Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[Kennywood]

It's not the police departement's responsibility to prevent carelessness and irresponsibility.

 

[kdonnel]

It's not the police departement's responsibility to prevent carelessness and irresponsibility.

In Alec's world, it sure as heck isn't his responsibility to prevent his carelessness and irresponsibility!

Nothing has changed my mind from what I said in post #4.

 

[JimMIA]

It's not the police departement's responsibility to prevent carelessness and irresponsibility.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about hiring off-duty officers to fill that role.

But honestly, I rather doubt police officers (even firearms instructors) could do all the things armorers do on a set. Police officers could certainly clear weapons, but I think armorers probably do a lot more than that.

 

[BrianL]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about hiring off-duty officers to fill that role.

But honestly, I rather doubt police officers (even firearms instructors) could do all the things armorers do on a set. Police officers could certainly clear weapons, but I think armorers probably do a lot more than that.

Yeah, there's no reason a police officer is any more qualified to handle the weapons than a well-trained armorer. I am more of the camp that working weapons shouldn't be used at all, but the issue here was with training and procedures, which were clearly not adequate or being followed correctly.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Police officers?

Why not just shell out to hire a competent armorer? police officers are free I guess.

 

[JimMIA]

Police officers?

Why not just shell out to hire a competent armorer? police officers are free I guess.

No, they would not be free.

I don't think any professional police agency would provide officers for that kind of work in an on-duty capacity. For one thing, that's a liability issue -- but more important would be the taxpayers paying the bill.

 

[bcla]

No, they would not be free.

I don't think any professional police agency would provide officers for that kind of work in an on-duty capacity. For one thing, that's a liability issue -- but more important would be the taxpayers paying the bill.

Well yeah. I'd think anything like that would be considered an off-duty assignment. I've even heard of reserve officers who worked events like concerts and who provided security at clubs, where they got paid for those gigs even though their reserve officer status was unpaid. Aren't police on off-duty assignments usually required when there's some sort of filming on public streets or public land?

I've been stuck trying to get back somewhere when there was a film shoot, and there was an officer blocking traffic. I assume he was paid for by the producer.

 

[JimMIA]

Well yeah. I'd think anything like that would be considered an off-duty assignment. I've even heard of reserve officers who worked events like concerts and who provided security at clubs, where they got paid for those gigs even though their reserve officer status was unpaid. Aren't police on off-duty assignments usually required when there's some sort of filming on public streets or public land?

There are thousands of police agencies in the US, so I'm guessing there are just as many policies on this stuff. With my old department, nobody was allowed to work at clubs, there was usually off-duty employment at our many movie and TV sets, and reserve officers were not allowed to be paid.

Reserves did work certain events, like Armed Forces Day at military bases and the Columbus Day Regatta, but they used those details for their required hours of service.

 

[bcla]

There are thousands of police agencies in the US, so I'm guessing there are just as many policies on this stuff. With my old department, nobody was allowed to work at clubs, there was usually off-duty employment at our many movie and TV sets, and reserve officers were not allowed to be paid.

Reserves did work certain events, like Armed Forces Day at military bases and the Columbus Day Regatta, but they used those details for their required hours of service.

I found this in your area:

https://www.miamibeachfl.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/OFF-DUTY-RATES-EFFECTIVE-11-01-2015.pdf

So extra depending on rank and double on holidays. But also a little bit more for working night clubs.

It gets interesting getting enough officers for an even in a city with a small police department. The city of Santa Clara hires officers from other agencies to work events at Levi's Stadium, where they need maybe 180 officers on a game or concert day. They only have about 200 officers total, and having 180 work off duty on the same Sunday is not practical. And the real irony is that the biggest agency in the area is San Jose PD, and they don't allow their officers to work off-duty gigs outside of the city limits.

There are also some unique reserve officer arrangements. Stanford University has its own public safety officers who are deputized as Santa Clara County Sheriff's Reserve Deputies. They're paid directly by Stanford University. I've seen them working football games. Even in Berkeley where they formed a wall in front of the Stanford student section and UCPD did the same in front of the Cal student section. Let's just say there were problems with objects being thrown on the field as well as occasional storming of the field.

 

[TLSnell1981]

You just can't make this stuff up!

Alec Baldwin now says the movie industry should have police officers at every set where any kind of gun is being used -- real or fake -- to ensure the guns are safe!

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/08/ale...ld-hire-police-officers-to-vet-prop-guns.html

Nothing about personal responsibility?

 

[JimMIA]

I found this in your area:

https://www.miamibeachfl.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/OFF-DUTY-RATES-EFFECTIVE-11-01-2015.pdf

Yes, Miami Beach does work some clubs, and they've had some problems doing that. That's also 4 years ago; I'm not sure they still work clubs. Of course you know the officer doesn't get all of that money!

My department never worked clubs. Lots of other events where alcohol was served, but not clubs. Way too many possibilities for conflicts of interest.

 

[bcla]

Yes, Miami Beach does work some clubs, and they've had some problems doing that. That's also 4 years ago; I'm not sure they still work clubs. Of course you know the officer doesn't get all of that money!

My department never worked clubs. Lots of other events where alcohol was served, but not clubs. Way too many possibilities for conflicts of interest.

So no prearranged police presence at clubs at all, or do they just find whatever officers are allowed to work such jobs, even if they're from elsewhere?

