Am I the only one who doesn't get the "Occupy Wallstreet" movements

[dngnb8]

It's going to happen as time and numbers increase but sounds like the group tried to keep the guy away:



Some of the other issues that have arisen in the various cities can be pinned to people opposing the movement trying to sabotage it:

Conservative "Liberate Wall Street" group plans to "Infiltrate and Humiliate" Occupy Wall Street
http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywalls...ervative_liberate_wall_street_group_plans_to/

Conservative Blogger caught and punked at Occupy Wall St
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...-Blogger-caught-and-punked-at-Occupy-Wall-St-



can't we all just get along?

Infiltration and humiliation and misinformation was done with the Tea Party as well.

This will happen when you have organizations that differ on political view. The Flea Party isnt any different then the Tea Baggers in this behavior.

 

[Arielle22]

Protecting rights and the environment has been weakened by corporate lobbyists, special interest lobbyists, etc. And it's been allowed by many within our government (both parties are to blame, imo). One of the things OWS is trying to do is to raise awareness and hopefully bring an end to stripping all regulations and the lack of enforcement of them.


As for their funding, a myriad of sources from what I've read. Each city is gathering in mostly locally-based donations.

What regulations? Are you saying OWS wants the regulations enforced or wants them removed?

 

[dawnball]

I have no problem with a fee that actually covers the cost of my using my debit but sorry I highly doubt that was what these fees were covering since we're not talking the dark ages where you may have had a human doing the work, we're talking Ipad, steve jobs technology era.

The technology era isn't cheap. Writing the software that makes that work, maintaining the software, the servers, the compliance issues, the data verification, data transfer, tech support centers - it all adds up, and quickly. And right now, it's adding up even faster because the people capable of doing that work are in short supply, so you have to pay them premium wages.

Is it break even, losing money or profitable? I don't think anyone can really say except the banks themselves, but the electronic age is far more expensive than most people realize.

 

[JDUCKY]

Infiltration and humiliation and misinformation was done with the Tea Party as well.

This will happen when you have organizations that differ on political view. The Flea Party isnt any different then the Tea Baggers in this behavior.

I don't recall things like that happening at tea party rallies...certainly not on the consistent scale we're seeing against this movement.

 

[JDUCKY]

What regulations? Are you saying OWS wants the regulations enforced or wants them removed?

Part of what they're about is to get companies to follow regulations designed to keep our environment safe (water, air, etc.) and keeping workers safe on the job (OSHA) and keeping our food safe (FDA) and keeping the banking industry honest (SEC...notorious the last several years for not investigating anything)

 

[JDUCKY]

and here's a *perfect* example of why the OWS started:


Big profits, zero taxes for large U.S. companies
Tax rate for 280 profitable firms ranges from 41% to negative 58%: study
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/big-profits-zero-taxes-for-large-us-companies-2011-11-03

If corporations can be persons, well, tell ya what, time for us all to "incorporate" and off-shore our taxes. One sure-fire way to dismantle the gov't, rob it of its revenue!

 

[dngnb8]

I don't recall things like that happening at tea party rallies...certainly not on the consistent scale we're seeing against this movement.

Im not surprised. have you looked? I love your

We're not as evil as you are

Response


Both sides do it. Both sides did it. To complain your side is the victim without acknowledging the victimization your side did is .... well, there is a word for that.

 

[JDUCKY]

Im not surprised. have you looked? I love your

We're not as evil as you are

Response


Both sides do it. Both sides did it. To complain your side is the victim without acknowledging the victimization your side did is .... well, there is a word for that.

I did some basic Googling for cases of what you claim and found two. One wasn't even a case of infiltration but, rather, a teacher suspended for claiming he was going to.

Where's the beef?



BTW, I'm not claiming any side.

There are parts of the Tea Party agenda with which I agree and parts I don't. Just the same with the OWS movement. I don't agree with all of their ideas and propositions.

 

[fakereadhed]

Proof?

