You must be swift as the coursing river (as long as it's the Lazy River) - comments welcome

[striker1064]

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Race recap: DC Half
Washington, DC | September 17, 2023
In which I am...kind of stunned?

I ran a race! It's a little hard to know where to start (see above re: stunned), but I guess I will start at the beginning as usual.

Pre-race
The one thing I want to say about packet pickup is that if you're going to have only one location, do not put it in the absolute most difficult and annoying place to get to in DC, i.e. Georgetown. At least I got to pick up a sandwich and focaccia from Green Almond Pantry and a couple of doughnuts from District Doughnut (that's how carb-loading works, right? ) since I was out there anyway.

As I obsessively prudently checked the weather leading up to the race, the temperatures were looking good - high 50s/low 60s - and chances of cloud cover were increasing, which was exciting. The course is the same as it was last year, so I knew what to expect in that regard: mostly flat, with a few little hills and one hairpin turn around mile 8. As I said last week, I was pretty sure I could beat my PR from the same race last year (1:53:51), and thought I could plausibly be under 1:50. Expected range: 1:49-1:51. Maybe as fast as 1:47 if I had a really good day.

I decided to take my rest day on Friday, two days before the race, instead of my normal Thursday, to help give my body as much rest as possible during my abbreviated taper. I did a quick shakeout on Saturday and felt pretty good, and I set my alarm for 4 a.m. on Sunday

Alarm went off, got up, walked the dog, had some PB toast and coffee, got ready to go, and rolled out the door a little after 6 to bike over. When I was planning, this seemed like it would be enough time. It was not. Once I parked the bike and made it over to the start (which is very far from everything), the lines for the bathrooms AND the gear check were both super long, and the race started while I was still waiting for a port-a-potty

But I got in and out shortly after that, and got to the start line while they were letting off the second wave. I ended up behind the 2:30 pace group, which wasn't ideal, but at this point I'm just used to it.

The race
So I started off in the wrong spot, as usual, but at least that means I get to spend the whole race passing people. I managed to stay calm and go around people whenever I had a reasonable amount of space, and all in all my first mile wasn't too bad. I planned to start out around 8:25-8:30 pace and ended up right at 8:25, so go me.

After that I kind of ran by feel. I did try to stay slower than my training pace had been (8:11 = 1:47:08 HM), but I was feeling pretty good right around there, so even though I thought that was a bit faster than I could probably do for a B race, I went with it.

• Mile 2: 8:12
• Mile 3: 8:11
• Mile 4: 8:14
• Mile 5: 8:11

Mile 6 was a bit faster at 8:02 (although probably actually a bit slower than this since my watch auto-paused for a few seconds when I stopped to refill my handheld). Then I think I was nervous about being faster and mile 7 was back to 8:12.

So now we are more than halfway through, and I think to myself, "Hmm. I still feel pretty good," and my legs wanted to go a little faster, and so they did.

• Mile 8: 7:58
• Mile 9: 7:50

After mile 9, I was still feeling pretty good, and a little part of me started bouncing up and down because I knew at that point that I was going to get a massive PR. Like, at the beginning of mile 10 I looked down at my watch and I was running at my 5K PR pace IN THE LAST 5K OF A HALF MARATHON and my brain went, "Can we seriously keep doing this for 3 more miles?" and my body said, "I mean, I guess so? Seems okay so far" and that turned out to be a little overly optimistic but actually not that overly optimistic. My mantra at that point was basically just, "holy $h1t, holy $h1t, holy $h1t" and at mile 12 I hurt so much but I only had a mile and change to go so I kept running with every ounce of speed left in my body.

• Mile 10: 7:52
• Mile 11: 7:45
• Mile 12: 7:48
• Mile 13: 7:43
• Mile 13.1(6): 7:47

And then I was so very happy to be able to stop. And the verdict is...

