An interesting look at what happened to the pentagon on 9/11

[pirateeast]

There are other crashes where the black box was not found. I'm unsure if the one at the pentagon was found or not, but it doesn't meen anything if it wasn't.

 

[krissy3483]

Just found this on a 9/11 research site...no idea on how reliable it is

"Flight data recorders (FDRs) record the readings of instruments and positions of the aircraft's control surfaces over time. They are contained in "black boxes" that are designed to survive the worst crashes. The same black boxes also contain the cockpit voice recorders. To date, none of the contents of any of the black boxes have been released to the public, authorities having claimed that all but the recorders on Flight 93 were either not recovered or too damaged to yield data. The black box of Flight 77 was allegedly found on September 14th, but yielded "nothing useful" according to FBI director Robert Mueller."

 

[jenfur]

I do not think they are trying to say it was your government that did this they are saying where is the parts of the supposed airplane 757 that did this.

That is EXACTLY what they are saying, it was the government or it was the jews. They are freaks, they think the Gov. or Jews blew up the WTC with remote aircraft, then Guilani burned down and blew up a few more, they even go on to say McVeigh didn't blow up the Federal Building years ago. These nuts go looking for crap to say the government is up to. There are plenty of photographs of debris, inside the building and out, you just have to WANT to find it. Search for Flight 77 debris and ignore propaganda sites, look at the sites involving the rescue dogs involved and you can see inside pics. Here is a good re-enactment showing why you won't find huge pieces of debris:

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html

please scroll down and watch the re-enactment its fascinating.

Heres some more info:
http://michaelgriffith1.tripod.com/refute.htm

People who believe this want to believe the government is always out to get EVERYBODY. But really, in this day and age when Clinton can't even have private use of the oval office do you REALLY think they could pull of this huge conspiracy without someone getting caught or saying too much?

When I finished my research and handed it over to my family I also said that If they read through the information and still believed that 9-11 was a hoax created by the government, then "I have to believe you have no interest in the truth.
I also believe that you are not only being mislead, but are anti-American and should not wear any symbols of this country or shed tears over the lives lost in defending it.
It may be a harsh thing to say BUT to believe the lunatic ranting of a few anti-Americans is naive and insulting to all of those who lost their lives on 9-11 and those now serving and dying for our country.
For all of the JFK, UFO, Area 51, Contrails, Militia-men, Oklahoma City bombing theories I have heard, this one is by far the most outlandish and angering one."

They were not happy, but it just really made me angry that these people were using the victims of 9-11 to fuel their narcissistic
belief that the government is out to get them.

 

[sgtdisney]

Don't you just love these conspiracy theorists? We have a couple eyewitnesses posting right here on this thread, but I guess that isn't enough. I can assure you that as large as the 757 is, it will disintegrate upon impact when it is slammed against a fortified building at speeds of over 400 miles per hour. Parts of the plane were found and have been photographed. There is one picture out there of an engine. One that is too large to belong to a small commuter plane or especially a fighter. Here is one picture here.

This is a picture of a wheelhub inside the pentagon.

Here is a picture of a wheel hub from a whole 757

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm has more information.

Looks pretty similar. If I find the picture of the engine I will post it, but then again it is probably a waste of time because usually people who chose to believe this ugly 'theory' can't be convinced, even with hard evidence.

Jenfur, you are right. This 'theory' is all about trying to prove that our government was involved in some horrible plan to allow us to go to war in the middle east and get the cost of oil lowered. I have also seen the website for the DVD you mentioned, and it is a joke. To imply some of the things that they are is horrible. Things like saying that those weren't commercial jets that crashed into the WTC, that the US government flew those jets to a remote location and killed the pax and crew and destroyed the jets, etc. So crazy.

What an awful way to try to sully the memories of those that were lost on 9/11 and disrespect the worst day in the history of the USA.

 

[poohandwendy]

Originally posted by LisaSt
There should be some recognisable parts left from a plane that large even with the fuel load etc it would have left some parts lage enough to make out what they were.

Lisa, I am wondering what credentials you, personally, have to make an assumption of what 'should' happen to an airplane upon impact?

Yes but didn't they say they found the black boxes from the planes that hit the towers and that fire or those fires were supposedly burning hotter than the Pentagon fire but no word on the black box there.

Lisa, at least research this before insulting us all here with your misinformation. A very quick internet search will show you that both black boxes (flight data and cockpit voice recorders) were found (within a few days) from the plane that hit the Pentagon.

