An Inconvenient Truth...

[Beca]

See I think that going green IS moving forward with progress. If you can cut the amount of packaging, energy, resources needed, etc. that is progress in my eyes. Plus it just makes good business sense.

The amount of packaging is another issue that we need to address. I have reusable zipper bags that I take for my grocery shopping. The grocery clerk and I were talking the other day, and she said that someone had come in from somewhere in Europe and was expressing how much packaging products in the US come with. She said in her country (the clerk didn't know exactly where...just Europe), the trash trucks had scales installed, and you were billed by the weight of your trash. So, people began to go to the stores and purchase products, take them out of the packaging, and throw the packaging in trash cans at the store. So, stores started having to pay more for trash services. So the stores went to the manufacturers and said, "If you want to place your products in our stores, you need to start putting them in minimal packaging. As a result, most products now come with VERY little "extra" packaging. As a mom of a little girl, I can tell you that we had SOOOO much trash after Christmas. I wish manufacturers of products sold in America would package with minimal packaging as well.

 

[Charade]

See I think that going green IS moving forward with progress. If you can cut the amount of packaging, energy, resources needed, etc. that is progress in my eyes. Plus it just makes good business sense.

I agree (would someone tell my company that they shouldn't use a box measuring 12x18x24 to ship me a teeny weeny spare part?).

But if there is a 10 year break even point switching to a hybird fleet (without government breaks) and you replace the fleet every 5 years, that's not good business sense. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

 

[Charade]

Sorry, I misunderstood the report I heard tonight. 2006 was the warmest year on record for the US. Here's the link:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/scienceandsociety/2007/01/warmer.html

That's not what I meant. The recorded history of average annual temps is a insignificant blip on the Earth's life.

 

[Charade]

The amount of packaging is another issue that we need to address. I have reusable zipper bags that I take for my grocery shopping. The grocery clerk and I were talking the other day, and she said that someone had come in from somewhere in Europe and was expressing how much packaging products in the US come with. She said in her country (the clerk didn't know exactly where...just Europe), the trash trucks had scales installed, and you were billed by the weight of your trash. So, people began to go to the stores and purchase products, take them out of the packaging, and throw the packaging in trash cans at the store. So, stores started having to pay more for trash services. So the stores went to the manufacturers and said, "If you want to place your products in our stores, you need to start putting them in minimal packaging. As a result, most products now come with VERY little "extra" packaging. As a mom of a little girl, I can tell you that we had SOOOO much trash after Christmas. I wish manufacturers of products sold in America would package with minimal packaging as well.

This can and should be done. You'll get no argument from me. However, I'm always leary of the government getting involved with things like this and mandating anything because they usually screw it up.

Some local communities provide trash service and you buy the bags from them. The more trash you have, the more you pay. However, most private trash haulers have flat rates. Not much incentive to reduce your trash.

 

[Beth76]

The amount of packaging is another issue that we need to address.

Oh you're not kidding. I just ordered the Guitar Hero game for PS2 for DH. It comes in a long thin box because it has a guitar in it. The box that it was packaged in was easily more than double the size of the game box. And then of course all that extra space was filled with more cardboard and those airbags.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Charade;16322800]This can and should be done. You'll get no argument from me. However, I'm always leary of the government getting involved with things like this and mandating anything because they usually screw it up.

I would rather see this kind of thing happen as a result of consumer demand. If the government does it, it will cost taxpayers $$$$ and it will probably be ineffective. It will also create more waste from the paperwork the government will require!

 

[mrsltg]

Good points!!! Even before we saw the movie, we had made commitments that we would try to be better "global citizens". We purchased our home in the end of Sept. 2006. It was in pretty sad shape. So, we began to set out fixing, repairing and replacing things as we could. Our air conditioners were in REALLY bad shape. We were very hot here last fall, and our electric bill was VERY high because of our old units. We purchased the most efficient units we could afford. We weatherstripped all of our doors, we replaced our old washer/dryer with the new front-loaders that use about 20% of the water, and create their own electricity as they spin. We turned down our hot water heaters and wrapped them in blankets. We changed our light bulbs. We installed programmable thermostats, and made sure that we turned our heat down in the winter and made our temp. warmer in the summer. We installed solar landscape lighting, and make more of an effort to turn off lights when we are not in the room (admittedly, this is a constant battle with our dd who just turned 5).


My point is...with very little changes of non-important "habits", and by embracing newer, greener technologies...we have cut our electricity consumption by half. Will such changes solve ALL of our problems, no way. But maybe it will keep this world in a liveable state until better technologies can be found. It's certainly worth a shot.

I hate to be the wet blanket while you're busy congratualting yourself, but a question comes to mind. What happened to your old air conditioners and washer/dryer units? Unless I am mistaken, these were working appliances that you tossed into a landfill? Interesting....

