An Inconvenient Truth...

The reviews of Day After Tomorrow ALL said that it was completely bogus science. If you want to know facts about global warming, google some scientific journal articles. leave the Hollywood treatments for entertainment.
 
So, all your opinions on global warming are based on facts presented in two movies that are complete fiction?

rotflmbo, no and I missed the part where I said any such thing. I just feel that they are a good place to start to spark some interest on the subject was all.

And Day After is quite OBVIOUSLY a fictional movie. That was my sarcastic voice. Apparently the reality of Tsunami's, snow in countries that have never seen it and numerous hurricanes and tornados is not enough 'proof' for some, so I thought a *hollywoodized* example might be better to make.

As for global warming "supposedly" being bogus - just remember - the Titanic wasn't "suppose" to sink...
 
Apparently the reality of Tsunami's, snow in countries that have never seen it and numerous hurricanes and tornados is not enough 'proof' for some, so I thought a *hollywoodized* example might be better to make.

What countries have experienced snow that never have before?
 

rotflmbo, no and I missed the part where I said any such thing. I just feel that they are a good place to start to spark some interest on the subject was all.

You suggested these 2 movies as way to become more informed about global warming. You obviously agree with the information in these movies.


And Day After is quite OBVIOUSLY a fictional movie. That was my sarcastic voice. Apparently the reality of Tsunami's, snow in countries that have never seen it and numerous hurricanes and tornados is not enough 'proof' for some, so I thought a *hollywoodized* example might be better to make.

Snow in which countries? And there have been no increases in extreme weather events in the last century, and no forcast that it will increase anytime soon.




As for global warming "supposedly" being bogus - just remember - the Titanic wasn't "suppose" to sink...


:confused3
 
/
Give me a break. For every scientist that says there is man-made global warming there is another that says its BS. The Earth has heated up and cooled down since the beginning of time in different cycles. Its not because all of a sudden in the 20th and 21st century theres a few automobiles putting around. Mt. St. Ellens Volcano caused more problems and green house gases than a billion cars. Man is not causing warming to any extent other than completely negligible. If there is any warming (which is also disputed) its not because of anything man is doing.

This is the same argument that "if we can just cause enough green house gases on Mars, we can terraform it." PAAAleeessss. That is a total fantasy.

Don't worry about it people, as long as there isn't a global nuclear war, cars and power plants are not going to do anything to the planet. So smoke up.
 
In time, some folks on this thread will be able to say "I told you so." I only HOPE it will be those who think global warming is a fabrication. I'll be more than happy to say I was wrong!!
 
Snow in which countries? And there have been no increases in extreme weather events in the last century, and no forcast that it will increase anytime soon.

My mistake, I should have said 'countries that rarely have snow', sorry. I notice that no one disagreed with my point of Tsunami's and hurricanes though.

You suggested these 2 movies as way to become more informed about global warming. You obviously agree with the information in these movies.

Yes, I agree with SOME of the information in these movies. I maintain that they are great resources on global warming. I personally don't believe what we do makes all that much of a difference, but I do believe that global warming is real and is happening. But then again, I believe in life on other planets too.

As for the Titanic reference - my only point was - never say never.
 
I notice that no one disagreed with my point of Tsunami's and hurricanes though.

I did. Tsunamis and hurricanes would fall under the extreme weather events I was referring to. Events that have not increased over the last century.
 
Well then, too bad neither of us will be around in the next century to see if these extreme weather events continue.

Eventually our time on earth will end. And while I don't feel hybrid cars and the like will stop global warming from happening, I do believe global warming is inevitable. However, something very well may wipe out our existence long before then anyhow.
 
Mt. St. Ellens Volcano caused more problems and green house gases than a billion cars. Man is not causing warming to any extent other than completely negligible. If there is any warming (which is also disputed) its not because of anything man is doing.


...I want to know where Mt. St. Ellens is...
... what in the world does "man is not causing warming to any extent other than completely negligible" mean?
...and, otherwise, just *sigh*
 
For every scientist that says there is man-made global warming there is another that says its BS.