ID: Official race time and splits


ID: Screenshot of Genie with jaw dropped (because the DIS did not let me add the GIF)

I ran a 1:45. Y'all, that is half of a solid BQ. Which, granted, is still a long way from an actual BQ, but it's a lot closer than I've ever been. And I beat April's 10M PR in the slower part of my race. And this isn't even the race I'm training for. I do not know what to do with this much success. Other than update my training paces and POT

My only regret is that I didn't see @striker1064 (although given how I felt at the end there, I don't think I would have seen my mother, so that's not a surprise). But seriously, I've been happy with my spring PRs, but I also felt like none of them were a great reflection of my actual fitness due to crowding and travel. This, though, this is amazing. I guess I should keep doing this race, because I keep surprising myself with huge PRs in it


ID: Strava pace analysis chart showing a lovely negative split

Anyway, now I am tired and my legs hurt and my head hurts but I am very happy. I think I will have a snack and take a nap.

 

[striker1064]

I actually saw you! I was doing my run on Rock Creek trail and I saw you at the turnaround. Girl, you were flying and I knew I wouldn't make it to the finish line before you finished.

Congrats on a spectacular race!!

 

[GollyGadget]

Wooo! Congrats!! All those summer miles are paying off

 

[garneska]

Great job!

 

[Naomeri]

Amazing!!

(this would be better as the GIF it’s supposed to be)

 

[Scootin'By]

That's awesome. Congrats!!

It was definitely great weather for it today, minus the sprinkles.

 

[RuntheMouse]

Way to go!! That’s an incredible PR!

 

[nancipants]

yeeaaaah, way to go!

 

[flav]

Bravo

 

[azrivest]

Congrats on yet another PR! You are on !

 

[WillRunForPizza]

September 11 - 17, 2023
Marathon training week 7 | 69 days until Space Coast Marathon
In which I am satisfied, and then uncertain

Scheduled

ID: Last week's schedule

Actual
Monday
Easy: 4 miles, 43:14 (10:44), max HR 154, avg. 139, 100% Z1-2

Woo, another super easy Monday run! Even though I was pretty tired Sunday afternoon, I actually felt pretty okay other than a couple of minor aches (R ankle and/or knee). I could easily have done the 5 miles I had originally planned, but I was home and I decided it was better to take it easy for race week.

I do feel like I'm having a hard time figuring out nutrition these days, though. I woke up this morning just starving, despite eating a good amount of food the day before. I think because of the structure of my last marathon plan, I didn't get to the always-starving point of training until much later, so either I'm there sooner than I expected or I've got some other problem. Nutrition is so complicated

Pliates

I did this one a couple of weeks ago, but this time I added a resistance band for some of the exercises, which definitely increased the difficulty level.

Tuesday
LT intervals: 2 mile WU + 4 x 4 min @ LTP (7:53)/1.5 min RI + 3 min @ HMP (8:11) + 2 mile CD
6.91 miles, 1:10:26, max HR 188, avg. 159
Interval split paces/GAP: 8:13/7:50, 8:07/7:46, 7:49/7:40, 7:50/7:39, 7:55/8:07


ID: Workout analysis chart from Strava

I felt like I had a surprisingly hard time with this workout, but it took me a while to figure out why: pacing, of course. I was having trouble finding my threshold pace (surprise), and I kept needing to slow down or speed up just a bit, which is somehow more challenging than slowing/speeding up a lot. Also I got a side stitch in rep #2.

I didn't originally have a HMP interval in there, but I added it because I wanted to remind my body what HM pace feels like, and I figured 3 minutes was short enough that it would have a negligible impact on my overall fatigue. However, the interval started out going down a steep hill, so that messed up my interval pace and I didn't have a good sense of whether I was actually running at the correct pace at all. So that didn't really work out the way I planned.

lower body strength
mini upper body strength

I did use weights for these, but a lot less than normal because it was race week.

