18 yr old is suing parents for college education

[4luv2cdisney]

OK, I know that I'm behind, and I may be a bit strange (and I don't think that the daughter is going to win much- if anything)...

BUT

I'm reading through the Mom's deposition, and got to the part where they took the trip to Vegas and left the girls in the care of the now 18 year old and I'm like

You KNOW she's been acting up, you KNOW she's been partying like crazy, you KNOW she's been running around with the boyfriend.... and instead of actually having the grandfather (who would make them do chores and enforce rules) you leave them alone with neighbors to watch? And then are surprised when she gets in trouble at the Homecoming Dance?

Um..... yeah.....

My parents would have had us moved in with the grandparents, not the grandparents coming to us, and too bad if *we* didn't like it.

I thought so, too! I mean, they said they found out about an "alcohol rage" she was planning before they left!! WOW!

I also noticed that on one hand the parents say this all came on suddenly (like when the boyfriend cam onto the scene) but their statement includes a situation involving stealing, sneaking out, and alcohol consumption dating back to 2011. Also, in telling about another boyfriend she had freshman year, that they drove her there every week and later found out there were alcohol parties there regularly. As freshman.

I also didn't think the email from the dad was the "come back home, just follow the rules" he claims. He mentions her needing to go to counseling "before coming home". And then "there are other things we can address if we get closer...."

Bottom line: I just don't think the parents are being completely truthful either.

I'm not typically a "it's the parents fault" kind of gal, but I do believe some of the girls allegations. The parents admit to spoiling her and being lenient with rules and I think they should take some of the responsibility for that.

I don't understand why the evidence the daughter has submitted isn't being shown with the court documents. We get to see the emails, transcript from the voicemail, and DCFS (or whatever its called in NJ) letters that the parents submitted, but none of the exhibits referenced in the daughters statement. Why?!

There are several documents I'd like to see, but especially the statement from the teacher that overheard the phone conversation when the parents were in Vegas. Were the parents as nasty as the daughter in the voicemail?

I don't think it's going to matter. I doubt they will set a legal precedent that allows kids to sue their parents for college tuition.

I just don't think you can point a finger at the "spoiled brat" without pointing a finger at the ones who spoiled her.

 

[Disney Doll]

You're right. They created the monster. Frankly we, as a society, are creating the monsters.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

You're right. They created the monster. Frankly we, as a society, are creating the monsters.

News flash parents... When you raise a generation of entitled spoiled brats who have never heard the word no, who have never not made a team, who have ALWAYS gotten awards for participating, who you have protected from having the normal life disappointments happen to...guess what you get?

A generation of entitled spoiled brats. We reap what we sow.

These two comments are quite negative and borderline offensive.

How have you dealt with balancing good self-esteem vs. discipline with your kids? Any particular philosophy you follow? My kids are young, so I'm looking for any advice from been-there, done-that parents who've personally navigated the teen years...and what to do in early adolescence to pave the way for a smoother road.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

You're right. They created the monster. Frankly we, as a society, are creating the monsters.

My opinion was only in reference to this case.

In general, I think there are more good kids than bad. I also don't think that paying for a child's education is spoiling them. I get tired of all the "old folks" trying to tell me how they supported themselves at 18, put themselves through college, blah, blah, blah and kids of today should, too.
Bull. They (we) had it much easier financially. Run the math.

The year my FIL graduated HS, he could gross his college tuition, room and board at a good local state college by working 4 hours per week at a minimum wage job. So, working about 20 hours a week, he could have paid for his own car expenses, his college, his personal expenses, etc. Probably would have needed to live with mom and dad in the summers, but otherwise wouldn't have needed much of their support.

The year I graduated HS, that same college would take me 20 hours per week at minimum wage to gross the tuition, room, board, and fees. So, that is to gross college expenses, so clearly loans would be necessary.

A kid graduating this year, would need to work 67 hours per week (straight time) at min. wage, for the same school.

