Another view on FP+

[OtherScott]

I am so thankful that we don't care about TSM and DD isn't interested in meeting Anna and Elsa. Those two things alone make our life a whole lot easier.

We have 2 boys so we've avoided all that nonsense.

 

[mcd2745]

I just find it odd that we now have a system whereby people whose vactaions begin on 5/27 can use up all the FPs for 5/29 before people whose vacation begins on 5/29 can get them for that day. Sure, the person whose vacation begins on 5/29 gets a jump on 6/1 over people who arrive on 6/1, but maybe the MK doesn't fit into their plans for that day. I just have a hard time thinking that any of this makes more sense than: "show up at the park....get your FP".

Makes it pretty much identical to the ADR process, doesn't it? What I find interesting, is that there are many people who staunchly defend the ADR system (180+10), but are also very much anti-FP+. There's a contradiction there.

 

[OtherScott]

What makes you think the guy will?

I don't. That's my point.

I'm schmoe, and my late arrival has nothing to do with being lazy. I'd be there at dawn. It has to do with considering my wife's preferences.

 

[jade1]

No. I am not saying that. I think that 1,000 people all waiting 10 minutes would be great. It's all a matter of how those 1,000 people get allocated their passes. Under FP-, the 1,000 people who get to see Elsa and Anna with a 10 minute wait on 5/29 are all people who arrived at the park that day to see them. Granted, to get the coveted FPs, they would have to get there at RD. But now, the 1,000 people who get to see Elsa and Anna with a 10 minute wait on 5/29 are a random smattering of people whose windows oepned before others, who found out about FP+ before others, and who logged on to the computer at midnight before others. If you think that this form of distribution is more fair than allocating the 10 minute waits to people who actually show up at the park that day, then, yes, we do disagree. But under no circumstance would I be advocating for a system that has 1,000 people all wait 3 hours. I just find it odd that we now have a system whereby people whose vactaions begin on 5/27 can use up all the FPs for 5/29 before people whose vacation begins on 5/29 can get them for that day. Sure, the person whose vacation begins on 5/29 gets a jump on 6/1 over people who arrive on 6/1, but maybe the MK doesn't fit into their plans for that day. I just have a hard time thinking that any of this makes more sense than: "show up at the park....get your FP".

OK, corner kinda unpainted, sorry.

So you do admit the current non FP A&E was a failure at 3 hour plus waits all day, and that FP+ is far better correct? And that many if not most folks/kids had to pass (and will always have to pass if they don't hire more A&E's).

But we differ on the distribution of the FP's for the attraction. I'm good with that.

 

[OtherScott]

Makes it pretty much identical to the ADR process, doesn't it? What I find interesting, is that there are many people who staunchly defend the ADR system (180+10), but are also very much anti-FP+. There's a contradiction there.

Not really. A minute ago I was thinking, "What will I be hungry for at 6:00 pm on September 18th?"

 

[mcd2745]

Yesteryear's argument was, "Fine, if he wants to get the FP he can show up early."

I just wanted to point out, "He's here."

 

[Wdwvacationdad]

I'm having a hard time figuring out why the guy who's too lazy to make rope drop to pull an FP for Toy Story (or stand-by) will suddenly pre-book an FP for 9:00 am - then show up to use it.

Won't the same schmoe see the early morning time slot and pass?

I want to make sure I understand....why would I want a 9am FP+ if I'm not going to rope drop? Because I have CHILDREN. If we're running late, then we still have an hour window as a cushion in case we miss RD.

I haven't been since last spring, but I'm looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about. What I like about FP+ (in theory), is that my young children can stay up late for fireworks, catch up on sleep, eat breakfast with some characters, and we're not rushed to hit RD for DHS/AK/E. We can schedule 3 of our top rides at DHS for later in the morning. Again, I haven't used FP+ yet, and I understand there are still waits... but I feel like I'm able to plan out our day/week with a little more efficiency. And for all those people complaining about the off-site FP+ not being equitable, we're paying a huge premium to stay on-site...I think that's one of the trade-offs when selecting a place to stay.

 

[JimmyV]

So you do admit the current non FP A&E was a failure at 3 hour plus waits all day, Yes. Epic Fail.

and that FP+ is far better correct? Yes. No family should ever wait for 3 hours for anything.


But we differ on the distribution of the FP's for the attraction. I'm good with that. Yes. In fact, I would be completely placated by eliminating the "+10" and have everyone log on each day when they are 60 days out, making a "virtual RD". I don't think that this is too much of an inconvenience in order to create parity. People who are going to be at the MK on 5/29 should all be at the starting line at the same time, waiting for the same gun to go off.

Makes it pretty much identical to the ADR process, doesn't it? What I find interesting, is that there are many people who staunchly defend the ADR system (180+10), but are also very much anti-FP+. There's a contradiction there.

There is, but see above. I would do away with the +10 there as well for the same reasons. But in the end, there are far, far more restaurants that a family will find acceptable than there are "must do" attractions. If you don't get 'Ohana, you can adjust. But it isn't exactly the same when a 3 year old has their heart set on an attraction, so the contradiction is acceptable most of the time.

