11 year old acting strange

[Pea-n-Me]

I find it interesting that many people on this thread automatically jump to the idea that the OP's SD might have Autism. No wonder Autism is such a growing diagnosis. I've studied this in a post-Master's program (diagnosis of various mental illnesses) and Autism is a highly diagnosed and mis-diagnosed illness because it has become the "accepted" disability. Why? Just read this thread and you'll see that people tend to focus on how "smart" or "brilliant" people with Autism are or can be.

On the contrary, most people with Autism have mental retardation aka developmental disabilities. Those with Asperberger's sp! Syndrome have an average to above average IQ which is what separates them from those with regular Autism. From the OP's post I have not come to the conclusion that this child has a high IQ.

I don't know that the OP has had her DD's IQ measured, but she did mention that her DD is very smart (yet can't complete her homework despite hours of effort). But I think people were looking more at some of the oddities of her behavior than her IQ. One poster with an Aspie child even mentioned her child didn't fit the profile exactly, either (as is often the case; these don't always fit in a nice little package, as I'm sure you know). The OP was looking for ideas and she got some. I don't think anyone was trying to diagnose the child, just offer suggestions. If it doesn't fit, they will rule it out. I'm not sure I can agree with

No wonder Autism is such a growing diagnosis

I mean, do you think doctors will make a diagnosis like this without substantial evidence for such? I know in the case of my family member, it actually took years to get the diagnosis. Definitely not something taken lightly, and a relief to parents to have a name for something that's so disconcerting in their child.

Thinking about the birth mother leads me to think there are other issues, but I'm not going to go into what I think because I don't know this girl at all.

I think this is a valid point, and brought it up myself as well. I, for one, would be interested in hearing at least a little bit more of your thoughts on it.

 

[kirstenb1]

I find it interesting that many people on this thread automatically jump to the idea that the OP's SD might have Autism. No wonder Autism is such a growing diagnosis. I've studied this in a post-Master's program (diagnosis of various mental illnesses) and Autism is a highly diagnosed and mis-diagnosed illness because it has become the "accepted" disability. Why? Just read this thread and you'll see that people tend to focus on how "smart" or "brilliant" people with Autism are or can be.

On the contrary, most people with Autism have mental retardation aka developmental disabilities. Those with Asperberger's Syndrome have an average to above average IQ which is what separates them from those with regular Autism. From the OP's post I have not come to the conclusion that this child has a high IQ.

OP, don't try to pre-diagnose your SD. I realize you are asking for help, but then you get all kinds of different suggestions and most people will fall onto the Autism bandwagon. Thinking about the birth mother leads me to think there are other issues, but I'm not going to go into what I think because I don't know this girl at all.

Good luck, OP. As others have said, your SD is lucky to have you. Don't look backwards, just move forward. Oh, and my DD used to be (and sometimes still is) the biggest slob around. When she was in the 6th grade it was an ordeal every night to get her to take a shower. Then one day out of the blue, I heard the shower turn on without the "fight." Then I heard it again the next night, and the next night, etc... Now she wouldn't be caught dead without showering and spending an hour getting ready to go out. Your DD may not be there yet, but with proper guidance and a good dose of hormones (interest in boys), she will hopefully get there. Maybe not as soon as you hope, so hang in there![/QUOTE




Be careful here. Autism is not a growing dx because all of we parents are rushing in looking for it. I would say a large part of the growth is due to non-verbal IQ tests, which really enhanced testing for the non-verbal population. As you know, unfortunately, many people with autism have difficulty with communication. These individuals did very poorly on previous IQ tests, and probably were labeled mentally retarded 20 years ago.

Also, the numbers are growing for reasons that no one, not even experts can pinpoint. Now you are correct, in that many people with autism, I've read stats reporting as high as forty percent, are cognitively disabled. People without personal experience with autism often have a "savant" stereotype such as the movie Rainman. The children I've met with autism, including our own dd, do not have some compensatory genius, that makes up for her communication, sensory, and perseverative behavior deficits. This does not mean that others do not have a different experience.

I also agree that we cannot dx her daughter, which is why my post stated that, and suggested going to see a developmental ped.