That is not true. The vast majority of scientist belive that global warming is caused by a big percentage , by man made CO2 emission. They might not agree exactly how this will translate as far as the speed of the repercussion or the amount of repercussion , but agree that there will be important repercution for humankind.

The one who think it is BS are a minority, but are supported by well oiled and very rich organisation:



"For years, a network of fake citizens' groups and bogus scientific bodies has been claiming that science of global warming is inconclusive. They set back action on climate change by a decade. But who funded them? Exxon's involvement is well known, but not the strange role of Big Tobacco. In the first of three extracts from his new book, George Monbiot tells a bizarre and shocking new story

Tuesday September 19, 2006
The Guardian


ExxonMobil is the world's most profitable corporation. Its sales now amount to more than $1bn a day. It makes most of this money from oil, and has more to lose than any other company from efforts to tackle climate change. To safeguard its profits, ExxonMobil needs to sow doubt about whether serious action needs to be taken on climate change. But there are difficulties: it must confront a scientific consensus as strong as that which maintains that smoking causes lung cancer or that HIV causes Aids. So what's its strategy?

The website Exxonsecrets.org, using data found in the company's official documents, lists 124 organisations that have taken money from the company or work closely with those that have. These organisations take a consistent line on climate change: that the science is contradictory, the scientists are split, environmentalists are charlatans, liars or lunatics, and if governments took action to prevent global warming, they would be endangering the global economy for no good reason. The findings these organisations dislike are labelled "junk science". The findings they welcome are labelled "sound science".

Among the organisations that have been funded by Exxon are such well-known websites and lobby groups as TechCentralStation, the Cato Institute and the Heritage Foundation. Some of those on the list have names that make them look like grassroots citizens' organisations or academic bodies: the Centre for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change, for example. One or two of them, such as the Congress of Racial Equality, are citizens' organisations or academic bodies, but the line they take on climate change is very much like that of the other sponsored groups. While all these groups are based in America, their publications are read and cited, and their staff are interviewed and quoted, all over the world.

By funding a large number of organisations, Exxon helps to create the impression that doubt about climate change is widespread. For those who do not understand that scientific findings cannot be trusted if they have not appeared in peer-reviewed journals, the names of these institutes help to suggest that serious researchers are challenging the consensus.

This is not to claim that all the science these groups champion is bogus. On the whole, they use selection, not invention. They will find one contradictory study - such as the discovery of tropospheric cooling, which, in a garbled form, has been used by Peter Hitchens in the Mail on Sunday - and promote it relentlessly. They will continue to do so long after it has been disproved by further work. So, for example, John Christy, the author of the troposphere paper, admitted in August 2005 that his figures were incorrect, yet his initial findings are still being circulated and championed by many of these groups, as a quick internet search will show you."

From:http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,1875762,00.html


And

"Prominent Skeptics Organizations

Global Climate Coalition

Founded in 1989 by 46 corporations and trade associations representing all major elements of US industry, the GCC presents itself as a "voice for business in the global warming debate." The group funded several flawed studies on the economics of the cost of mitigating climate change, which formed the basis of their 1997/1998 multi-million dollar advertising campaign against the Kyoto Protocol. The GCC began to unravel in 1997 when British Petroleum withdrew its membership. Since then many other corporations have followed BP s lead and left the coalition. This exodus reached a fevered pitch in the early months of 2000 when DaimlerChrysler, Texaco and General Motors all announced their exodus from the GCC. Since these desertions, the GCC restructured and remains a powerful and well-funded force focused on obstructing meaningful efforts to mitigate climate change.

Spin: Global Warming is real, but it is too expensive to do anything about. The Kyoto Protocol is fundamentally flawed.

Funding: Corporate members (industries, trade associations etc.)

George Marshall Institute

This conservative think tank shifted its focus from Star Wars to climate change in the late 1980s. In 1989, the Marshall Institute released a report claiming that "cyclical variations in the intensity of the sun would offset any climate change associated with elevated greenhouse gases." Though refuted by the IPCC, the report was very influential in influencing the Bush Sr. Administration s climate change policy. The Marshall Institute has since published numerous reports downplaying the severity of global climate change.