Wednesday
Easy: 6.25 miles, 1:04:39 (10:20), max HR 164, avg. 151, 100% Z1-2

I felt pretty good - the weather was starting to get a bit better.

core

Thursday
Easy: 5 miles, 50:24 (10:03), max HR 177, avg. 151, 99% Z1-2

Normally Thursday is my rest day, but I thought I'd switch it to Friday this week so I would be fresh for the half on Sunday. (I thought about actually resting on Saturday, but I feel like my runs after rest days are a bit bumpy early on sometimes and I didn't want to risk it.) I probably ran this a little harder than I should have...but it was nice out

Also I was scheduled to do a short bodyweight strength workout, but I didn't feel like it so I just did a longer warmup with extra strength exercises.

Friday
off

I biked to and from Georgetown (ugh) at lunchtime for packet pickup.

Saturday
Easy + strides: 3.2 miles, 31:26 (9:49), max HR 173, avg. 151, 94% Z1-2

I waited until mid-morning so that my body would have a pleasant surprise with cooler weather on Sunday. (This was probably nonsensical logic, but also I wanted to finish my coffee, so ) I was perhaps a bit fast, but it's so much nicer to run in 120 T+D than 145 that it's hard not to be.

Sunday
Race: 13.16 miles, 1:45:42 (8:02), max HR 192, avg. 176
Cooldown: 0.7 miles, 8:06 (11:19), max HR 164, avg. 158

I already did my squeeing above, so no need to repeat I meant to do a short warmup also, but of course I didn't have time. And I biked to and from the race but didn't record it.


ID: Pink, yellow, and black DC Half 2023 medal with yellow ribbon lying on a black table

Totals
Running distance: 39.29 miles
Running time: 6h 13m
Strength/mobility: 1h 3m
Biking: 18m (+ travel to/from race)
Total time: 7h 35m


ID: Strava weekly training log

Coming up

ID: This week's schedule

This is all going to kind of depend on how I'm feeling after the race. This morning I can definitely still tell that I worked hard yesterday, but I felt better after walking the dog and eating breakfast. I am currently debating whether a short run this afternoon will help or hinder my recovery.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Way to go! Incredible performance! That's a solid progressional paced race!

 

[NYC_MW]

Amazing! Mega congrats!!!

 

[avondale]

Huge congratulations! What a terrific PR!

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Race recap addendum/marathon training puzzle
In which I am kind of bad at fueling

I did neglect to mention one element of my race on Sunday: fueling. I was bad at it

I had been trying different options for fueling this summer to see if I could move away from gels, which apparently redirect blood flow to your stomach rather than your muscles more than other types of fuel (or something; reminder that my brain glazes over when I start to read about nutrition so you should probably fact-check anything I say about it).

I had a Lara bar on my most recent long run before the race and liked that, but it was one time and only an easy run so I didn't want to try it for the race. Instead I brought a couple of gels that I still had and a package of Honey Stinger gummies, which had been okay on a few previous runs. I thought about taking Skratch, but then I'd need to carry that AND plain water if I wanted to have anything else and I was already slightly grumpy about racing with my handheld. So I scratched the Skratch. (I'm hilarious!)

I had one gel when I was in the corral moving slowly towards the start line. That was fine. Then around mile 4, I opened the package of gummies, figuring I'd have one every few minutes and that would be good. Only...I kept forgetting that I was supposed to be eating them. I think I finally finished them around mile 10-11? And I almost choked on the last one, which would have been awkward.

So maybe I am better off with gels? I did get a sample pack of UCAN Edge gels, which don't require water according to the package. I'm a little confused as to how they work, though, because they're supposed to last up to 75 minutes but they only have ~70 calories. They also don't have that much sodium, so I might need something else in addition - I feel like my occasional headaches from running are at least partly due to lack of salt. On the other hand, Keira D'Amato and Emily Sisson use them, which is a pretty solid recommendation. I'll try one this weekend and see how it goes.

