And yet another, seems there is always another......

[Dakota731]

In case anyone's interested:

"I believe the weapon that was recovered at the (dance hall) Alhambra location is not legal
to have here in the state of California," LA Sheriff Robert Luna told reporters...

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/art...38573.php?stn=nf&sid=5dba84ae773f84004444b5a5

And what a shock - a criminal found a way to steal or obtain a gun illegally! Maybe we should just pass another gun law

 

[Dakota731]

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...shooter-kills-10-at-dance-club-motive-unclear

Another shocker -the original man poster is talking about was previously arrested for obtaining illegal firearms yet is back on the streets. Good place to start in this country is to put an end to electing soft on crime prosecutors that we’ve been putting in office the past few years. How about protecting the innocent law abiding citizens like we used to?

 

[mrodgers]

Genuinely curious, as someone who owns sporting guns but who has never thought of them as a matter of defense - Don't you worry that having a gun at the ready increases the chances of a middle-of-the-night accident if someone comes in late and you mistake them for an intruder? I've woken up to mysterious noises that turned out to be one of my older teen/young adult kids getting home or one of the bonus kids needing a place to stay often enough that I'd be more nervous about having a handgun ready to go than I ever have been to go through life unarmed.

That is why it is bad to assume. I live completely alone. I have no one coming in the house in the middle of the night who should be coming in the house in the middle of the night. No one is here but me.

The other assumption is that anyone who states they have a firearm at home, it is assumed that they are going to wake up, grab their gun, and start blazing away at every noise. That is pretty silly how everyone thinks this.

 

[mrodgers]

So sorry. I used the wrong terminology. What I meant to say was a semi-automatic rifle like an AR-15. I am genuinely curious. Isn't a handgun enough of a source of protection?

Just about every handgun is also semi-automatic. As Taxman said, people talking about stuff they don't have a clue about.

What people are scared of is scary looking guns. I wish I saved the video. People are scared strictly of the look of the gun without even knowing what it is. In said video people were asked which gun should be banned and everyone picked the scary black one over the wood no pistol grip looks like a hunting rifle. Then he disassembled them and reassembled them swapping out just the scary black stock, barrel and such with the wood one. They were the same functioning rifle, only one was scary black and the other was wood.

Another video showed pictures of 8 rifles and asked which ones should be banned in the US. Every person pointed out the fictitious Call of Duty and other xBox game guns.

This is why others get so frustrated over these discussions. Everyone freaking out and they have no clue what they are even talking about.

So no, you used the correct terminology with "machine gun". That was correct for the narrative that our politicians and news media pounds into the public's heads. Those are the people I describe above, they have no idea other than what politicians and news media has indoctrinated into the public's minds and they come to these discussions to explain why we need to ban everything.

 

[mrodgers]

I have chosen the ignore option for some posters

You probably won't see this as you've said, but holding your hands over your ears and chanting "nah nah nah nah" isn't going to help anything in a discussion such as this just because you don't like what someone else's opinion is.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Here's what I know about myself. I'm never going to shoot someone who happens to break into my home...because I'll never own a gun.

You and are aren't in disagreement on that already said I didn't own a gun nor would I. You also know darn well I was talking about responses we make. I'm glad you have confidence in what you know you'll do. I don't and I'm going to be honest to say that. You may know that you're going to just unlock your phone and hand it over to them calmly and then again calmly call the police, your insurance company, etc and again I'm glad for that.

These are also not just dumb kids making dumb decisions as in that's the entire demographic of people. Sometimes it is sometimes it isn't. Unfortunately when someone is breaking into your home that is not a detail most even consider, it's a person breaking into their home that's it.

When you spoke of your comments all you did was get upset at the people trying to do what they thought best. A choice neither you nor I agree with but that's what they thought they were doing is best. I disagreed with your portrayal of the dialogue because you spent much more time weaving your comments in and out about the people on your Nextdoor rather than focusing on the crime in the first place which as you mentioned in detail was the cause for the Nextdoor posts to begin with. We all know car thefts are increasingly difficult to combat so I feel for the authorities trying to do things.

I'm not in the least defending the people you're talking about on Nextdoor and escalation such as what they are talking about isn't what I would deem appropriate either. I'm saying your focus was very narrowly on this and discussing ways that someone shouldn't put their keys on the counter inside their own home in case someone decides to break in. If your point is about reducing gun violence the better focus IMO is not on people opting to purchase guns to defend themselves (that's their rationale for doing so at least by your own words) but rather on what actions and incidents are causing this because no one should ever have to encounter being robbed at gunpoint or have someone come into their home with a gun to rob them.