Spin: Blame the Sun. The Kyoto Protocol is fatally flawed.

Affiliated Individuals: Sallie Baliunas, an astrophysicist from Harvard; and Frederick Seitz.

Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine

The Marshall Institute co-sponsored with the OISM a deceptive campaign -- known as the Petition Project -- to undermine and discredit the scientific authority of the IPCC and to oppose the Kyoto Protocol. Early in the spring of 1998, thousands of scientists around the country received a mass mailing urging them to sign a petition calling on the government to reject the Kyoto Protocol. The petition was accompanied by other pieces including an article formatted to mimic the journal of the National Academy of Sciences. Subsequent research revealed that the article had not been peer-reviewed, nor published, nor even accepted for publication in that journal and the Academy released a strong statement disclaiming any connection to this effort and reaffirming the reality of climate change. The Petition resurfaced in 2001.

Spin: There is no scientific basis for claims about global warming. IPCC is a hoax. Kyoto is flawed.

Funding: Petition was funded by private sources.

Affiliated Individuals: Arthur B. Robinson, Sallie L. Baliunas, Frederick Seitz


Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP)

Founded in 1990 by widely publicized climate skeptic S. Fred Singer, SEPP s stated purpose is to "document the relationship between scientific data and the development of federal environmental policy." SEPP has mounted a sizeable media campaign -- publishing articles, letters to the editor, and a large number of press releases -- to discredit the issues of global warming, ozone depletion, and acid rain.

Spin: Moreover, climate change won t be bad for us anyway. Action on climate change is not warranted because of shaky science and flawed policy approaches.

Funding: Conservative foundations including Bradley, Smith Richardson, and Forbes. SEPP has also been directly tied to ultra right-wing mogul Reverend Sung Myung Moon s Unification Church, including receipt of a year s free office space from a Moon-funded group and the participation of SEPP s director in church-sponsored conferences and on the board of a Moon-funded magazine.

Affiliated Individuals:S. Fred Singer,Frederick Seitz


Greening Earth Society

The Greening Earth Society (GES) was founded on Earth Day 1998 by the Western Fuels Association to promote the view that increasing levels of atmospheric CO2 are good for humanity. GES and Western Fuels are essentially the same organization. Both used to be located at the same office suite in Arlington, VA. Until December 2000, Fred Palmer chaired both institutions. The GES is now chaired by Bob Norrgard, another long-term Western Fuels associate. The Western Fuels Assocation (WFA) is a cooperative of coal-dependent utilities in the western states that works in part to discredit climate change science and to prevent regulations that might damage coal-related industries.


Spin: CO2 emissions are good for the planet; coal is the best energy source we have.

Affiliated Individuals: Patrick Michaels, Robert Balling, David Wojick, Sallie Baliunas, Sylvan Wittwer, John Daley, Sherwood Idso

Funding: The Greening Earth Society receives its funding from the Western Fuels Association, which in turn receives its funding from its coal and utility company members.


Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide & Global Change

The Center claims to "disseminate factual reports and sound commentary on new developments in the world-wide scientific quest to determine the climactic and biological consequences of the ongoing rise in the air's CO2 content." The Center is led by two brothers, Craig and Keith Idso. Their father, Sherwood Idso, is affiliated with the Greening Earth Society; the Center also shares a board member (Sylvan Wittwer) with GES. Both Idso brothers have been on the Western Fuels payroll at one time or another.

Spin: Increased levels of CO2 will help plants, and that's good.

Funding: The Center is extremely secretive of its funding sources, stating that it is their policy not to divulge it funders. There is evidence for a strong connection to the Greening Earth Society (ergo Western Fuels Association)."


From:http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/skeptic-organizations.html
 
I don't understand those who criticize people who's only want is just to conserve the resources of this planet so that our great grandkids can still have an earth to call home. Anyone who doesn't want to squeeze every enviornment to the breaking point, usually for the benefit of some industry profit, is called a tree hugging kook. No one can work together to find a compromise if one group refuses to even acknowledge there is a problem.
 
