Wow now I see what people were talking about!

[CastAStone]

Been making some lowball albeit not out of bounds offers on certain contracts and I made an offer with a company I haven’t used before and got an admonishing email about how I’m wasting everyone’s time making ridiculous offers and what not. I thought this was only hyperbole when I read others experiences but I was really taken aback by the rudeness of the email. I mean…it’s your job to field offers and then get a nice commission for doing some legwork. What’s the deal? Does this person hate their job or something? Hate the people who buy the contracts and thereby pay their salary? Yeesh. A little professionalism too much to ask for? I’d rather just be ignored with no nasty email.

I got my contract for about 20% below asking. I would tell them that they’re wasting everyone’s time by setting the price that high.

 

[crisi]

Absolutely. Unprofessional and a good way to damage their networking.

I was thinking along the lines of why and how to take it. Whether they intended to burn you with their wrath or they just lost the plot for a minute, not taking it personally helps wither way. There’s many other green pastures with unicorns to be found.

I’d love a Poly $135 or less! There has been some action there this year. Back during the Covid dip one or two brokers wrote articles about what they thought was the best deal going - Poly at $140 or under (it was going in the $120 to $140 range). Solid reasoning. We still regret not jumping in then. We paid several rental trips and still long for Poly lol. Oh regrets.

Years ago I said something along the lines of "lowball offers are rude" - and was told "its just business." I still think really true lowball offers are rude, probably for the same reasons the broker specified - its almost always a waste of time for the broker and seller to deal with - but agree its just business, because sometimes it isn't a waste of time - the buyer makes an offer, the broker presents it, and the seller is motivated to sell at that price - or at a middle number that is still a great deal, broker gets commission, everyone is happy. From which there are two things I take away - rude is really in the eye of the beholder and whether on the giving or receiving end of rude, its just business. You decide if you want to deal with that individual again.

If you don't want to risk rude, offer the asking price or something close to it. Otherwise, you risk someone saying "you are wasting my time." Getting a great deal takes kissing a lot of frogs and getting told no a lot - unless you are lucky with the first kiss.

And while DVC resales are a volume business - not everyone in the business needs to maximize profit nor is it a full time job for everyone.

 

[crisi]

I got my contract for about 20% below asking. I would tell them that they’re wasting everyone’s time by setting the price that high.

Broker doesn't need to accept the contract if they feel its a waste of time to list it at the price the seller wants.

 

[Chili327]

I got my contract for about 20% below asking. I would tell them that they’re wasting everyone’s time by setting the price that high.

Bingo.

Years ago I said something along the lines of "lowball offers are rude" - and was told "its just business." I still think really true lowball offers are rude, probably for the same reasons the broker specified - its almost always a waste of time for the broker and seller to deal with - but agree its just business, because sometimes it isn't a waste of time - the buyer makes an offer, the broker presents it, and the seller is motivated to sell at that price - or at a middle number that is still a great deal, broker gets commission, everyone is happy. From which there are two things I take away - rude is really in the eye of the beholder and whether on the giving or receiving end of rude, its just business. You decide if you want to deal with that individual again.

If you don't want to risk rude, offer the asking price or something close to it. Otherwise, you risk someone saying "you are wasting my time." Getting a great deal takes kissing a lot of frogs and getting told no a lot - unless you are lucky with the first kiss.

And while DVC resales are a volume business - not everyone in the business needs to maximize profit nor is it a full time job for everyone.

Agreed, you never know if they will accept because they are THAT motivated, or if maybe they will counter somewhere between that is agreeable for both parties. But if you can't even make an offer, that seller shouldn't be expecting to sell any time soon, & that's ok too.

 

[DanCali]

@DanCali - interested in looking into your suggestion. what is the board sponsor’s website you are referencing.

Go to https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/listings/

Pick the resort/s you're interested in and uncheck the "Active Listings Only" box so you can also see "Offer Accepted" and "Pending". You can sort by the status of the listings, so those will all be together. Clicking on a specific listing will show you the "Date Listed".

