Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[a1tinkfans]

Imho…They are both Insensitive and Creepy. First off, I don’t care how stricken he wants to appear mentally/physically … he always appears ragged and worn out and not kind. They pulled over, with the kids all left in the car so she could get out and “ document” their interaction with the paps? Then she complained her kids were crying. She could have Stayed in the vehicle. Maybe… Don’t Stop At All.
they Chose to be the spectacles. They wanted a photo op for sympathy.. it was Cringeworthy! Then he lectures the paps I his “ power voice, lol” and she gets reprimanded by him WOW…priceless. All while the kids watch and cry??? Who does that? Oh… maybe someone that is trying to portray something she’s Not? REPEAT situation for her

They should stay quiet, stop trying to portray distraught ..
trick or treat pix..? Really, How Insensitive yo the now Motherless child who Died at His Hands!

Again, Imho… HE bears Some culpability and there’s plenty to go round in the Debacle of a production resulting in a Preventable, Fatality. With the add on of
once again …Nepotism Rearing it’s Ugly head in the Form of a death .. for allegedly giving a job to someone that allegedly already admitted …was not prepared, trained nor had the experience.
Its a Tragedy all around. RIP

 

[a1tinkfans]

I wonder if Baldwin has any of his money hidden overseas. I heard his wife is from Spain.

Lolololololol

 

[abdmom]

Sure. Take your kids trick or treating. But was it necessary for Alec and Hilaria to dress up, smile and post for the world to see? Posting those Halloween photos really seems cringey to me.

They should stay off social media for a looong time. Maybe a couple of years.

 

[JimMIA]

We had a weekend getaway to the mountains of North GA, and during that I spoke to my SIL, who has been in movie production work for 30 years (2-time Academy Award nominee, etc) about this incident. He has also served as a union steward on-set, so he knows the practices.

For weapons on set, he said the normal practice is that the armorer brings the weapon to the set. There, the armorer clears the weapon in the following manner:

• The clearing is observed by several people (he said usually 4-5)
• The armorer removes anything in the weapon -- removing the magazine if the weapon has a magazine, ejecting rounds from a rifle or shotgun tube, etc.
• A cleaning rod is passed through the barrel on any long gun or pistol to show that there is nothing in the chamber
• In the case of a revolver (which is the type of gun used in this tragedy), the armorer passes a cleaning rod through the barrel AND through each individual part (hole) in the cylinder.
• The weapon is then declared "cold" by the armorer...nobody else.

He also said there is absolutely no reason -- ever, on ANY movie set -- for actual live bullets to be present. Not only not used in filming, but present generally. There is simply no reason for it.

He also has worked in one movie with the assistant director in this mess -- the one who took it upon himself to declare the deadly gun "cold." Mr Halls got fired from that movie, but SIL worked with him for a couple of weeks. I would share his opinion of Mr. Halls, but it would violate posting guidelines and get me in trouble. Suffice it to say that SIL would never work with him again..

 

[fivikse]

We had a weekend getaway to the mountains of North GA, and during that I spoke to my SIL, who has been in movie production work for 30 years (2-time Academy Award nominee, etc) about this incident. He has also served as a union steward on-set, so he knows the practices.

For weapons on set, he said the normal practice is that the armorer brings the weapon to the set. There, the armorer clears the weapon in the following manner:

• The clearing is observed by several people (he said usually 4-5)
• The armorer removes anything in the weapon -- removing the magazine if the weapon has a magazine, ejecting rounds from a rifle or shotgun tube, etc.
• A cleaning rod is passed through the barrel on any long gun or pistol to show that there is nothing in the chamber
• In the case of a revolver (which is the type of gun used in this tragedy), the armorer passes a cleaning rod through the barrel AND through each individual part (hole) in the cylinder.
• The weapon is then declared "cold" by the armorer...nobody else.

He also said there is absolutely no reason -- ever, on ANY movie set -- for actual live bullets to be present. Not only not used in filming, but present generally. There is simply no reason for it.

He also has worked in one movie with the assistant director in this mess -- the one who took it upon himself to declare the deadly gun "cold." Mr Halls got fired from that movie, but SIL worked with him for a couple of weeks. I would share his opinion of Mr. Halls, but it would violate posting guidelines and get me in trouble. Suffice it to say that SIL would never work with him again..

Question-
How does all of that work if something *is* supposed to be in the chamber (blanks or something like that)? I'm genuinely curious. I thought I read somewhere on this thread that the armorer claimed she loaded the blanks herself and they found something like 3 blanks and 2 actual live bullets (those numbers could be off).

So if there were blanks in the gun (and supposed to be there), would anyone other than the armorer be expected to know the difference between the blanks and the live rounds?

It seems simple if the whole thing is supposed to be empty, but how could the non-professionals identify if the blanks were correct if there are there?

