Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[bcla]

Am I missing why the suggestion is that someone did it on purpose as opposed to being careless or negligent? Because if the "ammo" box was under the armorers complete control/care that it would show HER as being completely negligent? (which of course she was anyway) So the suggestion is that someone circumvented rules to purposely sabotage?

A lot of the talk is that the firearms themselves were supposed to be protected, but the ammo was not. Not sure how to make sense of that with other claims that the crew was on the set shooting off the same guns used in filming.

 

[Sinder]

I think a dummy round still needs to have the bullet extend out. Not sure exactly what they use to ensure the correct length, as the bullet packs the powder. I found this image of a .45 Long Colt bullet. Not sure if it's necked a little so that it seats against the case so that it doesn't go too far in.

However, it sounds like they were using purpose made dummy rounds complete with two holes drilled into each case. Those would be easy to tell, on top of the missing primer.

If they suspect that someone might have inserted live rounds into the box of dummy rounds to sabotage it, then maybe they've checked the case with the live round for fingerprints.

One thing is that dummy rounds generally don't get expended. They could go back into a normal tray. Not sure what they meant by a "box of ammo". It would be interesting if they were kept just loose. When I've gone target shooting with friends, there was always commercially produced ammo in a box with a plastic tray. Since they're all standing up with primer exposed, it should be easy to tell that they're dummies if they used regular trays.

That was something I thought of as well, but I also thought that since they were dummy rounds maybe they wouldn't be packaged like actual ammo.

I wonder if the the claim of people target practice been confirmed by the investigation. I assume if it was the first people they would look to are the ones that were doing that.

 

[bcla]

That was something I thought of as well, but I also thought that since they were dummy rounds maybe they wouldn't be packaged like actual ammo.

I wonder if the the claim of people target practice been confirmed by the investigation. I assume if it was the first people they would look to are the ones that were doing that.

Costs would seem to be an issue. But a tray is easy enough to obtain. If they're been practicing shooting off set (which Alec Baldwin said was done) then they likely have trays that could be used. There's plenty of commercially prepared supplies (for hand loading) that could be used by companies to make dummy bullets, although preparing them from normal ammo can be done. That's what happened with the shooting death of Brandon Lee exceptionalities they didn't pop out the primer. Still - someone should have noticed that the bullet was gone since otherwise all they were using were blanks. I saw a few vids on YouTube of people making their own dummy rounds out of live ammo. Part of it was carefully measuring the length and then tapping in the bullet with enough friction with the case to hold it in place. The other was pulling out the bullet, pushing out the primer, and drilling a hole in the case.

 

[KayMichigan]

I think the "It must have been sabotage" theory is just something the company put together to cover up the crew's gross incompetence. What would be the reason? To cause the whole project to be shut down? Why would somebody who worked there want that? There is no way somebody would have known that Baldwin would practice cross-drawing and point the gun at the people he shot, so it couldn't have been a deliberate targeting.

It seems much more likely that somebody just made a horrible mistake through carelessness and not doing their job.

 

[bcla]

I think the "It must have been sabotage" theory is just something the company put together to cover up the crew's gross incompetence. What would be the reason? To cause the whole project to be shut down? Why would somebody who worked there want that? There is no way somebody would have known that Baldwin would practice cross-drawing and point the gun at the people he shot, so it couldn't have been a deliberate targeting.

It seems much more likely that somebody just made a horrible mistake through carelessness and not doing their job.

It's the armorer's attorney who is making that claim. Baldwin and the producers have been tight-lipped about providing any theories about how the live round got in the gun, other than that he didn't know that.

There are a bunch of theories, including someone just testing to see if it would be noticed. Or perhaps just to get someone in trouble because there was dissension on the set.

 

[Sinder]

It's the armorer's attorney who is making that claim. Baldwin and the producers have been tight-lipped about providing any theories about how the live round got in the gun, other than that he didn't know that.

There are a bunch of theories, including someone just testing to see if it would be noticed. Or perhaps just to get someone in trouble because there was dissension on the set.

Every time the armorer's attorney makes a statement I wonder if Alec Baldwin is actually paying them. I feel like everything they say just makes their client look more and more like she had no idea what she was doing and was not qualified to be in charge of any firearms and ammo on that set.

 

[VandVsmama]

The armorer’s attorney is suggesting this in order to cast “reasonable doubt” in case his client is sued.

 

[bcla]

Every time the armorer's attorney makes a statement I wonder if Alec Baldwin is actually paying them. I feel like everything they say just makes their client look more and more like she had no idea what she was doing and was not qualified to be in charge of any firearms and ammo on that set.

An attorney's primary duties are to his client and the law. I'm pretty sure that getting paid by a third-party to turn a client into a fall guy could get an attorney disbarred.

 

[Sinder]

An attorney's primary duties are to his client and the law. I'm pretty sure that getting paid by a third-party to turn a client into a fall guy could get an attorney disbarred.

I know I was joking

 

[KayMichigan]

I think Occam's Razor applies here - the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. The live round was put or left in there by accident and the armorer simply didn't do her job when checking the gun.

 

[bcla]

I know I was joking

Wasn't really sure because you never know what weird stuff happens. Heck - I think it might have even been the plot of a movie with Alec Baldwin.

