2025 Condo Meeting Information - Renting

[VGCgroupie]

I agree with you that DVC isn't the "bad guy" for engaging in commercial rentals. We all knew that they did so. The surprise, for me at least, is the volume. I would have never guessed they account for 20% of total point utilization.

We all just assumed members weren't exchanging but clearly they are. And with the new AP exchange it's even more people doing it.

 

[mrjack5]

That's a heck of a business model. Build a resort, sell 98% of the total points to consumers, who then cover 98% of the operating expenses and capital reserves, then acquire 20% of those points back each year to rent out rooms to cash customers. Am I understanding that correctly? Brilliant!

Why would Disney ever build another traditional hotel?

You might be on to something.

I think the last "hotel" Disney built was Grand Destino Tower July 9, 2019.

Everything built since then has been DVC/Hotel Room Conversion TO DVC

Riviera Resort = December 2019(Which Caribbean Beach buildings were demolished so a conversion took place)
Big Pine Key GF Conversion to DVC = June 2022
Cabins at FT wilderness Conversion to DVC = July 2024
Poly Island Tower = December 2024
Lakeshore Lodge = 2027? 100% DVC? Mix of Hotel/DVC?

 

[airjay75]

It’s possible two things are true here.

One, the spec renters are doing something morally and/or contractually wrong.

Two, Disney does so much commercial renting of its own that eliminating the spec renter may not meaningfully impact availability.

To me, this only matters in terms of proposing a solution. I’m all for eliminating spec renting, but not if that comes at a personal cost to the flexibility of my own membership usage while not meaningfully impacting the end goal, which is better availability.

But, hard to tell whether #2 is true. Is Disney revealing this data for transparency or to obfuscate the fact that they plan to do nothing more to combat spec renting and they can now say, well, look, the spec renters are minuscule compared to us and we wouldn’t be doing this if owners weren’t exchanging their points.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Just to clarify, I don’t think DVC is a bad guy at all. They are perfectly entitled to to rent the rooms where points are exchanged. I was just very surprised that this accounts for 20% of all DVC points usage. My guess would have been 2 or 3%! It doesn’t detract from the fact that there are undoubtedly owners that rent commercially, but we can’t honestly say that DVC using 1/5 of all the points in the system to book rooms to rent for cash doesn’t have some affect on availability. Or maybe they wait until after the 11 month mark and only pick up the less desirable rooms to rent for cash bookings? Possible I suppose.

I think some of my distain more so than other members have for renting is because it hugely impacts west coast properties. It doesnt affect WDW as much. I get annoyed when the BW resort view isnt there and I see it for rent but there is also so many other desirable things I can book there so I just do that. On the west coast it's no room available at all and then you see it up for rent. So you cant even utilize your membership you invested nearly 100k in.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Is Disney revealing this data for transparency or to obfuscate the fact that they plan to do nothing more to combat spec renting and they can now say, well, look, the spec renters are minuscule compared to us and we wouldn’t be doing this if owners weren’t exchanging their points.

Great question.

 

[airjay75]

As a side note, this is also a reason we probably won’t get good cruise exchange rates anytime soon, if ever .

 

[VGCgroupie]

As a side note, this is also a reason we probably won’t get good cruise exchange rates anytime soon, if ever .

Personally... I would vote to eliminate the ability to rent completely if you could exchange into cruises and ABD for a fair price.

 

[airjay75]

I think some of my distain more so than other members have for renting is because it hugely impacts west coast properties. It doesnt affect WDW as much. I get annoyed when the BW resort view isnt there and I see it for rent but there is also so many other desirable things I can book there I just do that. On the west coast it's no room available at all and then you see it up for rent. So you cant even utilize your membership you invested nearly 100k in.

I gotta think the exchange rates are also much lower than 20 % for VDH and VGC, or at least they should be. Which means the spec renting may be making a bigger impact there. Maybe we’ll get some data coming out of those meetings.

 

[airjay75]

Personally... I would vote to eliminate the ability to rent completely if you could exchange into cruises and ABD for a fair price.

I’d totally take that trade, especially if they made resale points eligible.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I gotta think the exchange rates are also much lower than 20 % for VDH and VGC, or at least they should be. Which means the spec renting may be making a bigger impact there. Maybe we’ll get some data coming out of those meetings.

I doubt it. It feels like some just want to ignore the impact of renting on the west coast. If screenshots were allowed here in the boards I would post them so you could see one member renting out literally every single Halloween party Sunday for the entire Halloween season.

 

[pkrieger2287]

That's a heck of a business model. Build a resort, sell 98% of the total points to consumers, who then cover 98% of the operating expenses and capital reserves, then acquire 20% of those points back each year to rent out rooms to cash customers. Am I understanding that correctly? Brilliant!

Why would Disney ever build another traditional hotel?