Eventually our time on earth will end. And while I don't feel hybrid cars and the like will stop global warming from happening, I do believe global warming is inevitable.

The one thing predictable about the Earth is it's unpredictable. We know her past history, we can not predict, with anything remotely accurate, her future. The earth was once covered in a lot of lava. All the land was connected. Then it was covered by a lot of ice.

However, something very well may wipe out our existence long before then anyhow.

Like an asteroid.
 
Just as a side note....tsunami's are not weather events....they are caused
by seismic events.


OK, back to the discussion
 
The Earth has heated up and cooled down since the beginning of time in different cycles. Its not because all of a sudden in the 20th and 21st century theres a few automobiles putting around. Mt. St. Ellens Volcano caused more problems and green house gases than a billion cars. Man is not causing warming to any extent other than completely negligible. If there is any warming (which is also disputed) its not because of anything man is doing.

You might want to do a little bit of research.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002105397_volcano01m.html

Mount St. Helens the state's No. 1 air polluter

By Sandi Doughton
Seattle Times staff reporter


Environmentalists hooted when Ronald Reagan claimed — wrongly — that trees produce more pollution than cars.
But right now, the biggest single source of air pollution in Washington isn't a power plant, pulp mill or anything else created by man.

It's a volcano.

Since Mount St. Helens started erupting in early October, it has been pumping out between 50 and 250 tons a day of sulfur dioxide, the lung-stinging gas that causes acid rain and contributes to haze.

Those emissions are so high that if the volcano was a new factory, it probably couldn't get a permit to operate, said Clint Bowman, an atmospheric physicist for the Washington Department of Ecology.

All of the state's industries combined produce about 120 tons a day of the noxious gas.

The volcano has even pulled ahead of the coal-fired power plant near Centralia that is normally the state's top air polluter. In the mid-1990s, when the facility's emission rate was about 200 tons a day, regulators pressed for $250 million in pollution controls to bring it down to today's level of 27 tons.

Government doesn't wield much power over a volcano, though.

"You can't put a cork in it," said Greg Nothstein, of the Washington Energy Policy Office.

Because the area around St. Helens is so sparsely populated, officials say they haven't heard complaints about respiratory problems linked to the emissions. But if the volcano were right next to Seattle or Portland, some of the most sensitive residents would probably feel the effects, said Bob Elliott, executive director of the Southwest Clean Air Agency in Vancouver.

"We are very fortunate, in terms of the impact on human health, that Mount St. Helens is pretty remote."

Italy's Mount Etna can produce 100 times more sulfur dioxide than Mount St. Helens — and sits in the middle of a heavily populated area. The volcano spawns acid rain and a type of bluish smog that volcanologists call vog, which can affect large swaths of Europe, said Terry Gerlach, a U.S. Geological Survey scientist who studies volcanic gases.

Kilauea Volcano on Hawaii's Big Island churns out 2,000 tons a day of sulfur dioxide when it's erupting, creating an acid fog that damages local crops. The 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines blew out so much of the gas that the resulting haze spread around the globe and lowered average surface temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere by nearly one degree.

Some localized impacts are probably occurring on a much smaller scale near St. Helens' crater, Gerlach said.

"If you were to go and collect rainwater just downwind of the volcano, I suspect you would see some acid rain."

Worldwide, sulfur dioxide emissions from volcanoes add up to about 15 million tons a year, compared to the 200 million tons produced by power plants and other human activities.
While the fraction due to volcanoes is small, it can have an impact, Gerlach said.

"You can't call it trivial, compared with human activity."

Volcanic gases bubble out of magma as it rises to the surface, and the amount and type of emissions depend on the chemical makeup of the molten rock. In addition to sulfur dioxide, volcanoes also release smaller amounts of other noxious gases, including hydrogen sulfide and hydrogen chloride.

And they churn out large quantities of carbon dioxide. Though not considered an air pollutant, carbon dioxide is the so-called greenhouse gas that's primarily blamed for global warming.