Anyway, while fueling is not a huge factor if it's only going to take me an hour and 45 minutes to finish a HM, it will be important to get right for the marathon, and now I'm not sure what to do.

• Gummies seem out unless I come up with a way to remind myself to keep eating them and also to not choke. Presumably Lara bars (and other actual foods) would present the same problem.
• Just stick with gels? GU? UCAN? Maurten? What about sodium?
• Can I do just Skratch, without anything else, and avoid having to have both a drink mix and plain water? Then I have to somehow dump powder into my handheld on the run, though, and I don't know if I'm coordinated enough for that...

If you have solved lo these many problems, let me know!


ID: Hei Hei eating a rock while Pua looks on, concerned. I am Hei Hei.

 

[DopeyBadger]

• Can I do just Skratch, without anything else, and avoid having to have both a drink mix and plain water? Then I have to somehow dump powder into my handheld on the run, though, and I don't know if I'm coordinated enough for that...

I tried this for a few HMs back in 2014-2015. I too was not coordinated enough for it.

• Gummies seem out unless I come up with a way to remind myself to keep eating them and also to not choke. Presumably Lara bars (and other actual foods) would present the same problem.

At least a Lara bar would presumably be consumed all in one go (unless you plan to nibble on it). I tried dried cherries and raisins way back in 2014-2015 as well. The sheer volume I had to carry was immense, and I was practically choking them down.

• Just stick with gels? GU? UCAN? Maurten? What about sodium?

For me, a combination of gels and concentrated Tailwind has been a good balance. I can put a decent amount of sodium/potassium in a very concentrated 5mL container. I don't have to carry any excess water beyond that, and yet between the Tailwind and E-Gel I get most all the electrolytes I need.

I had been trying different options for fueling this summer to see if I could move away from gels, which apparently redirect blood flow to your stomach rather than your muscles more than other types of fuel (or something; reminder that my brain glazes over when I start to read about nutrition so you should probably fact-check anything I say about it).

So if this is in reference to the same things I've read, it relates to the absorption of gels (and mainly the carbs in the gels). So when you drink a Gatorade or Powerade, the solution has been prepared in an isotonic manner. The amount of liquid and carbs is in balance. So one could say that the consumption of Gatorade is not going to steal liquid (or redirect blood blow) from other muscles.

Conversely, many (but not all) gels are not isotonic. They don't carry on board with them the necessary water to properly allow your stomach to absorb them. If you don't have enough water on board, then your body has to steal water from the muscles to absorb it. Apparently our body prioritizes digesting the materials in the stomach over whatever we're doing physically elsewhere in the muscles. However, if you have sufficient water in the stomach, then the body doesn't need to steal or divert things away from the muscles. So if you drink an appropriate amount of water matching your carb consumption, then you should be less likely to run into these issues. It's my belief than some people don't consume enough water relative to the number of carbs they consume. Drinking an isotonic liquid is easier, but it doesn't mean that it's advantageous physiologically over gels if you consume an appropriate amount of water for the gels. On a side note, if you were to drink a concentrated Tailwind, then it would much the same as a gel without water. The concentrated Tailwind isn't isotonic and requires additional water consumption to be properly absorbed.

My recollection is that I read this either in Matt Fitzgerald's dietary book or Steve Magness's running book some years ago. So some of the details may have been lost in translation since then.

So maybe I am better off with gels? I did get a sample pack of UCAN Edge gels, which don't require water according to the package. I'm a little confused as to how they work, though, because they're supposed to last up to 75 minutes but they only have ~70 calories. They also don't have that much sodium, so I might need something else in addition - I feel like my occasional headaches from running are at least partly due to lack of salt. On the other hand, Keira D'Amato and Emily Sisson use them, which is a pretty solid recommendation. I'll try one this weekend and see how it goes.