 

[jjanne]

Go to https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/listings/

Pick the resort/s you're interested in and uncheck the "Active Listings Only" box so you can also see "Offer Accepted" and "Pending". You can sort by the status of the listings, so those will all be together. Clicking on a specific listing will show you the "Date Listed".

This is great @DanCali , thanks. The price per point when you click into the details is the original list price, correct? (not the offer price)

 

[Genie+]

I still think really true lowball offers are rude, probably for the same reasons the broker specified - its almost always a waste of time for the broker and seller to deal with - but agree its just business, because sometimes it isn't a waste of time - the buyer makes an offer, the broker presents it, and the seller is motivated to sell at that price - or at a middle number that is still a great deal, broker gets commission, everyone is happy.

It’s hard to pinpoint truly lowball offer. My litmus test went more along the lines of, “serious offers with full intent to buy now.” It’s rude to just keep flinging super low offers all over half-heartedly hoping one eventually hits a desperado. Also rude to present crazy high prices wasting buyers’ time trying to navigate realistic deals. Distortion comes from both directions.

Brokers can limit the hassle with an efficient system. Buyers can limit which agencies to search.

At one point common advice was that serious offers were within 10% of asking. 4 or 5 years ago I guess. Since then values have swung up and down a couple times. Today there’s a huge range in asking price for similar contracts. No surprise the range of offers has increased too.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

Unfortunately, all brokers have to decide how to deal with potential customers and when people walk away with a negative feeling, it certainly could (and probably does) impact that business.

As a reminder, if anyone wants to know who the broker is, the link can be posted without any other reference. If it shows up, great. If not, then no further info can be shared. My guess is it is https://*******.com/

Aren't brokers, representing the seller, required by law to present all offers?

I had one call with a broker last month & before I even finished a sentence, she said..."If you are thinking of offering anything lower than listed price, don't bother. Seller won't even consider it."

 

[Sandisw]

Aren't brokers, representing the seller, required by law to present all offers?

I had one call with a broker last month & before I even finished a sentence, she said..."If you are thinking of offering anything lower than listed price, don't bother. Seller won't even consider it."

They are transaction brokers so it’s a bit different. But, they do not have to present if the seller has given them info not to present a lower offer.

I have done that as a seller and I am sure other sellers have as well. When I was selling SSR last year and the instant offer was $118, my broker knew not to bother with anything at that price or lower.

 

[DanCali]

This is great @DanCali , thanks. The price per point when you click into the details is the original list price, correct? (not the offer price)

Yes, those are the asking prices. The point I was making in my earlier post is that if it listed less than 30 days ago and is already under contract, I can only speculate that the sellers got an offer at or close to the asking price.

As an example of that, I put in an offer on a newly listed Poly contract at about 10%-12% below the asking price (it was stripped of 2023 and most 2024 points). The seller declined and accepted another offer a few days later. I asked the broker I was dealing with what it actually sold for and it went for the asking price (low $150s). I personally thought the asking price was too high for what it was, but someone else paid that, and it didn't take too long either.

 

[jodifla]

Been making some lowball albeit not out of bounds offers on certain contracts and I made an offer with a company I haven’t used before and got an admonishing email about how I’m wasting everyone’s time making ridiculous offers and what not. I thought this was only hyperbole when I read others experiences but I was really taken aback by the rudeness of the email. I mean…it’s your job to field offers and then get a nice commission for doing some legwork. What’s the deal? Does this person hate their job or something? Hate the people who buy the contracts and thereby pay their salary? Yeesh. A little professionalism too much to ask for? I’d rather just be ignored with no nasty email.

No one owes you their points for cheap.

It is indeed insulting.

 

[Chili327]

No one owes you their points for cheap.

It is indeed insulting.

No one has to pay their price either… so here we are again at a stalemate, did they list them to sell or to see if they could make a profit?

 

[CastAStone]

I don’t understand how someone could be insulted by an offer.

You’re not selling a house you cared for and poured your heart and soul into.

You’re selling a contract that, other than UY and points on hand, is exactly like every other contract for sale.