College or some form of higher education is becoming as necessary today as a high school education was to previous generations. I may have no legal obligation to provide my child with a college education, but I do feel it is my responsibility to provide her with the tools she needs to be a productive member of society. Things like (gasp) providing a car so she can get to and from work and funding her college (to the best of my ability) is in no way, shape or form spoiling. It is simply getting her to a point where the older generations were at 18. That 20 hour per week job like Grandpa had, will hopefully pay for my kids gas, insurance, parking pass, estimated car repairs (this amount to be paid to me to hold in savings for that purpose), a $20 per week or less spending allowance, her cell phone (flame away, but I will not let her be without one), charitable contributions, and her own shoes / clothing. I had my accountant run those numbers for me and I believe them to be realistic and it will be a tight budget that teaches her how to be frugal.

Also, if she wants to go to a college I cannot afford to fully fund, she will still have loans.......if she can get them based on our household income. And of course, I can only hope she can actually find that minimum wage job that will give her an average of 20 hours per week.

 

[JanaDee]

These two comments are quite negative and borderline offensive.

How have you dealt with balancing good self-esteem vs. discipline with your kids? Any particular philosophy you follow? My kids are young, so I'm looking for any advice from been-there, done-that parents who've personally navigated the teen years...and what to do in early adolescence to pave the way for a smoother road.

She doesn't have kids, as you may have guessed.

 

[jrmasm]

In general, I think there are more good kids than bad.

Of course there are but it is way more fun to talk about the bad ones!

 

[JanaDee]

My opinion was only in reference to this case.

In general, I think there are more good kids than bad. I also don't think that paying for a child's education is spoiling them. I get tired of all the "old folks" trying to tell me how they supported themselves at 18, put themselves through college, blah, blah, blah and kids of today should, too.
Bull. They (financially) had it much easier. Run the math.

The year my FIL graduated HS, he could gross his college tuition, room and board at a good local state college by working 4 hours per week at a minimum wage job. So, working about 20 hours a week, he could have paid for his own car expenses, his college, his personal expenses, etc. Probably would have needed to live with mom and dad in the summers, but otherwise wouldn't have needed much of their support.

The year I graduated HS, that same college would take me 20 hours per week at minimum wage to gross the tuition, room, board, and fees. So, that is to gross college expenses, so clearly loans would be necessary.

A kid graduating this year, would need to work 67 hours per week (straight time) at min. wage, for the same school.

College or some form of higher education is becoming as necessary today as a high school education was to previous generations. I may have no legal obligation to provide my child with a college education, but I do feel it is my responsibility to provide her with the tools she needs to be a productive member of society. Things like (gasp) providing a car so she can get to and from work and funding her college (to the best of my ability) is in no way, shape or form spoiling. It is simply getting her to a point where the older generations were at 18. That 20 hour per week job like Grandpa had, will hopefully pay for my kids gas, insurance, parking pass, estimated car repairs (this amount to be paid to me to hold in savings for that purpose), a $20 per week or less spending allowance, her cell phone (flame away, but I will not let her be without one), charitable contributions, and her own shoes / clothing. I had my accountant run those numbers for me and I believe them to be realistic and it will be a tight budget that teaches her how to be frugal.

Also, if she wants to go to a college I cannot afford to fully fund, she will still have loans.......if she can get them based on our household income. And of course, I can only hope she can actually find that minimum wage job that will give her an average of 20 hours per week.

Great point. Since DH and I attended college, our alma mater has doubled in cost in that time (18 years).

 

[GrnMtnMan]

She doesn't have kids, as you may have guessed.

Then they're just plain offensive.

If any of you have ever seen, heard, or performed in Bye Bye Birdie, you'll recognize the lyrics below. They were written in 1963 (or earlier), so the generation of kids being complained about in this song are now starting to have grand children.

Kids!
I don't know what's wrong with these kids today!
Kids!
Who can understand anything they say?
Kids!
They a disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
While we're on the subject:
Kids!
You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
Kids!
But they still just do what they want to do!
Why can't they be like we were,
Perfect in every way?
What's the matter with kids today?
Kids!
I've tried to raise him the best I could
Kids! Kids!
Laughing, singing, dancing, grinning, morons!
And while we're on the subject!
Kids! They are just impossible to control!
Kids! With their awful clothes and their rock an' roll!
Why can't they dance like we did
What's wrong with Sammy Caine?
What's the matter with kids today!

