Am I the only one who doesn't get the "Occupy Wallstreet" movements

[OceanAnnie]

People will buy from Wal Mart instead of upscale stores? People will live within their means and not on credit?

I wasn't speaking of the upper class.

 

[Muushka]

I don't hope the OWS movement goes away. I hope that they can broaden their message to look at what is wrong with this country and not focus on certain entities. The entities that politicians target seems to be OWS's target. When in reality the politicians are as much to blame with what is wrong with this country as Wall Street is and included in the mix is the fact that the citizens of the US need to take a long hard look at ourselves and how we contributed to it.

It was a group effort.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I have one thing to say that has not been mentioned before, or at least I have not seen it mentioned. Those that do not understand OWS or who choose not to understand why it is important, it does actually stand for the likes of you, even if you say it doesn't. If it truly did not, you would not be here on this Budget Board...think about that one for a minute

If you, your spouse, your partner or significant other were making high 6 figures plus range per year, you would NOT be looking for discounts, sales and cheap ways to go to Disney so get off your high horse and open your eyes to reality.... this is not about "real" America, just the Corporate Greedy America"... and if you think someday you may never be in a situation that leaves you without a job, think again... it can happen. NOTHING is a guarantee in life.. the only guarantee in life is death.. beyond that.. there aren't any.... so if you are on this thread, if you are on this board, you are not who OWS is against, in fact, they represent "you"... the real OWS, not those that just jumped on the band wagon that is... the true meaning of this march... it is about you, me.. us... think

OWS represents....Mom and Pop business owners... small companies....and...

Joe & Mary who were making a total of $200K now $0
R'sheed & La'Kisha who are making a total of $80K
John & Sal who are making a total of $50K
Deshawn & J'Nivia who are making a total of $30K
as well as.. Jim making $135K
Arinna making $60K
Donald making $40K
Jasmine making $20K

Get the picture....

 

[ilovemk76]

I have one thing to say that has not been mentioned before, or at least I have not seen it mentioned. Those that do not understand OWS or who choose not to understand why it is important, it does actually stand for the likes of you, even if you say it doesn't. If it truly did not, you would not be here on this Budget Board...think about that one for a minute

If you, your spouse, your partner or significant other were making high 6 figures plus range per year, you would NOT be looking for discounts, sales and cheap ways to go to Disney so get off your high horse and open your eyes to reality.... this is not about "real" America, just the Corporate Greedy America"... and if you think someday you may never be in a situation that leaves you without a job, think again... it can happen. NOTHING is a guarantee in life.. the only guarantee in life is death.. beyond that.. there aren't any.... so if you are on this thread, if you are on this board, you are not who OWS is against, in fact, they represent "you"... the real OWS, not those that just jumped on the band wagon that is... the true meaning of this march... it is about you, me.. us... think

OWS represents....Mom and Pop business owners... small companies....and...

Joe & Mary who were making a total of $200K now $0
R'sheed & La'Kisha who are making a total of $80K
John & Sal who are making a total of $50K
Deshawn & J'Nivia who are making a total of $30K
as well as.. Jim making $135K
Arinna making $60K
Donald making $40K
Jasmine making $20K

Get the picture....

Apparently that is not true. Eliza61, earlier on the thread, said she makes in the high 6 or low 7 figures.

 

[robinb]

Apparently that is not true. Eliza61, earlier on the thread, said she makes in the high 6 or low 7 figures.

There are exceptions to every rule. Talk Show host Clark Howard is worth $15 Million but he can squeeze a penny until is squeaks.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Very true but this could work very much in favor for the Occupy groups. For example, in Oakland last week the police moved in and a Iraqi war vet got seriously hurt.
Last night there was a huge demonstration in Oakland again where they shut down 3 major bank headquaters and this time there was a huge Veteran prescence. The vets came out "strong" to support their "wounded" brother. Now, they may or may not agree or even know what OWS is protesting against but now you've just handed them a very strong additional support group showing solidarity for what "their" cause is.

So once again for those who hope this thing will go away, more and more people joining up for whatever reason can be not be seen as a good thing.