 

[LisaSt]

Actually it is her hubby not Lisa LOL. Secondly what makes me know what should happen and what shouldn't the fact that I have worked numerous airshows and have witnessed many a crash at these shows mind you all smaller planes but still a very resounding impact and discovery from the crash sites. Now no this doesn't make me an expert but I do have first hand knowledge of what a crash site looks like and the debris left behind like the plane slamming into a large building at one airshow I was working at as security and ground gontrol. We were the first on scene let me tell you it was not pretty but I do know what I had seen and there was large pieces of the plane. As for the black box I had not heard they found it/them so that was just a miss information I really didn't follow the whole thing much I wasn't even aware of it happening untill 2:30 in the afternoon the day it happened. I am not out to make anyone think the GOV did it or had a hand in it I just like to look at other possabilities is all.

 

[poohandwendy]

Now no this doesn't make me an expert but I do have first hand knowledge of what a crash site looks like and the debris left behind like the plane slamming into a large building at one airshow I was working at as security and ground gontrol. We were the first on scene let me tell you it was not pretty but I do know what I had seen and there was large pieces of the plane.

Surely you have been around long enough to know that not all similar situations end with the same result?

While you are looking at 'other possibilities', has it occured to you that there were thousands of eyewitnesses to the Pentagon crash? Some from inside the Pentagon, some right here in these boards, some on the streets and nearby buildings. Hundreds of them publicly stated that they saw a LARGE commercial airplane crash into the building. Many of them describe the actual type of plane and the carrier. What plausible explanation could dispute that? Were they all hallucinating? Were they all paid off? Lying?

I really didn't follow the whole thing much I wasn't even aware of it happening untill 2:30 in the afternoon the day it happened.

Then I can see why you would believe a conspiracy theory 3 years after the fact. Many of us very closely followed this story in the hours, days and months after.

I imagine you would be pretty insulted if someone was investigating the airshow crashes you witnessed and said they 'couldn't have happened' the way you saw. That they weren't even airplanes or something equally ridiculous.

The site you have posted with it's theories of what ''really'' happened is grossly inaccurate and misleading. I suggest you personally research the events and come to your own conclusion.

 

[MickeyCrazed]

What web site did this propaganda originate from?

 

[LisaSt]

My conclusion on what happened is that is was a very large tragedy no matter what anyone says and we will all have our own ideas as to what we feel are correct and incorrect. Some will say it is a government coverup some will not some will follow others like sheep and some will not. It is great to have our own opinions about things and if someone was to tell me that what happened at the air show wasn't what I had wintnessed then that is all well and good for them they can have thier opinion like I said we are all entitled to them some differ from others just like this. I do not see how that makes anyone a bad person or mis informed people can have all the fact they could ever want or comprehend it doesn't mean they will follow what is laid out and told to them.

 

[cynsaun]

When those jets slammed into the WTC and the Pentagon, they were flying at more or less, 300 miles per hour. The planes you describe seeing at airshows do not generally fly at those speeds, besides the fact they are miniscule compared to the size of a 757, 767, or 747. You have to remember that these jets carry thousands of gallons of jet fuel in the wings, and when these airplanes flew into the side of the buildings, they acted as missles. The jet fuel burning and the tremendous heat of approximately 2500 degrees simply put disintergrated the airplane.

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by LisaSt
Secondly what makes me know what should happen and what shouldn't the fact that I have worked numerous airshows and have witnessed many a crash at these shows mind you all smaller planes but still a very resounding impact and discovery from the crash sites.

There is a big difference between a small plane hitting a regular building at approach, take off, or the lower speeds used in airshows than a plane weighing 60+ tons slamming into a concrete and steel reinforced building that had recently undergone an extensive reinforcement project at between 400 and 500 miles per hour. That is why there are large aircraft peices left when a commercial jet crashes on take off or landing and nothing left if it were to slam into the ground at full speed.

I am probably wasting my time here thought. You have eyewitness acounts, you have expert testminony, you even have pictures showing pieces of the plane in the building. If none of that convinces you, I am sure, nothing will.

 

[poohandwendy]

I do not see how that makes anyone a bad person or mis informed people can have all the fact they could ever want or comprehend it doesn't mean they will follow what is laid out and told to them.

I don't think anyone is saying you or anyone else is a bad person. Misinformed, heck yeah. The FACTS can prove that. Ironically, you seemed to believe (without doing any personal research) what was laid out and told to you...from a site that is suggesting a conspiracy.

 

[MickeyCrazed]

Shoot - I forgot to add...
I have a hard time believing a video that has their facts wrong in the very first sentence of thier bull crap movie.
It says the Pentagon was hit at 8:38 a.m. What time zone were they in?
I distinctly remember it being after 9:00.