There's tons of proof that the Koch Brothers funded the "tea party" movement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/13/tea-party-billionaire-koch-brothers
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...y-funding-koch-brothers-emerge-from-anonymity

What does that have to do with anything? The Tea Party is not anti-billionaire or for wealth equality. I think people are confused when OWS is against greed and then takes donations from the rich to support the movement.

I am all for free speech and I don't care who funds it, but it is confusing to figure out what the message is.

 

[dngnb8]

There are parts of the Tea Party agenda with which I agree and parts I don't. Just the same with the OWS movement. I don't agree with all of their ideas and propositions.

Both movements have a commonality, and President Obama did acknowledge that commonality.

People are frustrated with 9% Unemployment among other things. Each sides is pushing its own philosophy on why.

In todays comics. Ironic

 

[Acklander]

What does that have to do with anything? The Tea Party is not anti-billionaire or for wealth equality. I think people are confused when OWS is against greed and then takes donations from the rich to support the movement.

I am all for free speech and I don't care who funds it, but it is confusing to figure out what the message is.

OWS isn't anti billionaire either. They are anti billionaires having their own set of rules and being allowed to buy our politicians. There are many wealthy people who recognize the unfairness and the greed. They are the ones that support the movement.
Nothing confusing about that.

 

[moburg]

I don't recall things like that happening at tea party rallies...certainly not on the consistent scale we're seeing against this movement.

Then you were not as diligent in looking for tea party infiltrators as you apparently have been looking for flea party infiltrators.

The Tea Party crashers even had their own website.
http://www.teapartycrashers.org
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2011590187_apusteapartycrashers.html

The Oregon teacher behind the group resigned in disgrace after his plans to infiltrate were exposed.
http://www.oregonlive.com/beaverton..._teacher_resigns_as_his_dismissal_loomed.html


As for the Koch brothers funding the Tea Party. Actually, they funded organizations who helped organize and advertise the Tea Party events, etc. Kinda like George Soros funding organizations who are organizing and advertising the OWS events. At least the Koch brothers have not collapsed 4 world currencies or been called an “economic war criminal”, as Soros has.

 

[dfchelbay]

So, if the big corporations pay more in taxes, you do realize that money will come from somewhere else on the books...as in maybe charitable donations. The bottom line is profit in corporations. If profits are reduced due to paying higher taxes, then donations will reflect this as well...less funds donated because there are less profits. My concern will be that if and when corporations pay more taxes, then it will get passed down to us, the consumer. I like that a new Iphone is $199, and not $399,$499, etc. which it could be to recoup increased taxes. Or, how much more will a car cost, a new computer, your trip to Disney, the clothes on your back, etc. It's all part of the bigger picture. One way or another "big corporations" will recoup the cost of higher taxes placed upon them, whether it be passed on to the consumer, or reduced donations to charitable organizations...either way, the 99% will still be paying the tab.

 

[OceanAnnie]

So what is the end game? A revolution for what? If there are no goals or rules where will all of this anger in the streets lead? I've seen footage of some OWS protesters egging police on, name calling, pushing. Then when police respond, they cry, "foul". What's that all about? Where is it all going to lead? And for what purpose?

Absolutely have not a clue. You know my standard Disclaimer: Please do not take me as an expert on any thing at all. I'm pretty much just watching the news like every one else.

Thanks for your honesty, E. You know, I think that's the thing. Lots of people don't have a clue about the end game, those for it, those that don't get OWS, and those in between. The baiting and the violence are a huge turn off. Given those issues and to be told by various sources they represent all of us?

That just doesn't cut it, not for me anyway.

 

[Hoodie]

OWS isn't anti billionaire either. They are anti billionaires having their own set of rules and being allowed to buy our politicians. There are many wealthy people who recognize the unfairness and the greed. They are the ones that support the movement.
Nothing confusing about that.

When they decide to march to individuals' homes because they have more money, it certainly comes across as anti-billionaire. That may be the cause of some of the confusion.