 

[shortbun]

Hi. I think you have many issues to work through. Maybe get to a therapist and talk it over-just you, so you can get some clarity about what you think is most important. A few visits ought to do it. It's so great to have someone to bounce things off of. I would not stress over the messy room right now. If there's no food growing mold, insects or horrible smells into the rest of the house, lay off. I'd be paying attention to the meds issue and the OCD/autism type stuff. I might consider figuring out how to broach the subject of bio versus adopted mom sometime soon. In my experience, teens and adults who discover certain truths feel betrayed by not having been dealt with honestly.
Look, this is all about staying calm but taking steps to discover how to help your daughter.

 

[cm8]

I hope that your DD finds the right combo of meds to help her navigate through this awkward stage she is in. Maybe her hormones are activating so it's not mixing with the meds at this point. At any rate, I think you should find her a new Doctor, one that cares what your DD is going through

 

[Aisling]

I'm reading this with much interest because, except for the biological, drug addicted mother, my 12 year old niece is the same way.

She's sociable when necessary, is intelligent when speaking, is loving, BUT she's in la la land a lot of the time. Forgets she has homework, is a mess with her school papers, can't hear a bomb drop if she's watching TV like she's in a trance or so focused that everything else is shut out , likes to be alone, she'll eat and have crumbs all over her and not notice of care, she's constantly singing either out loud of whispering, she's always trying to be a pleaser but she works herself into anxiety when someone corrects her and she just can't seem to get herslef together. I'm a little worried about her. She was diagnosed with ADD but went off her meds when it seemed to make her worse. She needs a lot of praise or she feels depressed. One good outstanding thing is that she is an excellent helper when it comes to helping her mom with her 3 your old brother. She somehow clicks and becomes an excellent babysitter while mom's cooking or doing whatever.

OP, I'm not hijacking your thread with my niece's issues, but just want you to see you're not alone. My DB and SIL don't know what to do. They're Air Force and their choices of doctors are limited unless they go to an outside doctor.

I hope and pray you get your answers to help your little girl.

 

[IDoDis]

I don't know that the OP has had her DD's IQ measured, but she did mention that her DD is very smart (yet can't complete her homework despite hours of effort). But I think people were looking more at some of the oddities of her behavior than her IQ. One poster with an Aspie child even mentioned her child didn't fit the profile exactly, either (as is often the case; these don't always fit in a nice little package, as I'm sure you know). The OP was looking for ideas and she got some. I don't think anyone was trying to diagnose the child, just offer suggestions. If it doesn't fit, they will rule it out. I'm not sure I can agree with

I mean, do you think doctors will make a diagnosis like this without substantial evidence for such? I know in the case of my family member, it actually took years to get the diagnosis. Definitely not something taken lightly, and a relief to parents to have a name for something that's so disconcerting in their child.


I think this is a valid point, and brought it up myself as well. I, for one, would be interested in hearing at least a little bit more of your thoughts on it.

The Autism spectrum is fairly wide, thus increasing the possibility of a misdiagnosis. As mentioned earlier, a diagnosis doesn't fit into a neatly tied package which is part of the problem with getting an accurate diagnosis for people who have a higher functioning level of "autism."

I don't consider myself to be an expert by any means and I am not a doctor, nor a diagnostician. I have taught in Special Education for 19 years and worked for a university education department that specializes in MR & SD (Mental Retardation and Severe Disabilities). I've studied the "studies" on people diagnosed with Autism. I've studied the age groups, ethnicity groups of people diagnosed, and their family income levels. Autism has no boundaries of socio-economic status, or ethnicity.

I guess where I'm coming from is that I see all too often, children with social issues thrown into the "maybe she has autism" basket. There are sooooo many other possible disorders out there, but 7 out of 10 people will suggest "AUTISM" right from the get-go without knowing the vastness of other possibilities. I've had students whose parents for years thought their child had autism due to a previous diagnosis, only to find out when they reach their early teens or older that the diagnosis has changed.

I feel that the autism "spectrum" is too wide and too many people with other disorders are being painted with the broad brush of autism. That's all I'm saying.