There’s nothing special about having unit 55B or 7A. It’s literally a commodity - every contract for a resort represents the exact same product. Like rice. Or soybean oil.

Anyone not looking to get the lowest price they can is only hurting themselves.

 

[DanCali]

I don’t understand how someone could be insulted by an offer.

You’re not selling a house you cared for and poured your heart and soul into.

You’re selling a contract that, other than UY and points on hand, is exactly like every other contract for sale.

I don't view it as "insulted" like it'd be selling a house one is emotionally attached to.

More like insulted in terms of "how stupid or uninformed do you think I am to even consider that"? I've only been on the buying side with DVC but if I were a seller getting some of the offers in the rejected offers thread, I might feel like that too...

In fact, it seems to me that some of the best outcomes for sellers come from the "low but firm" listings. Those tend to be listed at more reasonable prices and often move fast.

 

[CastAStone]

In fact, it seems to me that some of the best outcomes for sellers come from the "low but firm" listings. Those tend to be listed at more reasonable prices and often move fast.

Yes I agree with this and I think it was a smart add by DVCRM to offer that.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Resale is a volume business--there's not a production base then profit, it's all percentages. These brokers typically get around 9% per contract. Probably half stays with the company and half goes to the individual broker. So it's far, far better for them to sell three 150 point contracts at $130 per point than one contract at $150 per point--far better. But some seem to be actively working against this model.

You have to understand that at least some brokers also buy and hold many large contracts, and they almost certainly fund it with debt/loans that have LTV covenants (just like a house where you usually can’t borrow more than 80%)…so they actually have an incredibly strong incentive not to mark down resale contracts for resort X if they own 1000 at X, because their loans could get called and whether or not they risk going bankrupt, their ability to offload their 1000 points at a profit decreases.

 

[Ruttangel]

I got one of these e-mails once and I replied with a vow to get a contract at exactly the price they were admonishing me at.
To be fair they did reply back a bit unbelieving but admired my confidence.
It only took 2 days

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Rudeness really serves no purpose, and simply ignoring you would have saved the broker time and effort for sure.

Having said that, I think when you start off by acknowledging that your offer is "lowball" ("not out of bounds" is even more subjective), then I think it really comes down to just how low the offer was. I'm not saying this is the case here, but there are plenty of posts on the Rejected Offers thread that reek more of people just playing games and trying to get a rise out of someone, rather than a legitimate effort to get the best deal possible. 10%, 20%, even 25% off the listed price seems like good negotiating. Throwing out an offer that's 40%+ below the list is just wasting everyone's time. Making 5 or 6 or 10 similar offers? Well...

Not every lowball offer can be justified with "well, you never know until you ask"? Sure you do. Again, not saying that is the case here, but I'm seeing more and more of these crazy "lowball" offer posts in that thread since ROFR ended, and I can imagine there are more than a few brokers who have heard more than their fair share of ridiculously low offers that were never going to go anywhere.

Still zero reason to be rude. Just ignore and delete, or send a simple boilerplate response and be done with it.

Eh, I disagree completely. There is no downside to a lowball offer from either side. A simple “no thank you” will suffice. On the other hand, lots of offers that 9 months ago would have been considered ludicrously lowball have been accepted and passed, so there is no reason not to make one.

 

[CarolMN]

@DanCali - interested in looking into your suggestion. what is the board sponsor’s website you are referencing.

Not @DanCali, but the site you want is

https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/

 

[Matty B13]

You have to understand that at least some brokers also buy and hold many large contracts, and they almost certainly fund it with debt/loans that have LTV covenants (just like a house where you usually can’t borrow more than 80%)…so they actually have an incredibly strong incentive not to mark down resale contracts for resort X if they own 1000 at X, because their loans could get called and whether or not they risk going bankrupt, their ability to offload their 1000 points at a profit decreases.

This. We bought in 2016 and this was when the resale market started to go crazy with a few brokers taking over the market. Luckily we were able to buy most of our points before the prices got ridiculous.