2025 Condo Meeting Information - Renting

[Sandisw]

That's a heck of a business model. Build a resort, sell 98% of the total points to consumers, who then cover 98% of the operating expenses and capital reserves, then acquire 20% of those points back each year to rent out rooms to cash customers. Am I understanding that correctly? Brilliant!

Why would Disney ever build another traditional hotel?

Remember, though, that 20% is coming from owners who see the value in exchanging.

So, they are getting to do that because owners want to use their memberships for vacations outside of DVC.

I talked to a few people today who routinely have used points for cruises

 

[Sandisw]

it’s possible two things are true here.

One, the spec renters are doing something morally and/or contractually wrong.

Two, Disney does so much commercial renting of its own that eliminating the spec renter may not meaningfully impact availability.

To me, this only matters in terms of proposing a solution. I’m all for eliminating spec renting, but not if that comes at a personal cost to the flexibility of my own membership usage while not meaningfully impacting the end goal, which is better availability.

But, hard to tell whether #2 is true. Is Disney revealing this data for transparency or to obfuscate the fact that they plan to do nothing more to combat spec renting and they can now say, well, look, the spec renters are minuscule compared to us and we wouldn’t be doing this if owners weren’t exchanging their points.

I’ll just go out on a limb with an opinion here. I would be very surprised to ever see DVC create rules that stop an owner from renting a confirmed reservation, including ones that are in high demand.

However, I think that any owner who is doing a lot of spec renting…and DVC can see that based on how often one is changing the lead guest…might very well find themselves at some point needing to have a conversation with DVC about this type of pattern.

 

[mkatsy]

it’s possible two things are true here.

One, the spec renters are doing something morally and/or contractually wrong.

Two, Disney does so much commercial renting of its own that eliminating the spec renter may not meaningfully impact availability.

To me, this only matters in terms of proposing a solution. I’m all for eliminating spec renting, but not if that comes at a personal cost to the flexibility of my own membership usage while not meaningfully impacting the end goal, which is better availability.

But, hard to tell whether #2 is true. Is Disney revealing this data for transparency or to obfuscate the fact that they plan to do nothing more to combat spec renting and they can now say, well, look, the spec renters are minuscule compared to us and we wouldn’t be doing this if owners weren’t exchanging their points.

Option #3 they agreed to take the spotlight off of the “strip/rent/flip” crowd, and put it on themselves, in exchange for $500 per transaction.

 

[Sandisw]

Just to clarify, I don’t think DVC is a bad guy at all. They are perfectly entitled to to rent the rooms where points are exchanged. I was just very surprised that this accounts for 20% of all DVC points usage. My guess would have been 2 or 3%! It doesn’t detract from the fact that there are undoubtedly owners that rent commercially, but we can’t honestly say that DVC using 1/5 of all the points in the system to book rooms to rent for cash doesn’t have some affect on availability. Or maybe they wait until after the 11 month mark and only pick up the less desirable rooms to rent for cash bookings? Possible I suppose.

Just to add to this. When DVC pulls 20% of the rooms for exchanges, they are being rented to pay for the exchanges.

And, DVC has to legally remove the rooms when someone uses points outside DVC as those points are now “used”.

Now, that doesn’t mean that DVC doesn’t make any money off the rooms after they pay the other divisions for the exchange…

If owners stop exchanging, then that figure goes down. And, as I mentioned, now that we can use them for an AP? I bet it might even go up a slight bit.

 

[Carouselofplanning]

Option #3 they agreed to take the spotlight off of the “strip/rent/flip” crowd, and put it on themselves, in exchange for $500 per transaction.

There is nothing more annoying than when you’re shopping for a contract and you find the right contract points, the resort, the use year you want, a halfway decent price and then you click on the listing and there are no points until 2027 lol.

 

[Sandisw]

As a side note, this is also a reason we probably won’t get good cruise exchange rates anytime soon, if ever .

The rates for the exchange are heavily influenced by DCL…

Disney can use exchanged points for each home resort at the 11 month window. They likely have large pools of points and can book ten days at a time, where many of us can’t do that. And then keep extending them a day at a time. So they are better able to book reservations, without needing to walk them.

DVC has to follow the same rules as the rest of us so they can’t pull rooms from inventory to pay for exchanges more than 11 plus 7 days.

 

[Sandisw]

“My family and I once again find ourselves with too many points”…

“Regretfully, we must cancel our trip the first week of December, Food and Wine week, and Spring break…”

As long as those posts still exist attached to thousands of points for rent, I will not fall for the new narrative that “actually Disney is the big bad renter we never knew about with their 20%”.

I think it was just a surprise that 20% of points are exchanged by owners out of DVC and into other things.

15% at BWV.

That is a lot of inventory that moves from points booking to cash bookings.

There is just no way that doesn’t impact availability in some way.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I think some of my distain more so than other members have for renting is because it hugely impacts west coast properties. It doesnt affect WDW as much. I get annoyed when the BW resort view isnt there and I see it for rent but there is also so many other desirable things I can book there so I just do that. On the west coast it's no room available at all and then you see it up for rent. So you cant even utilize your membership you invested nearly 100k in.