 

[MrInfinity]

No. I am not saying that. I think that 1,000 people all waiting 10 minutes would be great. It's all a matter of how those 1,000 people get allocated their passes. Under FP-, the 1,000 people who get to see Elsa and Anna with a 10 minute wait on 5/29 are all people who arrived at the park that day to see them. Granted, to get the coveted FPs, they would have to get there at RD. But now, the 1,000 people who get to see Elsa and Anna with a 10 minute wait on 5/29 are a random smattering of people whose windows oepned before others, who found out about FP+ before others, and who logged on to the computer at midnight before others. If you think that this form of distribution is more fair than allocating the 10 minute waits to people who actually show up at the park that day, then, yes, we do disagree. But under no circumstance would I be advocating for a system that has 1,000 people all wait 3 hours.

Yep I think you have it basically right. 1000 ppl get to see A&E w little wait.

Before, whoever showed up first and was the most aggressive got the spots.

Now, whoever is booking a resort stay will get first choice, via the 60-day window.

This is huge. It's a game-changer, no? We are seeing Disney give clear cut preferential treatment of their most desired and limited capacity attractions -- to their own resort guests.

 

[DVCJones]

In addition to making people feel "locked in" (which is their PR catch phrase), there is another important feature of FP+ that only gets nibbled around the edges here and hardly ever addressed directly. And that is where the $$$ is. When you ride on the Tomorrowland Speedway (assuming you do), you are riding in a vehicle that has a governor on it. The car could go faster, but Disney doesn't want you to. So too with FP+. It is a governor placed on the visitor to make them go slower and do less each day. Why? So that it will take you 6 or 7 full days to see and do everything in all the parks. Disney knows that it has stiff competition to the North on I-4 and it doesn't want you to go there. They want you to buy a 6 or 7 day pass and make 6 or 7 days of ADRs instead of buying a 4 or 5 day pass and making 4 or 5 days of ADRs. So they devise a system that allows you to think that arriving at a park mid-day is a good thing. And it is if you want to have a leisurely day and do a few things and then come back the next day. But the one thing they do not want you to do is hit all the headline attractions at a break-neck pace so that by the fifth day you are ready to go to Hogwarts. Simple as that. We like to think that Disney always has our best interests in mind. But that would be naive. Picture yourself sitting in the boardroom when some young computer-savvy, wet behind the ears techno-geek puts on a Power Point presentation showing his/her bosses how Disney can make touring its parks more efficient for guests, allowing them to shave hours off of their current schedules. "So you see ladies and gentleman--with my proposed innovations, guests will become faster, sleeker, more efficient, and will be able to get more done in less time! It will be great!" Know what you would call that employee?? Fired! Just like the guy in Detroit who designs a car that never needs repairs. Or the gal in Akron who designs a tire that lasts forever. Great for the consumer. But those people are soon out of jobs. Disney doesn't want you touring more efficiently. They want you touring less efficiently so that it takes you a full week, (or close to it) to do everything you want to do. And when you leave, you will be telling your kids: "Sorry. Maybe we will make it to Universal Studios next time." That is the goal, and the way they achieve that goal is to put a governor on you. Actually, what that means is that the FP return lines are the new SB lines, and the SB lines are the new Single Rider lines. If everyone had a FP, then that would be the equivalent of not having FP as an option. I think this is a fair assessment, as it is essentially another way of saying that fast-paced guests don't like being saddled with a governor.

What you are explaining here makes sense. I am someone who stays 8 days on property, but only does 3 days of parks. So, yes, I am feeling the sting of the new FP+ system. So much so, that instead of being part of that madness for 3 days, I'm opting to go to the parks 2 days (using what's left of my non-exp tickets) and one water park, instead of buying more park tickets. I'm actually making my visit in the parks shorter. Which also means less spending in the parks. Instead, I will be buying tickets to Lego Land and Universal and just use my DVC as home base. We will use our car to go to other places. I do not plan on buying any tickets until this mess is straightened out. I have enough water park and more days left on our tickets to use for the next 5 years. If I have to, I will use this time to use them up and visit all the places in the Orlando/Tampa area that I have been putting off. While I am sure I am in the minority, I can imagine that many DVC owners might do the same thing. Filling the resorts with guests who will be going other places than their parks....

 

[jade1]

But it isn't exactly the same when a 3 year old has their heart set on an attraction, so the contradiction is acceptable most of the time.

A 3 yo old that wants to see A&E? I will lock that ressie in thank you very much.