 

[EMode]

My opinion was only in reference to this case.

In general, I think there are more good kids than bad. I also don't think that paying for a child's education is spoiling them. I get tired of all the "old folks" trying to tell me how they supported themselves at 18, put themselves through college, blah, blah, blah and kids of today should, too.
Bull. They (we) had it much easier financially. Run the math.

The year my FIL graduated HS, he could gross his college tuition, room and board at a good local state college by working 4 hours per week at a minimum wage job. So, working about 20 hours a week, he could have paid for his own car expenses, his college, his personal expenses, etc. Probably would have needed to live with mom and dad in the summers, but otherwise wouldn't have needed much of their support.

The year I graduated HS, that same college would take me 20 hours per week at minimum wage to gross the tuition, room, board, and fees. So, that is to gross college expenses, so clearly loans would be necessary.

A kid graduating this year, would need to work 67 hours per week (straight time) at min. wage, for the same school.

College or some form of higher education is becoming as necessary today as a high school education was to previous generations. I may have no legal obligation to provide my child with a college education, but I do feel it is my responsibility to provide her with the tools she needs to be a productive member of society. Things like (gasp) providing a car so she can get to and from work and funding her college (to the best of my ability) is in no way, shape or form spoiling. It is simply getting her to a point where the older generations were at 18. That 20 hour per week job like Grandpa had, will hopefully pay for my kids gas, insurance, parking pass, estimated car repairs (this amount to be paid to me to hold in savings for that purpose), a $20 per week or less spending allowance, her cell phone (flame away, but I will not let her be without one), charitable contributions, and her own shoes / clothing. I had my accountant run those numbers for me and I believe them to be realistic and it will be a tight budget that teaches her how to be frugal.

Also, if she wants to go to a college I cannot afford to fully fund, she will still have loans.......if she can get them based on our household income. And of course, I can only hope she can actually find that minimum wage job that will give her an average of 20 hours per week.

You make great points and I agree with almost everything you say, except I don't consider myself and old folk, I'm only 40

The girl suing her parents does sound like a spoiled brat, she wants her parents to fully support her yet does not want to abide by the rules set by them. That is what makes her a spoiled rotten brat, she feels she is entitled to get what she wants with zero responsibility in return. Your definition of spoiled may be different, but that is what mine is. It has nothing to do with paying for college, or providing a car, it has to do with the entitlement mentality of the up coming generation.

 

[vttkdmom]

I left home at 18, didn't like my mom's rules. She did the "my way or highway" and I chose to move out. I got my own apartment, worked full time at a minimum wage retail job at night, went to community college and worked a second part time job in the summer.

Once I moved out, I never asked my mom for a penny. I was way to stubborn to move back home, even tho I lived on bologna and peanut butter.

I have to say, my mom respected that I stood up and became an adult, paid my own way and got my degree.

The first year was tough, my FAFSA used her numbers so I got less money, but by the second year I could use my own income and did OK.

Of course this was in 1983, when you could actually pay your own way thru college without a huge debt.

 

[gwynne]

I left home at 18, didn't like my mom's rules. She did the "my way or highway" and I chose to move out. I got my own apartment, worked full time at a minimum wage retail job at night, went to community college and worked a second part time job in the summer.

Once I moved out, I never asked my mom for a penny. I was way to stubborn to move back home, even tho I lived on bologna and peanut butter.

I have to say, my mom respected that I stood up and became an adult, paid my own way and got my degree.

The first year was tough, my FAFSA used her numbers so I got less money, but by the second year I could use my own income and did OK.

Of course this was in 1983, when you could actually pay your own way thru college without a huge debt.

The FAFSA rules were far more lenient then. That was good it worked out for you at that time.

 

[NotUrsula]

Off topic, but it would never have occurred to me that "Jaime" could be said as Jamie (Jay-me.)

