helps illustrate why I think some of the perk discussions are a little disingenuous. This is about 18 years ago when DVC allegedly "cared more" about members. 🤷‍♂️

If nothing else, long time members should recognize that things have improved dramatically over the last 10-15 years. And for newer members...what we have now is about as good as it's ever been. Don't hold out hopes of vast improvement.

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I received an email from DVC a few days before our trip last week. It instructed me to visit a DVC kiosk for a "Special Gift". While waiting on our room at Riviera, I approached the DVC kiosk and showed them the email. She handed me 1 DVC magnet. White and Gold. I asked if I could have another, (one for me and one for the wife's vehicle) and she said "sorry, only one per contract" so I opened up the app, went to my DVC and showed her I had RIV and HHI. She informed me she shouldn't but it was my "lucky" day lol. 2 contracts = 2 magnets, nothing lucky about that. What I should have done is stopped at every single DVC kiosk in the parks and got more but I'm not "that guy".
 
If anyone really wants a trip down memory lane, here's a look at DVC perks circa 4th Q 2004. That's it...that's the list. Members received discounts at exactly 11 resort restaurants, most just 1 specific meal. In the parks there were 7 discounted locations including perennial gems like Tony's Town Square (but only lunch, members!) Rainforest Cafe at DAK and All-Star Cafe (??)

You want merchandise discounts? Don't forget to stop by Basin and....House of Blues!

DVC has changed over the years, both in good ways and bad. But this helps illustrate why I think some of the perk discussions are a little disingenuous. This is about 18 years ago when DVC allegedly "cared more" about members. 🤷‍♂️

If nothing else, long time members should recognize that things have improved dramatically over the last 10-15 years. And for newer members...what we have now is about as good as it's ever been. Don't hold out hopes of vast improvement.

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Thank you for reinforcing my "feeling" that we're getting more discounts and other perks now than we did in the early years of our membership.
 
Thank you for reinforcing my "feeling" that we're getting more discounts and other perks now than we did in the early years of our membership.
When we bought, literally there was not much at all. No ticket discounts and a few dining discounts. So the "you bought a discounted room" was exactly what we bought. Anything else is appreciated but never expected.
 
This thread has been an eye opener. After reading these forums for some time I was under the impression that the perks were at their absolute worst these days!

When we first bought, there wasn’t anything great, For a few years, we bought TIW because the discounts were far better than what we got with DVC…but, once the DVC discounts began to apply to more, we didn’t need that because we didn’t always want to do as many sit downs as was required to make TIW worth it.
 
I think the removal or reduction of perks such as extra magic hours and the amenities of staying at a deluxe resort, magical express, boat rentals, movies, campfires, resort transportation, etc. while not a DVC caused issue, greatly reflect upon the value of paying to stay at a "deluxe" resort vs. A moderate or value. That is 10000000% something they sell and use for multiple comparisons during the sales process.


It'a great that I am paying less to stay at deluxe resorts.....too bad they aren't actually deluxe anymore. The value proposition starts to change when the Polynesian starts to match the moderates in terms of what they offer. That's a huge problem, as is the lack of annual pass, or at least a competitive ticket option.

I'd bet your membership base would be half what it is if you told everyone 10-15 ears ago what things would look like now. I know I wouldn't be a member.
 
none of these 'perks' hold a candle to the FREE park admissions we were treated to from when we bought in 1994 through the end of 1999.

I would suggest to Disney that they offer to us something along the lines of similar discounts given to Florida residents and giving tickets for DVC members either a much longer expiration or good forever like the old multi day park hoppers.
 
none of these 'perks' hold a candle to the FREE park admissions we were treated to from when we bought in 1994 through the end of 1999.

I would suggest to Disney that they offer to us something along the lines of similar discounts given to Florida residents and giving tickets for DVC members either a much longer expiration or good forever like the old multi day park hoppers.
i was just thinking the same thing.
 
I think the removal or reduction of perks such as extra magic hours and the amenities of staying at a deluxe resort, magical express, boat rentals, movies, campfires, resort transportation, etc. while not a DVC caused issue, greatly reflect upon the value of paying to stay at a "deluxe" resort vs. A moderate or value. That is 10000000% something they sell and use for multiple comparisons during the sales process.


It'a great that I am paying less to stay at deluxe resorts.....too bad they aren't actually deluxe anymore. The value proposition starts to change when the Polynesian starts to match the moderates in terms of what they offer. That's a huge problem, as is the lack of annual pass, or at least a competitive ticket option.

I'd bet your membership base would be half what it is if you told everyone 10-15 ears ago what things would look like now. I know I wouldn't be a member.
There still is extra magic hours, boat rentals, movies and campfires. Magical Express was removed due to Mears raising the price higher than Disney was willing to pay and the access to Uber and other quicker options were cutting into the advantage of Disney offering it. Also, the luggage handling company went out of business.
Yes, they were stopped during the Pandemic, but they are back and have been for months. I have no idea what resort transportation means? I think people have forgotten that perks and such are not a guarantee. If they are disappointed that is on them, as DVC has that all over the website.
 
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