The claim from UCAN is that it is a slow release and doesn't spike insulin production. I've seen counter claims to their evidence some years ago if you want me to dig it up again. My question in regards to Sisson and D'Amato would be, are they also only using ~70 calories for 75 min? Because I know that Maurten makes suggestions of 60-90g carbs/hr in consumption, and then Kipchoge has been reported to be taking in 110g (and then recently I saw it was 150g). So I wonder if they're using the same product but on a different schedule than they state for us normals.

 

[flav]

If you have solved lo these many problems, let me know!

On my last three marathons, I started with Maurteen 360 in my bottles (already mixed), two packs of Clif Blocks, one or two Maurteen 100CAF, one Marteen 100Gel, one or two Gu gel. I take them on the order that feels right that day. Once empty, one bottle gets refilled with water so I can eat the other stuff in between stations. I also used the Xact fruit pastes and bananas given on course. I would like to go back to not carrying a belt but it is too useful.

 

[striker1064]

I use EGel, Maurten, and SiS Beta gels, in addition to Tailwind. The Maurten and SiS gels are isotonic, so they don't require water. EGels do require water, but they require the same amount as most other gels - 14.5oz - despite having more gel (37g carbs vs 25g carbs for others). If you want to try some, I'm happy to meet you somewhere and bring you one of each. I have a bunch.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

However, if you have sufficient water in the stomach, then the body doesn't need to steal or divert things away from the muscles. So if you drink an appropriate amount of water matching your carb consumption, then you should be less likely to run into these issues. It's my belief than some people don't consume enough water relative to the number of carbs they consume. Drinking an isotonic liquid is easier, but it doesn't mean that it's advantageous physiologically over gels if you consume an appropriate amount of water for the gels.

Interesting - I feel like the book I read (Roar) presented it much more as "gels are bad; eat real food", but maybe this is a better explanation for why some people have GI issues with gels. I have actually never had problems myself, but I was here reading the boards before I tried any and so learned that I was supposed to have plenty of water at the same time.

The claim from UCAN is that it is a slow release and doesn't spike insulin production. I've seen counter claims to their evidence some years ago if you want me to dig it up again. My question in regards to Sisson and D'Amato would be, are they also only using ~70 calories for 75 min? Because I know that Maurten makes suggestions of 60-90g carbs/hr in consumption, and then Kipchoge has been reported to be taking in 110g (and then recently I saw it was 150g). So I wonder if they're using the same product but on a different schedule than they state for us normals.

Yeah, I guess they could be supplementing with other things - I imagine at least for races they're doing more whatever's in their bottles (which could be a UCAN product or something else) than any gels. I'm pretty sure the hosts at Marathon Training Academy, who are much more on the regular-runner side of things, do use UCAN exclusively, but I don't know that they've shared their exact timing.

On my last three marathons, I started with Maurteen 360 in my bottles (already mixed), two packs of Clif Blocks, one or two Maurteen 100CAF, one Marteen 100Gel, one or two Gu gel. I take them on the order that feels right that day. Once empty, one bottle gets refilled with water so I can eat the other stuff in between stations. I also used the Xact fruit pastes and bananas given on course. I would like to go back to not carrying a belt but it is too useful.

I wish I could use a belt, but they bounce around too much for me. I will begrudgingly carry a handheld for longer races and refill at water stations.

I use EGel, Maurten, and SiS Beta gels, in addition to Tailwind. The Maurten and SiS gels are isotonic, so they don't require water. EGels do require water, but they require the same amount as most other gels - 14.5oz - despite having more gel (37g carbs vs 25g carbs for others). If you want to try some, I'm happy to meet you somewhere and bring you one of each. I have a bunch.

Thanks! I have tried a bunch of different gels, and so far I've like Maurten and GU best flavor-wise. I'm more trying to figure out overall strategy - like theoretically I could have gels and Skratch if I do the isotonic ones, but then I get back to the problem of having to refill the Skratch mid-race which seems hard