 

[OceanAnnie]

When they decide to march to individuals' homes because they have more money, it certainly comes across as anti-billionaire. That may be the cause of some of the confusion.

You're right about that.

 

[JDUCKY]

Then you were not as diligent in looking for tea party infiltrators as you apparently have been looking for flea party infiltrators.

The Tea Party crashers even had their own website.
http://www.teapartycrashers.org
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2011590187_apusteapartycrashers.html

The Oregon teacher behind the group resigned in disgrace after his plans to infiltrate were exposed.
http://www.oregonlive.com/beaverton..._teacher_resigns_as_his_dismissal_loomed.html


As for the Koch brothers funding the Tea Party. Actually, they funded organizations who helped organize and advertise the Tea Party events, etc. Kinda like George Soros funding organizations who are organizing and advertising the OWS events. At least the Koch brothers have not collapsed 4 world currencies or been called an “economic war criminal”, as Soros has.

And where's the actual infiltrations?

A website (created by the one guy I found in my own search) asking people to infiltrate is not the same as what we're seeing now happening to OWS sites.

As for the Koch Brothers, their involvement was direct.

Where's the proof of Soros (or anyone big like that) directly funding any of the OWS sites?

 

[Acklander]

So, if the big corporations pay more in taxes, you do realize that money will come from somewhere else on the books...as in maybe charitable donations. The bottom line is profit in corporations. If profits are reduced due to paying higher taxes, then donations will reflect this as well...less funds donated because there are less profits. My concern will be that if and when corporations pay more taxes, then it will get passed down to us, the consumer. I like that a new Iphone is $199, and not $399,$499, etc. which it could be to recoup increased taxes. Or, how much more will a car cost, a new computer, your trip to Disney, the clothes on your back, etc. It's all part of the bigger picture. One way or another "big corporations" will recoup the cost of higher taxes placed upon them, whether it be passed on to the consumer, or reduced donations to charitable organizations...either way, the 99% will still be paying the tab.

Sure, money has to come somewhere else on the books, they'll find a way to raise a bit of money from the billions in profits they earn. do you think it's right that small businesses have to pay taxes while large corporations get to move the it profits off shore and collect rebates from our government???

And what does charitable donations have to do with anything? Personally, I pay taxes AND I donate money. Do I get to tell the government that I'm not paying taxes this year, and if they make me pay taxes I'll stop donating to charity??? A voluntary tax system doesn't work. I'd much prefer everyone pay towards the cost to run a society.

 

[Acklander]

When they decide to march to individuals' homes because they have more money, it certainly comes across as anti-billionaire. That may be the cause of some of the confusion.

Sorry that confused you. It wasn't random billionaires they were targeting, it was specific billionaires, and there were specific reasons those billionaires were targeted. Does that make it any less confusing???

 

[jm-mom]

so in this scenario who do you want to help joe and mary? Should we redistribute the wealth so everyone is saved? I feel sorry for joe and mary but the government cant take care of everyone. Russia tried it and we dont want the communist lifestyle. If joe and mary didn't save enough for a rainy day and drop to the poverty line the government does bail them out. When joe and mary get back on thier feet do they ever pay the government back like the banks have? One of the core values of this country and the reason people have flocked here for decades is that this is the land of opportunity. If someone works hard and makes a something out of themselves and they rise to be wealthy they have achieved the american dream. Take that inscentive away by redistributing the wealth and there is no reason work hard and make something of yourself. Should everyone pay there fair share...sure, but did you know that 49% of americans pay no taxes? Those are the people who never work hard, get an education, and try to better themselves. The government has been investing in people like this for decades by offering program after program and where is the payoff? I think someone in the banking sector should be held accountable for the mess and laws should be made to make sure it doesn't happen again. But taking from one and giving to another is not the american way. How about cutting every government program by 5% and raising taxes on everyone by 5% for 5 years. At that time we look at the economy, national debt and see where we stand. If this plan doesn't work we can try something else. At least with this plan every american has skin in the game.

very well said!! Agree 100%