 

[JimMIA]

Question-
How does all of that work if something *is* supposed to be in the chamber (blanks or something like that)? I'm genuinely curious. I thought I read somewhere on this thread that the armorer claimed she loaded the blanks herself and they found something like 3 blanks and 2 actual live bullets (those numbers could be off).

So if there were blanks in the gun (and supposed to be there), would anyone other than the armorer be expected to know the difference between the blanks and the live rounds?

It seems simple if the whole thing is supposed to be empty, but how could the non-professionals identify if the blanks were correct if there are there?

Right. The initial step is to ensure the weapon is completely empty. After that, the armorer would load whatever was supposed to be in the gun -- which would NEVER include real, live bullets. NEVER.

 

[fivikse]

Right. The initial step is to ensure the weapon is completely empty. After that, the armorer would load whatever was supposed to be in the gun -- which would NEVER include real, live bullets. NEVER.

(Of course there should never be real, live bullets. Clearly that was a failure of someone on this set. Leaving that aside...)

Based mostly on what I have read here and just trying to understand, it sounds like the armorer on this set stated she loaded the blanks herself. Someone should have watched her do that following the procedure above (based on what you wrote above, that someone doesn't necessarily have to be the actor, if I understand correctly). Then this set had Covid rules that said the armorer puts the cleared and loaded with blanks gun on the prop cart (or whatever) but did not enter the filming area. The the actor uses the supposedly cleared gun while filming.

The part I don't understand is: I believe you and others (I may be wrong) have stated the actor should have cleared the gun prior to filming. But if the gun had the blanks in it as the armorer stated, what would the actor be able to tell if he had looked at the bullet situation? I don't see how having the actor open up the gun is helpful in a situation where blanks are loaded, as I believe the armorer in this case said she loaded blanks.

 

[bcla]

Question-
How does all of that work if something *is* supposed to be in the chamber (blanks or something like that)? I'm genuinely curious. I thought I read somewhere on this thread that the armorer claimed she loaded the blanks herself and they found something like 3 blanks and 2 actual live bullets (those numbers could be off).

So if there were blanks in the gun (and supposed to be there), would anyone other than the armorer be expected to know the difference between the blanks and the live rounds?

It seems simple if the whole thing is supposed to be empty, but how could the non-professionals identify if the blanks were correct if there are there?

Blanks are pretty easy to spot. They either have a cap or are crimped in place. They obviously have no bullet.

Then there are dummy bullets, which are inserted to give it weight and also because it's pretty apparently on camera when a revolver has no ammunition loaded in the cylinder. There was an episode of Cheers where someone is threatened with a revolver and the guy on the receiving end doesn't take it seriously because he sees that it isn't loaded. The ones they had on set were supposedly purpose made. They'll usually have a rubber insert or be completely missing the primer (the little bit of explosive that the firing pin hits and that starts the explosion), and best practices are to have them with holes drilled into the casing to indicate that they're dummies. The primer is more sensitive to shock than the powder charge that expels the bullet.

In the only other case in fairly recent memory (filming of The Crow), they tried to save money by making their own dummy bullets. They simply removed the bullet and poured out the powder but didn't remove the primer. The primer isn't usually enough to shoot out the bullet, but apparently one was fired and it had enough of a force to shoot a bullet into the barrel, but no further. Later on they didn't check/clear the barrel (it's been mentioned here) but loaded blanks in the cylinder. The force of the blank was enough to shoot out the bullet and hit Brandon Lee.

 

[bcla]

(Of course there should never be real, live bullets. Clearly that was a failure of someone on this set. Leaving that aside...)

Based mostly on what I have read here and just trying to understand, it sounds like the armorer on this set stated she loaded the blanks herself. Someone should have watched her do that following the procedure above (based on what you wrote above, that someone doesn't necessarily have to be the actor, if I understand correctly). Then this set had Covid rules that said the armorer puts the cleared and loaded with blanks gun on the prop cart (or whatever) but did not enter the filming area. The the actor uses the supposedly cleared gun while filming.

The part I don't understand is: I believe you and others (I may be wrong) have stated the actor should have cleared the gun prior to filming. But if the gun had the blanks in it as the armorer stated, what would the actor be able to tell if he had looked at the bullet situation? I don't see how having the actor open up the gun is helpful in a situation where blanks are loaded, as I believe the armorer in this case said she loaded blanks.

It wasn't supposed to be blanks. It was supposed to be dummy bullets. They don't fire at all, but give the appearance of a revolver being loaded.

 

[fivikse]

It wasn't supposed to be blanks. It was supposed to be dummy bullets. They don't fire at all, but give the appearance of a revolver being loaded.