Like I said I think one of the problems you guys are having is that you expect protest to follow "certain" rules. "it should have a leader", "it should have goals" etc etc. Well if any thing Libya just proved is that a bunch of mad folks with a generalized goal (they simply wanted Gadhfi gone) can very much take down a nation and pretty much all they had in common was the fact they felt that they had nothing to lose. Now they have the hard part, trying to get a government together with a lot of different voices.

That's a dangerous mentality to sweep under the rug. I just read an article on abcnews.com stated that the number of poor have hit record highs. And I know every one hear thinks "oh, well thats their fault they are just lazy, yada yada yada" but these are "working poor". So now you've got a growing population who feel they have nothing to lose in this country. They feel whether right or wrong that the growing divide between rich and poor has the decked stacked against them and they are taking their anger to the streets.

Add that to what they see from people like those here who dismissively tell them to " just get a job" or "just go to school" or tell them that they are "welfare professionals who want to live off of my money" and you've got more unhappy campers.

So what is the end game? A revolution for what? If there are no goals or rules where will all of this anger in the streets lead? I've seen footage of some OWS protesters egging police on, name calling, pushing. Then when police respond, they cry, "foul". What's that all about? Where is it all going to lead? And for what purpose?

 

[Geoff_M]

Very true but this could work very much in favor for the Occupy groups. For example, in Oakland last week the police moved in and a Iraqi war vet got seriously hurt.
Last night there was a huge demonstration in Oakland again where they shut down 3 major bank headquaters and this time there was a huge Veteran prescence.

Funny, I see the Oakland "strike" as an example of what will lead to the movement's demise. So they're now vandalizing businesses, shutting down bank branches, and blocking the 5th busiest port in the US under a large banner declaring "Death To Capitalism!". And again, what's the "goal" of this economic havoc being visited upon Oakland? Well, as a CNN story on the strike stated, the general assembly that authorized the strike had no clear demands. This isn't a winning strategy for winning hearts and minds.

On top of that, we continue to see fractures developing within the movement. One of the stores that was vandalized in the "strike" yesterday was a Whole Foods(!!!). Some of the protesters tried to stop the vandals by getting in front of them and shouting things like "Non-violence!" For their efforts they were assaulted by the vandals and it was captured on video by Russian TV. Again, this stuff isn't going to play well with public opinion if it continues... and it probably will.

 

[moburg]

So what is the end game? A revolution for what? If there are no goals or rules where will all of this anger in the streets lead? I've seen footage of some OWS protesters egging police on, name calling, pushing. Then when police respond, they cry, "foul". What's that all about? Where is it all going to lead? And for what purpose?

I believe they want the conflict. They want the violence. They want a Kent State moment, as some MSNBC talking head said the movement "needed".


And some how the Tea Party is the dangerous violent group.

 

[Geoff_M]

And as if right on queue, there's evidence that the national mood regarding the OWS "movement" appears to be souring... and the antics in places like Oakland, Seattle, and other places aren't going to help with the sympathies.

The poll, released today, show 30 percent of voters surveyed view the movement favorably, 39 percent unfavorably, with an additional 30 percent not hearing enough to have an opinion. It's one of the first national polls to suggest voters are growing skeptical of Occupy Wall Street- and it comes as police have clashed with protesters in several cities. Previous national polls have shown a plurality of adults supporting the movement.

 

[eliza61]

So what is the end game? A revolution for what? If there are no goals or rules where will all of this anger in the streets lead? I've seen footage of some OWS protesters egging police on, name calling, pushing. Then when police respond, they cry, "foul". What's that all about? Where is it all going to lead? And for what purpose?

Absolutely have not a clue. You know my standard Disclaimer: Please do not take me as an expert on any thing at all. I'm pretty much just watching the news like every one else.