 

[turkeymama]

She is lucky to have a loving mother in you, but she has had a lot of hard knocks in her short life. The brain makes many of it's important connections in the first two years of life, when it sounds like things were very instable for her. Your instinct is telling you that something is wrong, and although your doctor may be an excellent general doctor, he is not an expert in mental health. I would seek help from both a psychiatrist and a counselor.

This girl has a complicated past and YOU are going to need support in helping her face all those tough realities. I am an adoptive mom and had to do tons of classes before adopting. It is very common for children with her background to have issues throughout all the stages of their development. You just need help navigating through it all.

Best wishes!!

This! There could be more going on, but you touched on something that is absolutely important. I had a psychologist (former professor) tell me the first few years of life are when we learn to "be human", and the connections we make (or don't make) will go a long way in shaping personality.

I think the best advice is to stick with this until you find a doctor who will not brush these concerns to the side, AND to seek a therapist or counselor who can help the both of you navigate these issues.

 

[aprilgail2]

As an adoptive mother, this concerns me in a big, huge, glaring way.

As an adoptee this concerns me too! I would work on a therapist that can help you rectify this asap also!

 

[Cindy B]

The drug use of the bio mother jumped out at me. I work with 6th ,7th and 8th graders and I see most of those behaviors every day.. lots of anxiety, off behavior, spaciness, twitchyness, and a lot of finger manipulation (hand toys, squeeze balls, etc)

Most of the biological parents of these children were drug addicted. You hear the terms "crack baby" and such but I see the effects of long term drug use every day.

 

[treehugnmama]

Let's try not to get onto a heated discussion abautism as that won't help op

I work with young children with special needs so when my 6 year old dd was diagnosed with aspergers I thought no way but she is social I did t know much about aspergers in girls. Tony Attwood has a book on aspergers in girls and it was very helpful it described my daughter and yours to a tee from what you have described here. I have lots of info and please feel free to pm me. And just to address the intelligence thing my daughter is working above grade level and reads 2 grades above gr level. She hates taking a bath and forgets things mid task. Dr described her as a round peg we are trying to fit in a square hole so it isnt always clear cut. Most people even professionals have no idea my dd has any issues but as a mom
I know don't give up. It is so hard but once we got a diognosis and started using different strategies it got so much easier. Some dr will give a co diognosis of ADHD and others will not but that is another debate. My dd has both

I will not be returning to this thread as I can see it going into a nasty debate on autism. Good luck to you and if you have any questions please pm me

 

[beattyfamily]

The Autism spectrum is fairly wide, thus increasing the possibility of a misdiagnosis. As mentioned earlier, a diagnosis doesn't fit into a neatly tied package which is part of the problem with getting an accurate diagnosis for people who have a higher functioning level of "autism."

I don't consider myself to be an expert by any means and I am not a doctor, nor a diagnostician. I have taught in Special Education for 19 years and worked for a university education department that specializes in MR & SD (Mental Retardation and Severe Disabilities). I've studied the "studies" on people diagnosed with Autism. I've studied the age groups, ethnicity groups of people diagnosed, and their family income levels. Autism has no boundaries of socio-economic status, or ethnicity.

I guess where I'm coming from is that I see all too often, children with social issues thrown into the "maybe she has autism" basket. There are sooooo many other possible disorders out there, but 7 out of 10 people will suggest "AUTISM" right from the get-go without knowing the vastness of other possibilities. I've had students whose parents for years thought their child had autism due to a previous diagnosis, only to find out when they reach their early teens or older that the diagnosis has changed.

I feel that the autism "spectrum" is too wide and too many people with other disorders are being painted with the broad brush of autism. That's all I'm saying.

I see what you are saying but what people will suggest Autisum? Who would just throw that out there as a guess and lump a child into that category??

And what parent would 'want' that kind of diagnosis?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I will not be returning to this thread as I can see it going into a nasty debate on autism.

Hopefully not! I think it's fine to have a discussion about it - knowledge is power! Nobody's been nasty and everyone has a right to their opinion. I also think that when a professional who's worked with this type of thing takes the time to post their thoughts, it's good to take note, even if you might not agree completely. It's all good, as long as everyone remains respectful. No question it's an emotional issue when you're dealing with this. Even within families and among friends there can be disagreement/disapproval, so parents dealing with these issues have full plates as it is - understood.

