2025 Condo Meeting Information - Renting

[Cfabar1]

Interesting to see that 20% of DVC utilizations are rentals by DVC. I didn’t think it would be so high.

Sorry, must have missed this. Where is that stat?

 

[kilik64]

Sorry, must have missed this. Where is that stat?

Sakaske said that about 20% of all DVC utilizations overall falls into this category; at BoardWalk specifically, it was cited at around 15%. While this does not equate to commercial renting, these exchange‑based usages do have a real impact on availability and may be part of the bigger picture.

Near the end of the DVC fan article.

 

[airjay75]

Rooms left at 60 days or less can be reserved for cash with income going to dues under breakage. This is different than the rooms they have because of unsold points or exchanges.

So, if I’m understanding correctly, which I’m not sure that I am, that rule applies to the 2% of points at each resort (which could be more at times) Disney is required or chooses to own, but it does not apply to points owners exchange into Interval, resort collection, APs, or cruises. And, that is apparently 20% of all point usage by DVC owners? So 20% of all points can be booked at the 11 month mark and then “rented” by Disney for commercial purposes?

If this is accurate, I feel like this really upends the entirety of concerns a lot of people have had over commercial renting. Suddenly, it may not be the people on FB with their list of confirmed reservations that are the most significant problem (not to say they aren’t a problem) but maybe Disney itself with its big pile of exchanged points they’re using to maximize value because they are completely free to rent for commercial purposes.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Rooms left at 60 days or less can be reserved for cash with income going to dues under breakage. This is different than the rooms they have because of unsold points or exchanges.

Thanks, this must be where I got this in my mind.

 

[VGCgroupie]

So, if I’m understanding correctly, which I’m not sure that I am, that rule applies to the 2% of points at each resort (which could be more at times) Disney is required or chooses to own, but it does not apply to points owners exchange into Interval, resort collection, APs, or cruises. And, that is apparently 20% of all point usage by DVC owners? So 20% of all points can be booked at the 11 month mark and then “rented” by Disney for commercial purposes?

If this is accurate, I feel like this really upends the entirety of concerns a lot of people have had over commercial renting. Suddenly, it may not be the people on FB with their list of confirmed reservations that are the most significant problem (not to say they aren’t a problem) but maybe Disney itself with its big pile of exchanged points they’re using to maximize value because they are completely free to rent for commercial purposes.

Not for me, plenty of times I have seen a commerical renter on FB have the dates I need but couldn't get. So they (commercial renter) were still able to obtain the room even though DVC is renting rooms.

 

[airjay75]

Not for me, plenty of times I have seen a commerical renter on FB have the dates I need but couldn't get. So they (commercial renter) were still able to obtain the room even though DVC is renting rooms.

Yeah, I guess maybe the counter is that Disney is doing what they’re explicitly allowed to do (commercial renting), but the FB renter is doing something they are not allowed to do, assuming it meets the definition of commercial renting and we know the FB offenders tend to be pretty blatant in what they’re doing.

 

[JackosinDIS]

So, if I’m understanding correctly, which I’m not sure that I am, that rule applies to the 2% of points at each resort (which could be more at times) Disney is required or chooses to own, but it does not apply to points owners exchange into Interval, resort collection, APs, or cruises. And, that is apparently 20% of all point usage by DVC owners? So 20% of all points can be booked at the 11 month mark and then “rented” by Disney for commercial purposes?

If this is accurate, I feel like this really upends the entirety of concerns a lot of people have had over commercial renting. Suddenly, it may not be the people on FB with their list of confirmed reservations that are the most significant problem (not to say they aren’t a problem) but maybe Disney itself with its big pile of exchanged points they’re using to maximize value because they are completely free to rent for commercial purposes.

It does slightly upend the argument that commercial renting is the main cause of lack of availability, when 20% of all points have been used by DVC for renting. That could be equal to half (or more) of all studio rooms if you think about it.

 

[airjay75]

It does slightly upend the argument that commercial renting is the main cause of lack of availability, when 20% of all points have been used by DVC for renting. That could be equal to half (or more) of all studio rooms if you think about it.

Yeah, I guess the question is, if you take away the non-Disney commercial renters, would availability materially change? Or, would Disney scoop up a lot of those rooms anyways because they tend to be the most profitable and they are otherwise completely allowed to maximize their rental profit? Disney does want happy members, so presumably they would have that as countervailing force that the non-Disney renter would not. But, it does seem to muddle the overall picture of what most impacts availability of certain hard to get rooms.

 

[VGCgroupie]

It does slightly upend the argument that commercial renting is the main cause of lack of availability, when 20% of all points have been used by DVC for renting. That could be equal to half (or more) of all studio rooms if you think about it.

For me personally it does not. When I see on FB one person renting out 15 different reservations all within a 60 day period of time for popular dates like OBB or for Food & Wine at Epcot, to me that says Disney is not my main competition for booking rooms.

Edit to add or on websites created just for renting not just FB

 

[Cfabar1]

Disney does want happy members, so presumably they would have that as countervailing force that the non-Disney renter would not.