 

[Hoodie]

I have one thing to say that has not been mentioned before, or at least I have not seen it mentioned. Those that do not understand OWS or who choose not to understand why it is important, it does actually stand for the likes of you, even if you say it doesn't. If it truly did not, you would not be here on this Budget Board...think about that one for a minute

If you, your spouse, your partner or significant other were making high 6 figures plus range per year, you would NOT be looking for discounts, sales and cheap ways to go to Disney so get off your high horse and open your eyes to reality.... this is not about "real" America, just the Corporate Greedy America"... and if you think someday you may never be in a situation that leaves you without a job, think again... it can happen. NOTHING is a guarantee in life.. the only guarantee in life is death.. beyond that.. there aren't any.... so if you are on this thread, if you are on this board, you are not who OWS is against, in fact, they represent "you"... the real OWS, not those that just jumped on the band wagon that is... the true meaning of this march... it is about you, me.. us... think

OWS represents....Mom and Pop business owners... small companies....and...

Joe & Mary who were making a total of $200K now $0
R'sheed & La'Kisha who are making a total of $80K
John & Sal who are making a total of $50K
Deshawn & J'Nivia who are making a total of $30K
as well as.. Jim making $135K
Arinna making $60K
Donald making $40K
Jasmine making $20K

Get the picture....

I'm curious, what do YOU think is the "true meaning" of the march vs. the "bandwagon"?

Because I'm pretty offended that the OWSers claim to represent me and the behavior, signs and language say otherwise.

 

[Planogirl]

Anyone can claim to represent whoever they wish. Politicians do it all the time. However that doesn't necessarily make it true.

 

[fakereadhed]

I have one thing to say that has not been mentioned before, or at least I have not seen it mentioned. Those that do not understand OWS or who choose not to understand why it is important, it does actually stand for the likes of you, even if you say it doesn't. If it truly did not, you would not be here on this Budget Board...think about that one for a minute

If you, your spouse, your partner or significant other were making high 6 figures plus range per year, you would NOT be looking for discounts, sales and cheap ways to go to Disney so get off your high horse and open your eyes to reality.... this is not about "real" America, just the Corporate Greedy America"... and if you think someday you may never be in a situation that leaves you without a job, think again... it can happen. NOTHING is a guarantee in life.. the only guarantee in life is death.. beyond that.. there aren't any.... so if you are on this thread, if you are on this board, you are not who OWS is against, in fact, they represent "you"... the real OWS, not those that just jumped on the band wagon that is... the true meaning of this march... it is about you, me.. us... think

OWS represents....Mom and Pop business owners... small companies....and...

Joe & Mary who were making a total of $200K now $0
R'sheed & La'Kisha who are making a total of $80K
John & Sal who are making a total of $50K
Deshawn & J'Nivia who are making a total of $30K
as well as.. Jim making $135K
Arinna making $60K
Donald making $40K
Jasmine making $20K

Get the picture....

If I won the lottery tomorrow(I don't waste a $1 on it, but DH does) I would still be on the budget board. That is why you can't say OWS represents me. I am not upset about being in the 99%. If you think about it, that means we're nearly all in the same boat. I am not sure it would be better to have 50% holding all the wealth. Some want everything to be equal. I blame the "everyone gets a trophy" philosophy for that one. I don't see that as a solution either. Not everyone can be a gazillionaire. Of course they're in the minority! I don't have a problem with it.

 

[moburg]

Anyone can claim to represent whoever they wish. Politicians do it all the time. However that doesn't necessarily make it true.

And yet we are told, by several on this board, that they represent me whether I like it or not.

Sorry, but they don't. I may agree with some of their stated grievances, but I do not support their solutions and certainly not their tactics.

 

[JDUCKY]

Sounds like the movement is getting as big and greedy as the corporations it is fighting. Reuters News

WRONG.

http://news.yahoo.com/occupy-wall-st-finds-money-brings-problems-too-111339150.html

The movement is keeping its money at Amalgamated Bank, which was started in the 1920s by a garment-workers union and was until recently 100 percent union-owned.

That sole union ownership ended in September just as the protests were starting. Nine days after the demonstrations began, Amalgamated sold 40 percent of its stock to two of America's best-known investors, Wilbur Ross and Ron Burkle.

Ross buys and merges distressed companies in industries such as steel, coal and auto parts. Burkle is best known for his investments in grocery companies and has good relations with unions. Both Ross and Burkle are billionaires.

...

Dutro was wary about Ross and Burkle's stake in Amalgamated but said "the people in that bank and in their management are very committed to their principles, and I really don't see them being co-opted by a couple of vultures."