Pitch forks for the DVC Spec Rental FB Groups!

“I just book 19 of the most desirable weekends a year in studios and decide which 8-10 to rent out to cover the dues….”

 

[lowlight]

a

I think it was just a surprise that 20% of points are exchanged by owners out of DVC and into other things.

15% at BWV.

That is a lot of inventory that moves from points booking to cash bookings.

There is just no way that doesn’t impact availability in some way.

15% of all exchanged points is at BWV alone? Meaning the remaining 5% is the other resorts? Or 15% of all BWV points are exchanged? To me, this is a symptom, not the disease. What is causing people to trade out so many BWV points? Lack of availability of the weeks they need?

 

[AstroBlasters]

a


15% of all exchanged points is at BWV alone? Meaning the remaining 5% is the other resorts? Or 15% of all BWV points are exchanged? To me, this is a symptom, not the disease. What is causing people to trade out so many BWV points? Lack of availability of the weeks they need?

I think it’s 20% of all DVC points and a spotlight of BWV at 15%.

So there are others that must be higher than 20% to bring the average up…

 

[DonnerB]

What is causing people to trade out so many BWV points?

OG owners who paid a fraction of the price per point newer owners paid? I know I'd be more inclined to trade in points I paid $65-$70 for and had already used for decades of stays!

 

[Sandisw]

a


15% of all exchanged points is at BWV alone? Meaning the remaining 5% is the other resorts? Or 15% of all BWV points are exchanged? To me, this is a symptom, not the disease. What is causing people to trade out so many BWV points? Lack of availability of the weeks they need?

15% of points are traded out by BWV owners to use for things like cruises, etc. the average across all is 20%. So, it’s occurring everywhere.

It just goes to show that a lot of owners value those things as part of the program.

I know that the notion here is that it’s not a good use of points, but I think this supports that places like the DIS and other DVC online communities really are a small subset of owners.

And, I don’t think you can contribute this to anything more than DVC owners like to use points for things beyond DvC. I think It’s a big selling point

 

[BeachClub2014]

15% of points are traded out by BWV owners to use for things like cruises, etc. the average across all is 20%. So, it’s occurring everywhere.

It just goes to show that a lot of owners value those things as part of the program.

I know that the notion here is that it’s not a good use of points, but I think this supports that places like the DIS and other DVC online communities really are a small subset of owners.

And, I don’t think you can contribute this to anything more than DVC owners like to use points for things beyond DvC. I think It’s a big selling point

With these kinds of exchange numbers, I guess I don't need to feel DisBoard guilt and shame for using 65 points to renew my AP. I am apparently in good company.

 

[Sandisw]

With these kinds of exchange numbers, I guess I don't need to feel DisBoard guilt and shame for using 65 points to renew my AP. I am apparently in good company.

Me too!

 

[DebbieB]

I can agree with this. When I was renting studios from Disney I would go for Pop. When I saw deluxe studio prices I was like uhhhh NO. But I did go with BW for a 1 bed.

My friend and I sometimes do a last minute trip, maybe 4 nights. We did it last summer for the new night parade. We stay at Pop! Can’t imagine paying for a Deluxe.

 

[Cyberc1978]

My understanding is that when an owner uses points in II then DVC don’t get to rent those points out for cash. The points goes somehow to II members which in return can book 1br’ at different DVC properties. Occasionally also 2br rooms.

On top when a II member books a DVC reservation the member will be charged the $190 resort fee or because we can fee. Those money goes directly to DVC or whoever DVC decides to hand them over to.

 

[Sandisw]

My understanding is that when an owner uses points in II then DVC don’t get to rent those points out for cash. The points goes somehow to II members which in return can book 1br’ at different DVC properties. Occasionally also 2br rooms.

On top when a II member books a DVC reservation the member will be charged the $190 resort fee or because we can fee. Those money goes directly to DVC or whoever DVC decides to hand them over to.

You are right…II is not the exchange for cash.

It’s cruise, and, and other trades via Disney collection and such. But it still removes rooms from points booking.

 

[Doingitagain]

The rates for the exchange are heavily influenced by DCL…

DVC has to follow the same rules as the rest of us so they can’t pull rooms from inventory to pay for exchanges more than 11 plus 7 days.

They follow the same rules (sorry I put 10 rather than 7, I had dining on my mind), but their flexible home resort advantage allows them to select premium dates that are then not available for people at 7 months. Buy where you want to stay

 

[lowlight]

You are right…II is not the exchange for cash.

It’s cruise, and, and other trades via Disney collection and such. But it still removes rooms from points booking.

I guess my question would be- if I trade 400 points into a cruise, and 200 are from say OKW, and 200 are from Riviera just as an example, does Disney have 400 points to use at any resort to sell a cash room, or is it strictly limited to the resorts those points originated from, like breakage?

 

[RivShore]

I know that the notion here is that it’s not a good use of points, but I think this supports that places like the DIS and other DVC online communities really are a small subset of owners.

Was about to say the same, the vast majority of owners just don't care that they don't know this stuff, they just use their points for what they want.