BTW, I have no expertise whatsoever in the area of Autism or Asperger's, etc. I just have a family member who has Asperger's (and co-diagnoses) and was "along for the ride" as a support person to his parent for the past 20+ years, so I won't comment on anything other than that experience.

 

[beattyfamily]

Hey, OP. Hope all is well with you.

Was thinking of you and your DD and your post today.

Could you update us if you end up making any evaluation appointments or if you find out anything new?

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I find it interesting that many people on this thread automatically jump to the idea that the OP's SD might have Autism. No wonder Autism is such a growing diagnosis. I've studied this in a post-Master's program (diagnosis of various mental illnesses) and Autism is a highly diagnosed and mis-diagnosed illness because it has become the "accepted" disability. Why? Just read this thread and you'll see that people tend to focus on how "smart" or "brilliant" people with Autism are or can be.

On the contrary, most people with Autism have mental retardation aka developmental disabilities. Those with Asperberger's Syndrome have an average to above average IQ which is what separates them from those with regular Autism. From the OP's post I have not come to the conclusion that this child has a high IQ.

OP, don't try to pre-diagnose your SD. I realize you are asking for help, but then you get all kinds of different suggestions and most people will fall onto the Autism bandwagon. Thinking about the birth mother leads me to think there are other issues, but I'm not going to go into what I think because I don't know this girl at all.

Good luck, OP. As others have said, your SD is lucky to have you. Don't look backwards, just move forward. Oh, and my DD used to be (and sometimes still is) the biggest slob around. When she was in the 6th grade it was an ordeal every night to get her to take a shower. Then one day out of the blue, I heard the shower turn on without the "fight." Then I heard it again the next night, and the next night, etc... Now she wouldn't be caught dead without showering and spending an hour getting ready to go out. Your DD may not be there yet, but with proper guidance and a good dose of hormones (interest in boys), she will hopefully get there. Maybe not as soon as you hope, so hang in there!

I have to very strongly disagree.... with almost every thing in the above post.

 

[turkeymama]

I have to very strongly disagree.... with almost every thing in the above post.

I agree with you.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html

What separates Autism from Aspergers is the presence of meaningful speech. Autistics do not normally possess language and/or adequate communication skills. Those with Aspergers do not experience the same deficits in language skills. Mental retardation is its own separate diagnosis and is not often associated with autistics. Developmental delays may or may not occur in people with ASD. However, people with ASD usually have normal self-help skills, but this is not the case in MR individuals.

 

[stinkerbelle's mom]

I wouldn't worry too much, you might be too close to the situation to see how dd's behaviors effect her.

She does sound a lot like my ds. He was on concerta for it. Personally I think concerta is the best med ever. Don't worry about her being too thin, but a dr should be monitering that along with her meds every 3 months. I would recommend seeing a therapist too-- big help. I wouldn't see a psychiatrist-- in our case they did nothing for my ds except just wanted to drug him up. He also has anxiety & she justed wanted him on prozac. Psych wasn't happy when I had the pediatrician take over control of the meds.

 

[zurgswife]

The only suggestion I would make is move to a child psychitrist to evaluate your SD with regards to any type of DD. While a regular doctor is great I think ADHD or ADD, aspergers, depression etc. needs to be diagnosised and treated by someone specializing in those type of disorders.

I have had 2 of my kids involved in psychiatric care as children one bi-polar and one with aspergers; and a competent psychiatrist makes all the difference in the treatment.

 

[IDoDis]

I agree with you.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html

What separates Autism from Aspergers is the presence of meaningful speech. Autistics do not normally possess language and/or adequate communication skills. Those with Aspergers do not experience the same deficits in language skills. Mental retardation is its own separate diagnosis and is not often associated with autistics. Developmental delays may or may not occur in people with ASD. However, people with ASD usually have normal self-help skills, but this is not the case in MR individuals.

I am referring to people with "low functioning autism" where an IQ below 70 (or possibly in the low range over 70) is more the norm. Sometimes it's surprising when an IQ score comes back in the MR range where the teachers are all scratching their heads saying, "Really?" You would not pick them out in a crowd.