Compared to man-made sources, though, volcanoes' contribution to climate change is minuscule, Gerlach said.

Mount St. Helens produces between 500 and 1,000 tons a day of carbon dioxide, he estimates.

Nothstein, of the state energy office, says the Centralia coal plant puts out about 28,000 tons a day. Statewide, automobiles, industries, and residential and business heating systems emit nearly 10 times that amount.

On a global scale, the difference is even more dramatic, said Gerlach, who often gets calls from power-plant operators and oil-company executives who believe nature is just as responsible for global warming as man. His answer always disappoints them.

"I tell them the amounts don't even come close and I usually never hear from them again."

Worldwide, people and their activities pump 26 billion tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, he said. The total from volcanoes is about 200 million tons a year — or less than 1 percent of the man-made emissions.

The irony of being surpassed by a volcano on the state's pollution source list hasn't escaped the folks at the Centralia power plant, owned by the Canadian firm TransAlta.

"I hope they're going to call Mother Nature and have her put some scrubbers on there," joked company spokesman Richard DeBolt.

In a way, that will happen, said Bowman, the Ecology Department atmospheric scientist.

As wet winter storms sweep through the area, the rainwater acts as a natural scrubber, washing the sulfur dioxide from the air.

And once the volcano stops erupting, the gas emissions will vaporize — but geologists say the current lava flows could continue for months, or even years.

Sandi Doughton: 206-464-2491

or sdoughton@seattletimes.com
 
Just as a side note....tsunami's are not weather events....they are caused
by seismic events.


OK, back to the discussion

http://environment.about.com/od/globalwarming/a/earthquakes.htm


Geologists Say Global Warming Expected to Cause Many New Seismic Events
Climatologists have been raising alarms about global warming for years, and now geologists are getting into the act, warning that melting glaciers will lead to an increasing number of earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanic eruptions in unexpected places.
People in northern climates who have been looking south and shaking their heads sadly over the plight of people living in the path of Atlantic hurricanes and Pacific tsunamis had better get ready for a few seismic events of their own, according to a growing number of prominent geologists.

Less Glacial Pressure, More Earthquakes and Volcanic Eruptions
Ice is extremely heavy—weighing about one ton per cubic meter—and glaciers are massive sheets of ice. When they are intact, glaciers exert enormous pressure on the portion of the Earth’s surface they cover.

When glaciers begin to melt—as they are doing now at an increasingly rapid rate due to global warming—that pressure is reduced and eventually released.
Geologists say releasing that pressure on the Earth’s surface will cause all sorts of geologic reactions, such as earthquakes, tsunamis (caused by undersea earthquakes) and volcanic eruptions.

"What happens is the weight of this thick ice puts a lot of stress on the earth," said Patrick Wu, a geologist at the University of Alberta in Canada, in an interview with the Canadian Press. "The weight sort of suppresses the earthquakes, but when you melt the ice the earthquakes get triggered."

Global Warming Accelerating Geologic Rebound
Wu offered the analogy of pressing a thumb against a soccer ball. When the thumb is removed and the pressure released, the ball resumes its original shape. When the “ball” is a planet, the rebound happens slowly, but just as surely.

Wu said many of the earthquakes that occur in Canada today are related to the ongoing rebound effect that started with the end of the last ice age 10,000 years ago. But with global warming accelerating climate changes and causing glaciers to melt more quickly, Wu said the inevitable rebound is expected to happen much faster this time around.

New Seismic Events Already Happening
Wu said melting ice in Antarctica is already triggering earthquakes and underwater landslides. These events aren’t getting much attention, but they are early warnings of the more serious events that scientists believe are coming. According to Wu, global warming will create “lots of earthquakes.”

Professor Wu is not alone in his assessment.

Writing in New Scientist magazine, Bill McGuire, professor of geological hazards at University College in London, said: "All over the world evidence is stacking up that changes in global climate can and do affect the frequencies of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and catastrophic sea-floor landslides. Not only has this happened several times throughout Earth's history, the evidence suggests it is happening again."
 





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