 

[jrsmom]

We went to see it right before Christmas. I found it to be very powerful and scary. Livinng in New Hampshire it has been so warm this winter ( well, today it is cold ), that I can't believe that we really haven't needed winter coats at all this season so far. I think that there is a lot that can be done however big business is getting in the way because of their profits. Before we can even start to get other countries to change their ways we need do change ours.

There was a report on the news the other day talking about how the tick/insect season will be much worse this year because of the warmer temps this winter. If that is the case we can probably expect more insect born illness.

My 11 year old took almost two pages of notes during the film.

Vickey

 

[Galahad]

tossed into a landfill?

But. From the University of Texas:

Myth Number 4: Our nation is running out of landfill space and there is nowhere to place new ones.

While it is true that the space available for new landfills is scarce, especially so for those in the northeast, this is for the most part a short term problem. Since 1978 the EPA states that more than 14,000 landfills have been closed. However, what this number does not reveal is that a majority of these were open dumps of less than 10 acres in size. In the long run it is best that these sites were closed as their prospective impact as an environmental hazard far outweighed their usefulness as a garbage dump. As late as 1988 70 percent of the active landfills (approx. 6,000) were handling less than 5 percent of the municipal solid waste created annually. In addition, about 8 percent, or close to 500 sites, handled just under 75 percent of the garbage sent to landfills. It is estimated that one landfill 120 feet deep and measuring 44 miles square would adequately handle the needs for the entire nation for the next 100 years.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I don't know about washer and dryers, but we have an Intel office near us that does computer recycling events twice a year. I took a truckload of stuff to the last one. If the donated computers aren't completly useless, they restore them and donate them.
One of our local mission organizations will come and get working appliances and decent furniture to give to people who can't afford them. When my parents moved to Florida, they donated a bunch of stuff that way.

 

[Laura]

The amount of packaging is another issue that we need to address. I have reusable zipper bags that I take for my grocery shopping. The grocery clerk and I were talking the other day, and she said that someone had come in from somewhere in Europe and was expressing how much packaging products in the US come with. She said in her country (the clerk didn't know exactly where...just Europe), the trash trucks had scales installed, and you were billed by the weight of your trash. So, people began to go to the stores and purchase products, take them out of the packaging, and throw the packaging in trash cans at the store. So, stores started having to pay more for trash services. So the stores went to the manufacturers and said, "If you want to place your products in our stores, you need to start putting them in minimal packaging. As a result, most products now come with VERY little "extra" packaging. As a mom of a little girl, I can tell you that we had SOOOO much trash after Christmas. I wish manufacturers of products sold in America would package with minimal packaging as well.

Oh, packaging is insane! Last year I bought a gorillapod (flexible mini tripod) from joby.com and was able to choose buying one without the packaging--it came wrapped in bubble wrap with the manual. It was cheaper that way, I didn't have big tough blister pack to open, and it's less waste!

 

[mrsltg]

I don't know about washer and dryers, but we have an Intel office near us that does computer recycling events twice a year. I took a truckload of stuff to the last one. If the donated computers aren't completly useless, they restore them and donate them.
One of our local mission organizations will come and get working appliances and decent furniture to give to people who can't afford them. When my parents moved to Florida, they donated a bunch of stuff that way.

Right. But if the appliances aren't energy efficient all you've done is use more energy - the new appliance plus the old one.

Of course I think it's great to donate appliances and have no problem with replacing old ones but I don't see the point of patting oneself on the back for being green when they have tossed aside perfectly good appliances for no reason other than to save some electricity. Not to mention the energy used for the truck that drove the new appliances to the home, and the vehicle that brought the old ones to the dump (or where ever they were going).

I am aware that the landfill problem is a myth. However, if one is truly this concerned about the environment you'd think they'd be a little more concerned with the effects their trash has on the world.

 

[JMD]

I would rather see this kind of thing happen as a result of consumer demand.

Agreed. If people really are concerned about the environment, then they will start purchasing products from environmentally-friendly companies. The government is not the answer.

Its hypocritical to blame Big Business for all the problems in the world, yet still purchase their goods and services.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Right. But if the appliances aren't energy efficient all you've done is use more energy - the new appliance plus the old one.

Even if the old one isn't energy efficient, I think it's better that someone who might not have been able to afford it have it then let it sit in a landfill. They were already using energy driving to the laundry every week. If they now have a washer in the house, they're saving gas from that!

 

[Beca]

I hate to be the wet blanket while you're busy congratualting yourself, but a question comes to mind. What happened to your old air conditioners and washer/dryer units? Unless I am mistaken, these were working appliances that you tossed into a landfill? Interesting....

Ummm, no...one of our air conditioners was not functioning (the previous owners had illegally overfilled it with freon to get it cooling at all, just to get it past the home inspection), and the other two were in such bad shape (the condensers were no longer pulling humidity out of the air) that they were running constantly. Even with the almost continual running of our air conditioners, we had over 60% humidity in our home (our units now keep the humidity at about 37-41% depending on the day). These air conditioners were designed to be 10 year units (the builder put them in), and they were 12 years old at the time. I'd say their useful life had ended.