I don’t think they ever will.

 

[kilik64]

LSL is going to be mixed, which is kinda surprising to me, but its also massive.

But yea at a min there will be a DVD component of any new build for the foreseeable future. Just makes too much sense not to.

 

[pkrieger2287]

We all just assumed members weren't exchanging but clearly they are. And with the new AP exchange it's even more people doing it.

Had to go dig this up because i screenshot it last year when DVC posted a “Year in Review” for 2024 on Instagram… 3.5 Million in points alone exchanged last year for Disney Cruises.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Had to go dog this up because i screenshot it last year when DVC posted a “Year in Review” for 2024 on Instagram… 3.5 Million in points alone exchanged last year for Disney Cruises.

View attachment 1030436

WOOOWW I bet most us of never would have guessed that, so crazy to me that people are just like "okay" at such a poor value for the points. Now Im going to be on lookout for 2025 year in review

 

[pkrieger2287]

WOOOWW I bet most us of never would have guessed that, so crazy to me that people are just like "okay" at such a poor value for the points. Now Im going to be on lookout for 2025 year in review

My gut tells me they won’t make the mistake of disclosing this again… but I’ve been surprised before.

 

[Brianstl]

I think the point rentals Disney is doing themselves hit the one bedroom and higher villas much more than the studios. Anyone looking for a studio is either going to just book a regular Disney hotel room or use a third party to save money. Disney is using the villas to offer accommodations that are bigger than the studios.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I think the point rentals Disney is doing themselves hit the one bedroom and higher villas much more than the studios. Anyone looking for a studio is either going to just book a regular Disney hotel room or use a third party to save money. Disney is using the villas to offer accommodations that are bigger than the studios.

I can agree with this. When I was renting studios from Disney I would go for Pop. When I saw deluxe studio prices I was like uhhhh NO. But I did go with BW for a 1 bed.

 

[Sandisw]

Did they give you any clue as to what that enforcement looked like?

Just confirmed that there is no set action by an owner but again, it’s a pattern, volume, and evidence it looks like that owner is renting for mode of commercial business reason vs the average owner who rents because they have reasons to do so.

Basically, what we have always known,..the main goal is personal use and not commercial and so they can tell when reviewing accounts which is which.

I did

Adding context to how I had my conversations after. We had to introduce ourselves to ask questions.

Given my extensive conversations with DVC management over the years and that they know I am me from DiS, and yes they read them, they introduced themselves to me.

The enforcement has happened but their guess is that owners caught up in that aren’t sharing in the public space.

But, again, as I shared, they look at owner’s actions as a whole and make decisions based on that with always the intent that those decisions are carefully considered for impact.

I’m going to add to this because I don’t think I was clear in sharing my understanding.

When DVC takes rooms they don’t make a “reservation” per say… they just take them from the DVC system.

They can’t r remove them sooner than the 11 month plus 7 window, but it’s not like they have to “create” a reservation.

 

[Doingitagain]

Disney can use exchanged points for each home resort at the 11 month window. They likely have large pools of points and can book ten days at a time, where many of us can’t do that. And then keep extending them a day at a time. So they are better able to book reservations, without needing to walk them.

 

[Sandisw]

So, if I’m understanding correctly, which I’m not sure that I am, that rule applies to the 2% of points at each resort (which could be more at times) Disney is required or chooses to own, but it does not apply to points owners exchange into Interval, resort collection, APs, or cruises. And, that is apparently 20% of all point usage by DVC owners? So 20% of all points can be booked at the 11 month mark and then “rented” by Disney for commercial purposes?

If this is accurate, I feel like this really upends the entirety of concerns a lot of people have had over commercial renting. Suddenly, it may not be the people on FB with their list of confirmed reservations that are the most significant problem (not to say they aren’t a problem) but maybe Disney itself with its big pile of exchanged points they’re using to maximize value because they are completely free to rent for commercial purposes.

Not exaclty. What they said is that 20% of the points owned…not DVDs points…by owners are exchanged out of DVC for other things.

People use them for cruise’s, APs, II, etc. When an owner exchanges, DVC can take a room out of inventory to offer for cash.

They can’t take those rooms any sooner than 11 months, but they can take them to pay for the exchange.

The points required by law for DVD to keep, and not sell, are different.

Breakage period is 60 days or less from check in and any rooms not booked by owners get sent for cash.

However, DVC can anticipate that based on booking patterns and pull them farther out than 60 days. That 60 days can be changed to as high as 90 days or as low as 30 days.

One of my theories last year when they announced MMB and the trades for APs was a move by DVC to shift the rooms from the open rental market to the Disney rental market. Owners now had another exchange to do with their points.

But, I had no idea is was that high and that really will impact availability because that’s a lot of DVC rooms leaving for those exchanges.