 

[phamton]

Originally posted by LisaSt
what makes me know what should happen and what shouldn't the fact that I have worked numerous airshows and have witnessed many a crash at these shows mind you all smaller planes but still a very resounding impact and discovery from the crash sites. Now no this doesn't make me an expert but I do have first hand knowledge of what a crash site looks like

There is always the risk of drawing a false conclusion based on what snopes.com labels as "a random sample of one." Though the conclusions you have reached may well be entirely valid for your "one," they cannot be reasonably relied upon to apply equally as well across the group.

Just remember that the plural of data is not anecdotes.

 

[LisaSt]

Oh I am not saying concretley that what I had posted is actually what happened but it is another option. I like to look at things from every perspective some may not be what others agree with and that is great because it allows us to discuss them on here in an open forum and suprisingly it has been very civil thanks everyone Iknow sometimes these things can get very out of hand. I appreciate everyones point of view on the subject and have looked up many different sites etc dealing with the whole 9/11 thing and there are some missconceptions on all of them so I will put together the pieces I like to think happened just like you and others will follow bits and pieces of different accounts as your view on the whole thing. Like I had said earlier we will never truly kknow what went on until the entire thing is released to the public then and only then will we have a view of what truly happened. I think it will be a very long time coming before all the evidence is truly released though.

 

[LisaSt]

Mickeycrazed maybe they are from the central time zone which would be roughly not that they had the exact time correct but it would put them an hour behind un in the Eastern time zone.

 

[poohandwendy]

LOL, no matter what time zone they are in, they are WAY off. So, if they cannot get that one small fact correct, why should we take any of it seriously?

 

[Loubon]

Originally posted by LisaSt
Oh I am not saying concretley that what I had posted is actually what happened but it is another option.

Oh yeah? Then perhaps you should look at the title you gave this thread. It says what happened. Not what might have happened or another option.

You claim you like to look at other alternatives. Why? What would motivate you to do so with such an obvious attack?

You claim you don't blame the government yet you claim all the evidence is not forthcoming. From who then?

You claim to be on the east coast (you say like us) yet the day this happened you didn't even hear about it for 5 hours???? And now you're interested in what happened? Guess you weren't very interested as the horror unfolded for the whole world to see as it happened. (now be sure to give me some lame excuse why you were out of touch).

And as always, community board or not, I guess a Disney board is the first place I'd come to to discuss such a thing.

You're right, you are entitled to your opinion. And I am entitled to mine. And that is that you took a very emotional matter and disrepected it one week before it's 3 year anniversary. I hope you enjoy the emotions and controversy you have stirred (which I'm sure you will reply was not your intent ) but I for one am finished with this garbage. I hope the rest of the DISers will follow suit.

 

[JessetheCowgirl]

Originally posted by Loubon
Oh yeah? Then perhaps you should look at the title you gave this thread. It says what happened. Not what might have happened or another option.

You claim you like to look at other alternatives. Why? What would motivate you to do so with such an obvious attack?

You claim you don't blame the government yet you claim all the evidence is not forthcoming. From who then?

You claim to be on the east coast (you say like us) yet the day this happened you didn't even hear about it for 5 hours???? And now you're interested in what happened? Guess you weren't very interested as the horror unfolded for the whole world to see as it happened. (now be sure to give me some lame excuse why you were out of touch).

And as always, community board or not, I guess a Disney board is the first place I'd come to to discuss such a thing.

You're right, you are entitled to your opinion. And I am entitled to mine. And that is that you took a very emotional matter and disrepected it one week before it's 3 year anniversary. I hope you enjoy the emotions and controversy you have stirred (which I'm sure you will reply was not your intent ) but I for one am finished with this garbage. I hope the rest of the DISers will follow suit.

Thank you, Lou!! You summed it up nicely.

 

[LisaSt]

Actually Loubon the day it happened we were in the car on our wat to Toronto to the lottery office to pick up our money from our winning ticket. We do not listen to the radio in the car only CD's. The title of the thread was an interesting look at what happened not look at what happened. We live in Ontario Canada and are between Detroit and Toronto yest int he Eastern time zone. When we got to Toronto and went in to the lottery office we still had not heard about what happened. We found out when my mother called us in the car that afternoon. My oldest daughter asked why we hadn't seen any planes taking off or landing at the Toronto airport which you can see fromt he 401 as you drive into Toronto. I told her maybe they are not having any shceduled flights till later on as we didn't know about it at that time. I actually got the link from a motorcycle website I belong to and though it was interesting to see so I posted it here for discussion as I know some people like to have a debate style discussion over things. Sorry you took offence to this but hey we are all allowed an opinion. also if you look at the thread that Esmerelda posted abvout what were you doing during 9/11 I think it is it will give you a full account of my day and what we were doing and that was posted before I posted this just in case you were thinking I was trying to cover anything up LOL.


Darren