I was hearing about Levi's Stadium off-duty assignments back in 2016 with the whole Colin Kaepernick pig socks things and threats to not show up for that duty. Then there was a lot of reporting of how they might be able to bring in outside law enforcement in their uniforms as "double badge" officers. Right now it's paying $75/hr (minimum 8 hours pay for a stadium event) and I think the payments go straight to the officer. I think they have to buy their own uniforms though, but it's going to be less than

I do remember there was a local police Lieutenant who was fired in his late 60s. He claims the reason he was fired was trumped up and that he didn't really receive any punishment per se such as loss of retirement benefits. He thinks they fired him because he refused to retire. He worked security a lot on weekends at a local theme park, and the reporting was that he was making over $400,000 per year, although it was probably paid for by Six Flags.

 

[JimMIA]

So no prearranged police presence at clubs at all, or do they just find whatever officers are allowed to work such jobs, even if they're from elsewhere?

I served in the County police force, and we did not police clubs at all, other than occasional "bar checks" which were usually conducted on duty if we were looking for someone or something specific. No off duty work in bars, clubs, etc, at all. Nor could officers from municipalities work off-duty in the unincorporated area.

I only worked maybe 2 off-duty details in my entire career -- it just wasn't what I wanted to do -- so I'm not an expert. And there are 30+ departments in our county. Our department was 5,000+, Miami is 1,200+, but some of the departments only have a handful of officers.

Our department did work large events like sports and festivals, and in some cases those assignments were split between departments. For example, both the Miami Heat arena and Marlins Park are county owned facilities located in the City of Miami. So for those Miami-Dade PD has the inside of the venue and Miami PD has the traffic control. The same is true for Fire Rescue -- county inside, city outside.

 

[bcla]

Our department did work large events like sports and festivals, and in some cases those assignments were split between departments. For example, both the Miami Heat arena and Marlins Park are county owned facilities located in the City of Miami. So for those Miami-Dade PD has the inside of the venue and Miami PD has the traffic control. The same is true for Fire Rescue -- county inside, city outside.

I've seen stuff like that. When I used to go to Raiders games in Oakland (which frankly get a bad rap for violence), they had duties divided between Oakland PD and the Alameda County Sheriff. And the facilities are jointly owned by the city and the county, although i don't think it was specifically because of the ownership. Heck - they were pretty chill about everything as long as we behaved. I used a trash can to open a beer bottle right in front of deputy and he didn't seem to care as long as I finished it before entering and disposed of it properly.

I won't go into the politics of it, but the University of California has a law enforcement requirement for any event - whether it's a political speaker or Yo-Yo Ma depending on crowd size. There were some complaints that speakers were being asked to spend a lot of security, while the University claimed that they were required of anyone. And as college sports fan I've seen the law enforcement presence on game day. On a football game day in Berkeley it's literally all hands. I've seen Berkeley PD doing patrols outside along with their mobile command center. UCPD obviously handles security inside the stadium. I remember once when a UC San Francisco officer was shot and killed, there was a tribute before the game that mentioned that he worked football game days in Berkeley. There's even transit police (Alameda County Sheriff) assigned to our local bus operator working traffic.

 

[JimMIA]

I think we're getting WAY off topic here.

I just thought it was amusing that NOW Baldwin thinks someone on set should check guns to see if they might kill someone.

As @TLSnell1981 said above, there doesn't seem to be much personal responsibility here. At least Travis Scott offered to pay for funerals!

 

[bcla]

I think we're getting WAY off topic here.

I just thought it was amusing that NOW Baldwin thinks someone on set should check guns to see if they might kill someone.

As @TLSnell1981 said above, there doesn't seem to be much personal responsibility here. At least Travis Scott offered to pay for funerals!

I'm pretty sure that you have seen topics go way off the rails before.....

But as for Alec Baldwin, I think he's still under the impression that he did have someone on the set to check for firearm safety. Like maybe a film armorer.

 

[JimMIA]

But as for Alec Baldwin, I think he's still under the impression that he did have someone on the set to check for firearm safety. Like maybe a film armorer.

Well, it that wasn't his impression at the time, it most certainly is now, LOL! Unfortunately, it didn't work out very well...and that is the critical point.

This is a tragic case with so many screwups that it's really hard to pin responsibility on one part of the event or place it exclusively on one person. Ultimately Baldwin pulled the trigger and killed an innocent colleague, but there is blame all around.

 

[dominiondad]

The only reason a policer officer should be on the set is to arrest Baldwin. He's just looking for another low-salary servant to take the blame when the big stuff goes wrong. Lot's of people to blame on Rust, but ultimately the guy who mocked police for a justified shooting just shot an unarmed cinematographer to death. The guy who has publicly criticized the ease at which regular people get guns, just fired a bullet into two innocent people so he could make a few bucks pretending to be a cowboy. At this point, anybody looking to Baldwin for solutions is just an apologist.

 

[Sinder]

Nothing about personal responsibility?

Right. How about thinking Hollywood should properly train anyone that will be handling a "prop" firearm on how to use it safely including checking the ammo to make sure it is the correct type.
Then requiring each person in the chain to check it themselves ending with the actor who is firing it.
Maybe require an NRA safety course instead of having PO's on set.
I guess AB couldn't be bothered with that, he's just an actor, he shouldn't have to know how to properly check a weapon to make sure it's safe. He's got people to do that for him.
If he was just a regular citizen it would be a different story, but he's an actor- they apparently don't have to be responsible gun users according to some.

 

[dominiondad]

Taking gun safety advice from Alec Baldwin is like taking swimming lessons from Ted Kennedy.