People with other forms of autism that fall along the spectrum (High Functioning Autism and Asperger's) do have average to above average IQ's. I also fully understand that it is difficult to get accurate IQ scores on the DSM-IV-TR and the ICD-10 which BTW, diagnoses an autistic disorder, and not other forms of high functioning autism.

It has been argued extensively that there IS a risk of the diagnosis of autism happening to people who have odd personalities and who do not fit into some other category. This over-use of the label may in time devalue the diagnosis.

I don't want to change the OP's thread to a debate on autism. My point to the OP was to not jump to conclusions based on responses from a message board. Of course she can't diagnose her SD, but she should not worry about "what if's" and speculations until she gets her SD evaluated. I just found it "interesting" that most people jump on the autism bandwagon right out of the gate. That is all.

 

[turkeymama]

I am referring to people with "low functioning autism" where an IQ below 70 (or possibly in the low range over 70) is more the norm. Sometimes it's surprising when an IQ score comes back in the MR range where the teachers are all scratching their heads saying, "Really?" You would not pick them out in a crowd.

People with other forms of autism that fall along the spectrum (High Functioning Autism and Asperger's) do have average to above average IQ's. I also fully understand that it is difficult to get accurate IQ scores on the DSM-IV-TR and the ICD-10 which BTW, diagnoses an autistic disorder, and not other forms of high functioning autism.

It has been argued extensively that there IS a risk of the diagnosis of autism happening to people who have odd personalities and who do not fit into some other category. This over-use of the label may in time devalue the diagnosis.

I don't want to change the OP's thread to a debate on autism. My point to the OP was to not jump to conclusions based on responses from a message board. Of course she can't diagnose her SD, but she should not worry about "what if's" and speculations until she gets her SD evaluated. I just found it "interesting" that most people jump on the autism bandwagon right out of the gate. That is all.

Agreed on both.

 

[Tigger2252]

OP, after reading the entire thread I thought I would chime in. My DD is 17 (18 in November). Aside from the knotting of clothes she exhibited many of your DD's traits. She was diagnosed with ADHD in 3rd grade. Over the years she has done many bizarre things that we have no explanation for. Kids with ADD/ADHD commonly have OCD tendancies though.

She went through a stage where she would glue batteries together, she would cut all the heads of the flowers in the garden and line them up under the front window, she would hide food (we would routinely have to check her closet for her sandwiches as she would stack them up in a neat pile in the closet). The scariest one was lighting candles in her closet! For a few years she saved the packets from hot cocoa (she had a small thing with drawers in it and she would put the ripped tops in one drawer and the empty packet in another). She was easily frustrated and would blow up. At one point we took her bedroom door off because she broke the door casing by slamming it. I could go on but this post is probably going to be too long as it is.

She also had a very difficult time forming and maintaining friendships because frankly ADHD children wear people out. For several years she would take things from friends/family that didn't belong to her (no impulse control at all). Her explanation was that "she didn't have one and wanted one". I lived in fear that she would shoplift, but thankfully she never did. I would not let her go into a store alone though. We put a lock on her sister's bedroom door to keep her from taking her sister's belongings.

Her room could best be described as a Hazardous Waste Area. There was no telling what you would find in there. I would generally go in twice a year with a box of garbage bags and hoe it out. I can't even describe how disgusting it could be. The thing is the room gets to be too much and they don't even know where to start. I would clean it when she was gone to avoid the hysteria, and she would come home and it would be done. Surprisingly she was always happy I did it. As long as she didn't SEE me doing it.

But, we got through it and as she has matured the bizzare habits have disappeared for the most part (she still has some OCD tendancies). She is on Strattera because Concerta caused her to tic. She is very thin and small though (4'11" 90 lbs.). It is not uncommon for ADHD kids to mature late. In fact I think it probably is the norm. I have seen the most psychological growth in her the past year or so. School has always been a struggle and probably will be for your DD. Helping them stay organized and being involved with the teachers is the key (she still gets a weekly progress report). She is now a Junior and is doing well and is on schedule to graduate next year.

Don't hesitate to try a different medication or get a second opinion. As her mother you know her better than anyone. Good luck.