Would the actor be able to tell the difference between the dummy bullets the armorer said she loaded and real bullets? (I don't know anything about any of this, so trying to understand the point of view of the people saying this is the actor's responsibility)

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

I watched the interview with Alec Baldwin and NOW he wants to limit the use of guns on movie sets. It's just like an actor who comes down with a catastrophic illness and suddenly they take up the cause because it affects them!! If he were someone who was a philanthropist or less arrogant and obnoxious I might actually be feeling some pity for him. All I can think about is the poor families who will never be the same and how all he seems to think about is his sorry butt.

Reminds me of the convict on death row who suddenly finds religion only this guy will most likely be back to his old arrogant ways once he is free from this. In my opinion a less likable individual or actor even in Hollywood is hard to imagine.

 

[bcla]

Would the actor be able to tell the difference between the dummy bullets the armorer said she loaded and real bullets? (I don't know anything about any of this, so trying to understand the point of view of the people saying this is the actor's responsibility)

The point of dummy bullets is that it looks like it's loaded. There's no way to tell without pulling out the cylinder. If they're commercially made dummies, it's easy to tell because the primer will be missing with either nothing there or a rubber insert.

These have black rubber inserts where the primer would normally be. But they don't have holes drilled into the side of the case, as was reported for the dummy rounds on this set.

 

[izzy]

If he's not supposed to talk about the investigation, then don't pull the car over to talk about anything relating to the incident. I don't see how that's really going to get the paparazzi to stop following you. "My kids are in the car crying!" Then why are you and Malaria pulling over to feed the vultures?

His advocating for new regulations on guns on sets comes off as though he's just trying to shift blame from himself and his crew. What are new regulations going to do if you're not abiding by the current ones?

Malaria!!!

 

[VandVsmama]

Hilaria Baldwin is almost hilarious in her stupidity and foolishness. It's terrible. And Alec Baldwin was an idiot for marrying her.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Right. The initial step is to ensure the weapon is completely empty. After that, the armorer would load whatever was supposed to be in the gun -- which would NEVER include real, live bullets. NEVER.

NEVER would EVER!

Hilaria Baldwin is almost hilarious in her stupidity and foolishness. It's terrible. And Alec Baldwin was an idiot for marrying her.

Well there you go. It does speak volumes. IMO

 

[bcla]

I believe he was claiming something similar earlier, but the attorney for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is claiming that the most likely reason must have been that someone intentionally placed live rounds in the same box as the dummy rounds.

 

[JimMIA]

I believe he was claiming something similar earlier, but the attorney for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is claiming that the most likely reason must have been that someone intentionally placed live rounds in the same box as the dummy rounds.

I doubt if that weak excuse is true -- but even if it is, that's even MORE reason why normal, common-sense safety precautions were critically needed.

Plus, they'd already had at least one (I think two) previous situations where "cold" guns unexpectedly went "BOOM."

There is SO much negligence in this case!

 

[leeniewdw]

I watched the interview with Alec Baldwin and NOW he wants to limit the use of guns on movie sets. It's just like an actor who comes down with a catastrophic illness and suddenly they take up the cause because it affects them!! If he were someone who was a philanthropist or less arrogant and obnoxious I might actually be feeling some pity for him. All I can think about is the poor families who will never be the same and how all he seems to think about is his sorry butt.

Reminds me of the convict on death row who suddenly finds religion only this guy will most likely be back to his old arrogant ways once he is free from this. In my opinion a less likable individual or actor even in Hollywood is hard to imagine.

Far be it from me to defend Baldwin or a celebrity/philanthropist but if you become educated about a thing, then you come to develop an opinion about said thing. I think personal experience helps us all develop our mindset about things. For example, my brother ran for 24 hours in support of The Longest Day, a fundraising effort for Alzheimer's research. Would he have done it had my father not been diagnosed with it? Perhaps, but probably not. Of course I don't think less of him because he did an amazing thing that meant the world to us and my Mother.

If Baldwin, incorrectly, thought the practices on set were safe (because experts told him they were) and the people he hired were competent, then he's learned a ton just now.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

the attorney for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is claiming that the most likely reason must have been that someone intentionally placed live rounds in the same box as the dummy rounds.

not sure why anybody would do that, it sounds like kind of an Agatha Christie type plot. Unless they were trying to hide the live rounds or something since they weren't supposed to have them. Not sure about that one, as everyone seems to know that people were using that gun for target practice.

I'm betting it's more like someone borrowed the gun for target practice and forgot to remove the live rounds, and whoever was supposed to check it didn't do it properly. Of course that is still exceedingly unsafe procedure on a movie set.

 

[Moliphino]

I believe he was claiming something similar earlier, but the attorney for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is claiming that the most likely reason must have been that someone intentionally placed live rounds in the same box as the dummy rounds.

Wasn't she supposed to be in charge of all the ammunition on set, as the armorer?