 

[bcla]

I think Occam's Razor applies here - the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. The live round was put or left in there by accident and the armorer simply didn't do her job when checking the gun.

Still - under no circumstances is a live round that will fire off a bullet ever supposed to be on a movie set. It's supposed to be blanks or dummy bullets. Actors learning how to shoot them are supposed to have the live ammo only there for target practice but in no way is that ever supposed to go back to the set.

Not sure if anyone is going to admit to bringing the live ammo onto the set. You know - plausible deniability and everything.

 

[bcla]

A draft breakdown of the budget came out. Baldwin was getting $250K. $150K for acting and $100K for producing. Total budget was under $9 million.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/m...ar-producer-armorer-fees-revealed-1235041946/

 

[MakiraMarlena]

this was a very low-budget film and it's become obvious that they cut numerous corners, including those that were safety-related. It's correct that there should not have been any live ammunition on the movie set at all, but apparently nobody was checking. They were out in the middle of noplace and the union camera crew had gone on strike because they had to drive hours back and forth to Albuquerque every day, plus they were not being paid regularly. this set was trouble. I am guessing anybody could have brought in anything and nobody would notice.

In 2015, director Randall Miller was convicted of manslaughter after a camera assistant was killed while the crew was filming a scene on an active railroad trestle and an unscheduled train came by. The film company didn't have permission to use the railroad trestle and were trespassing. Miller and his wife were producers, and she pleaded guilty and received probation, he got a couple years prison term. Looks like the only time a director/producer was convicted of a crime regarding a death on a movie set - so far.

 

[bcla]

this was a very low-budget film and it's become obvious that they cut numerous corners, including those that were safety-related. It's correct that there should not have been any live ammunition on the movie set at all, but apparently nobody was checking. They were out in the middle of noplace and the union camera crew had gone on strike because they had to drive hours back and forth to Albuquerque every day, plus they were not being paid regularly. this set was trouble. I am guessing anybody could have brought in anything and nobody would notice.

In 2015, director Randall Miller was convicted of manslaughter after a camera assistant was killed while the crew was filming a scene on an active railroad trestle and an unscheduled train came by. The film company didn't have permission to use the railroad trestle and were trespassing. Miller and his wife were producers, and she pleaded guilty and received probation, he got a couple years prison term. Looks like the only time a director/producer was convicted of a crime regarding a death on a movie set - so far.

They were in a place just outside of Santa Fe. The producers claim that the crew were all provided basic lodging in Santa Fe but many who lived in Albuquerque opted to drive anyways. I suppose the crew weren't staying at the Four Seasons.

The Midnight Rider death was a whole series of mistakes, starting with the fact that they were trespassing on the railroad tracks. The production supposedly asked for permission from CSX and didn't get it. Also - freight trains don't necessarily run on any schedule. Dispatch simply moves whatever trains if there are available slots. I've worked a summer job in the transportation industry, and part of my job was to track the movement of shipping containers being moved by rail. They load them up the best they can and get them moving at highly irregular schedules. Granted when I was a kid I lived near a railroad track - the Santa Fe spur line from Oakland to Richmond and every morning one train would go to Richmond and in the afternoon and another would return to Oakland. However, that was years ago and I believe being in a highly populated area meant they had to carefully schedule it. In some remote areas that can be almost any time if there's not much traffic. Also - the vast majority of photography and video on railroad tracks is done via trespassing. You can see this with that guy in Southern California who recorded some stunt where he was supposed to look like he was outrunning a train and got run over.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

That isn't what the crew said, they said it was Albuquerque or a local fleabag hotel.

For Midnight Rider they put a metal hospital bed on the tracks to film a "dream sequence" with William Hurt in the bed. They had a 20-person crew out there, got all set up and then saw a train coming. Apparently the group had an oh crap! moment and some of the crew tried to move the bed off the tracks, but they were on a trestle and couldn't get it to the end. William Hurt had to run off in his bare feet. The train hit the bed and it shattered, the camera assistant (a 27-year-old woman) was hit by shrapnel; she fell, and was hit by a fuel tank on the side of the train.

Some crazy things have been done to get the right shot in a film. You'd think everybody would know better than to film on a live railway bridge or fly a helicopter close to explosions or have live ammunition lying around a set.

 

[bcla]

Some crazy things have been done to get the right shot in a film. You'd think everybody would know better than to film on a live railway bridge or fly a helicopter close to explosions or have live ammunition lying around a set.

What they were doing in Georgia was clearly trespassing. That was beyond stupid - especially with a trestle.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

yep - they had more than once asked the owners of the tracks for permission to film on them, and were denied, but they did it anyway. Was reading about it and they all had to run TOWARD the train to get off the bridge. it's amazing more of them weren't killed. Wyatt Russell, the son of Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn, was on the bridge too.

 

[bcla]

yep - they had more than once asked the owners of the tracks for permission to film on them, and were denied, but they did it anyway. Was reading about it and they all had to run TOWARD the train to get off the bridge. it's amazing more of them weren't killed. Wyatt Russell, the son of Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn, was on the bridge too.

Really? Didn't really know much about his work until Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

 

[JimMIA]

You just can't make this stuff up!

Alec Baldwin now says the movie industry should have police officers at every set where any kind of gun is being used -- real or fake -- to ensure the guns are safe!

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/08/ale...ld-hire-police-officers-to-vet-prop-guns.html