As far as children getting access if you have paid attention to any of the conversations I've been in with respects to this it is one of the main things I champion for because I absolutely despise when a child gets access to a gun and I wish we had harsher actions towards the individuals who allow that to happen. Only a few weeks ago on OP Live (which is really Live PD) there was a young kid waiving a gun around outside the door of his apartment while the father was asleep in the apartment, when neighbors called the police and the police came initially he denied having a gun at all, ring video from neighbors shows otherwise, the father had hid the gun from the police and subsequently was arrested. Yeah it's sickening when stuff like that happens. And that child could have killed themselves or someone else as there was a bullet in the chamber. This was just a hand gun too.

Some of what you're talking about is not the same conversation you and I were having so I'm sure you were just airing your grievances with the topic but don't assume I feel differently than you just because I disagreed with you about your Nextdoor discussion.

 

[AppleDumpling]

The other assumption is that anyone who states they have a firearm at home, it is assumed that they are going to wake up, grab their gun, and start blazing away at every noise. That is pretty silly how everyone thinks this.

I’m not assuming anything. Can you explain why you keep a loaded gun in your home? You never answered my earlier question. And why your friends/colleagues own many (dozens? hundreds?) of guns? Do you live in a high crime area? I’m honestly trying to understand the mindset.

This is why others get so frustrated over these discussions. Everyone freaking out and they have no clue what they are even talking about.

You’re right, I don’t know anything about guns. I know that way too many people are murdered by guns in this country, and I consider that a huge problem in need of a solution. IMO, it’s a disgrace that our politics, history, and culture allow this to happen, with no end in sight. The majority of Americans favor more restrictive gun laws. The majority of Americans do NOT own guns. And yet here we are. So yes, it is frustrating.

 

[TAX GUY]

I’m not assuming anything. Can you explain why you keep a loaded gun in your home? You never answered my earlier question. And why your friends/colleagues own many (dozens? hundreds?) of guns? Do you live in a high crime area? I’m honestly trying to understand the mindset.

Most gun owners keep their hand gun loaded, even while in storage. Some may even keep them with one in the chamber too. It's done for the ready. When seconds count, to potentially save your or your family members own life, most criminals won't wait for you to call a time out to then get ready. Since the car analogy has been used earlier, it's like keeping gas in your car, so you're ready to go at any time. You wouldn't store the gas in cans and then put it into the car when you're ready to go, similar applies to loading a gun..... for the ready. Some people don't drive, just like some people don't have guns, personal choice. No one asks why I have more than car, so why does it matter why I have more than one gun?

 

[CdnCarrie]

Most gun owners keep their hand gun loaded, even while in storage. Some may even keep them with one in the chamber too. It's done for the ready. When seconds count, to potentially save your or your family members own life, most criminals won't wait for you to call a time out to then get ready. Since the car analogy has been used earlier, it's like keeping gas in your car, so you're ready to go at any time. You wouldn't store the gas in cans and then put it into the car when you're ready to go, similar applies to loading a gun..... for the ready. Some people don't drive, just like some people don't have guns, personal choice. No one asks why I have more than car, so why does it matter why I have more than one gun?

Have you thought about moving to a safer neighbourhood? Must be exhausting to worry constantly about your family's safety.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Poverty. Teenagers generally don't start jacking cars for organized crime rings or risking their lives as the foot soldiers of drug operations if they have access to opportunity and hope for the future.

But that's another problem where we've tried nothing and are all out of ideas.

The seven teens involved in the weed deal where they killed the 19 year old? None were living in poverty. The 18 year who brought his gun to school in his backpack (where he attended one of the top 5 high schools in the whole state) and was called to the admin where he ended up shooting the assistant principal and the SRO officer (who shot the kid in response) was not living in poverty. I do agree that poverty but just low income in general stunts your opportunities but the environment also interacts including family situations and also things like impressions towards others (such as street cred with your peers without actually being in a street gang or anywhere near that).

There is gang violence (primarily on the other side of the state line) where low income likely has a bigger impact along with just violence in general such as drive-bys, drug deals, etc. The police have tried things over the years so many things over the years (10 years actually) and most haven't panned out to working. I do believe they are trying a different method right now that started in another state. This is after 2022 became the 2nd deadliest with 171 homicides in the main city in my metro (the one that has the most crime by far) and stats say more than 90% were shot, 2020 was the deadliest at 182 and 2021 is now 3rd at 157. These are the homicides for that city not gun violence in general.

Here's a recent story giving the background for my metro https://www.kansascity.com/news/article269992042.html

I know a lot of people point towards loose gun laws but my experience living in my metro (where both states have similar enough loose gun laws) it's just not this catch all people think.

 

[TAX GUY]

Have you thought about moving to a safer neighbourhood? Must be exhausting to worry constantly about your family's safety.

What makes you think the neighborhood I live in isn't safe? Do criminals only violate "bad" neighborhoods? Your choices for you are your own, just like my choices are mine. Lets not try to undermine the choices that don't align with yours.

 

[AppleDumpling]

Some people don't drive, just like some people don't have guns, personal choice. No one asks why I have more than car, so why does it matter why I have more than one gun?