I assumed it was High-may.

Jaime (jay-me) became a girl's name in non-Hispanic areas largely because of a 1970's TV show: the Bionic Woman. That was the name of Lindsay Wagner's character.

Thanks to the huge popularity at the time (it remained in the top 100 girls names for the entire four-year run of the show, peaking at #29), it has been adopted throughout much of the US as the feminine spelling.

 

[minnie mum]

Just saw a Yahoo news thingy that says the judge has denied the request that the parents continue support. Good.

 

[Arielle22]

These two comments are quite negative and borderline offensive.

How have you dealt with balancing good self-esteem vs. discipline with your kids? Any particular philosophy you follow? My kids are young, so I'm looking for any advice from been-there, done-that parents who've personally navigated the teen years...and what to do in early adolescence to pave the way for a smoother road.

I have raised 2 DDs, 18 and 20 who are both in college. When they did well in something, we praised them. A simple "good job". If they didn't work to their potential we told them we knew they could do better and needed to try harder.

Apart from that, we made them understand that as a member of the family, they had certain responsibilities just like myself and DH did. Basic chores and picking up after themselves. If they didn't follow rules, they were disciplined via time outs or losing extras. It started when they were first walking. They had to help pick up whatever toys they were playing with. To this day we sing the Barney clean up song when picking things up.

My DDs were lucky in that I have 7 siblings but the 8 children we have among us are spread apart in age. So the children got plenty of love, affection, attention and presents (including travel) from their aunts and uncles.

To keep them grounded, DH and I would tell them stories of our childhood. We were loved by our parents but didn't have as much material possessions. Just the thought of sharing 1 bathroom with 10 other people or a bedroom with 3 sisters (as I did) was enough to stop their complaining.

I have an old school approach but it worked well for us. Both girls receive scholarships and on the Dean's List. We can't ask for more than that.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I have raised 2 DDs, 18 and 20 who are both in college. When they did well in something, we praised them. A simple "good job". If they didn't work to their potential we told them we knew they could do better and needed to try harder.

Apart from that, we made them understand that as a member of the family, they had certain responsibilities just like myself and DH did. Basic chores and picking up after themselves. If they didn't follow rules, they were disciplined via time outs or losing extras. It started when they were first walking. They had to help pick up whatever toys they were playing with. To this day we sing the Barney clean up song when picking things up.

My DDs were lucky in that I have 7 siblings but the 8 children we have among us are spread apart in age. So the children got plenty of love, affection, attention and presents (including travel) from their aunts and uncles.

To keep them grounded, DH and I would tell them stories of our childhood. We were loved by our parents but didn't have as much material possessions. Just the thought of sharing 1 bathroom with 10 other people or a bedroom with 3 sisters (as I did) was enough to stop their complaining.

I have an old school approach but it worked well for us. Both girls receive scholarships and on the Dean's List. We can't ask for more than that.

Thanks. Sounds like common sense.

 

[LisaInNc]

I saw it a little differently. My story could have been close.

My Mother insisted I went to Catholic School it was all girls and at first I didn't like it. I assimilated and I did ok. This was her choice not mine.

Fast forward to senior year. I am entrenched and I have friends and I like where I am. Mom gets a new boyfriend and basically forgets I am there. Every penny she spend on me is one penny she doesn't to spend on the new lifestyle. I rapidly become a bother.

In private school you have to buy your own books. My "Mother" said to me just before senior year "you are almost an adult get your own". I worked at Burger King and I think minimum wage was around 3.35 and my books cost around 30.00 each. I didn't buy them. I just didn't have the money. I probably foolishly spent it each week during the summer on I don't know what. I never thought I would have to buy my own books. Maybe I was entitled. I just thought I would have books every year.

Senior year without books was a challenge. I borrowed books where I could. I did ok but it was a challenge. I thought I was going to college. Everyone in my school was going to college. My "Mother" laughed at me when I told her I thought I was going.