As for the washer/dryer, my old units were "high efficiency" kind, but my washer leaves "mystery stains" on my clothes periodically, and was WAY to loud for the location in my home. Plus, the six year-old high efficiency washer cannot compare to the ones they have now. However, my mom and stepdad, who live on social security were THRILLED to have my old washer and dryer to replace theirs, which are over 20 years old (they are the old "coppertone" ones), are HUGE energy/water users and are certainly long past their useful life. They are going to try to get my washer repaired (I wished them luck, I had three different repairmen out who were stumped). I knew that finding a good home for my washer/dryer would not be a problem. When we got rid of our last set, we gave it to a newlywed couple who did not have a washer/dryer. A friend of mine gave hers to a battered women's shelter who always needs them to help single moms get situated in apartments after a bad relationship has ended.

If appliances are still good, it is easy to find people who would benefit from them. As for the "wet blanket" part, I wouldn't say that....but, I would say "cynical". Of course when you switch to more energy-efficient appliances, you will make waste. However, that is also true of things like cars as well. But, would it be better for someone to keep their '77 Dodge K car (which always seemed to have emissions issues at testing time), or switch to a more environmentally friendly car? I mean, one creates a pile of scrap metal if you dump it, but creates a lot of pollution if you keep it. Besides, a '77 Dodge K car was never meant to go 30 years. Keeping high energy consumption appliances post their useful life is never good.

If that means that somewhere a washer/dryer is made into scrap metal, that is a separate issue that needs to be addressed (kind of like the landfill issue). I know that the UK is working on such issues right now (I'm not sure about the US). From what I understand, old appliances are taken to areas where they can be disassembled. What is recyclable is recycled, and what is not is thrown in a landfill. The UK is actually considering adding a "disposal fee" to everyone who replaces an appliance and needs the other one carried off. This fee would cover the full expense of disassembling and recycling the components of the appliance. We didn't allow the installers to carry off our new washer/dryer, but I did ask about what happened to our old air units. The installer said part of our cost was to pay to have them carried off, and that fee was used to have them disassembled and recycle what they could. It sounds much like the UK.

When people are being told to change out their appliances, cars, etc. to more efficient ones, I agree that recycling DOES need to make some improvements. It sounds like a industry that might BOOM in a green technology society. However, what REALLY stands out in my head, is people who trade in an old car to get one that is just as fuel INefficient, and creates just as many greenhouse gases as the one they had.

 

[Charade]

We went to see it right before Christmas. I found it to be very powerful and scary. Livinng in New Hampshire it has been so warm this winter ( well, today it is cold ), that I can't believe that we really haven't needed winter coats at all this season so far. I think that there is a lot that can be done however big business is getting in the way because of their profits. Before we can even start to get other countries to change their ways we need do change ours.

There was a report on the news the other day talking about how the tick/insect season will be much worse this year because of the warmer temps this winter. If that is the case we can probably expect more insect born illness.

My 11 year old took almost two pages of notes during the film.

Vickey

It appears you believed everything they presented to you. Did you?

 

[TheDoctor]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16542693/

Last year was the warmest on record in the continental United States, the federal government reported Tuesday, attributing the temperatures to the natural El Nino cycle as well as to long-term warming linked to human emissions of greenhouse gases.

The findings are preliminary, and a final review later this year could still put 2006 just below the previous record set in 1998, the National Climatic Data Center reported. But in any case, the two years are pretty much a tie in terms of hot ones since recordkeeping began in 1880.

Both years averaged around 55 degrees Fahrenheit — 2.2 degrees above the 20th century mean.

 

[madonna31]

If it does exist, I'm totally for it. I hate snow and ice!

Me too, good thing I live North of Toronto because I haven't seen one single snow flake yet this winter!!! YEAH GLOBAL WARMING!!! Who cares how many people will drown, we won't see snow ever again!!!

Are you kidding? Have you even seen An Inconvenient Truth? If global warming was just about 'warmer weather and no snow', I'd be for all for it too, but it's not, it's about the beginning of the end of our world.

I don't need to look any farther then outside my own door and feel mild temperatures with zero snowfall on January 9th to know just how very real the global warming threat is.

Have you seen 'The Day After Tomorrow'? First watch Truth, then Day After. Only problem with Day After is that it has a very fictitious time line, other then that, it may help get your head out of the sand on the topic.

 

[jrsmom]

It appears you believed everything they presented to you. Did you?

Aren't you nice?

 

[JMD]

Have you seen 'The Day After Tomorrow'? First watch Truth, then Day After. Only problem with Day After is that it has a very fictitious time line, other then that, it may help get your head out of the sand on the topic.

So, all your opinions on global warming are based on facts presented in two movies that are complete fiction?