 

[OtherScott]

No. I am not saying that. I think that 1,000 people all waiting 10 minutes would be great. It's all a matter of how those 1,000 people get allocated their passes. Under FP-, the 1,000 people who get to see Elsa and Anna with a 10 minute wait on 5/29 are all people who arrived at the park that day to see them. Granted, to get the coveted FPs, they would have to get there at RD. But now, the 1,000 people who get to see Elsa and Anna with a 10 minute wait on 5/29 are a random smattering of people whose windows oepned before others, who found out about FP+ before others, and who logged on to the computer at midnight before others. If you think that this form of distribution is more fair than allocating the 10 minute waits to people who actually show up at the park that day, then, yes, we do disagree. But under no circumstance would I be advocating for a system that has 1,000 people all wait 3 hours. I just find it odd that we now have a system whereby people whose vactaions begin on 5/27 can use up all the FPs for 5/29 before people whose vacation begins on 5/29 can get them for that day. Sure, the person whose vacation begins on 5/29 gets a jump on 6/1 over people who arrive on 6/1, but maybe the MK doesn't fit into their plans for that day. I just have a hard time thinking that any of this makes more sense than: "show up at the park....get your FP".

But doesn't this help manage expectations? If we're talking about a 1,000 FPs, aren't we talking about the difference between making a few red lights vs hitting them green?

I would think there is some subset of guests who'd rather know 60 days out that they missed out on an FP for a particular date and can now adjust schedule to fit priorities, instead of arriving at park with expectant hearts and being beaten in a foot race - and then trying to adjust.

 

[jade1]

I am someone who stays 8 days on property, but only does 3 days of parks.

I'm opting to go to the parks 2 days (using what's left of my non-exp tickets) and one water park, instead of buying more park tickets.

So not much difference.

What did you normally do the other 5 days that is different now?

 

[*disgal*]

Yep I think you have it basically right. 1000 ppl get to see A&E w little wait.

Before, whoever showed up first and was the most aggressive got the spots.

Now, whoever is booking a resort stay will get first choice, via the 60-day window.

This is huge. It's a game-changer, no? We are seeing Disney give clear cut preferential treatment of their most desired and limited capacity attractions -- to their own resort guests.

Which is why you will still see the throw away room booked, imo. Actually, I would even be tempted by this. Book a room, get your MBs mailed to you, pick your FPs and then 30 days out, cancel your room. Actually, you could make a ressie for a week that way. Wouldn't cost you a dime.

hmmmm...Disney might have to do something about that loophole. What, I don't know. But if my trip was more than 2 months away, I would be tempted.

 

[DVCJones]

So not much difference. What did you normally do the other 5 days that is different now?

3 park days AND water park days a couple rest days... All on property.

 

[JimmyV]

Now, whoever is booking a resort stay will get first choice, via the 60-day window.

No. You have to go over and read that other thread. The people who are getting shut out are also resort guests. The problem is with the "+10". People who, for whatever reason, want or need to go to the MK on their first day are losing out to people who are going to the MK on the second-tenth days. They are all resort guests. But because the windows open in staggered fashion, people aren't finding availability 60 (or 61 or 62) days in advance. You and I are both going to stay at the Poly and go to the MK on August 1. But because you check in two days before me, you get first choice of FPs for August 1. I don't think this was ever the intended result of the 60 day booking window. Throw out the "+10" and I wouldn't have a problem with this, (although I still prefer rewarding the "aggressive" (as you put it) person who arrives at the park instead of the aggressive person who stays up until midnight to log on to the computer. Agressiveness is still rewarded. It is just a new and different form of aggression.)

 

[JimmyV]

A 3 yo old that wants to see A&E? I will lock that ressie in thank you very much.

And so say the people on that other thread. Only they aren't able to.

 

[mom2rtk]

No. You have to go over and read that other thread. The people who are getting shut out are also resort guests. The problem is with the "+10". People who, for whatever reason, want or need to go to the MK on their first day are losing out to people who are going to the MK on the second-tenth days. They are all resort guests. But because the windows open in staggered fashion, people aren't finding availability 60 (or 61 or 62) days in advance. You and I are both going to stay at the Poly and go to the MK on August 1. But because you check in two days before me, you get first choice of FPs for August 1. I don't think this was ever the intended result of the 60 day booking window. Throw out the "+10" and I wouldn't have a problem with this, (although I still prefer rewarding the "aggressive" (as you put it) person who arrives at the park instead of the aggressive person who stays up until midnight to log on to the computer. Agressiveness is still rewarded. It is just a new and different form of aggression.)

You also need to know the "secret handshake". Apparently if you split your group and get them in smaller quantities, you can get spots you couldn't get if you tried to book your entire group at once.

And people said it wasn't fair that people didn't know you could use legacy FP late. This is just crazy.

 

[clsteve]

You also need to know the "secret handshake". Apparently if you split your group and get them in smaller quantities, you can get spots you couldn't get if you tried to book your entire group at once.

And people said it wasn't fair that people didn't know you could use legacy FP late. This is just crazy.

Ah, those data warehouse business rules that cost so much....

With everyone starting to be able to pre-book, who knows what loopholes and workarounds will appear (and then disappear).

Well, it should keep things spicy around here for quite awhile......

 

[mom2rtk]

Well, it should keep things spicy around here for quite awhile......

I can think of a few heads that might explode.