They're not greedy...they're taking donations (and now using an organized method of doing so) and using that money to provide food and other things for those in the park.

They're doing what people should do who care for someone other than themselves.

 

[JDUCKY]

WRONG -it's being funded by an organization owned by billionaires

Proof?

There's tons of proof that the Koch Brothers funded the "tea party" movement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/13/tea-party-billionaire-koch-brothers
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...y-funding-koch-brothers-emerge-from-anonymity

 

[dngnb8]

They're doing what people should do who care for someone other than themselves.

With care like this, we should be afraid....

Kitchen Volunteer's Sex Assault Arrest Shocks Zuccotti Park

By Adam Martin | The Atlantic Wire – 17 hrs ago


Link has language not suitable for this board.

----

 

[JDUCKY]

Originally Posted by JDUCKY View Post
I've seen that sentiment before.

It is disgusting.

The entire OWS movement is about corporate greed and corporate/lobbyist takeover of the government. It's about the disparity of wealth that is worse now than it was in 1929 before the Great Depression. It's about reigning in the mutation that is called capitalism and returning it to its true form. It's about protecting workers' rights, consumers' rights, the environment, etc. all while corporations can still make a profit.

Many of these people involved in the movement would LOVE to have a job! Some even do have jobs and join the movement to sleep there or spend time there during the day.

The ones in NY have created a bicycle-powered generator after the NYPD took away their gas-powered ones.

The movement is for real, it's a true grassroots movement, not funded by billionaires like another recent movement which got quite a bit of positive press over the last couple of years.

The first bolded sounds good on paper. How is this going to be done? Protecting worker's rights, the environment, etc. has corruption throughout. So what is the answer?

The second bolded, I'm not so sure about. Where is OWS getting it's funding?

Protecting rights and the environment has been weakened by corporate lobbyists, special interest lobbyists, etc. And it's been allowed by many within our government (both parties are to blame, imo). One of the things OWS is trying to do is to raise awareness and hopefully bring an end to stripping all regulations and the lack of enforcement of them.


As for their funding, a myriad of sources from what I've read. Each city is gathering in mostly locally-based donations.

 

[JDUCKY]

Kitchen Volunteer's Sex Assault Arrest Shocks Zuccotti Park

By Adam Martin | The Atlantic Wire – 17 hrs ago


Link has language not suitable for this board.

----

It's going to happen as time and numbers increase but sounds like the group tried to keep the guy away:

After word had spread of the alleged assaults, Iketubosin was told not to come to kitchen meetings and to stay away from the park, "but he kept coming." Sibbing said that around 9 p.m. last night "a whole bunch of people came and made him leave the park. Then the NYPD picked him up. I wasn't sure if it was for his own safety or if he was being arrested."

Some of the other issues that have arisen in the various cities can be pinned to people opposing the movement trying to sabotage it:

Conservative "Liberate Wall Street" group plans to "Infiltrate and Humiliate" Occupy Wall Street
http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywalls...ervative_liberate_wall_street_group_plans_to/

Conservative Blogger caught and punked at Occupy Wall St
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...-Blogger-caught-and-punked-at-Occupy-Wall-St-



can't we all just get along?

 

[dngnb8]

#OccupyBaltimore Discourages Sexual Assault Victims From Contacting Police, Offers Counseling for Perpetrators
by Derek Hunter

I was in downtown Baltimore Monday morning taking care of some business, so I thought I’d stroll a block over and check out the “Occupy Baltimore” crowd. Well, the word “crowd” might be an overstatement. There were about as many people as there would be homeless people on a normal day, only with tents and literature rather than Starbucks cups for holding spare change. And it’s the literature I found most interesting.

Among the literature I picked up off of their table was one titled “Security Statement.”

What it said, and what it implied, was rather disturbing:

As the Security Committee of Occupy Baltimore, we release this statement to ensure the safety of our newly forming, delicate yet strong community.

Sexual abuse and assault are dehumanizing acts for the survivor as well as the abuser. It strips people of their right to safety, dignity, and respect, basic values which embody many of the intentions behind Occupy Baltimore. As a vibrant community, we recognize and give power to these values and the rights of survivors.​

OK, saying you’re against “sexual abuse and assault” isn’t controversial, but do you really have to say it? Why isn’t it understood? As it turns out, that’s just the beginning of the weird. The entire “Security Statement” is about sexual assault and abuse.