When I read that story I felt for that child. I am not at all a liberal but I saw a child that was well established in her school and it seemed like the parents changed the rules. It seemed to me like they were going through something and she she was a bother. I lived it. Suddenly I was a bother. WHY was I waking my "Mother" up for lunch money when she had been up late going out. My school did not give any type of free lunch and I was someone that was "used" to eating lunch. WHY was I mad that she was borrowing all my clothes. What that girl whould want to just finish high school in the school her parent put her in.

There was a threat at all times if I did not "be quiet" tuition would not be paid. At one time the gem of a parent I had threatened to break up me and my boyfriend that I had for 2 years if her her boyfriend got any inkling that I was unhappy.

College was something my "Mother" laughed at me when I mentioned it. I was one two kids in my graduating class that didn't go. My "Mother" didn't fill out the student forms correctly and I got not a single dollar of aid. I was embarrassed and it was a difficult question that my friends parents would ask me about where I was going to school. I guess it was implied that I was going somewhere. I knew she was not going to pay for it and the honest truth is I went to a school where I just didn't know HOW to pay for it. Everyone else had their parents pay. I knew nothing about the Pell Grant or loans. I just knew that at 17 I could not write the check that the college I wanted to go to demanded.

I could have been that girl. Uniform and all. What I did was move in with a friend and her parents. They had an extra room, I was no trouble and I cooked really well and voila I had a place to stay. This is well before the internet and things going viral.

You can sensationalize it all you want.

I saw a child that might have had a story like mine. Mom is reuniting with her Father. Great until they don't want you around. That story sounded so much like mine I could not believe it. Ever day I dreaded that she was going to tell me I was going to have to pay tuition. I KNOW that it was a private school and I was lucky to be there but by senior year all I wanted was just to finish. I wanted to finish with my friends and the teachers that I loved.

The difference is I stuck it out, I got an apartment at 18 and a good job when I graduated from high school and at 47 I am working toward my degree. No child support involved.

Had a known a few lawyers it might have been a different story and if you read the story she is being "influenced" by an attorney and I am going to bet his practice is going to be remembered more than this this high school student is going to be.

Lisa

 

[gwynne]

I saw it a little differently. My story could have been close.

My Mother insisted I went to Catholic School it was all girls and at first I didn't like it. I assimilated and I did ok. This was her choice not mine.

Fast forward to senior year. I am entrenched and I have friends and I like where I am. Mom gets a new boyfriend and basically forgets I am there. Every penny she spend on me is one penny she doesn't to spend on the new lifestyle. I rapidly become a bother.

In private school you have to buy your own books. My "Mother" said to me just before senior year "you are almost an adult get your own". I worked at Burger King and I think minimum wage was around 3.35 and my books cost around 30.00 each. I didn't buy them. I just didn't have the money. I probably foolishly spent it each week during the summer on I don't know what. I never thought I would have to buy my own books. Maybe I was entitled. I just thought I would have books every year.

Senior year without books was a challenge. I borrowed books where I could. I did ok but it was a challenge. I thought I was going to college. Everyone in my school was going to college. My "Mother" laughed at me when I told her I thought I was going.

When I read that story I felt for that child. I am not at all a liberal but I saw a child that was well established in her school and it seemed like the parents changed the rules. It seemed to me like they were going through something and she she was a bother. I lived it. Suddenly I was a bother. WHY was I waking my "Mother" up for lunch money when she had been up late going out. My school did not give any type of free lunch and I was someone that was "used" to eating lunch. WHY was I mad that she was borrowing all my clothes. What that girl whould want to just finish high school in the school her parent put her in.

I could have been that girl. Uniform and all. What I did was move in with a friend and her parents. They had an extra room, I was no trouble and I cooked really well and voila I had a place to stay. This is well before the internet and things going viral.

You can sensationalize it all you want.

I saw a child that might have had a story like mine. Mom is reuniting with her Father. Great until they don't want you around. That story sounded so much like mine I could not believe it. Ever day I dreaded that she was going to tell me I was going to have to pay tuition. I KNOW that it was a private school and I was lucky to be there but by senior year all I wanted was just to finish. I wanted to finish with my friends and the teachers that I loved.