Sure it’s a personal choice, but one that has catastrophic effects on society as a whole.

No use in debating anymore. I will continue to share my feelings of immense sorrow every time these threads come up again. And hope at some point in the future, somehow, someone will come to their senses and take action to stop this madness.

 

[Praying Colonel]

We live in a country with a constitutional amendment that guarantees the right to possess firearms, and there are hundreds of millions of them. Nothing will change in any significant way unless the 2nd Amendment is revoked and the Government forcibly confiscates firearms. Don't hold your breath.

 

[TAX GUY]

Sure it’s a personal choice, but one that has catastrophic effects on society as a whole.

No use in debating anymore. I will continue to share my feelings of immense sorrow every time these threads come up again. And hope at some point in the future, somehow, someone will come to their senses and take action to stop this madness.

Agreed, air pollution/smog, dependency on foreign countries for oil, fatal accidents and even vehicular homicide are definitely catastrophic events. I do believe the current administration has come forward and said they are really pushing to end fossil fuels and move everything to renewable energy, like electric cars. We'd still have the issues of fatal accidents and vehicular homicide, but one step at a time. Hang in there, they're trying their best.

 

[Dan Murphy]

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/chicago-weekend-shootings-jan-20-to-23/

Over 30 people shot in Chicago this weekend alone. Like in TWO days, more than 30 shot.

Many of them teenagers.

Nothing on national news with these stats, even though they occur week after week. It's like it is just a normal, every day thing that is not worth reporting. Very sad.

Although Chicago, similar to almost all major US cities, has way too many murders, way too much violence, keep in mind Chicago is not in the top 10 US cities with its murder rate. Not that it is a contest. Chicago is pretty far down the murder rate numbers, mid 20s I think.

https://www.wlbt.com/2023/01/07/analysis-second-straight-year-jacksons-homicide-rate-ranks-highest-us-among-major-cities/

 

[Dan Murphy]

Most people here on this thread, and similar others over the months/years, would have enjoyed the old Debate Forum here on the dis. Who here recalls that forum, ending maybe back in 2003 or so?

Here is an entry from the Way Back Machine. You can see the Debate Forum on the right side in the list of forums back in 2001.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010801142753/http://www.disboards.com/forums/

 

[mrodgers]

I’m not assuming anything. Can you explain why you keep a loaded gun in your home? You never answered my earlier question. And why your friends/colleagues own many (dozens? hundreds?) of guns? Do you live in a high crime area? I’m honestly trying to understand the mindset.


You’re right, I don’t know anything about guns. I know that way too many people are murdered by guns in this country, and I consider that a huge problem in need of a solution. IMO, it’s a disgrace that our politics, history, and culture allow this to happen, with no end in sight. The majority of Americans favor more restrictive gun laws. The majority of Americans do NOT own guns. And yet here we are. So yes, it is frustrating.

I can't answer any questions you have of other people. I can say that because I can as far as why I have one in my home. I have no other protection. It's just smart to take your own life into your hands rather than leave it for someone 15-20 miles away in a car with lights. Pretty simple reason it seems to me. And your 2nd paragraph you are just talking points that has been thrown at you over years, decades even, by politicians and news media. No, the majority of Americans don't favor more restrictive gun laws. That is a talking point that no one can show evidence of (I frequent a political forum where this discussion happens in thread after thread after thread with the same people stating the same things that they only get from news media and no actual sources.)

As for our history being a disgrace, I agree. Our history was a disgrace and because of how that disgrace was solved, we founded a new nation and put forth rules against those governing this nation to ensure that disgrace doesn't happen again, or at least the people have a way of protecting themselves from said historical disgrace.

 

[sam_gordon]

That is a talking point that no one can show evidence of

Would that sort of be like this?

Not just look at the object that protects people's lives far more than mass shootings happen.

I asked you shortly after you made the comment for a source and you haven't answered. So where's YOUR evidence?

 

[Disneychick13]

Would that sort of be like this?

I asked you shortly after you made the comment for a source and you haven't answered. So where's YOUR evidence?

I wasn’t the poster but I can help with that….
In 2022 number of mass shooting events- 690
In 2022 number of defensive use events- 1295
source: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls

 

[mrodgers]

Would that sort of be like this?

I asked you shortly after you made the comment for a source and you haven't answered. So where's YOUR evidence?

That is a tough one as it's not a finite number. It's an estimate from the CDC where they use to estimate between 500,000 and something like 3 million times a year a firearm is used as a defensive. Trying to look it up, all I see now is articles stating the CDC changed their numbers to fit the narrative so I no longer have that.

It wasn't statistical because not everything is reported. It's an estimate by the CDC.

The post above with links, it appears to be links on gun violence and perhaps incidents in defense of gun violence rather than firearm defense in general, which would include attempted rape, robbery, defense against violence from knives and pipe wrenches or tire irons or any violence and not just against gun violence.