Sexual abuse or assault at Occupy Baltimore is in violation of our values, and will not be tolerated. It is an explicit policy of Occupy Baltimore to prohibit abuse by any members of the community upon another person. Violation of this policy will result in the abuser no longer being welcome at the occupation.​

So sexual abuse or assault are against “explicit policy” and will get you shunned? What about arrested? Those things are crimes, after all. Shouldn’t Occupy Baltimore, like every other group or individual, encourage people to contact the police to get these predators off the street? You’d think so, but you’d think wrong:

Though we do not encourage the involvement of the police in our community, the survivor has every right, and the support of Occupy Baltimore, to report the abuse to the appropriate law enforcement.
​

So if someone were sexually assaulted, a horrible experience, they wouldn’t be discouraged to contact the police, the “occupy community” would rather handle it internally. That’s just perverse.

The “Reporting Procedure”:

Any member of the Occupy Baltimore community who believes he/she/they have been a victim of, are aware of, or suspect a commission of sexual abuse, are encouraged to immediately report the incident to the Security Committee. T (sic)

The point person for dealing with these situations will be Koala! (sic) Largess, (443) 642-XXXX.

Survivors of Sexual Abuse will be given the support, resources, and assistance needed for their emotional and physical health.​

So if you’ve been raped or sexually assaulted, don’t call the police; call someone named “Koala.” You can’t make this up, mostly because women’s groups would be protesting you if you did.

And that’s just side one:

The Occupy Baltimore prohibits retaliation against any member, survivor, or outside person who reports in good faith a complaint of an abuser or who participates in any related inquiries. False accusations of sexual abuse in bad faith can have serious consequences for those who are wrongly accused. Occupy Baltimore prohibits making false and/or malicious sexual abuse allegations, as well as providing false information during an inquiry. Anyone who violates any part of this policy will not be welcome at Occupy Baltimore.​

They’re setting up their own court system here, where the ultimate punishment, no matter the severity of the offense, is banishment from a tent city. This is sexual assault we’re talking about here, not taking someone’s cupcake out of their lunch in the fridge.

The last part is “Investigation and Follow-Up”:

Occupy Baltimore’s Security Committee will make every reasonable effort to keep the matters involved in the allegation as confidential as possible while still allowing for a prompt and thorough inquiry. All allegations of abuse will be treated seriously and thoroughly investigated.

If the survivor wishes to involve law enforcement, in order to obtain physical evidence of the assault, you must report the incident within 72 hours or the assault as collection and preservation of evidence is critical. Occupy Baltimore will also work to supply the abuser with counseling resources to deal with their issues.

The Occupy Baltimore Community has a Zero-Tolerance policy for any sexual, physical, or mental abuse of or by a community member.​

So allegations of sexual assault will be kept from authorities. They “do not encourage the involvement of the police,” but if you’re gonna do it, do it within 3 days. I don’t know about you, but I’ve seen enough episodes of “Dateline” to know you report these things immediately, not after seeking guidance from the Hippie Council. And, in typical liberal fashion, they offer counseling not only to the victim but the perp as well.
Maybe everyone can join together for a nice drum circle at the end of the day and let bygones be bygones.

It’s rather disturbing that this group of semi-organized (at best) amateurs would set up a parallel, internal system of justice that discourages involving law enforcement like they were their own country. What’s more disturbing is that assault victims might abide by these suggestions, and perpetrators of such a crime could get away with only a shunning by this small group and some counseling.

So, where's the MSM? Are the rights of women (or is it "womyn" when you are dealing with, what, gynecological-Americans?) being violated? For that matter, are the womyn being violated? Shouldn't some feminist group be counter-protesting and demanding an accounting? Beuller? Beuller?

http://biggovernment.com/dhunter/20...fers-counseling-for-perpetrators/#more-353488

Sounds like the group is trying to cover up their crimes to me. Apparently, it isnt the first time this has happened, and not the first location.

I guess some Rights arent as important as others.....