The difference is I stuck it out, I got an apartment at 18 and a good job when I graduated from high school and at 47 I am working toward my degree. No child support involved.

Had a known a few lawyers it might have been a different story and if you read the story she is being "influenced" by an attorney and I am going to bet his practice is going to be remembered more than this this high school student is going to be.

Lisa

Oh my goodness, what you went through. You showed such courage, and took it a day at a time. And three cheers for you as you work toward your degree!

 

[disneydee6]

I've been following this case on and off. Not just on here, but many other places I see people talk about "kids" these days have an "entitlement." Obviously that isn't true for everyone, and entitled kids come in all shapes and forms. But I do see things happening for younger generations.

I think my generation was the beginning of the 'cell phone' generation. I saw my friend get bullied via the first form of social media (live journal). We had texting fighting, but it was on AIM. What is funny to me is that when I was that age (lets say 14-18) I hardly used those BECAUSE it was a means to BE MEAN! Everyone I knew was getting in fights on AIM, insulting people anonymously on live journal, I didn't want to be a part to it or subject myself to it, so I rarely used it. I never felt like I was missing out. Your 15 year old does not NEED a Facebook. They WANT a Facebook.

I had to EARN a cell phone, the rule was: If you are responsible enough for a job, you can be responsible for a phone. I got a phone at 15, when I got my first job, for my sisters and I, it was a right of passage. And I think KNOWING that I earned that trust was SO valuable, so I made sure not to abuse that trust, because I had earned it.
How can you teach kids responsibility when it isn't earned in the first place? Why would they do things for themselves (get a job, earn money) when parents GIVE IT TO THEM? They're kids. They need the motivation!

Many parents still give cell phones to their kids to be in contact, but we all survived without them at 12, your kid can too! I survived going to the grocery store and many other errands with my parents without a cell phone inches from my face, why does your kid need it? Just sayin...

Sorry for the rant, but there is a reason why this case is happening. There is an entitlement that kids these days feel, when they are given responsibilities they are not mature enough to handle. There is a reason why cyber bullying is rampant, there is a reason why we see poll cartoons like this:


I even felt the entitlement. After 4 years of college, two jobs offered then redacted after budget issues, I felt like after all my hard work, I deserved a job darn it! But my graduating class only saw 20% jobs out of college, meaning after 4 years, 80% of the people graduating did not have a job lined up. A generation before mine did not have issues like this. College meant being able to get a job, it does not mean that now. This was a hard concept for me to swallow when I first graduated.

HOWEVER, I wanted to go to college. I PAID FOR COLLEGE. I found a way, state schools, applying for many scholarships, there are ways you can go to school without suing your parents.

So just like there are kids that feel entitled, there are also many that do well, that get taught responsibility, that LEARN.

RANT OVER. Back to business.

 

[NHdisneylover]

These two comments are quite negative and borderline offensive.

How have you dealt with balancing good self-esteem vs. discipline with your kids? Any particular philosophy you follow? My kids are young, so I'm looking for any advice from been-there, done-that parents who've personally navigated the teen years...and what to do in early adolescence to pave the way for a smoother road.

As a PP pointed out, Disney Doll does not have children. She also has a history of posting extremely negative views about children and teens (and parents) on almost every thread that mentions children at all.

As a mother of two teens; I think a lot depends on the particular child and their personality--parenting is just not a one size fits all thing.

I also really think things are much easier on everyone involved when parents see their job as primarily about guiding and teaching and helping their kids grow into themselves and not about controlling and molding their kids into some preconceived idea of who they should be.

 

[disykat]

Jaime (jay-me) became a girl's name in non-Hispanic areas largely because of a 1970's TV show: the Bionic Woman. That was the name of Lindsay Wagner's character.

Thanks to the huge popularity at the time (it remained in the top 100 girls names for the entire four-year run of the show, peaking at #29), it has been adopted throughout much of the US as the feminine spelling.

Interesting. I watched the Bionic Woman all the time, but it never occurred to me how her name was spelled. All the Jamie's I knew in real life spelled their names as Jamie, so I just assumed...