Who is Disney…

DVD wants members who will add onto their membership.

WDW wants folks who will come to the units and spend money at the parks. In many ways we know they might prefer that to not be a member.

Not sure if having availability ranks high on anyone at Disney’s goal list.

 

[BeachClub2014]

That's a heck of a business model. Build a resort, sell 98% of the total points to consumers, who then cover 98% of the operating expenses and capital reserves, then acquire 20% of those points back each year to rent out rooms to cash customers. Am I understanding that correctly? Brilliant!

Why would Disney ever build another traditional hotel?

 

[airjay75]

Who is Disney…

DVD wants members who will add onto their membership.

WDW wants folks who will come to the units and spend money at the parks. In many ways we know they might prefer that to not be a member.

Not sure if having availability ranks high on anyone at Disney’s goal list.

Fair point. Can’t disagree with that. I was trying to come up with a reason that might make Disney/DVD at least slightly more sensitive to impacting availability than a FB/commercial renter, but you could very well be right. It may just boil down to both groups want to maximize their profit as a commercial enterprise - one is allowed and the other isn’t.

 

[DebbieB]

If they are renting exchange points, the money has to go to pay for exchange, it’s not DVC’s to keep, at least not all of it. That’s the only way they can do exchanges. If a member exchanges for a cruise, technically it’s the renter taking the place of the member for those points.

 

[RivShore]

Does it really make a difference though - Say Disney did not allow trading points, wouldn't that 20% now be booking rooms, or looking to rent their points? We end up in the same place, no?

 

[airjay75]

Does it really make a difference though - Say Disney did not allow trading points, wouldn't that 20% now be booking rooms, or looking to rent their points? We end up in the same place, no?

I think there is probably a significant difference in how the ordinary members exchanging (with not very good exchange rates) would have used their points and how a commercial enterprise looking to maximize their return would use their points. You end up in the same place in terms of number of points used, but probably not in how those points were used.

 

[JackosinDIS]

For me personally it does not. When I see on FB one person renting out 15 different reservations all within a 60 day period of time for popular dates like OBB or for Food & Wine at Epcot, to me that says Disney is not my main competition for booking rooms.

Edit to add or on websites created just for renting not just FB

I suspect if DVC posted all the cash rooms booked with DVC points on Facebook, your opinion might change! We don’t have visibility of the amount of bookings they make… but it would be a whole lot more than the commercial renters on Facebook with 20% of all DVC points

 

[lowlight]

“My family and I once again find ourselves with too many points”…

“Regretfully, we must cancel our trip the first week of December, Food and Wine week, and Spring break…”

As long as those posts still exist attached to thousands of points for rent, I will not fall for the new narrative that “actually Disney is the big bad renter we never knew about with their 20%”.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I suspect if DVC posted all the cash rooms booked with DVC points on Facebook, your opinion might change! We don’t have visibility of the amount of bookings they make… but it would be a whole lot more than the commercial renters on Facebook with 20% of all DVC points

It wouldn't. Those members got those rooms despite DVC renting rooms. Which leads me to believe DVC isnt renting ALL the desirable times. I think this is a huge distraction from the commercial renting enterprises. DVC has ALWAYS had the ability to rent rooms and availability has become more and more of an issue once social media renting became a thing. Just like resale has became much more widely used and now we have this $500 fee. Social media is fueling the things. DVC isnt the bad guy here.

 

[BeachClub2014]

It wouldn't. Those members got those rooms despite DVC renting rooms. Which leads me to believe DVC isnt renting ALL the desirable times. I think this is a huge distraction from the commercial renting enterprises. DVC has ALWAYS had the ability to rent rooms and availability has become more and more of an issue once social media renting became a thing. Just like resale has became much more widely used and now we have this $500 fee. Social media is fueling the things. DVC isnt the bad guy here.

I agree with you that DVC isn't the "bad guy" for engaging in commercial rentals. We all knew that they did so. The surprise, for me at least, is the volume. I would have never guessed they account for 20% of total point utilization.

 

[JackosinDIS]

It wouldn't. Those members got those rooms despite DVC renting rooms. Which leads me to believe DVC isnt renting ALL the desirable times. I think this is a huge distraction from the commercial renting enterprises. DVC has ALWAYS had the ability to rent rooms and availability has become more and more of an issue once social media renting became a thing. Just like resale has became much more widely used and now we have this $500 fee. Social media is fueling the things. DVC isnt the bad guy here.

Just to clarify, I don’t think DVC is a bad guy at all. They are perfectly entitled to to rent the rooms where points are exchanged. I was just very surprised that this accounts for 20% of all DVC points usage. My guess would have been 2 or 3%! It doesn’t detract from the fact that there are undoubtedly owners that rent commercially, but we can’t honestly say that DVC using 1/5 of all the points in the system to book rooms to rent for cash doesn’t have some affect on availability. Or maybe they wait until after the 11 month mark and only pick up the less desirable rooms to rent for cash bookings? Possible I suppose.